ON THIS MONTH'S EDITION OF CONNECT NEW YORK - WE'RE DISCUSSING SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES FACING FARMERS IN THE EMPIRE STATE.

DON'T GO ANYWHERE.

♪ ♪ WELCOME TO CONNECT-NEW YORK, I'M DAVID LOMBARDO - HOST OF WCNY'S THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM, A DAILY PUBLIC RADIO SHOW, BROADCASTING FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

ON THIS MONTH'S EPISODE WE'RE DIVING BACK INTO THE WORLD OF AGRICULTURE AND HIGHLIGHITNG SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES IN NEW YORK, INCLUDING LABOR COSTS ON FARMS, COMPLYING WITH THE STATE'S GREEN INITIATIVES, AND DEVELOPING THE NEXT GENERATION OF FARMERS.

BEFORE WE DIVE INTO THOSE TOPICS WITH OUR PANEL OF EXPERTS, WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE EXPERIENCE OF NEW YORK'S DAIRY FARMERS, WHO - WITH NEARLY 3,000 FARMS - MAKE UP THE LARGEST SINGLE SEGMENT OF THE STATE'S AGRICULTURE INDUSTRY.

OUR PRODUCER, ALEC AMBRUSO, CHURNED UP THIS STORY.

♪ ♪ At red maples dairy we produce raw milk that we sell to mutual multiple processes around the state.

On a yearly basis we are producing about 90 million pounds of raw milk.

A lot of that milk is going into cheese production.

It goes to a local plant here in Buffalo and some of it goes as far as Pennsylvania.

New York is a very competitive in dairy.

We are the number 5 state in the U.S. as far as dairy production is concerned.

>> Farm numbers are going down, but milk-- the number of total cows in the state is fairly steady over the last several years.

And milk production is growing a little bit.

So if farm numbers go down with the same number of cows, milk production going up, that means we have larger, on average, farms.

>> The consolidation within the industry has been going on for many years.

It seems like it is going on at an accelerated pace today.

And a lot of it is driven by the economics and the fishcies that can be gained by having a larger facilitate facility.

Some of it is driven by the fact that there is not another generation to take over the farm and farms are joining forces to be more efficient together.

Consolidation is a reality.

Today it's happening in dairy farming and it's happening in all industries everywhere.

>> I've seen farmers starting to turn to new technologies to help make their operations more efficient.

A lot of this has been driven by increases in the minimum wage and the overtime thresholds being increased as well.

So they have had to try to find ways to become more efficient, but at the same time, it's very expensive to have those new improvements come along.

You want to be able to provide them with grants that are not reimbursable, that they can get to put those dollars right to work to help them.

Even the increasing costs for overtime and with the minimum wage, a lot of farm I.R.S.-- a lot of farmers have had to turn to more aggressive techniques to do things with automation.

>> The advance in technology has been huge to our dairy farms and to our crop and production.

It's allowed us to get way more efficient in recent years and the technology is moving just as fast on the farms as it is in the rest of the world.

So we have implemented a lot of that technology here.

We focus on making the milk as efficiently as possible and some of the technology that we have used to do that is technology that just measures cows lying time, eating times, cows time away from the group and making sure the cows have a comfortable bed to lay on.

Make sure their trips to the parlor are as short as possible so they have time to be a cow, they have time to eat and lay down and rest.

And we try to minimize any stress there so that the cow can be a cow and making sure that the diet that gets to the cows every day is the same diet so that they can produce the milk that's projected for that diet to produce.

>> A dairy industry is a little bit unique in that dairy is a full-time job usually for at least one person and often for more than one person.

Dairy farming is every day at least twice a day, as far as the milking the cows and then the feeding and everything that goes along with that.

>> The challenges that our farm is facing has a lot do with labor and regulation that is occurring here in New York State.

Labor costs are rising and labor availability is another challenge that we face, too.

It's harder and harder to find people that want to do this work on a daily basis.

Our businesses run 24/7, 365 days a year.

So you know, we have been focused on working with state legislature to make sure that farms can remain viable, that the regulation is workable and that we can manage the rise in labor costs because we are not able to just pass those costs on to the consumer.

>> I think New York is very proud of our agricultural history and background.

It was built by family farmers who are very, very proud of their stewardship of the land and the role that they play in the communities that they serve.

People visit those farms.

They buy products from the farms.

It builds local pride.

Our local cooperative expenses-- extensions interact with those farmers and their families.

