PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN GOES ON THE WORLD STAGE TO OUTLINE HIS VISION FOR DIPLOMACY, WHILE BACK HOME HE'S GETTING PILLORIED FOR THE CHAOS ON THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

THAT AND MORE NEXT ON IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME IN FOR THIS WEEK'S SHOW ARE: KRISTI ANDERSEN FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, CHAD SPARBER FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, AND TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN GAVE HIS FIRST BIG SPEECH BEFORE THE UNITED NATIONS THIS WEEK.

HE PLEDGED TO DOUBLE U.S. AID TO POOR COUNTRIES TO HELP THEM COPE WITH CLIMATE CHANGE.

HE BEGGED WEALTHY COUNTRIES TO DO MORE TO GET EVERYONE AROUND THE WORLD VACCINATED AGAINST COVID.

AND HE OUTLINED HIS VISION FOR WHAT HE CALLED "RELENTLESS DEMOCRACY."

TARA, HOW WAS THIS RECEIVED AROUND THE WORLD?

DID HE SET THE RIGHT TONE?

>> I THINK HE SET THE TONE THAT HE NEEDED TO.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, THIS WAS THE ANTI-TRUMP SPEECH TO THE U.N. BASICALLY LETTING THE WORLD KNOW THAT AMERICA WAS NOT FOLLOWING THE SAME POLICIES THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAD FOLLOWED AND THAT AMERICA WAS RETURNING BACK TO A MORE GLOBAL PARTNER FOOTING THAN IT HAD UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THE SECOND THING HE DID WAS HE TRIED TO REASSURE CERTAINLY OUR ALLIES OF OUR SUPPORT FOR NATO.

HE WAS TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, SORT OF NICELY SMOOTH OVER THE WATERS WITH FRANCE.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME ALSO SEND THE MESSAGE THAT JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE LEFT AFGHANISTAN DOESN'T MEAN AMERICA WON'T PROTECT ITSELF OR ITS INTERESTS AROUND THE WORLD.

WE JUST INTEND TO DO SO USING MORE TECHNOLOGY SO THAT HOPEFULLY WE CAN LIMIT THE LOSS OF LIFE.

SO I THINK IT WAS THE TONE THAT HE NEEDED TO SET AT THIS POINT IN TIME.

>> YOU THINK SO, TARA, THAT THIS WAS A LITTLE DAMAGED BY THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN HAPPENING RECENTLY.

THE BOTCHED ARGUABLY WITHDRAWAL FROM AFGHANISTAN AND THE THING WITH FRANCE?

>> I THINK IT WAS DAMAGED BY THAT.

I THINK HAD WE NOT HAD THE PICTURES FROM THE BORDER AND AMERICA, HAD WE NOT LEARNED ABOUT THE BOTCHED DEAL WITH FRANCE.

THE IMAGES FROM AFGHANISTAN AND THE DEATHS, HAD HE GIVEN THAT SPEECH WITHOUT THOSE THINGS, WOULD YOU HAVE HEARD THE CHEERING AROUND THE WORLD.

BUT THOSE EVENTS UNDERMINED WHAT HE WAS SAYING BECAUSE THE WORLD CONTINUES TO ASK THE QUESTION, CAN AMERICA REALLY LEAD IN THE WAY THAT IT USED TO?

DOES IT REALLY WANT TO LEAD IN THE WAY THAT IT USED TO?

>> THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE CALLED THE U.N.

SPEECH A TOTAL FLOP AND POINTED OUT THAT UNLIKE WITH OBAMA, BIDEN WAS NEVER ONCE INTERRUPTED WITH APPLAUSE.

I DON'T CARE ABOUT ANY OF THAT, NOR DO I HAVE MUCH INTEREST IN THE U.N.

SPEECH ITSELF.

I'M MORE INTERESTED IN THE ACTIONS.

YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE FRANCE BIT AND, I KNOW, WHAT THIS IS ABOUT IS THIS AGREEMENT, THIS DEAL BETWEEN AWE AUSTRALIA, THE U.K. AND THE U.S. TO SUPPLY EIGHT NUCLEAR SUBMARINES TO AUSTRALIA TO STRENGTHEN OUR PACIFIC AND ASIAN ALLIANCES PART OF THIS BUILDING UP TO THIS RELENTLESS DEMOCRACY THAT YOU REFER TO.

