CULTURE WAR AND CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

IS JOE MANSION RIGHT ABOUT VOTING REFORM?

AND TAXES AND A RACE TO THE BOTTOM.

STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ S >> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

I'M JOINED TONIGHT BY BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LeMOYNE COLLEGE AND I'D LIKE TO WELCOME TO THE PANEL, CHAD CHAD, PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS AT COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

NOW, THE CULTURE WARS IN AMERICA NEVER SEEM TO LET UP.

THE LATEST BATTLE GROUND IS CRITICAL RACE THEORY.

REPUBLICANS IN MORE THAN A DOZEN STATES HAVE PASSED OR ARE CONSIDERING BANS ON TEACHING CRITICAL RACE THEY'RE NECESSITY SCHOOLS.

THEY SAY THAT THE THEORY IS A MARXIST IDEOLOGY THAT TEACHES ALL WHITES ARE RACISTS AND THE U.S. IS A WHITE SUPREMACIST NATION.

SOME OF THE BILLS PROPOSE TEACHING DIVISIVE THEORY.

NINA, WHAT IS CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND SHOULD ASPECTS, ALL OF IT OR SOME OF IT BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS?

>> WELL, I'M JUST GOING TO BE VERY CANDID HERE, DAVE AND TELL YOU THAT EVEN TO THIS DAY, AFTER A YEAR OF TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT, I STILL STRUGGLE TO DEFINE WHAT CRITICAL RACE THEORY IS BECAUSE EVERYWHERE I LOOK, I FIND WORD SALADS THAT I CAN'T QUITE SORT THROUGH.

SO THE BEST THAT I CAN FIGURE IS THAT IT INCLUDES THESE TWO EXTREMES, ON THE ONE HAND WHERE EVERY AMOUNT OF RACIAL INEQUALITY IN THE U.S. IS EXPLAINED BY RACISM.

THEN AT THE OTHER END ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT NOTHING, NO RACIAL INEQUALITY IS EXPLAINED BY RACISM.

AND THE FACT IS THAT THE TRUTH IS SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN.

SO I WOULD SAY TO YOUR QUESTION, YES, SOME ASPECTS OF C.R.T.

SHOULD BE TAUGHT, SPECIFICALLY THOSE PARTS THAT ARE GROUNDED IN CONCRETE EVIDENCE.

THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE ON BOTH ENDS THAT YOU HAVE, SOME INSTRUCTORS WHO BELIEVE THAT IT IS THEIR JOB TO SHOVE THEIR VIEW POINTS, THEIR VALUES DOWN THE THROATS OF STUDENTS, EVEN THOUGH PARENTS ARE FOOTING THE BILL.

AND THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE POLITICIANS WHO THINK THAT SOMEHOW THEY'RE IN A POSITION TO DICTATE WHAT IS AND IS NOT TAUGHT IN THE CLASSROOM, EVEN THOUGH MANY OF THEM WEREN'T IN THE CLASSROOM AS MUCH AS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

SO IN SUM AND SUBSTANCE, THERE IS A DIFFICULTY WITH FIGURING OUT WHAT SHOULD BE TAUGHT.

BUT AS SCHOLARS, WE KNOW WHEN POLITICIANS GET INVOLVED AND WHEN YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO ARE INDOCTRINATING STUDENTS, WE ARE ON A SLIPPERY SLOPE SO THAT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE TO ADDRESS.

>> THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN HIGH SCHOOLS OR EVEN YOUNGER STUDENTS THAN IN COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITIES AS WELL, I WOULD SAY.

>> YEAH, AND ABSOLUTELY.

YOU ACTUALLY HAVE, IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS, POLITICIANS WHO, BY WAY OF SCHOOL BOARDS HAVE DICTATED, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT SORTS OF TEXTBOOKS SHOULD BE USED.

SO ONE MAJOR PUBLISHER HAD CHANGED THE REFERENCE TO SLAVES IN THE U.S. TO WORKERS BECAUSE OF THAT POLITICAL PRESSURE.

SO WHEN YOU HAVE THAT SORT OF THING HAPPENING, AGAIN, IT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE.

>> PART OF THE PROBLEM IS WHEN STATE LEGISLATURES GET INVOLVED IN TRYING TO SET CURRICULUM POLICY FOR PUBLIC SCHOOLS, WHICH IS ALMOST ALWAYS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE.

