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>> HELLO AND WELCOME TO BEHIND THE WOMAN.

I'M YOUR HOST Dr. JUHANNA ROGERS.

ON THIS EPISODE OF "BEHIND THE WOMAN," I WILL BE GROOING YOU TO JULIE SNYDER, THE C.E.O.

OF FOREST LAWN CEMETERY IN BUFFALO.

JULIE IS LEADING IN A MALE DOMINATED INDUSTRY AND SHE IS SHOWING US THE IMPORTANCE OF BRINGING DIVERSE VOICES TO THE TABLE, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO HONORING THE LEGACY OF OTHERS.

SO GET THE POPCORN GOING, GATHER YOUR FAMILIES ON THE COUCH BECAUSE THEY WILL NOT WANT TO MISS THIS EPISODE OF "BEHIND THE WOMAN."

WELCOME, JULIE SNYDER.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> WELL THANK YOU, Dr. ROGERS.

I'M HAPPY TO BE HERE.

>> I'M SO GLAD THAT YOU ARE HERE WHEN WE TALKED IN PREPARATION FOR THE SHOW, I LEFT THE CONVERSATION THINKING LIKE, WOW!

SHE'S DOING REALLY, REALLY IMPORTANT WORK IN AN INDUSTRY THAT, UNFORTUNATELY, I WOULD LIKE TO TRY TO AVOID TO THINK ABOUT, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

>> AND SO I'M EAGER TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU AND I'M GOING TO START WITH WHAT DOES A DAY AS C.E.O.

OF FOREST LAWN CEMETERY LOOK LIKE?

>> WELL, AS A LOT OF C.E.O.S PROBABLY WILL TELL YOU, NO TWO DAYS ARE ALIKE, AND OFTEN VERY UNPREDICTABLE.

BUT CEMETERIES, ESPECIALLY MONDAY THROUGH FRIDAY IN THE MORNING, ARE VERY BUSY PLACES.

USUALLY I ARRIVE AROUND 7:30 AND THERE ARE ALREADY PEOPLE WALKING, JOGGING, SOME BIKE RIDING THROUGH OUR CEMETERY.

YOU MAY SEE FAMILY MEMBERS THAT STOP AT THE CEMETERY ON THEIR WAY TO WORK OR BEFORE THEY BEGIN THEIR DAY.

AND IT'S A STARK REMINDER, VIRTUALLY EVERY DAY OF THE IMPORTANCE OF THE WORK THAT WE DO.

AND DEPENDING WHAT THE SCHEDULE LOOKS LIKE, SOMETIMES I WILL GO OUT AND JOIN A FUNERAL PROCESSION IF I KNOW THE FAMILY.

OTHER TIMES I AM MEETING WITH MY LEADERSHIP TEAM.

I'M MAKING MORE AND MORE TIME TO ROUND TO ALL MY DIFFERENT FUNCTIONAL AREAS TO MAKE SURE THAT I HAVE THAT INTERACTION ONE ON ONE.

AND THEN JUST TROUBLE SHOOTING, TRYING TO SPEND TIME INTERNALLY AND THEN EXTERNALLY IN THE COMMUNITY.

IT'S A BALANCE.

>> RIGHT.

HOW DID YOU COME INTO THIS LINE OF WORK?

>> WELL, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

BECAUSE EVIDENTLY I AM NOW A CEMETARIAN.

LESS THAN A YEAR INTO THE ROLE AND I ACTUALLY WAS RECRUITED BY A HEAD HUNTER.

SO IT WAS NOT NECESSARILY-- I DID NOT GO TO MORTUARY SCHOOL.

I DIDN'T COME UP THROUGH THE FUNERAL INDUSTRY.

THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THIS LINE OF WORK THAT THEY WOULD REFER TO IT AS THE DEATH CARE INDUSTRY, REALLY FROM FUNERALS, CREAMATORY, CEMETERIES, MEMORIAL STONES AND MAUSOLEUMS, A WHOLE SCOPE OF WORK.