AND THEN OF COURSE FRABT IS UPSET BECAUSE WE BLIND SIDED THEM.

THEY HAD A $BILLION INTOON-- A $90 BILLION SUBMARINE CONTRACT AND FRANCE HAS WITHDRAWN ITS AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S. FOR THE FIRST TILE IN HISTORY AND THE AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRALIA, DISPROPORTIONATE RESPONSE, I THINK, BUT IT HAS LED TO THEM ACCUSING US OF LYING DUPLICITY AND MAJOR BREACH OF TRUST AND CONTEMPT.

I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK THAT BIDEN, IN TRYING TO BUILD UP OUR ASIA AND PACIFIC ALLIANCES, COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB, OF NOT ALIENATING OUR EUROPEAN ONES AND IT'S THE THING THAT HAS LED THE EUROPEAN MEDIA TO REFER TO AMERICA AS AN UNRELIABLE ALLY.

THAT'S A TWO-WORD PHRASE USED A LOT SINCE AFGHANISTAN AND I THINK IT'S WORRISOME.

>> IT SEEMS TO ME SURPRISING GIVEN THE SORTS OF-- THE PEOPLE THAT BIDEN HAS HIRED AND SURROUNDED HIMSELF WITH, PARTICULARLY THOSE PEOPLE WITH LOTS OF FOREIGN POLICY EXPERIENCE; THAT THEY WOULD NOT HAVE, AS YOU SUGGESTED, SORT OF REACHED OUT TO FRANCE AND TOLD THEM, SO THEY WEREN'T CAUGHT OFF GUARD BY THIS.

AND YEAH, YOU KNOW, THINGS ARE SHIFTING TOWARDS ASIA SO IT MAKES SENSE THAT AUSTRALIA GETS INVOLVED IN THIS, BUT YOU DON'T JUST SECRETLY KIND OF PURCHASE A-- DO THE NUCLEAR THING AND LEVER FRANCE IN THE LURCH.

FRANCE DID SEEM TO OVERREACT TO ME, A LITTLE BIT AND BE A LITTLE WHINEY.

AND I WOULD SAY THAT SPATS WITH FRANCE ARE NOT UNUSUAL.

I MEAN BACK TO THE FREEDOM FRIES AND THEY WERE UPSET WITH OBAMA ABOUT SYRIA, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A WHOLE LOT OF FRENCH-U.S.

MISUNDERSTANDINGS, I GUESS I WOULD SAY FOREIGN POLICY WISE.

>> TARA, ONE OF THE UNMENTIONED COUNTRIES WAS CHINA AND IT SEEMED TO ME THERE WERE SUBTLE INFERENCES ABOUT CHINA.

>> THERE WERE.

THAT WHOLE STATEMENT THAT WE WILL PROTECT OUR INTERESTS, THE WHOLE FOCUS ON CYBER SECURITY.

WITHOUT MENTIONING CHINA, THERE WAS A GREAT-- QUITE A BIT OF THE SPEECH WAS ABOUT PROTECTING OUR INTERESTS, PROTECTING OURSELVES AND OUR ALLIES FROM CYBER THREATS.

OUR FOCUS-- A GREATER FOCUS ON ENSURING NOT ONLY OUR CYBER SECURITY AND THE SECURITY AROUND THE WORLD.

THAT WAS PARTIALLY RUSSIA, OF COURSE, BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY AT CHINA, TOO.

THE OTHER THING THAT WAS VERY CLEAR WAS THAT THE UNITED STATES WANTED TO MAKE IT CLEAR THAT, IN ESSENCE, WE ARE YOUR ALLY AGAINST CHINA WITHOUT MENTIONING CHINA.

BECAUSE BIDEN KEPT REFERENCING WORKING WITH OUR ALLIES ON THESE ISSUES TO PROTECT ALL OF US FROM THESE THREATS.

>> I HOPE YOU DON'T FIND THIS TOO TANGENTIAL.

BUT DO YOU REMEMBER THE PPP TRANS-PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP FREE TRADE AGREEMENT IN 2016 UNTIL THE POPULOUS CAME IN AND TORPEDOED IT.

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AN ECONOMIC CENTER PIECE FOR OUR PIVOT TOWARDS ASIA AND ADVANCING OUR ECONOMIC AND DEMOCRATIC INTERESTS THERE.