EDUCATION POLICY REALLY SHOULD BE LEFT TO EDUCATION PROFESSIONALS, WHETHER IT'S IN PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM OR COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

I MEAN TO ME, THE IDEA-- AND YOU POSED THE PROBLEM WITH A PARADOX PRETTY WELL, IN THAT THERE IS A GREAT VARIETY OF OPINIONS ABOUT WHAT CONSTITUTES CRITICAL RACE THEORY AND THAT MAY BE PART OF THE PROBLEM OF HOW IT TRANSLATES BY THE TIME YOU GET TO A PUBLIC SCHOOL SOMEWHERE.

AND SOMETIMES IT TRANSLATES PRETTY POORLY, PRETTY HAM HANDEDLY IN TERMS OF HOW IT'S DEALT WITH.

BUT IT IS, SURELY TRUE, THAT RACISM IS AN INSTITUTIONAL STRUCTURAL PROBLEM THAT DATES BACK TO THE FOUNDING AND THE WRITING OF THE CONSTITUTION.

AFTER ALL, THE CONSTITUTION NOT ONLY RECOGNIZED BUT PROTECTED AND REWARDED SLAVERY.

THE DOCUMENT WAS AMENDED IN THE 19th CENTURY.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE PROBLEMS DISAPPEARED BY ANY MEANS.

AND WE STILL HAVE RACIAL PROBLEMS TODAY.

IT'S IN THE FABRIC OF HOUSING POLICY, CRIMINAL JUSTICE POLICY AND MANY PLACES ELSEWHERE AND WE NEED TO RECOGNIZE AND TEACH THAT THESE THINGS GO ON.

AND TO ME, THAT'S KIND OF THE TAKEAWAY, AT LEAST FOR ME.

>> I KIND OF THINK OF IT AS IF YOU ARE INTERESTED IN THE DETERMINANTS OF ECONOMIC SUCCESS.

ON ONE EXTREME YOU HAVE THE NOTION OF SELF-DETERMINATION, SELF MADE PERSON, YOUR OUTCOMES ARE ALL ABOUT YOUR ABILITIES AND THE CHOICES YOU MAKE.

AND IN THAT KIND OF CONTEXT IF YOU WANT TO DO BETTER, YOU INVEST IN YOUR OWN SKILLS.

AND THE OTHER EXTREME, YOU HAVE A SECULAR CALVINISM WHERE EVERYTHING IS PREDETERMINED AND PREORDAINED SO IF YOU WANT TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL AND YOU ARE IN A MINORITY GROUP, YOU HAVE TO OVERTURN THE SYSTEM BECAUSE THE SYSTEM IS UNJUST, RIGHT?

SO WITH CRITICAL RACE THEORY, I THINK BEING SOMETHING THAT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE ON THAT CALVINISTIC SIDE AND IF IT CALLS FOR OVERTHROW, THAT'S WHERE IT GETS SCARY, TO MORE ESTABLISHMENT TYPES.

NOW AT ITS BEST, I THINK IT DOES EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAY.

IT POINTS OUT THE HONEST TO GOODNESS INEQUITIES BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM.

BUT AT ITS WORST, SOME OF THE ADVOCATES WILL SAY THINGS LIKE MATHEMATICS IS INHERENTLY RACIST BECAUSE IT FOCUSES ON RIGHT ANSWERS AND OBJECTIVE FACTS.

OR IN MY WORLD, THAT CAPITALISM IS SOMEHOW OPPRESSIVE AND DESPITE THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, CAPITALISM IS PROBABLY MORE RESPONSIBLE FOR ALLEVIATING WORLD POVERTY THAN ANY OTHER INSTITUTION ON EARTH.

SO IF WE TALK ABOUT SHOULD THIS BE BANNED OR SHOULD THE NOT, BANNED IS A STRONG WORD.

I WOULD RATHER SAY THAT YOU ARE NOT REALLY HELPING CHILDREN IF YOU TEACH THEM THAT MATH IS ABOUT FEELINGS AND THAT CAPITALISM IS EVIL.

>> WELL, I THINK, I MEAN, AS YOU ARE POINTING OUT NINA, THERE IS A CATCH-ALL PHRASE LIKE THE C.R.T.