I ACTUALLY CAME UP IN PUBLIC RELATIONS, COMMUNICATIONS.

I HAVE BEEN IN WESTERN NEW YORK FOR 35 YEARS.

MY FIRST JOB HERE WAS WITH THE BUFFALO NIAGARA PARTNERSHIP, WHICH IS THE REGIONAL ECONOMIC CHAMBER OF COMMERCE.

>> DEVELOPMENT, YES.

AND FROM THERE WENT TO SISTERS HOSPITAL FOUNDATION.

AND SISTERS HOSPITAL, LIKE FOREST LAWN, HAS BEEN IN THIS COMMUNITY FOR 175 YEARS.

IT WAS A WOMAN-LED, WOMAN-FOUNDED HOSPITAL.

BUFFALO'S FIRST HOSPITAL.

AND I RAN THEIR FOUNDATION FOR ABOUT 11 YEARS.

>> OH WOW.

>> FROM THERE I WAS ACTUALLY RECRUITED, AS THEY WOULD SAY, TO THE OTHER SIDE, THE INSURANCE SIDE OF HEALTHCARE AND I SPENT 11 YEARS AT BLUECROSS/BLUESHIELD OF WESTERN NEW YORK, SO A LOT OF YEARS IN COMMUNICATING AND HEALTHCARE.

>> RIGHT.

WHEN I THINK OF YOU KNOW AS A CEMETARIAN.

HOW DID YOU GET THERE.

BUT WHEN YOU DESCRIBE YOUR BACKGROUND, IT SEEMS LIKE YOU SPENT A LOT OF TIME THINKING ABOUT CARE OF PEOPLE AND THEN THINKING ABOUT HOW TO TALK ABOUT THE CARE.

>> YOU ARE EXACTLY RIGHT.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT THE COMMON THREAD THROUGHOUT MY CAREER HAS BEEN SERVICE, IN SERVICE INDUSTRIES ONE WAY OR THE OTHER, WHETHER WE WERE SERVING PRIVATE SECTOR BUSINESSES, WHO WERE OUR CHAMBER MEMBERS, WHETHER WE WERE SERVING PATIENTS AND DONORS AT A REALLY AMAZING HOSPITAL WHERE, BY THE WAY, LIFE AND DEATH EVERY DAY.

>> HAPPENS.

>> YEAH AND THEN EVEN IN HEALTH INSURANCE.

IT WAS STILL VERY MUCH SERVING OUR MEMBERS AND BUSINESSES AND I HAD A LOT TO DO WITH OUR PHILANTHROPIC GIVING.

SO THERE IS SORT OF THAT SERVICE THROUGHOUT.

>> AS YOU THINK ABOUT THE CARE OF PEOPLE, RIGHT?

WE DO IT IN DIFFERENT FORMS.

>> YES, AND WHATEVER INDUSTRY NORMALLY YOU ARE LEADING IN BUT NOW HERE YOU ARE AT FOREST LAWN CEMETERY AND THE WAY YOU DESCRIBED IT WAS ACTUALLY KIND OF BEAUTIFUL.

NOW I WANT TO GO BECAUSE YOU SAID YOU START YOUR DAY AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THERE JOGGING, WALKING.

>> YES.

>> AND OFTEN TIMES WHEN WE THINK ABOUT CEMETERIES, WE THINK OF IT AS A FINAL PLACE, NOT A PLACE TO BEGIN.

BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOUR SPACE IS MORE THAN THAT IN THIS COMMUNITY.

>> IT'S-- I HAVE SAID FREQUENTLY IT'S A MUSEUM WITHIN A PARK.

AND CEMETERIES ARE REALLY THERE FOR EVERYONE WHO IS STILL HAS THE GIFT TO BE ON THIS EARTH.