>> When you talk about losing dairy farms, you are talking about losing full-time farms and dairy farms, in particular in a astate like New York, tend to be one of the major economic drivers.

>> So when we lose that, we lose an important critical part of the fiber of New York.

We take a lot of pride in these dairy farms and we warrant to see them-- we want to see them thrive.

>> And now to our panel of agriculture policy experts and stakeholders and they are JULIE SUAREZ, ASSOCIATE DEAN FOR LAND-GRANT AFFAIRS AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY, JEFF WILIAMS, DIRECTOR OF POLICY FOR THE NEW YORK FARM BUREAU, AND CHRISTINE KOHLER, EGG PROCESS MANAGER AT HUDSON EGG FARMS.

as someone who is making a career in the agriculture industry in New York, what stands out to you about the challenges in the Empire State?

>> New York is unique because of where we are situated on the east coast.

And I think that puts us at an advantage to strategically take on the challenges that we face as agricultural producers in New York.

Because you don't think of New York all the time for ag.

You hear New York.

You this you think New York City but New York is so much more diverse rural landscape that's connected between all these cities that are scatter add-- scattered across the state that connect us to so many wonders.

So as a young farmer who has decided to make a career here in New York and come back to the family farm, there is a lot of opportunities that excite me to be here and represent agriculture.

From one thing that makes us unique is that we do have a wastewater treatment plant on site for clean water.

And so like there are things that farmers can do to be conscientious and take on the challenges but also be a key stakeholder and the solution to the problems that are at hand.

>> I know you are involved with some of the issues that farmers face nationally.

So you have a sense of the experience in New York compared to other states.

And I am curious, you know, you highlighted the opportunities in New York.

But are there challenges as well, given the regulatory structure or the state laws that are in place that have you to deal with?

>> Absolutely.

We are navigating challenges with labor, with packaging material, just trying to be conscientious of our energy consumption and producing a wholesome healthy nutritious product for our community at large.

>> How is Christina eex peerns emblematic of your experience.

>> It's widespread.

No question that New York leads the nation in cost of doing business.

It's expensive between property taxes, energy costs, labor costs, environmental regulations.

There are other places in the country that are cheaper and better and more welcoming to do business.

We are lucky the governor so far has been pretty supportive of at least funding agriculture.

So they have put a mandate on a farmer, let's say for overtime expenses the state is paying for it.

She is trying to balance the philosophical needs of New York State residents and the need of agricultural industry.

>> And what you are referring to is the overtime threshold that was put in place.

Initially 60 hours now at 56 hours for 2024 and a plan to get it down to 40 hours a week by 2032 and with a credit covering the overtime costs up to 60 hours per week, you are our data person for the purpose of this conversation.

When it comes to labor cost what should we know about the experience of farmers in New York.

>> Statistics back up what Jeff and Christina are saying.

Every year the USDA statistical services does a survey of New York State farmers and some of the two key points that resonate with the farm community and one of the reasons why Cornell has been doing so much with economics lately, is that farmers have faced a 68% increase in their payroll costs in the past 10 years.

68% is a pretty remarkable jump.

When we look at net farm income.

Net farm income is increasing but so are production expenses.

And so when we look at the data, most recent census indicates that about 12,000 of our farmers are experiencing net gains, which is great but about 18,000 of our farms are experiencing net loss and that's largely because of increased in production costs frcht a Cornell perspective, one of the things we are trying to do is work harder on innovation digital agricultural, robotics, tools that farmers need to work smarter, more efficiently and make sure the payroll costs to be actualized in the farm operation.

>> Christina I think I saw you nodding your head out of the corner of my eye.

What is it that jewel Julie said that resonated with you.

>> When Julie talked about robotics, technology and rain, it's where we are headed and we are currently undergoing an expansion for a new egg processing room, cold storage and warehouse.

But in that cold storage, we have an actual robot that has been designed to stack and palletize eggs and the cost, the science and innovation behind it.

We need students and employees that have interest in technology and robotics and there are so many different opportunities that you might not think of agriculture in that avenue, but so that's why I got excited.

>> Have you named that robot?

>> Not yet but we'll come up with a good name.

>> Call it the David robot.

>> We can spit ball some ideas after the show.

More importantly, how did you go about making that investment in the technology?

Is that something where your business just had the wherewith all and the savings or the access to capital?

Or was that something where you were able to turn to some sort of government program?

>> That's a wonderful question.

And so it was actually-- >> Better than the robot name question?