AND REALLY TO COUNTERBALANCE CHINA'S RISING POWER.

WELL, THAT TRADE DEAL, IT STILL EXISTS, IT'S CALLED THE CTPTT AND THERE ARE ABOUT EIGHT COUNTRIES INCLUDING MEXICO, CANADA, JAPAN AND AUSTRALIA.

IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH OF THIS SUBMARINE AGREEMENT, CHINA APPLIED TO GET IN.

AND IT IS ONE OF THESE THINGS, I DON'T THINK CHINA IS GOING TO GET IN BY THE WAY.

THEY ARGUED IT IS INCIDENTAL TIMING, BUT IT HAS ME THINKING, YOU KNOW, IS THIS AN AREA THAT WE CAN RETURN TO?

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE FREE TRADE DEAL BACK ON THE TABLE AS A MECHANISM FOR US TO ADVANCE OUR ECONOMIC AND POLITICAL INTERESTS IN THE ASIA AND PACIFIC REGION.

AND SO I HOPE THAT WOULD BE INTERESTING.

>> AND BIDEN HAS TALKED ABOUT CHINA'S RELATIONSHIP WITH US AS KIND OF IN THIS DUALITY THAT YES, WE DILL HAVE TRADE RELATIONS WITH THEM EVEN THOUGH WE ARE WORRIED ABOUT X AND Y.

SO, YEAH I SUPPOSE IT'S POSSIBLE, HUH.

>> WELL BACK HOME, PRESIDENT BIDEN IS GETTING QUITE THE TONGUE-LASHING FOR THE SITUATION AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

YOU'VE SEEN THE MASSES OF PEOPLE HUDDLING AROUND A HIGHWAY BRIDGE IN TEXAS.

AND THIS WEEK AS MANY AS EIGHT-PLANES-A DAY WERE FERRYING HAITIAN MIGRANTS BACK TO THEIR HOME ISLAND, WHICH IS STRUGGLING WITH A NEW GOVERNMENT AND THE DEVASTATION FROM A HURRICANE.

CHAD, WHAT IS THE RIGHT POLICY ON IMMIGRATION?

>> SO BROADLY THE RIGHT ECONOMIC POLICY IS TO BECOME MORE OPEN TO IMMIGRATION.

I DON'T THINK THAT'S WHAT BIDEN REALLY WANTS.

THERE IS A DIRTY LITTLE SECRET THAT PEOPLE ON THE LEFT, A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE LEFT WANT TO PRETEND THAT ANTI-IMMIGRANT SENTIMENT IS THE RIGHT WING TRUMP SUPPORTERS XENOPHOBIC BUT THAT'S NOT QUITE RIGHT.

LET ME READ A QUOTE.

OUR BORDER IS VERY POROUS, THE LAST THUNK WE NEED TO IS BRING OVERMILLIONS OF PEOPLE INTO THIS COUNTRY WHO ARE PREPARED TO LOWER WAGES FOR AMERICAN WORKERS WHEN THE MIDDLE-CLASS IS SHRINKING.

THAT'S BERNIE SANDERS, A MAN WHO ONCE CALLED OPEN BORDERS A KOCH BROTHERS PROPOSAL.

THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, EARLY 2000.

HIS VIEWS MAY HAVE EVOLVED.

BUT IT IS NONETHELESS STILL REFLECTIVE OF THIS TYPE OF LEFT WING PROUNION SENTIMENT, POOR ECONOMIC ANALYSIS.

AND THAT'S PART OF THE BIDEN ALLIANCE, OKAY.

SO HE IS TRYING TO WALK THIS WEIRD TIGHT ROPE WHERE HE WANTS TO END SOME OF THE MORE DRACONIAN POLICIES OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THINGS LIKE CHILD SEPARATION AT THE BORDER.

BUT HE DOESN'T ACTUALLY WANT TO END THEIR EFFECT, WHICH IS TO DISCOURAGE ILLEGAL MIGRATION.

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

AND WE HAVE, OVER THE TRUMP YEARS, COME TO THINK OF ANTI-IMMIGRATION AS A RIGHT WING THING AND, BUT ONE OF THE REASONS WE HAVE NOT, AS A COUNTRY, BEEN ABLE TO DEVELOP GOOD IMMIGRATION POLICY, BY WHICH I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THINKING CAREFULLY ABOUT WHAT KIND OF PEOPLE WE WANT, HOW MANY OF THEM, WHAT DO WE NEED, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF JOBS TO BE FILLED AND SO ON.