CEMETERIES ARE ABOUT REMEMBRANCE AND HONORING, REFLECTION, AND I WOULD SAY THAT I KNOW PEOPLE GENERALLY-- GENERALLY, WE DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT DEATH AND DYING.

MOST PEOPLE DON'T WANT TO THINK ABOUT THEIR OWN DEATH.

>> RIGHT.

>> BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT WOMEN FREQUENTLY ARE THE ONES THAT END UP MAKING THESE ARRANGEMENTS OR HAVING TO THINK ABOUT FINAL WISHES.

AND I HAVE FOUND IT VERY ENCOURAGING SINCE I'VE ARRIVED AT FOREST LAWN, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS AND SORT OF DON'T KNOW WHERE TO BEGIN OR WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO PLAN OR TO BUY A CEMETERY LOT OR A MAUSOLEUM, PRE-NEED VERSUS AT NEED.

AND THOSE WERE TERMS THAT, QUITE FRANKLY, A YEAR AGO I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THOSE TERMS WERE.

>> YOU DID THAT SO ELOQUENTLY.

JULIE, YOU ARE ONLY A YEAR IN.

>> PRE-NEED AND AT-NEED.

>> IT'S GREAT TO SIT DOWN WITH YOU BECAUSE EVEN AS YOU ARE DESCRIBING IT, I'M THINKING ABOUT MY LOVED ONES AND AND HOW DO I GET COMFORTABLE THINKING ABOUT WHAT COMES NEXT AND HOW DO I THINK ABOUT SERVICE?

HOW DO I THINK ABOUT THE CARE OF OTHERS AND WHAT I DO?

WE ARE GOING TO TAKE A MOMENT AND LOOK AT WHAT ELSE JULIE SNYDER IS DOING IN OUR COMMUNITY >> TODAY IS RALLY FOR 716 SQUASH.

AND IT'S A DAY OF SQUASH MATCHES IT'S A DAY OF REALLY FELLOWSHIP FOR OUR STUDENTS BRINGING THEIR FAMILIES TO COME AND SEE THEM PLAY SQUASH.

OUR GUN CONTROL-- OUR GOAL WAS TO WRAIZ $200,000 AND AS OF RIGHT NOW, WE ARE CLOSE TO $205,000.

THAT WAS AN AMBITIOUS GOAL TO SET.

ALL OF THOSE DOLLARS ARE USED TO FUND THE PROGRAM HERE.

SO 716 SQUASH IS REALLY A YEAR ROUND PROGRAM FOR YOUTH.

AND IT WAS STARTED ABOUT FIVE YEARS AGO IN BUFFALO.

AND REALLY, AS PART OF THE SQUASH EDUCATION ALLIANCE, A NATIONAL ORGANIZATION.

THESE INDIVIDUALS THAT REALLY STARTED 716 WOULD GO TO OTHER CITIES AND SEE URBAN SQUASH PROGRAMS IN PLACE AND JUST GREAT DIVERSITY OF STUDENTS AND TRULY, YOU KNOW, A 12-MINUTE MATCH IN A GLASS CUBE IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE MOST INTENSE WORKOUTS FOR OUR KIDS FOR THE STUDENT ATHLETES.

BUT MORE THAN THAT BE-- MORE THAN THAT WAS THE EDUCATION, THE MENTORING, THE COUNSELING AND THE FULL WRAP OF SERVICES OFFERED TO THESE KIDS WHO NOT ONLY EXPERIENCED SQUASH IN BUFFALO BUT IN OTHER CITIES, SUMMER CAMPS.

AND ARE REALLY NOW REALIZING, AS WE GET TO THESE MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS THAT HAVE NOW GONE TO HIGH SCHOOL AND SOME ARE GOING ON TO COLLEGE, YOU SEE THEM GETTING SCHOLARSHIPS AT SCHOOLS THAT HAVE SQUASH PROGRAMS, HIGH SCHOOLS AND ALSO HAVE A MUCH HIGHER INTEREST IN HIGHER ED.