>> Yeah it has been a long road to get to this decision from our family to go through an expansion.

And when I say it's been about an eight-year process, we navigated COVID.

Other costs and decided well maybe now is not the right time to make this investment and we also, like many other farms in New York, considered what it would be like to maybe possibly to dissolve or close our doors.

We had those tough conversations as a family.

And we eventually, things changed in the market.

Optimism increased and we were able to say this is the path forward.

One thing we have applied for is through the ARPA funds out of COVID relief, New York State and the resilient food system infrastructure grant, we applied for that.

We'll find out at the end of this month, maybe early October, if we are in a recipient for that.

It was up to $3 million.

And but with or without that grant, we will secure funding through ourselves or through farm credit or another bank and we'll tack this will there are 13 million project.

But as a young farmer, hearing those numbers, it's like how do you sleep at night knowing that you are taking on and leveraging this amount of debt, maybe even wanting to start a family and not know what the future holds.

>> Jeff, the idea of support for farmers, you mentioned and the talked imt tax credit.

What else is out there or has been adopted at the state level that makes a difference in maybe making those investments that Christina just talked about.

>> Tremendous investment from New York State in a refundable tax credit.

We have always had a tax credit you could take off on your taxes but the state wants to help farmers grow.

And so now for whatever, you know, however much you invested in that, you are technically going to get 20% back in a check from New York State, which is, you know, made to drive investment across the board.

It has been extremely helpful.

I think we are going to be very surprised by the numbers coming out of utilization.

What Christina is talking about is emblematic of the industry as a whole.

There is a great hollowing out of the middle-class of farms, that middle size of farms.

There is Christina's farm or other farms that are progressive or able to leverage, you know, and have the ability to leverage, taking out loans.

But there is a whole middle class of farms that are smaller farms.

The medium-sized farms, that don't have that ability.

Maybe don't have kids coming back to the farm to work and they're leaving the state or selling out.

So consolidation is very real.

Those farms are getting bought by larger forms and the small farms have income from off the farm, health insurance from, you know, someone being a teacher, for example.

So we are losing that middle sector of farms very rapidly in the state.

>> I would just offer this statistic again backing up Jeff's point, and one of the interesting things we see from the census data is that while the numbers of farms has declined in New York State, the number of actual farmers has stayed about the same through the past decade and that's a really interesting point because families are banding together.

They're making larger farms, consolidating their operations to be more efficient.

But yet we are losing that middle sector of New York State agriculture.

And so it's a little bit different.

One of the reasons for optimism, though, because for me the glass is always half full or more than half full, right?

One of the wonderful reasons for optimism about New York State is that unlike many of our other states, where half of the farmers are new or beginning farmers.

USDA says this is people who have been in agriculture for 10 years or less.

And I think that's a wonderful testament to the opportunities that exist in New York State.

And also, of course, to many of the opportunities that our state legislature and governor have offered through past years through programs like Jeff has talked about, tax advantages.

We also have a lot of training programs available for new farmers.

So at this same point we are seeing consolidation, we are seeing an increasing breadth and diversity of farms, particularly in our urban spaces and in areas close to the city, some of the fastest growing areas for New York State farms right now are actually urban and in places like Rockland County.

Very close to the consumer markets which is really interesting.

>> That's a bright picture you paint about the younger farmers, but it was my understanding that this still is a very older skewing population, when we think about our farmers.

>> Absolutely.

>> Do you have any perspective on if that trend is sustainable in the long run or do you feel like we are heading in a direction where the curve is sort of changing more towards younger generation that is actually there to supplant the older people?

>> I think we are seeing a mix.

You are seeing younger people give into small farm operations, younger people go into larger operations like Christina's farm undergoing an expansion, where again as Jeff alluded to, we are missing that middle tier of New York State agriculture, the tier that has been a little bit more stressed.

New York State, again, our population of younger people is in agriculturings actually younger than a lot of other states in terms of that emerging ownership class.

>> Christina I want to come back to the issue of the overtime threshold in New York because here I work at the state Capitol and one of the constant issues that we are talking about there is this overtime threshold and now there is the tax credit that people can apply for that's being rolled out.

And I'm curious whether you have had any firsthand experience dealing with the initial 60 hour a week threshold, now the 56 hour a week threshold or whether your operation has been spared from having to deal with this at all?

>> I would say our experience with the overtime tax credit, we have a department where it's more labor intensive in the barns and so we have had-- we do pay overtime over the 60 hours.