DO YOU MOSTLY REUNITE FAMILIES OR HAVE A POINT SYSTEM LIKE CANADA.

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF THINGS.

WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT PRECISELY BECAUSE THERE ARE PRO-AND ANTI-IMMIGRANT FACTIONS IN BOTH THE DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PARTIES.

IF YOU LOOK AT OBAMA'S STATEMENTS AND GEORGE BUSH, THEY WERE ON THE SAME PAGE.

THEY WERE TRYING TO DO THE SAME THING AND REAGAN, YOU KNOW, DID THE BIG AMNESTY FOR UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS AND SO ON AND SO ON.

IT'S NOT A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN THING BUT IT IS STILL DIFFICULT.

IT IS EVEN PERHAPS MORE DIFFICULT BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT FOLKS ON VARIOUS SIDES IN BOTH OF THE PARTIES.

>> TARA THE NEWS THIS WEEK HAS BEEN ABOUT HAITIANS, AS MANY AS 10,000 HAITIANS WHO HAVE COME IN.

WHAT IS THE BACKSTORY THERE ON THE HAITIANS?

>> WELL, WE HAVE A LONG RELATIONSHIP WITH HAITI, LITERALLY FROM EVERYTHING I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND OUT, THE HAITIANS WERE THE FIRST GROUP OF IMMIGRANTS THAT HELPED AMERICA BECAUSE A LARGE BODY OF HAITIANS, 700, HELPED US FIGHT THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION.

SO IF YOU TAKE THAT ARGUMENT THAT, IN A SENSE, WE SHOULD HELP PEOPLE WHO HAVE HELPED US, THE ARGUMENT THAT HAS BEEN USED FOR AFGHANISTAN REFUGEES, THEN WE SHOULD BE HELPING THE HAITIANS.

AND WE WERE THE FIRST-- ONE OF THE FIRST COUNTRIES TO RECOGNIZE THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

WE DID SO FOR STRATEGIC PURPOSES.

WE DIDN'T WANT ANYONE ELSE HAVING INFLUENCE OVER THAT AREA.

BECAUSE OF THE SUGAR CANE ET CETERA.

AND SO WE HAVE HAD THIS LONG-TERM SCHIZOPHRENIC RELATIONSHIP WITH HAITI.

FOR A WHILE WE WANT THEM TO BE INDEPENDENT AND STAND ON THEIR OWN BUT THEY DON'T SEEM TO BE ABLE TO STAND ON THEIR OWN SO AMERICA, YOU KNOW, FREDERICK DOUGLASS WAS AN AMBASSADOR TO HAITI.

WE WILL THEN INTERVENE FOR A WHILE AND THEN THERE IS A SENTIMENT THAT WE NEED TO PULL OURSELVES OUT AGAIN AND LET THEM STAND ON THEIR OWN.

WE'VE HAD VERY HORRIFIC TRADE AGREEMENTS WITH THE HAITIANS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE WE WERE SELLING THEM FOOD WITH THE IDEA THAT, OKAY, WE'LL SELL THE FOOD TO THEM CHEAP.

THAT GIVES THEM MONEY SO THAT-- MORE MONEY SO THEY IN TURN CAN INDUSTRIALIZED.

THAT'S NOT WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

WHAT MONIES HAVE GONE TO HELP THE HAITIANS END UP FROM THE HANDS OF EITHER POLITICAL PEOPLE OR SORT OF, YOU KNOW, LOCAL LEADERS AND NOT IN THE HANDS OF AVERAGE HAITIAN SO IT HAS BEEN A REALLY SCHIZOPHRENIC RELATIONSHIP.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT WE DON'T OFTEN ACKNOWLEDGE WITH THE HAITIANS IS THERE IS STILL AN AMERICA, IT'S NOT ONE OF OUR PROUDEST MOMENTS, A CERTAIN BELIEF IN THE DESERVING IMMIGRANTS VERSUS THE NON-DESERVING IMMIGRANTS.

REAGAN PUT IT TO PAPER WHEN HE SAID THAT NO, WE WON'T GRANT HAITIANS ASYLUM SEEKER STATUS.