IT'S VERY COMPETITIVE TO GET IN.

STUDENTS COMPLETE AN ESSAY.

THEY DO NOT HAVE TO BE ATHLETICALLY GIFTED.

THEY COME TO US FROM ANY VARIETY OF FAMILIES.

A WIDE VARIETY OF NATIONALITIES.

BUFFALO HAS A SIGNIFICANT BURMESE POPULATION.

THESE ARE NOT EVEN FIRST GENERATION AMERICANS, AND THEY ARE HERE AND VERY ACTIVE AND CONTRIBUTING.

WE REALLY HAVE SEEN TRANSFORMATIONAL RESULTS FOR OUR STUDENTS.

AND IT'S A COMBINATION OF HAVING THEM BECOME INVOLVED IN MAYBE SOMETHING THAT THEY DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT BEFORE THEY JOINED 716 SQUASH.

BUT IT'S ALSO THEIR INVOLVEMENT YEAR ROUND WITH A GROUP OF MENTORS, OTHER ATHLETES AND THE ABILITY TO TRAVEL IS, WE BELIEVE IS REALLY TRANSFORMATIONAL.

A LOT OF OUR STUDENTS HAVE NEVER BEEN OUT OF THE ZIP CODE.

AND I WILL TELL YOU, BY THE TIME THEY GET TO HIGH SCHOOL, THEY HAVE LEARNED AN AWFUL LOT ABOUT THEMSELVES AND HAVE REALIZED THEIR OWN GIFTS AND TALENTS ARE FAR MORE THAN PERHAPS HOW THEY VIEWED THEMSELVES.

WE ALL KNOW MIDDLE SCHOOL IS REALLY HARD.

AND TO SEE THESE KIDS COME IN AS FIFTH GRADERS AND REALLY, BY THE TIME THEY'RE IN HIGH SCHOOL, THEY'RE READY FOR HIGH SCHOOL.

SO I WOULD SAY IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO WRITE CHECKS.

IF YOUR VISION FOR YOUR COMMUNITY IS TO LEAVE IT BETTER THAN WHEN YOU ARRIVED IN YOUR COMMUNITY, REGARDLESS OF YOUR AGE, YOU HAVE TO DO MORE THAN JUST WRITE A CHECK AND SIT ON THE SIDELINES.

AND I GUESS I WOULD HOPE THAT FOR EACH OF THESE KIDS THAT HAVE COME THROUGH 716 SQUASH, WHAT THEY WILL DO GOING FORWARD IS NOT JUST BE AMAZING ATHLETES AND GREAT STUDENTS AND CONTRIBUTING FAMILY MEMBERS, BUT THAT THEY WOULD EVEN COME BACK TO BUFFALO AS COLLEGE STUDENTS PLAYING SQUASH, GET THEIR DEGREES AND HAVE THE CAPACITY AND ABILITY TO PAY IT FORWARD.

>> JULIE, THAT'S FANTASTIC.

I LOVE THIS THEME OF WORKING ACROSS THE SPECTRUM JUST KEEPS COMING TO MY MIND AS WE LOOK AT YOUR WORK WITH THE YOUTH IN THE COMMUNITY AND THINKING ABOUT THE CARE OF OTHERS EVEN ONCE THEY'VE PASSED ON.

AND YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT THAT BEING LEGACY WORK.

>> YES, AND REALLY THINKING ABOUT THAT LEGACY OF SERVICE.

SO AS A LEADER, YOU KNOW, I STILL SERVE ON COMMUNITY BOARDS, AS YOU JUST HIGHLIGHTED.

AND I THINK YOU DO HAVE TO PAY IT FORWARD AND BE AVAILABLE TO OTHERS SO THAT ESPECIALLY YOUNG WOMEN AND YOUNG MEN WHO ARE MAYBE NEW IN THEIR CAREER FIELDS OR JUST BEGINNING TO VOLUNTEER.