BUT I THINK THERE ARE A COUPLE OF IMPORTANT TENETS THERE THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO NOTE.

ONE IS THAT C.R.T.

MAINTAINS THAT IT IS NOT ABOUT INDIVIDUAL FORMS OF RACISM.

RACISM IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION.

IT IS NOT ROOTED IN BIOLOGY.

BUT IT DOES HAVE REAL EFFECTS ON STRUCTURES AND INSTITUTIONS.

AND I WOULD STRIKINGLY DISAGREE.

ONE OF THE C.R.T.

APPROACHES THAT CAPITALISM HAS DONE MAZING GOOD IS TO ALSO POINT OUT THE HORRORS OF SLAVERY AND CAPITALISM THAT WENT ALONGSIDE EACH OTHER.

AND THERE ARE SEVERAL IMPORTANT SCHOLARS LIKE ERIC WILLIAMS AND SO ON THAT POINTED THAT OUT.

I DO THINK, HOWEVER, THOUGH, THAT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE CRITIQUING C.R.T.

FOR IT BEING TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS ARE CONFLICTING IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE OR USING MANY OTHER THINGS.

IT HAS BECOME THE TEACHING HISTORY ITSELF AN IMPORTANT ASPECT OF HISTORY, LIKE THE RACE RIOTS AND OTHER KINDS OF IMPORTANT EVENTS THAT HAVE MEASURED AFRICANS AMERICAN EXPERIENCES AND WEALTH.

I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR SCHOOL STUDENTS TO CONFRONT IMPORTANT AND DIFFICULT QUESTIONS IN HISTORY; AND THAT THE 1916 PROJECT IS NOT ABOUT C.R.T., IT'S ABOUT ACTUALLY NOT TEACHING OUR KIDS... >> THE POINT THAT SOME OF THESE BILLS ARE OPPOSED TO QUOTE UNQUOTE DIVISIVE CONCEPTS.

THE WORLD IS DIVISIVE.

LIFE IS DIVISIVE.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THESE ISSUES.

DON'T THEY HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, WE HAVE TO LEARN ABOUT THAT, BUT I SORT OF LEAN TOWARD THE SOCIAL SCIENCE PERSPECTIVE OF THIS AND THIS RESPECT THAT THERE IS NO SINGULAR CAUSE OF ANYTHING WHEN IT COMES TO SOCIAL AND POLITICAL PHENOMENA.

THERE ARE MULTIPLE CAUSES.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, WHAT THE TWO SIDES OR 300 SIDES OF THIS DEBATE HAVE DONE IS LATCH ON TO A SINGLE EXPLANATION.

SO THOSE WHO PUSH C.R.T.

TEND TO NOT RECOGNIZE THAT CLASS ACCOUNTS FOR INEQUALITY, THAT CULTURAL ISSUES ACCOUNT, GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION AND INDIVIDUAL CHOICE.

BECAUSE HERE'S THE DANGER OF WHEN YOU RELY SOLELY ON STRUCTURAL, YOU ARE DENIED THE INDIVIDUALITY OF THE PERSON WHOSE LIFE IS AFFECTED.

>> NOW WE HAVE TO MOVE O.

SENATOR JOE MANSION IS TAKING A LOT OF FRIENDLY FIRE FROM FELLOW DEMOCRATS.

HE WROTE AN OP-ED LAST WEEKEND SAYING HE IS A NO ON THE BIG VOTING RIGHTS BILL AND HE WILL NOT AGREE TO CHANGES TO THE FILIBUSTER.

SO DOES HE HAVE THE RIGHT IDEA?

I MEAN CAN HE FORCE THE VOTING RIGHTS BILL TO BE SCALED BACK JUST TO THE ESSENTIAL POINTS AND PERHAPS MAKE IT BIPARTISAN?

>> THE H.R.-1 AS IT STANDS NOW IS A LARGE BILL, AN OMNIBUS BILL.

AND THERE ARE VARIOUS ASPECTS LIKE CAMPAIGN FINANCE REFORM, JERRY BANDERRING, RESPONSIBLE VOTING LAWS FOR INCREASING VOTER PARTICIPATION AND SO ON.

THEY'RE ALL LUMPED INTO THAT ONE BILL AND THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE PROBLEM.