But we've also made adjustments to schedules or added an additional employee so that, you know, we stay around the 56-hour mark.

But with that overtime tax credit, which I joking their say that's a future Christina problem, because I will be or dealing with that paperwork toward the end of the year.

I know it's open now and that you can apply.

But I have heard from other farmers who have started the process, and they said just wait until the end of the year and do the paperwork once.

So that's my approach.

But if anyone here at the table has heard something different and would say Christina, no, maybe you want to start now,ly take that.

>> I think you are right, because they're growing pains.

Any new program there are growing pains at the state level with agencies trying to administer the program, farmers applying for the funding.

I think once we get that all straightened out, it will be, people will know what to expect and it will be easier so waiting probably is better right now.

>> One thing we did do is we switched to a new payroll platform that is easier and gives us more data and we are able to see things and get, you know, reports easier.

So that tracking overtime will be, we'll just had the data that we need when the time comes to submit it.

I think that would be one thing that we did.

>> Jeff mentioned growing pains.

I know there have been some efforts to tweak the implementation of this program legislatively.

What are some of the concerns that farmers have about the actual implementation of the overtime threshold and then qualifying for these tax credits?

>> We originally wanted to be reimbursed on a quarterly basis.

But the Department of Tax and finance's computer system is 50 years old, 60 years old.

And they don't have the ability to program, you know, make a program to do that.

So right now we are doing sort of a work around for two-time reimbursement a year, which I think it will eventually work out for now, but as we get down to 40 hours overtime threshold, it's going to be a lot more meaningful and a lot more important to get farmers there their reimbursement because they have to cash flow everything or take out a loan to get to pay for overtime in the meantime until they get reimbursed.

So there is a lot of complexities to it.

And I just think we are going have to work through it and people will have to get used to it.

Right now it's still new to everybody.

>> In addition to the labor costs facing farmers, there are a variety of other issues, and one that is facing both the agriculture industry and every sector around the state this is idea that we are going to have to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions in order to comply with state mandates.

And before we discuss that challenge in-depth, our producer spoke with Assembly agriculture chair Donna Lupardo, a Southern Tier democrat and here is what she had to say about this transition for farmers.

>> Unfortunately, they haven't really been given, in my opinion, the tools they need in order to succeed.

They very much want to produce bio gas through anaerobic digesters, for example, very expensive to install.

Very expensive to maintain.

And then it turns out they can use it on a farm but they have to sell it to out of state and sometimes in-state gas companies to be able to sell it back into the grid or back to consumers.

So we are not making it easy.

Also in the state CLCPA plan, bio gas is not considered renewable and therefore not eligible for any of the tax credits.

So on the one hand, they stand at the ready to be helpful on our aggressive climate goals, on the other hand, we haven't made it easy for them to participate successfully and do well economically in the process.

>> So, Christina, again, as someone who is actually living in this world, day to day, what are are you bracing for or already or dealing with when it comes to state's climate leadership and community protection act, 2019 law that set dramatic greenhouse gas emissions laws for New York through 2050.

Is this something that is impacting the way you do business or how you plan to do business in the future?

>> So, with our background in poultry, with laying hens, we have the poultry industry has been really on the cutting edge of being sustainable and reducing their carb footprint, their footprint on the environment.

I thing that that with our expansion and updating technologies, it will allow us to be more efficient and is the path that will help us achieve those goals.

Currently there is a lot of research being done on the life cycle analysis and so just there is more data than ever to help us have the tools and resources to make decisions.

>> And are you having to make any investments already in terms of efforts to reduce your emission footprint or is some thing that that is down the road?

>> That's down the road and I'm sure that Julyy can speak to hive-- hive Julie can speak to what is comping and the research at Cornell.

That's who we lean on, our researchers and what options we have as farmers will be the tools that we implement in our tool box.

>> Julie, she set you up.

>> Great segue Christina, thank you.

I think it's really important that we level set on what New York State agricultural greenhouse gas emissions are.

In the state, farmers represent 6% of our total greenhouse gas emissions, so not a whole lot of emissions come from on farm agricultural settings.

That doesn't mean that we don't have significant areas and ways where we can all improve.

And one of the things that's really important to know, too, when it comes to methane, which is a short lived climate pollutant, New York State agriculture does have a significant greenhouse gas emissions foot imprint of about 19% of our state's methane gas emissions comes from agriculture.

What does that mean?