THEY UNDERSTAND THAT THAT IS SORT OF PART OF THE COMMITMENT THAT YOU MAKE AS SOMEONE CONTRIBUTING TO OUR COMMUNITIES.

IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO JUST HAVE A GREAT JOB, YOU KNOW.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO PAY IT FORWARD.

AND HONESTLY, THE CEMETERY IS A TESTAMENT TO, IN FOREST LAWN'S CASE, 170,000 LIVES LIVED.

>> AND SOME OF THOSE LIVES, AS I WAS LEARNING ABOUT YOU AND YOUR WORK, AND I'M LIKE, OKAY, THE CEMETERY.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS ON "BEHIND THE WOMAN."

WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE ANGLE HERE?

AND THE TEAM AND I SAT IN THE GREEN ROOM AND WE WERE LIKE, SHIRLEY CHISOLM IS IN YOUR CEMETERY.

>> YES, SHE IS.

>> AND SO MANY FOLKS ARE TALKING ABOUT HER AND HER DOCUMENTARY THAT'S OUT RECENTLY.

ALSO THE MOTHER OF ALPHA PHI FRATERNITY.

SOME OF THE FIRST BLACK ARCHITECTS TO BUILD THIS BEAUTIFUL CITY OF BUFFALO ARE LAYING TO REST IN YOUR CEMETERY.

AND SO WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, RIGHT?

I'M LIKE-- THIS SOUNDS WEIRD.

I KIND OF GOT EXCITED BECAUSE I'M LIKE WHERE WILL I BE LAID TO REST?

>> RIGHT.

AND WHAT WILL THAT LEGACY BE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE NOW ARE SAYING IT DOESN'T MATTER, CREMATE ME, THROW ME IN LAKE ERIE.

I DON'T MEAN TO BE FLIPPANT.

>> I DON'T THINK THEY CAN GO IN LAKE ERIE.

>> TECHNICALLY NO.

AND WHAT I REALLY WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW IS THAT IT'S IMPORTANT, EVEN WITH CREMATION, WHATEVER YOU CHOOSE OR WHATEVER YOU TELL YOUR FAMILY YOU WANT TO DO, THAT THEY KNOW WHAT YOUR WISHES ARE; THAT YOU MAKE THOSE ARRANGEMENTS.

AND REALLY YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE AND YOUR BURIAL RECORD ARE THE BOOK ENDS OF YOUR LIFE.

AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO THAT YOU THINK ABOUT DOING IT NOT FOR YOURSELF, BUT FOR YOUR CHILDREN'S CHILDREN.

AND WE HAVE 175 YEARS OF HISTORY AT FOREST LAWN.

THERE IS NO A.I.

THAT CAN REPLICATE THAT.

YOU WALK THROUGH THAT CEMETERY.

YOU LOOK AT THE STONES AND THE NAMES.

YOU CAN LOOK THEM UP ONLINE.

I MEAN THAT IS REALLY A GREAT WAY TO HONOR THE PAST.

>> WHAT IF WE NORMALIZE THIS CONVERSATION, RIGHT IN BECAUSE SOMETIMES I THINK THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT, BLACK, WHITE, WEALTHY, RICH, YOU DO LEGACY PLANNING OR FUNERAL PLANNING WHEN THE TIME COMES.

>> YES.

>> BUT I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS-- WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LEGACY BUILDING AND LIKE THE DEVELOPMENT OF YOUTH AROUND IT AND HOW WE BEGIN TO NORMALIZE THIS CONVERSATION, HOW CAN WE MAKE THAT CONVERSATION A LITTLE BIT EASIER?

>> WELL, I THINK THE ONE THING-- WE'VE ACTUALLY DONE IT WITH 716 SQUASH.

WE'VE BROUGHT THE KIDS ON WALKING TOURS OF THE CEMETERY.