SO I FEEL JOE MANSION CAN, ONE OF THE WAYS TO ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, STICK OUT PARTS OF THAT H.R.-1 AND SEE WHAT INDIVIDUAL BILLS COULD BE PASSED.

SO THE VOTING, THE JOHN LEWIS, THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT, THAT CAN BE AN IMPORTANT APPROACH.

BUT, YOU KNOW, I WAS LOOKING AT THE OP-ED AND IT SAYS THE TRUTH IS, THERE IS A BETTER WAY IF WE SEEK-- IF WE SEEK TO FIND IT TOGETHER.

BUT YOU KNOW, BY THE SELF ADMITTANCE OF THE OPPOSITION, WHO HAVE BEEN EXTREMELY OBSTRUCTIONIST, I FEEL JOE MANSION IS TRYING TO FIND LOVE WHERE THERE ISN'T ANY.

AND, YOU KNOW,... >> LOOKING FOR LOVE IN ALL THE WRONG PLACES.

[LAUGHTER] >> THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS JOE MANSION'S END GAME.

HE SAYS LET'S GO WITH THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT, ATTEMPTING TO RESTORE SECTION 4 OF THE 1965 VOTING RIGHTS ACT STRUCK DOWN BY THE SUPREME COURT IN 2013 IN A TERRIBLE DECISION, BY THE WAY.

AND THAT'S THE REAUTHORIZING THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT HAS HAD WIDE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN CONGRESS.

I THINK IT HAS BEEN REAUTHORIZED FIVE TIMES OR SO SINCE 1965.

AND HE SEEMS TO BE OF THE VIEW THAT HE CAN GET AND SUPPORTERS CAN GET BIPARTISAN MAJORITY TO PASS THAT ACT, WHICH WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT ALL BY ITSELF.

I DO THINK THAT THE FOR THE PEOPLE ACT, THE LARGER BILL, IS A BRIDGE TOO FAR.

I MEAN IT'S JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

AND IS THAT REALLY WHERE THE DEMOCRATS WANT TO PUT ALL OF THEIR CHIPS?

I THINK IT'S A MISTAKE.

I THINK MANSION IS RIGHT THERE BUT WHAT IS HIS END GAME?

WHEN THE REPUBLICANS DON'T LINE UP FOR BIPARTISAN VOTE TO GET 60 VOTES, DOES HE SAY, I TRIED AND GO HOME OR DOES HE SAY, I'VE HAD ENOUGH.

WE'VE GOT TO CHANGE THE FILIBUSTER RULE.

>> I DON'T WANT TO PREDICT WHAT HIS END GAME WILL BE, BUT I THINK IT BEARS STRESSING THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE TO DO SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU HAVE 14 REPUBLICAN-CONTROLLED STATES THAT HAVE TAKEN STEPS AND PASSED BILLS TO UNDERMINE VOTING.

I THINK MANSION UNDERSTANDS THAT, RIGHT?

SO THE ISSUE IS WHAT CAN BE DONE?

AND I'M A LITTLE BIT OF A REALIST THAT COMPROMISE HAS TO TAKE PLACE SO THAT SOMETHING CAN GET DONE.

AND SO FAR MANSION HAS SAID THAT HE IS OKAY WITH CHANGING, BASICALLY THE FORMULA, BOB, OF THE PRECLEARANCE SECTION OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT SO THAT YOU JUST USE NEW CENSUS DATA TO SHOW WHICH STATES SHOULD GET PRECLEARANCE BEFORE THEY MAKE THE CHANGES.

SOME OTHER THINGS THAT ARE IN THE BILL THAT I THINK ARE VALUABLE AND THAT MAX SUPPORT MANSION SUPPORTS P IS TO REQUIRE PAPER BALLOTS AND TO KEEP THEM.

OF COURSE WE ALL REMEMBER THE HANGING CHADS AND THE DIMPLED CHADS.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> OF 2000.

BUT THE OTHER THING, THE LAST ELECTION SCREENED OUT THE NEED FOR UNIFORM COUNTING PROCESSES SUCH AS WHO CAN CHALLENGE WHAT THIRD PARTIES CAN CHALLENGE, AND THEN THE CERTIFICATION PROCESS.