BUT YET WHAT THE HAITIANS HAVE EXPERIENCED IN MANY WAYS, IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT IMMIGRANTS FROM VIETNAM AND OTHER PLACES HAVE EXPERIENCED.

SO PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH HAITI IS THAT WE HAVE NEVER REALLY COME TO GRIPS WITH WHAT OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH THE HAITIANS SHOULD BE.

>> CHAD, ARE THESE REALLY REFUGEES?

>> I THINK THAT WAS THE ONE PART OF YOUR STATEMENT I WAS GOING TO PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT ON.

I DON'T THINK THEY ARE REFUGEES.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE U.N.

DEFINITION OF WHAT A REFUGEE IS.

A PERSON UNWILLING OR UNABLE TO RETURN TO HIS OR HER HOME COUNTRY AND CANNOT GET PROTECTION DUE TO PAST PERSECUTION OR WELL FOUNDED FEAR OF BEING PERSECUTED IN THE FUTURE ON THE FACE OF RACE, NATIONALITY OR POLITICAL OPINION SO IT'S A VERY SPECIFIC KIND OF DEFINITION.

AND WHAT I THINK IS HAPPENING HERE IS IT IS MORE ECONOMIC MIGRANTS.

PEOPLE LEFT HAITI IN 2010 FOR SOUTH AMERICA AND ARE MIGRATING THROUGH AT LEAST HALF A DOZEN COUNTRIES TO GET TO THE U.S.-MEXICO BORDER TO TRY TO GET A BETTER ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY IN THE UNITED STATES.

BUT EVEN SUPPOSING THAT THEY WERE ASYLUM SEEKERS, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENTS IN THE WORLD OPERATING ON A COUNTRY OF FIRST ENTRY RESETTLEMENT PLAN.

BASICALLY AN ARGUMENT THAT ONCE YOU'VE LEFT THE DANGER OF YOUR HOME COUNTRY, IT'S THE FIRST COUNTRY OF SAFE HAVEN THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO APPLY FOR ASYLUM STATUS.

AND AGAIN THAT'S NOT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN HERE.

IF YOU ARE WONDERING WHY ARE WE SENDING THEM BACK TO MEXICO, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, I THINK IT'S CONSISTENT WITH WHAT A LOT OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY DOES, WHICH IS TO SAY IF YOU WANT ASYLUM, YOU APPLY FOR IT IN THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU FOUND SAFETY.

>> QUICKLY KRISTI, SHOULD THEY BE SENT BACK TO HAITI?

>> PROBABLY OR SENT BACK SOMEWHERE.

I MEAN ONE OF THE SAD THINGS ABOUT THIS IS THAT APPARENTLY THE MAGNITUDE OF THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE WAS INCREASED BY ALL KINDS OF FALSE CLAIMS AND FALSE RUMORS ON SOCIAL MEDIA SAYING THE UNITED STATES IS OPEN, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN COME.

THEY'LL TAKE YOU IN.

AND SO NATURALLY ALL THESE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN FACING, YOU KNOW, DIFFICULT ECONOMIC SITUATIONS IN CHILE OR BRAZIL OR WHEREVER AND DETERIORATING POLITICAL SITUATIONS, CAME AND-- BUT CHAD IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

I THINK THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT ABLE TO BE CATEGORIZED AS EITHER REFUGEES, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT THING FROM ASYLUM SEEKERS REALLY, BUT EITHER ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS.

ONE HOPES THAT IF THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THE GROUPS WHO CAN, YOU KNOW, MAKE A CREDIBLE CASE FOR ASYLUM, THAT THEY WILL BE LISTENED TO.

AND THERE IS SOME STUFF THAT I'VE READ THAT THAT IS HAPPENING.

>> WE'LL HAVE TO SEE.

I'M SURE WE ARE NOT DONE TALKING ABOUT IMMIGRATION.

LET ME TURN US THOUGH TO OUR THIRD TOPIC.

THE BOOK "PERIL" CAME OUT THIS WEEK.

IT'S BY REPORTERS BOB WOODWARD AND BOB COSTA.

GIVING INSIDE STORIES ON THE TRANSITION FROM TRUMP TO BIDEN.

THE REPORTERS TELL HOW THE HEAD OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF -- GENERAL MARK MILLEY --- WAS SO CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP MIGHT DO MILITARILY-- IN HIS LAST DAYS IN OFFICE-- THAT HE CALLED HIS CHINESE COUNTERPART TO TALK-HIM-DOWN FROM ANY CONCERNS THAT THE U-S MIGHT ATTACK CHINA.