WE ACTUALLY BRING THEM IN AND WALK THEM AROUND AND INITIALLY, ESPECIALLY TEENAGE KIDS ARE LIKE I DON'T WANT TO GO IN THE CEMETERY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, YOU START TO TELL THE STORIES OF THE LIVES.

YOU START TO POINT OUT THE DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURE IN THE MEMORIALS.

AND I THINK THAT THE MORE PEOPLE BECOME FAMILIAR AND COMFORTABLE IN A CEMETERY, IT BECOMES A LITTLE BIT LESS FILLED WITH FEAR AND TREPIDATION.

I MEAN TAXES AND DEATH, RIGHT?

THE TWO CERTAINTIES.

TAXES AND DEATH.

AND A CEMETERY IS A GREAT EQUALIZER.

FOREST LAWN, INCLUSIVE.

>> SO I HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH-- AT MY GRANDMOTHER'S HOUSE OVER THE HOLIDAYS ACTUALLY BECAUSE WE HAVE A FAMILY PLOT WHERE SHE LIVES, BUT IT REALLY GOT ME THINKING ABOUT LIKE WHAT HAPPENS, GOD FORBID, RIGHT OR HOPEFULLY A LONG TIME FROM NOW, LIKE WHAT DO WE WANT THAT TO LOOK LIKE?

>> WELL, I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD THINK ABOUT THIS.

THESE ARE GREAT CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE AND THEY'RE NOT GREAT CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE IN THE FINAL DAYS OF A LIFE WELL LIVED.

THESE ARE GOOD CONVERSATIONS TO HAVE WHEN FAMILIES ARE HEALTHY, WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE GENERATIONS.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO KICK OFF YOUR CHRISTMAS SEASON, BUT THERE ARE TIMES THAT YOU HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

FIND OUT, IS THERE A FAMILY LOT?

WE HAVE BURIAL RIGHTS THAT GO MULTIPLE GENERATIONS, FIND OUT, IS THERE A FAMILY LOT THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN PURCHASED THAT, WHETHER IT'S A GRANDMOTHER, A GRANDFATHER, A PARENT, THE CHILD WOULD HAVE RIGHTS TO THOSE OR TO THAT REAL ESTATE, SO TO SPEAK.

SO HAVE THE CONVERSATIONS.

MAKE SURE YOU THINK ABOUT HOW YOU WANT TO BE REMEMBERED.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU ARE GOING TO DIE TOMORROW.

IN FACT, IT'S GOING TO BE THE NEXT TIME YOU SIT DOWN AND UPDATE YOUR WILL, YOU HAVE THAT LINE.

WHAT IS YOUR FINAL DISPOSITION?

STATE IT.

DON'T LEAVE IT UP TO THE CHILDREN.

THAT IS THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO.

>> SO I'M GOING TO CALL MY SON, AND I'M GOING TO LET HIM FINISH THE SEMESTER.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO IT AROUND CHRISTMAS.

BUT I THINK GETTING INTOE EVEN YOU SITTING HERE AND ME HAVING THE CONVERSATION WITH YOU.

LIKE YOU ARE HELPING ME THINK THROUGH AND THOSE AT HOME WATCHING BEGIN TO START THINKING, HOW CAN WE EASE INTO THIS BECAUSE IT'S BOUND TO HAPPEN, RIGHT?

AND IN YOUR ROLE HAVE YOU BECOME-- I'M GETTING "BEHIND THE WOMAN" NOW, WAS THIS SOMETHING YOU HAD PLANNED BEFORE YOU TOOK THIS ROLE?

>> ALL RIGHT.

HERE'S THE TRUE CONFESSION.

>> TRUE CONFESSIONS.

>> MY FIRST DAY AND I WENT IN AND MET THIS INCREDIBLY DEDICATED TEAM AT FOREST LAWN.

THERE ARE ABOUT 50 EMPLOYEES.

AND AFTER THE INTRODUCTION, ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?