SO I THINK THERE IS SOME ROOM THERE.

>> AND THE COUNTING AND THE CERTIFICATION ASPECTS ARE PART OF THE-- ARE BEING CHANGED IN SOME OF THE STATE BILLS WE ARE SEEING NOW.

IS THAT RIGHT, CHAD?

>> ACTUALLY, I WANTED TO GO BACK AND TALK TO THE OPINION HE WROTE HIMSELF.

I HAD A LOT OF RESPECT ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF WHAT HE IS SAYING.

HE IS SAYING, LOOK, SEVEN G.O.P.

SENATORS VOTED IN IMPEACH DONALD TRUMP FOR, YOU KNOW, INCITING THE INSURRECTION.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE A DEMONSTRATED RECORD OF CARING ABOUT ELECTION INTEGRITY BUT WHEN IT CAME TO H.R.-1, NONE OF THEM WERE WILLING TO SUPPORT IT.

SO IT COMES DOWN TO, IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE AN ELECTION BILL, IT BETTER BE BIPARTISAN.

MORE COMICALLY, WE SAW SENATOR GILLIBRAND GET INTO THE NEWS BECAUSE CHER TWEETED OUT THAT GILLIBRAND WAS A FAKE DEMOCRAT AND TRAITOR BUT OF COURSE CHER WAS MISTAKING THE TWO SENATORS NAMED KIRSTEN.

OOPS.

ONE OF THE NICE THINGS ABOUT THAT IS ONE OF GILLIBRAND'S QUOTES TO RESURFACE WHERE IN 2019 WHEN SHE WAS RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, SHE ARGUED IF YOU DON'T HAVE 60 VOTES YET, IT JUST MEANS YOU HAVEN'T DONE ENOUGH ADVOCACY AND YOU NEED TO WORK A LOT HARDER.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT DEMOCRATS NEED TO ASK THEMSELVES.

IS THE 2019 SENATOR GILLIBRAND RIGHT OR IS IT REALLY GOING ABOUT SENATOR GILLIBRAND IN 2021 WHERE YOU DO A ONE PARTY VOTE ON AN ELECTION BILL AND I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DANGEROUS.

>> THERE IS A BROAD BASE SUPPORT.

SEVERAL POLLS ARE SHOWING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS VOTERS SUPPORT VERY IMPORTANT PARTS OF THIS BILL.

SO IT SEEMS TO BE A MUST PASS.

SO THERE ARE SOME WAYS THE DEMOCRATS MIGHT HAVE TO FIND IN ORDER TO, YOU KNOW, TO TONE DOWN THE BILL OR BREAK IT UP AND PASS DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THAT BILL.

>> IF THEY GET 60 VOTES FOR EITHER OF THESE BILLS, I'LL EAT MY HAT.

>> A SCALED DOWN VERSION.

>> YEAH, SO PERHAPS THE SCALED DOWN VERSION IS, I MEAN THE ONLY WAY TO GO HERE, TO ACHIEVE SOMETHING, WHICH EVERYONE SEEMS TO AGREE SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE SO THAT PERHAPS IS A WAY.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S PUSH FOR A TAX FLOOR ON CORPORATIONS WORLDWIDE HAS BORN FRUIT.

AN AGREEMENT AMONG G7 COUNTRIES FOR A GLOBAL 15% CORPORATE TAX AND SECRETARY YELLEN SAID IT WILL KEEP COMPANIES THREATENING TO LEAVE FOR LOWER TAX COUNTRIES.

THE G.O.P.

SAYS IT'S A TERRIBLE IDEA.

DEAD ON ARRIVAL IN CONGRESS.

SO, CHAD, WILL THIS AGREEMENT, SHOULD IT MOVE FORWARD?

WILL IT DO WHAT THE G.O.P.

SAYS AND FORCE TAX REVENUE FROM THE UNITED STATES TREASURY THAT TO SOME OTHER PLACE?

>> THIS IS WHY I REALLY MISS THE WONKY NERDINESS OF PAUL RYAN.

THIS IS WAY UP HIS ALLEY.

IF YOU LOOK BACK TO 2017, THIS WAS WHAT HE WAS WORKING ON.

THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT I THINK IS INHERENTLY AT ODDS WITH G.O.P.

ORTHODOXY.