KRISTI , SOME SAY HE WAS RECKLESS AND OUT-OF-LINE, WAS HE?

>> IT'S HARD TO TELL.

I MEAN THE BOOK APPARENTLY-- AND I HAVE NOT READ IT-- I'VE JUST READ ABOUT IT-- DOES IMPLY THAT HE IS JUST KIND OF IN THE DARK OF NIGHT CALLING UP SOMEBODY WHO HE HAD KNOWN OR SOME CONTACT THAT HE HAD IN A DIPLOMATIC OR MILITARY CONTACT THAT HE HAD IN CHINA AND WARNING THEM AND REASSURING THEM THAT, NO, YOU KNOW, HE WOULD TAKE CARE OF THIS OR THE MILITARY WOULD TAKE CARE OF THIS.

WHAT I'VE ALSO READ THOUGH-- AND I THINK THAT FOX NEWS ACTUALLY HAS REPORTED THAT THESE WEREN'T SECRET CALLS.

THEY WERE CALLS ON WHICH THERE WERE 15 PEOPLE SAY, WHICH IS STANDARD.

I MEAN SO THERE WERE OTHER MILITARY FOLKS, THERE WERE DIPLOMATS ON BOTH SIDES PRESUMABLY.

IT WAS PROBABLY RECORDED OR NOTES WERE TAKEN BUT THAT DIDN'T COME OUT IN THE BOOK.

SO IF IT WAS THE FIRST, HE PROBABLY WAS OUT OF LINE.

IF IT'S THE SECOND, IT'S SOMETHING THAT THE MILITARY IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

WE HAVE CIVILIANS ALL OVER THE MILITARY.

HE TALKED TO NANCY PELOSI.

THAT WAS FINE.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT MILITARY LEADERS ARE SUPPOSED TO TALK TO THE CONGRESS ABOUT CONCERNS THEY MIGHT HAVE ABOUT ACTIONS OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OR THE PRESIDENT.

SO I THINK THE JURY IS STILL OUT.

WE DON'T KNOW YET WHAT HE REALLY HAS DONE.

I MOON MEAN MY FIRST REACTION TO ALL THIS IS THANK GOD HE WAS THERE WATCHING OUT FOR ALL OF US.

BRUT WE DON'T-- BUT WE DON'T KNOW YET.

>> THE OTHER THING I THINK YOU HAVE TO PUT THIS IN THE CONTEXT IS IS HIS OATH OF OFFICE.

HE BASICALLY TAKES AN OATH TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AND, YOU KNOW, MAYBE HE WENT OUT OF CHAIN OF COMMAND POTENTIALLY, BUT IF HE TRULY THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT WAS NECESSARY TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES AND PROTECT OUR SECURITY, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME ISSUES WITH IT, BUT HE WAS DOING HIS JOB.

NOW AGAIN, WE NEED TO FIND OUT IF THIS REALLY HAPPENED AS KRISTI POINTED OUT THE FIRST WAY OR THE SECOND WAY.

>> CHAD, IT COULD BE BOTHERSOME-- IT BOTHERS ME THAT A MILITARY PERSON COULD GO AROUND THE PRESIDENT'S BACK SO TO SPEAK.

>> YEAH IN THINKING ABOUT THIS QUESTION, IT CAME DOWN TO IS IT OKAY TO ACT UNCONSTITUTIONALLY IF IT IS TO PREVENT A PRESIDENT FROM ACTING UNCONSTITUTIONALLY?

AND I'M, LIKE A LOT OF MODERATES, WHO ARE GRATEFUL THAT WE HAD ADULTS IN THE ROOM WHO COULD TEMPER TRUMP'S MORE MEGALO MANIACAL IMPULSES, I CAUGHT WOODWARD ON COLBERT A FEW NIGHTS AGO AND HE SAID MILLEY WAS THE ONE COURAGEOUS PERSON THAT DID SOMETHING.

OKAY, I'M GRATEFUL BUT SO WHO ARE THE THINGS THAT HE DID?

SO ON THE CALL ITSELF, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT, THAT THE CALL ITSELF WAS FINE.