From a Cornell perspective, we are focused on the incredible opportunity we have to make a difference in the overall climate arena; which is to drive down methane emissions from agricultural as steeply and rapidly as we can because we know that will have a significantly positive impact on global warming as a whole.

And we have incredible farm partnerships in New York State agriculture.

Right now we are actually deploying this technology called piralysis on a dairy farm in Cayuga County.

We have had a couple of field days.

Where farmers are taking manure, putting it through a thermal conversion process, creating energy and creating a product that can help offset Co2 emissions by sea questing the emissions in the soil.

We have two opportunities.

One to drive down methane emissions in particularly our dairy farms, that is half of agriculture, making sure we have the scientific tools right.

And the second opportunity is thinking about how do we sequester carbon in our soils.

I'm excited about some of the emerging research we have in our college that is going make farm operations like Christina and Jeff's members a really significant part of actually getting to net 0 by 2050.

>> And you mentioned dairy farms, which are billed as this circular system, something that has been the focus of some of the studies that Cornell.

Can you talk a little bit about what is going on in the dairy sector a little bit more.

>> The dairy sector is an incredibly innovative sector.

Right now we have several of our farms in New York State are partnering with us in this on farm research that we have where they are footprinting what their greenhouse gas emissions are so we can tell what nutrients are coming in, what nutrients are going out.

What are is expected emission levels so woo have a baseline in the state so we know when a farm adopts a technology improvement, a feed additive, a new way of handling the maneuver life hive the manure, we will able to detect if the farm is driving down their greenhouse gas emissions.

That is hugely important in New York State and important to the farmer because again we talked about economics.

From our perspective we have to find a really good way to have science validated tools and technologies that we can prove that a farmer can sell on the carbon market and get an economic payment in addition to I environmental benefit.

>> That's all very encouraging stuff.

Jeff, got any doom and gloom for us?

>> Too far fooft too fast.

Farmers have always been, you know, adopting practices to help the environment, no till plowing, for example, cover cropping, to capture carbon in the soil.

But there are elements of the CLCPA that are just practically unworkable for farmers.

I mean electrification, for example.

There is no commercially adoptable or electric tractor, for example.

>> Is is there a requirement to be using an electric tractor?

>> We are headed that way.

>> We just bought an electric tractor to use on our farm.

>> How much did it cost?

>> Less than $100,000.

I think it was 70,000.

I don't know if there was a research discount so I'm putting that out there but it's a monarch, it's a very small one.

It's going to work in specialty crops.

That's what we focus on at agritech is specialty crops.

We are going to test this piece of equipment, finding out what is the battery capacity but be that as it may, this is small scale technology that is available on a smaller scale setting now.

It's not the big combines that many of our members are using.

>> And you are still talking about... >> A check mark down to that one.

>> Still talking about testing battery life and all that.

>> Exactly.

>> We have a long way to go and we appreciate any research on it.

But farmers are constantly hit by so many different things in their life and to then have to worry about electrification on their farms or solar panels taking up very high quality farmland, which is also another issue.

I mean for every action there is a reak.

So if we want to electrify the state, we have to put solar panels some place, farmland is the easiest place to do it because it's flat and open and near interconnections and we are losing a lot of farmland in the state from that.

If we are talking about food security, access to land for the next generation or new farmers, they're working at counterpurposes sometimes.

>> What I want to talk about, the solar question and agrivoltaic specifically.

Thinking about the 2025 legislate session in Albany and the budget more particularly, there something you will be focusing on in order to get relief or to amend the restrictions or mandates facing farmers in this climate side of things?

>> It's too early to tell because we haven't gone through an official policy process for the year.

>> Give us a these.

>> It will be I think our members are concerned about the rapid act implementation for sure.

There is regulations that are being developed now that is for transmission lines and farmers, again, like solar panels, are concerned about where those transmission lines may be located; what that means for loss of crop lands on their farm or loss after built to cross into other areas on the farms.

Loss of control of their land because eminent domain could be a part of that.

And so if they don't want to sell their land, the state could possibly take it and that's a concern.

>> And I think about my friends Nate and Christie Williams in Onondaga County, Dutch hill maple, that are concerned about the rapid act and what that means for their families' operation and maple.

That's pertaining the windmills that could be 750 feet tall.

And so there is fear, there is unknown and they're just trying to gather information on what that could mean for them.

>> Well well, Julie, I know have you followed some of the efforts the agrivoltaic side, what it means to have solar producing efforts on the same land used for agriculture.