THE CORE OF THE PROBLEM IS WHAT IS MODERN GLOBALIZATION?

WELL, IT'S ABOUT SEPARATING PRODUCTION PROCESSES OF A SINGLE FIRM ACROSS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES OR SHIFTING IDEAS ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS.

AND THAT COMPLICATES THE WAY THAT YOU TAX PROFITS, RIGHT?

HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE IS THE HIGH VALUE ADDED PART OF THE PROCESS OCCURRING?

IS IT HAPPENING HERE OR IS IT HAPPENING IN THE KAY CAYMAN ISLANDS.

IF YOU ARE A CLEVER TAX ATTORNEY, YOU ARE ARGUING IT HAPPENS WHERE THE TAXES ARE LOW.

THAT CREATES A PROBLEM SHIFTING PROFITS OUTSIDE OR SHIFTING PROFITS AND TAX REVENUES OUTSIDE OF U.S.

BORDERS.

AND SO PAUL RYAN REALLY GOT THE BALL ROLLING BACK IN 2017 WITH THE TAX CUT AND JOBS ACT.

I MEAN ONE OF THE LESS SEXY PARTS OF THAT REPUBLICAN TAX CUT BILL OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, WAS THAT IT DID FORCE FIRMS TO SORT OF REPATRIOT THEIR PROFIT FROM ABROAD FOR TAX PURPOSES.

I THINK IN SOME WAYS, THAT'S WHAT THIS 15% MINIMUM TAX IS ABOUT.

IT'S A NATURAL EXTENSION OF THAT, TRYING TO GET FIRMS TO AVOID THEIR U.S. TAXES.

WHAT IS NOT TO LIKE ABOUT IT?

MAYBE THE SOVEREIGNTY ISSUES, THE TAX SECTOR IS REALLY WAS IS GOING TO BE AFFECTED HERE AND THAT'S A ROBUST INDUSTRY IN THE U.S., NOT SO MUCH IN EUROPE.

DO WE REALLY WANT THE EUROPEANS TELLING US WHAT TO DO?

BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE ARE INTERESTING ALTERNATIVES AT THE HEART.

>> I JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP AND ASK YOU A QUESTION, CHAD ABOUT ABOUT THE STRATEGY BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT PART OF BIDEN'S THINKING IS THAT IF HE CAN GET A MINIMUM GLOBAL TAX, THAT'S GOING TO DECREASE THE LIKELIHOOD OF CORPORATIONS LEAVING ONCE HE IS ABLE TO, PERHAPS, RAISE THE MINIMUM CURRENT TAX FROM 21 TO 28.

BUT WILL IT REALLY WORK THAT WAY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A MATHEMATICIAN, BUT 15 IS STILL LESS THAN 28, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

YEAH I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SO MUCH ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SHIFTING-- I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO HELP THE 21 TO 28 ISSUE.

I THINK IT'S REALLY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH-- HOW MANY PROFITS ARE WE GOING TO SHIFT OUT TO IRELAND WHERE THE TAX RATE IS 12.5, I THIS I.

>> AND THEY LOSE OUT ON THIS AND THEY'RE AGAINST IT.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

IRELAND COULD STAND TO BENEFIT WE HAVE ABESTABLISHED INDUSTRY, 12.5 TO 15, THAT'S NOT A BIG JUMP.

>> AND THEY WOULD TRY TO GET IRELAND AND THE OTHER G-20 COUNTRIES ON BOARD.

>> THE G7 IS A BASIC START.

IT'S A LONG WAY TO GO BUT YOU KNOW, PROFIT SHIFTING THE PERFECT NAME OF WHAT THE COMPANIES DO, YOU KNOW, THAT ALREADY HAS 125 COUNTRY WORKING GROUP.

AND IN FACT, THE WORLD BANK, SURPRISINGLY, CAME UP WITH, YOU KNOW, IN SUPPORT OF THESE KINDS OF MINIMUM GLOBAL WEALTH TAX.

BUT IT HAS TO FILTER THROUGH A LARGER SUMMIT OF COUNTRIES.

AND IN RECENT STUDIES BY THE U.K.

IT SHOWS IT IS NOT NECESSARILY TRUE THAT COUNTRIES WOULD LOSE OUT BECAUSE THERE IS SOME REVENUE SHARING THAT CAN HAPPEN.