AND THE HEAD OF OUR FAMILY SERVICERS TEAM, SHE RAISED HER HAND AND SHE SAID DO YOU ALREADY HAVE YOUR SPACE?

I SAID NO.

I DO NOT.

BUT MY HUSBAND AND I HAVE HAD THE CONVERSATION, JUST THIS PAST YEAR AND WE HAVE BEEN MARRIED 30 SOME YEARS.

>> AND YOU NEVER TALKED ABOUT IT.

>> NEVER TALKED ABOUT IT.

AND SO TRUE CONFESSION, I'M RIGHT IN THERE AS WE ARE MAKING OUR PLANS.

WE HAVE DRIVEN AROUND THE CEMETERY A FEW TIMES.

>> YOU PICKED OUT A SPOT.

>> WELL, I'VE PREVIEWED A FEW SPOTS FOR THE MISTER.

WE'LL SEE.

HE IS AN ARCHITECT, HE MIGHT HAVE ANOTHER IDEA.

BUT WE DROVE AROUND AND SORT OF HAVE THE CONVERSATION.

>> IF FOLKS WANTED TO COME AND ENGAGE IN THE SPACE, TALK ABOUT WAYS THAT THEY-- YOU ARE HELPING THE COMMUNITY DO THAT.

>> FOREST LAWN IS 269 ACRES AND IT IS WALKABLE.

17 MILES OF ROADS.

YOU CAN COME ANY DAY BETWEEN 8:30 IN THE MORNING AND 7:00 AT NIGHT AND WE HAVE GUIDED TOURS.

YOU CAN GO ONLINE.

WE HAVE QR CODES YOU CAN STAN.

BEAUTIFUL INTERACTIVE MAP THAT'S ALSO AVAILABLE ONLINE.

SO I WOULD SAY THE FIRST THING YOU WOULD DO IS TO JUST PLAN A VISIT.

WE DO HAVE VERY FORMAL TOURS.

DOSENT TOURS, WALKING AND TROLL EZ.

YOU WOULD RESERVE THOSE SEATS IN ADVANCE ON OUR WEBSITE FOREST-LAWN.COMMOR YOU WOULD PROBABLY GET A GROUP OF FRIENDS AND WALK.

SO MANY GROUPS, ESPECIALLY OF WOMEN, WALK OUR CEMETERY.

>> I HAVEN'T BEEN TO THE CEMETERY TO VISIT MY GRANDMOTHER'S GRAVE IN A LONG TIME.

I'M SITTING HERE THINKING ABOUT HER.

I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP TO SPACES LIKE THIS AND EVERY OTHER COMMUNITY OUTSIDE OF BUFFALO AND HOW AS WE ARE GOING THROUGH TIMES, YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS TALKED ABOUT BURIALS, DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN THINGS SHIFTED, RIGHT.

YOU MENTIONED CREMATION.

SIT SITTING HERE WITH YOU TODAY HAVE HELPED ME, AT LEAST REALLY IMAGINE IF I LIKE DIDN'T JUST HOLD THE CONVERSATION THAT IS SOMETHING TABOO AND WE WON'T TALK ABOUT ACROSS THE TABLE BUT IF WE WERE MORE INTENTIONAL ABOUT IT, HOW THAT COULD EASE THE DISCOMFORT IN ONE'S SELF IN THINKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT'S THEIR TIME.

BUT ALSO LIKE YOU SAID, FOR THE CARE AND LEGACY THAT YOU WANT TO LEAVE FOR OTHERS.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY, REALLY BEAUTIFUL.

SO THANK YOU FOR THAT WORK AND YOUR COMMITMENT TO SERVICE.

FOR FOLKS AT HOME THAT ARE-- THAT HAVE NEVER HAD A THOUGHT ABOUT WORKING IN THIS INDUSTRY, WHAT IS SOME ADVICE YOU MIGHT GIVE IN EVEN EXPLORING IT.