Is that that a wishful thinking that we are like betting on agrivoltaics are is this an area where there is meaningful potential?

>> Well, again, I always tend to lean towards the optimistic side of life.

But I also know that I am not directly farming, right?

Which makes our perspective a little bit different.

But, you know, I think the biggest challenge for us is the uncertainty.

Our role at Cornell is to really come up with better solutions for farmers to give them more certainty.

And so agrivoltaic is exciting to me.

I was at Rutgers.

They have one.

I was looking at their tractors, getting close to their solar arrays what they're doing at Rutgers.

Our desire at Cornell and we just planted our first trial of crops underneath solar panels in the Capital District area with a local solar developer so we should have results coming out.

One of the things that I'm really interested in doing on some of our research farms is to put elevated solar panels over fruit crops because when we have seen and heard from the farm community, what the statistics bear out, we are seeing ever more crop damage from the early season warmups followed by a late season frost.

Climate change is making the weather more variable.

So if we can conceive of a system where you can put elevated solar over perennial fruit crops, you can generate electricity and also continue to grow the crop.

Again I would never say that a local New York State apple farmer should do that right now because there is a lot of unknowns.

That's one of the reasons why you have Cornell, why you have a land grant, is so that we can make those experiments on our research farms and either fail or succeed but generate data that creates more certainty for people like Christina, not in this case for apples but there are equivalencies there.

>> Do you think the agrivoltaics will require some sort of culture change.

You would have to have farmers that are willing to embrace this new way of doing things.

>> If it's done well, absolutely.

It could be a powerful tool for dual use agriculture.

But we are not there yet right now we are trying to more the conversation from agrivoltaics being crazing sheep or having bees which is nice but that's not really true commercial agriculture.

We want to see something where Julie is talking where you can company locate apples, fruits, vegetables and crops, greens, and harvest them underneath those panels and the more you do that, the more expensive it becomes for the solar panels.

So it's easier for them to put something up and say here, grow some sheep but to make it work with true commercial agricultural, you are a long way from there.

>> So, Christina, we hear sometimes farmers are weighing the future of their land and they're saying well, you know, it's just a headache to keep these operations going.

I'm just going to sell my land.

I'm just going to become a large scale solar operation.

You talked about earlier being at a crossroads as a farm.

Was that ever something that was on your mind and how you might use your land in the future or sort of walk away from the agricultural side of things?

>> So where located next to a substation.

We have solar companies knocking on our door all the time.

The rates of rental are quite high compared to what would you get for rental of your farmland.

I know if my dad will watch this and be like absolutely not.

We really have never considered solar for our-- it doesn't fit what we need.

And our prime soils, and I could understand where a family hat maybe doesn't have the next next generation to take over or is looking for a way, a path forward for retirement, I can understand those challenges and those-- I'm shaking my hands under the table, the toil they might face, right?

And that's one of the things that's really beautiful about agriculture is that people have options and they have opportunity, and there are struggles.

But they have that, their private land owner rights, and so that's one thing Jeff can speak about more on the stance of New York Farm Bureau's policy.

That's one thing that I think is an option and it might fit for some farms and it might be small scale, right?

It doesn't have to be 3 hundreds of acres.

But I can understand why a family or a farm would make that decision.

You brought up the idea of the next generation which is a perfect transition for the show, so thank you.

I'm curious as we think about how we ensure that there are more young people who want to head into this career, what was it that was appealing for you because you know, you probably could have done anything.

You are smart.

So what was it that led to you this route?

>> So growing up, I was really interested-- I watched my dad be a Farm Bureau president.

I was interested in the grassroots possibilities of policy.

I went to SUNY esf and studied fiernl policy planning and law.

I thought I was going go off to Washington D.C. and change the world.

And then in college I said I'm a little burned out.

I don't know what I want to do.

So I took a stable option of ajob with a 401 k and health insurance and worked in the call center and did data entry and I was in a cubicle.

I was like, I don't know if I want to spend my life in a cubicle, growing up on a farm.

I always said I wasn't going to go back to the family farm.

Things change and I decided to go back and there has been a lot of opportunities for me to make my policy background and also be on the farm and fill out all this paperwork for USDA or FDA or navigate a speedy's permit so that we also have a wastewater treatment plant now or kfo, so how to help use my skill set and background to help take the farm to the next level, to the next generation of the challenges of regulations or-- I think the regulations have good intentions, right?

But with small operations, you only have so many people that can do the work.