AND ALSO, BY THE WAY, THROUGH THIS CONVERSATION IN THE G7, BIDEN EXACTED A CONCESSION FOR THE U.S.

IN TERMS OF DIGITAL TAXATION OF DIGITAL CONTENT.

AND YOU KNOW, THERE IS SUPPORT AMONG ECONOMISTS AND SO ON THAT YOU CAN'T SIMPLY SHIFT YOUR PROFITS TO DIFFERENT PLACES.

YOU HAVE TO PAY TAXES IF YOU ARE SELLING SOMETHING IN A CERTAIN COUNTRY.

AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE OF YOUR PRESENCE.

BUT IT'S A LONG WAY TO GO.

AND I DO AGREE WITH CHAD.

IT DOESN'T REALLY NEGATE THE REPUBLICANS.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE A LOT OF THINGS TO SEE HERE AND THERE IS SUPPORT FOR THAT.

>> WHY WOULD YOU NOT INCREASE THE GLOBAL RATE TO 15% IF YOU CAN DO THAT.

IN THE 1980s, GLOBAL TAXATION RATES WERE IN THE RANGE OF 40 TO 45%.

TODAY GLOBALLY THEY'RE AROUND 23%.

CORPORATIONS HAVE BEEN DOING BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER WITH MORE AND MORE FAVORABLE GOVERNMENTAL POLICIES.

LOWER TAXES GIVE THEM WAYS TO HIDE MONEY, ALL SORTS OF THINGS.

IT'S TIME FOR CORPORATIONS TO PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE TO THE GOVERNMENTS THAT GIVE THEM SO MUCH, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES.

>> AND YOU SAY PAY A LITTLE BIT MORE.

SO I DO WONDER IF WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT ON A GLOBAL TAX, IS 15 THE RIGHT LEVEL?

SHOULD IT BE MORE?

>> GOT TO START SOMEWHERE.

>> YEAH, THAT'S IT, I THINK.

>> AND THE OTHER ASPECT OF THAT IS THE DIGITAL SERVICES TAX, WHICH YOU MENTIONED.

SO THAT COULD ADDRESS SOME OF THE PROBLEMS YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WITH AMERICA'S TAX SECTOR, RIGHT?

IF BEE HAVE A UNIFORM INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM?

>> IT IS INTERESTING THAT WEALTH IS DIFFICULT TO FIND AND TAX.

WEALTH MEANS ANY ASSET.

IF YOU OWN PAINTINGS.

THE REASON MANY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES USED TO HAVE IT AND DON'T HAVE IT NOW EXCEPT FOR BELGIUM, NORWAY, SWITZERLAND AND SWEDEN, IT IS DIFFICULT TO FIND OUT WHAT ACTUAL PEOPLE'S WEALTH IS BECAUSE THEY CAN SHIFT IT TO DIFFERENT THINGS.

SO THE ENFORCEMENT AND EFFICIENCY BECOMES A PROBLEM.

BUT IF IT'S A GLOBAL THING, I THINK IT WILL TOTALLY WORK.

>> I THINK THE SIMPLEST SOLUTION IS NOT TO TAX WORLDWIDE PROFITS BUT TO TAX WHEREVER THE SALE OCCURS.

>> OKAY.

LET'S GO TO OUR As AND Fs.

NINA YOU BEGIN.

>> THE NATIONAL MORATORIUM ON EVICTIONS ENDS IN ABOUT TWO WEEKS.

YET ONLY A FRACTION OF THE MONEY IS TO HELP RENTERS AND LANDLORDS HAVE BEEN DISBURSED.

THIS IS BECAUSE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DON'T HAVE A PROCESS FOR SPENDING EMERGENCY RENTAL AID.

IMAGINE THAT.

A GOVERNMENT THAT DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO SPEND MONEY IN ORDER TO HELP ITS RESIDENTS.

>> MY F GOES TO REPRESENTATIVE LOUIE GOMEZ WHO RECENTLY ASKED IF THE MOON'S ORBIT COULD BE CHANGED P IN ORDER TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE.

F FOR HIS ASTRONOMICAL KNOWLEDGE.

>> CHAD, YOUR F PLEASE.

>> MY F TO VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS FOR HER INTERVIEW WITH NBC LESTER HOLT.