>> I WOULD SAY IF YOU LOVE HISTORY, IF YOU LOVE ARCHITECTURE, IF YOU REALLY LOVE TO BE OF SERVICE TO PEOPLE, SOMETIMES AT A VERY DIFFICULT TIME.

IF YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO NAVIGATE, SOMETIMES DIFFICULT TIMES OR CONVERSATIONS, A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM HEALTHCARE DO END UP IN THIS FUNERAL AND CEMETERY BUSINESS.

I WOULD SAY IT'S A VERY REWARDING CAREER.

IT'S A CAREER OF SERVICE AND STEWARDSHIP.

SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE AND PARTNERS ON THE FUNERAL HOME SIDE, FUNERAL DIRECTORS, THERE ARE EDUCATIONAL COURSES YOU CAN GO THROUGH.

WE RUN A CREMATORY.

PEOPLE GET CERTIFIED TO DO THAT.

IT'S PRETTY SACRED WORK.

I THINK THE MORE YOU GET TO KNOW ABOUT THE WORK, THE MORE REWARDING YOU FIND THAT IT IS.

>> OH WOW.

YEAH I DIDN'T EVEN THINK-- YOU HAVE BEEN-- I HAVE BEEN TO SERVICES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, BUT I'M JUST LIKE IT'S A WHOLE-- WHEN IT SAYS INDUSTRY, IT TRULY IS.

THERE IS A TECHNICAL ASPECT OF IT, IT SEEMS, THE HUMAN SERVICE SIDE OF IT, RIGHT, DEALING WITH THE FAMILIES, BUT THERE IS ALSO A WHOLE SCIENCES GETTING INTO MORTUARY SCIENCE AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

WHEN YOU LEAVE WORK AT THE END OF YOUR DAY, WHAT IS SOMETHING YOU OFTEN THINK OR FEEL?

>> SO, AS I LEAVE WORK AND FOREST LAWN HAS THESE VERY ICONIC GATES, BLACK WROUGHT IRON GATES AT THE CORNER OF DELAWARE AND DEVALIN.

AS I PULL OUT AND DRIVE AWAY.

I DRIVE ALONGSIDE THE CEMETERY ON DELAWARE AVENUE.

AND I FEEL A SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY.

WE ARE THERE FOR THOSE LOT HOLDERS FOREVER AND EVER.

AND I FEEL A GREAT AMOUNT OF SATISFACTION.

I CAN'T IMAGINE A BETTER WAY, SORT OF MY FINAL CAREER JOB IS TO BE C.E.O.

OF THIS ICONIC CEMETERY, BUT ALSO AT ITS CORE, JUST ONE OF SERVICE TO OTHERS AND TO OUR COMMUNITY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, THANK YOU FOR HOLDING THE LEGACIES FOR THE SERVICE TO THE COMMUNITY, TO YOUR LEADERSHIP AND FOR SITTING DOWN WITH ME HERE ON "BEHIND THE WOMAN."

THIS IS FANTASTIC.

>> WELL THANK YOU, DOCTOR.

IT'S VERY NICE TO BE WITH YOU TODAY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU, JULIE FOR JOINING ME AND INSPIRING US TO WORK TOWARDS PRESERVING OUR LEGACIES SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE TO UPLIFT FUTURE GENERATIONS.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THIS EPISODE AGAIN OR WATCH PAST SEASONS OF THE SHOW, GO TO WCNY.ORG/BEHINDTHEMANY WOULD.

ON THE NEXT EPISODE JOIN ME AS I SIT DOWN WITH AUTHOR, HISTORIAN AND MUSEUM CURATOR GRETCHEN SOREN TO DISCUSS HOW SHE IS AMPLIFYING VOICES OF OTHERS.

MY NAME IS Dr. JUHANNA ROGERS AND ON BEHALF OF THE "BEHIND THE WOMAN" TEAM, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.