And so we have a lot of people on farms that are wearing many hats, from mechanic to marketer to transportation logistics to animal care.

And so you take your hat and you switch them on and out and I think that there is a lot of ways that I use technology every day.

I have a touchscreen computer.

I work with a multimillion dollar machine.

I have people who are my co-workers who are looking for meaningful work.

They want to make an impact.

They want to play a role where it has a positive impact for them and also their community and I think producing food, no matter what type of food that is , gives people purpose and meaning in this world.

>> Well, Jeff, how do we attract people who don't necessarily have the background that Christina had, that familiarity with agriculture?

How do you bring in people who maybe have never thought about this as a career?

>> Yeah, well first of all, I spent last night with 30 Cornell students, who are part of the Cornell collegiate chapter of New York Farm Bureau and the excitement those kids have for making a contribution to agriculture is unpair parallel-- unparalleled.

They're in the pipeline.

I think one of the major ways we can bring people in is through the ffa programs all across the state.

Those are easily impressionable kids in their middle school and high school, who, if they can come in with no farm background and catch fire working with ffa and other students, on agricultural projects, learning all about anything from aqua culture to dairy farming, to any other agriculture pursuit.

The cool thing is the largest ffa high school chapter is John bound high school in Queens.

And they have 700 kids in that high school who are a member or part of the ffa program.

That's where we need to go.

Gulf warred LaGuardia community has a farming science program.

There is a pathway from John bound to two-year animal science program at LaGuardia and pathway to Cornell Cobleskill and other ag schools to finish off their degrees.

That is tremendously exciting for all of us because they bring another perspective to agriculture and they bring a lot of passion.

>> So Jeff actually said this far better than even I could have so thank you, Jeff.

I'll just share something really exciting about our student admissions this year, is that we had a 12% increase in admitted students who are now in our college who come from farm backgrounds, which is great.

So we are seeing incredible excitement.

Christina I know you didn't go but a lot of partnerships with SUNY esf.

We see students from farm backgrounds coming to study agricultural sciences at Cornell and other places which is wonderful but we also see incredible diversity in who is coming to study agricultural fields.

You know, back in the 70s, not so many of our urban kids came to our campus.

Now, in part because of the ffa program, pulling more and more of these really brilliant students into the agricultural and natural resources science field, we see a lot more kids coming-- I say kids, they're students, but they're all high schoolers.

>> Kids at this point.

>> I know.

>> I'm 37 and I still feel like they're kids now.

>> That excitement and enthusiasm is what I think keeps Cornell and certainly keeps me optimistic about the future of agriculture.

I also want to share, too, we are doing a lot more with workforce.

We are seeing particularly in Upstate and many of our dairy processing facilities, they're having a huge demographic shift.

Much like the farm community and forestry community, they're thinking how do I reach these students in high school who may not be college bound, which is also okay.

How do I reach them and get them interested in working in my facility because, again, huge retirements, rural youth retention is an issue in New York State.

We need to continue to focus on that.

We just started this wonderful boot camp with colleagues of mine from the dairy food science extension team actively pulling from BOCES programs, high school programs, they're running a week long session where they're training students how to make cheese, training them how to make ice cream.

Get them really excited about dairy products.

And then also partnering with local dairy manufacturers Upstate, Niagara co-op, burn dairy, Cayuga milk to do tours of their facilities so the students can see a place and a space for them in the future in New York State agriculture.

This is processing.

But it's always one field.

And so that's been a great joy to be reaching these students who might not consider agricultural careers and are now we are seeing some successful placement rates.

So it is toes get students more and more interested in agriculture and all the many different facets that we have.

>> And what about the next phase, Julie, when someone has actually taken the plunge to make a career in agriculture.

What sort of assistance is there whether it's technical or otherwise, to help them navigate that early phase as a new farmer?

>> Yeah, so we have a variety of different programs at Cornell.

Our Cornell Small Farms program is probably our flag ship online training course for new farmers.

We are focusing not just on agricultural skills, but also importantly business skills, right?

You know, quick books course is probably one of our most popular courses on our online program, followed quick quickly by mush roonl growing which is taking off at leaps and bounds.

And so, you know, we have a variety of training resources that are online.

We also do a whole ton of different educational activities.

I can think about it as upskilling, continual upskilling because you need to keep your skills sharp, everything from digital ag to field days.

These are all based in New York through our extension system.

We try our best to meet farmers where their needs are.