WHERE HE MAY HAVE CROSSED THE LINE IN THE CALL IS THE SECOND PART WHERE HE SAYS TO GENERAL LEE, YOU AND I HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER NOW FOR FIVE YEARS, IF WE ARE GOING TO ATTACK, I'M GOING TO CALL YOU AHEAD OF TIME.

IT'S NOT GOING TO BE A SURPRISE.

>> IS THAT EVER DONE?

MAYBE THE ISRAELIS GAVE WARNINGS TO THE PALESTINIANS THEY WERE GOING TO BOMB.

>> BUT AGAIN WITHOUT THE PRESIDENT'S AUTHORITY TO DO THIS?

IS HE SAYING THAT HE WILL ACT BEYOND THE PRESIDENT'S AUTHORITY TO SIDE STEP AN ENEMY COMBATANT, WATCH OUT!

IT'S COMING!

THAT'S BORDER LINE TREASON, AND THAT'S IF YOU TAKE WHAT HE SAID LITERALLY AND NOT FIGURATIVELY.

BUT I THINK THAT THAT'S WHAT IS LARGELY CAUSING LIKE SENATOR RUBIO AND THE MEDIA TO CALL FOR HIS DISMISSAL.

>> KRISTI.

I MEAN AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, WE ARE-- WE DO HAVE CIVILIAN CONTROL OF THE MILITARY, BUT THE MILITARY IS TASKED WITH AND TAKES AN OATH TO PROTECT THINGS AND TO STEP IN, I THINK, IF-- I THINK THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THOSE TWO MODES OF DOING IT THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, JUST HIM AT NIGHT CALLING THE GUY OVER THERE VERSUS A CALL WHERE OTHER PEOPLE WERE LISTENING AND IT WAS RECORDED AND THIS WAS-- HE WAS DOING IT OFFICIALLY, IS IMPORTANT.

>> WELL MILLEY WILL BE GOING BEFORE CONGRESS THIS NEXT WEEK AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE GRILLING OR THE SUPPORT THAT HE GETS.

AND SPEAKING OF SUPPORT, WHO DOESN'T GET YOUR SUPPORT THIS WEEK?

LET'S OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK KRISTI AND GET YOUR F PLEASE.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO MY NEW YORK STATE ASSEMBLYMAN JOHN SALKA WHO HAS GONE FALL ANTI-VACCS ANTIMASK CONSPIR SIS.

HE HAS URGED PARENTS NOT TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL WITH MASKS, PER PERPETUATING THE CLAIM THAT CHILDREN ARE IMMUNE TO COVID.

Mr. SALKA IS A RESPIRATORY THERAPIST WHO HAS WORKED IN HOSPITALS AND SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

>> CHAD, YOUR F. >> SO THIS WEEK THE HOUSE AGREED TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING, BUT IT WAS PASSED ALONG A TOTALLY PARTY LINE AND IT'S UNLIKELY THAT THE SENATE IS GOING TO DO THE SAME THING UNLESS DEMOCRATS USE A RECONCILIATION TO BYPASS FILIBUSTER WHICH IS POLITICAL MUMBO JUMBO I DON'T UNDERSTAND BUT I DO UNDERSTAND IS THAT AMERICA ALWAYS PAYS ITS DEBTS AND SO DOING, IT HAS ENSURED THAT INTEREST RATES REMAIN LOW NOT JUST FOR GOVERNMENT BORROWING BUT FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND ME WHO WANT TO TAKE OUT LOANS FOR BUYING HOUSES, CARS OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

TREASURY SECRETARY JANET YELL-IN HAS WARNED THE U.S. COULD DEFAULT.

I'M IN FAVOR OF THE REPUBLICANS FIGHTING AGAINST THE MASSIVE SPENDING BILLS.

$3.5 TRILLION IS A LOT OF MONEY BUT HOLDING FIRM ON THE DEBT LIMIT LIKE THIS IS DANGEROUS TERRITORY AND FOR THAT THEY GET AN F. >> YELLIN IS CONCERNED IF IT ISN'T RAISED.

>> THE DEBT CEILING IS NOT RAISED WE ARE GOING TO DEFAULT IN OCTOBER.

>> TARA.

>> TO THE CENTRAL BUS COMPANY WHICH, WITHOUT MUCH NOTICE, BASICALLY SHORTENED OR CUT BACK ON ROUTES THIS BASICALLY TWO WEEKS AGO.