YOU HAVEN'T BEEN TO THE BORDER.

DO YOU PLAN TO GO TO THE U.S.-MEXICAN BORDER.

AND I HAVEN'T BEEN TO EUROPE HE SAID.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE POINT YOU ARE MAKING.

THE VICE PRESIDENT SHOULD HAVE PREPARED FOR THE QUESTION.

IF HER INCLINATION WAS TO SAY I HAVEN'T BEEN TO EUROPE, SHE SHOULD HAVE BETA TESTED THAT WHO WOULD HAVE SAID THAT SOUNDS A LITTLE CALLOUS AND ANTIINTELLECTUAL.

WE PREFER THAT TO BE THE HALLMARKS OF THE LAST ADMINISTRATION, NOT THIS ONE.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO SOUTHERN STATES THAT DESPITE RISING INFECTION RATES ARE CUTTING BACK ON COVID-19 REPORTING DATA.

RISING RATES MEAN YOU NEED MORE INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE INFECTION, NOT LESS.

>> OKAY.

AND TO OUR As, NINA.

>> PICKING UP ON BOB'S POINT A LITTLE.

ONLY 2% OF PEOPLE IN AFRICA HAVE RECEIVED AT LEAST ONE DOSE OF A COVID-19 VACCINE WHICH IS SIX TIMES LESS THAN THE GLOBAL AVERAGE.

SO I'M GIVING AN A TO THE MASTERCARD FOUNDATION WHICH PLANS TO GIVE 1.$3 BILLION TO AFRICAN COUNTRIES FOR VACCINE MANUFACTURING AND DELIVERY.

P. >> AND YOUR A.

>> TO THE CITY OF SEATTLE AND ITS RESIDENTS FOR BEING THE MOST VACCINATED MAJOR CITY IN AMERICA.

WITH 70% OF ELIGIBLE POPULATION NOW VACCINATED IN SEATTLE, I HOPE THEY ARE SURELY SLEEPING BETTER.

>> FUNNY MOVIE REFERENCE.

CHAD, YOUR A PLEASE.

>> TO DAN COFFEE BRENDAN, JOHN LEO AND DENNIS WALKER, FOUR MEN ORDAINED INTO THE PRIESTHOOD IN THE SYRACUSE DIOCESE.

THE LARGEST ORDINATION CLASS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS AND SO IT'S A GOOD STEP FOR THE LOCAL COMMUNITY.

>> OKAY.

AND BOB, YOUR A.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO THE FBI FOR RETRIEVING MOST OF THE RANSOM MONEY THAT WAS PAID BY THE COLONIAL PIPELINE AFTER IT WAS EXTORTED AND IT WAS AN INTERRUPTION OF FUEL DURING THAT TIME.

THE FBI MANAGING TO GET THAT MONEY IS A MAJOR VICTORY.

LET'S HOPE THEY CAN DO IT MORE OFTEN.

>> OKAY.

AND I DO HAVE A LETTER THAT I WOULD LIKE TO MENTION.

WE HAD A VIEWER WRITE IN, LAWRENCE WILLIAMS, ANTICIPATED, I THINK OUR DISCUSSION ABOUT SENATOR MANSION.

LAWRENCE WROTE IN TO SAY HE WAS WRITING ABOUT MANSION'S HOPE OF GETTING 10 REPUBLICAN SENATORS TO WORK WITH HIM AND HE SAID SOMEONE NEEDS TO EXPLAIN TO WEST VIRGINIA SENATOR JOE MANSION WHAT MITCH McCONNELL AND 5400 KILOGRAMS OF WEIGHT HAVE IN COMMON.

IT IS THE WEIGHT OF AN OLD FASHIONED WRECKING BALL AND LAWRENCE WILLIAMS SAID THAT WHAT IS SENATOR McCONNELL HAS BECOME AND HE SAYS YOU CANNOT NEGOTIATE WITH A WRECKING BALL.

SO WE'LL HAVE TO SEE, Mr. WILLIAMS, IF YOU ARE WATCHING AGAIN TONIGHT, YOU HEARD US DISCUSS THE ISSUE TODAY, SO MAYBE YOU CAN WRITE IN WITH A FOLLOW-UP.

AND WITH THAT, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS, YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY AND FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.