THEY DID SO BECAUSE OF DRIVER SHORTAGES.

NOW PLEASE BELIEVE ME I'M DEFINITELY EMPATHETIC TO THE BUSINESS DECISION.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT THEY GAVE RIDERS SUCH SHORT NOTICE THAT THIS REALLY LEFT THEM REELING AND LEFT THEM LOOKING FOR TRANSPORTATION TO GET TO THEIR JOBS, TO GET TO SCHOOL, TO GET TO MEDICAL APPOINTMENTS, REALLY WITHOUT ANY OTHER RECOURSE.

AND THE CITIZENS WHO WERE HURT THE MOST ARE THOSE WHO ARE TYPICALLY LOW INCOME.

>> WELL, WHO DID SOMETHING WELL, KRISTI, YOUR A.

>> EQUAL TIME TO GOOD REPRESENTATIVES, SHERWOOD BOLERT A MEMBER OF CONGRESS FOR MANY YEARS AND MY REPRESENTATIVE FOR A WHILE DIED THIS WEEK.

HE WAS THE OLD FASHIONED REPUBLICAN THAT I GREW UP AROUND AND IN PARTICULAR, I VALUED HIS COMMITMENT TO THE ENVIRONMENT.

HE DID A LOT TO HELP MITIGATE THE EFFECT OF ACID RAIN IN THE ADIRONDACKS, HELPED WRITE THE CLEAN AIR ACT AND HE WILL BE MISSED.

>> CHAD.

>> SO THERE IS EARLY EVIDENCE ON PRESIDENT BIDEN'S MONTHLY $300 TAX CREDIT FOR CHILDREN SUGGESTS THAT IT IS REDUCED CHILDHOOD POVERTY, THAT POVERTY RATE FROM 16% IN JUNE TO 12% NOW.

THAT'S ABOUT THREE MILLION FEWER CHILDREN LIVING IN POVERTY.

THAT'S SHORT-TERM EVIDENCE BUT IF IT PERSISTS INTO THE LONG-TERM, THAT BODES WELL FOR BOTH BIDEN'S LEGACY AND FOR EVIDENCE IN FAVOR OF THE EFFICACY OF CASH TRANSFER PROGRAMS FOR ALLEVIATING CHILD POVERTY.

>> GOOD TO KNOW.

TARA, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO THE MAN CHRISTOPHER GRAY, HE IS THE FOUNDER OF AN APP CALLED VOLSY AND IT IS THE NUMBER ONE COLLEGE SCHOLARSHIP APP WHICH BRIDGES THE GAP BETWEEN STUDENTS AND MONEY FOR COLLEGE.

AND IT HAS EXPANDED ITS OPERATION TO SPECIFICALLY FOCUS ON HBCUs AND HELPING STUDENTS WHO WANT TO ATTEND THOSE SCHOOLS ATTAIN SCHOLARSHIPS.

>> WELL, WE ALWAYS ASK YOU FOR LETTERS AT THE END OF THE SHOW AND WE GOT ONE THIS WEEK FROM DOUGLAS NEILSEN.

THANK YOU FOR WRITING.

HE TALKS ABOUT THE COVID DISCUSSION.

I'M MYSTIFIED AS TO WHY THERE IS SO MUCH OPPOSITION ABOUT GETTING VACCINATED AGAINST COVID AND HE TALKS ABOUT THE DEVASTATION IN HIS OWN FAMILY FOR POLIO YEARS AGO AND WRITES COMMON SENSE AND SCIENCE SAY TREATING THE COVID IN THE SAME WAY AS POLIO WOULD WIPE OUT THE DISEASE.

WE ALSO GOT A LETTER FROM BARBARA WRENT ASKING US, SHE SAYS, THERE ISN'T ENOUGH WHEN WE TALK ABOUT COVID, TO TALK WERE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE HOLISTIC HEALTH COMMUNITY AND THE DEBUNKING OF NATURAL HEALTH PRODUCTS.

IF YOU WANT TO WRITE US IF YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH OUR DISCUSSION, WE WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU.

THE ADDRESSES ARE ON THE SCREEN AND IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY, IT REPEATS SATURDAYS AT 5:30.

YOU CAN FIND THE SHOW ONLINE ALSO ANY TIME AT WCNY.ORG.

GOOD NIGHT.

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