>> Jeff, there is also the idea of having a farm to begin your career on.

So what does the state need to do or is doing already that you think would make a difference to creating those opportunities?

>> It's very difficult, you know, with land prices being so high, especially, you know, in the Hudson Valley Long Island or even Syracuse, it's really tough to go and get land in order to do business.

So we are working on ways to maybe access tax cuts, access apprenticeships, you know, where you can buy into-- you work your way into a farm operation.

At this point we are sort of all of the above kind of effort because there is no one silver bullet.

>> And what about the idea of the capital infrastructure investment?

You talk about refundable tax credits but you still need to have access to financing to begin with and if you've got no track record, does state need to provide grants on that side of things?

Do we need to be provide something sort of loans that make a real difference?

>> There are some things that tinker around the edges at the state that help with that.

Perhaps favorable interest rates for loans through farm credit, for example.

Or other lenders, again, it's an all above thing.

>> Christina, what about the idea of a career ladder for the workforce so that the people who are maybe a laborer can then one day become the management?

Is that a reasonable expectation and is that something that farmers and farm operators should be taking on themselves?

>> Absolutely.

And I personally have taken Richard's workforce development classes for management and they're also offered in Spanish so I think that's a great resource.

New York has so many other great resources that help navigate that career ladder.

As you take on more challenges, you know, we have access to New York farm M.T.A.

for mental health.

And that's a big topic for agricultural and managers.

I think about the New York ag society, their ambassador program for 18-25 year olds.

They have a summer program and they meet at the forum in January and that's another opportunity for young ag professionals to have that opportunity to take tours or meet and mentor, be partnered with a mentor.

I think mentorship is a huge component of workforce development and agriculture.

I have used mentors through my career and my path.

I think about being involved New York Farm Bureau's farmers and ranchers or beginning farmer group that you share resources, you share opportunities, you share what you are learning about, what you've heard about, and then I've taken small farm courses at Cornell as well because, you know, sure, I grew up on a poultry farm, but I wanted to get-- you know, chicken anatomy or also the cost of, you know, as we dream about the future and the changes in agriculture, if I wanted to have a pasture raised flock with a chicken tractor that has solar panels on it and what would that cost be to take on that or have a business plan to propose to the older generation about.

I think this plot of land would be perfect for this and they giggle and they laugh and maybe some day Christina.

Hudson Kohler will have her chicken tractor with bluetooth management that can I check on the chickens from home and different things like that.

You know, I think what is so important is that we do have the younger generation, you know, now that I'm 35, I look to the optimism of the students that are in college or have maybe going back to college, right?

And because you can be a beginning farmer at any age and I think that's really important to also highlight.

We have people that are in their 60s going, I want to become a farmer and there are opportunities through USDA for beginning farmers.

>> I would just say if farms want and need to be the employer of choice wherever they are because worker retention attraction and retention is the name of the game.

It's so hard to get people to work on farms.

If you can find good people who work on farms and then provide them with the ladder to success from you foe, hourly to salary to management, and you trust them and they're good workers, that's the holy grail for farmers.

I mean these are local businesses just like Geddes mortgages and they just want to do the best thing they can for their workers.

>> I have to share, too, that the governor made a really exciting announcement this year in the budget.

And so we have some extra money through our agricultural education and outreach programs and we are really going to be focusing on the youth concept of career laddering.

The governor is hosting a conference in Albany in November.

Many of our kids throughout the state are actually going to this conserves.

We are super excited about this.

This is all high school students.

And from a diversity of different counties throughout the state, and we are going to be discussing some issues like how do we keep getting youth involved in agriculture.

We will be relying on people like Christina and Jeff to sit at different roundtables and talk to our students about their career paths.

It is going to be fun.

Can't wait for that.

>> We have been focusing largely on farm owners or operators, but Jeff, you talked about workforce.

And what do we need to resolve at the federal level with regard to our immigration policies to ensure that we have access to a migrant population that has been really the backbone of agriculture across the country?

>> For sure.

We have been working on immigration reform at the federal level for 30 years.

>> You are doing a great job.

[Laughter] >> Yeah.

>> Keep it up.

>> Next year will be the year.

Ah 2 a program, visa federal program for agriculture is super important for farmers.

Accept on the fruits and vegetables.

It's not yet adopted by the dairy industry, but that program has helped get generations of workers from Mexico, Jamaica and other places to New York State to work on farms at a very good rate, free housing, pretty much free transportation and they come back every year, bring their relatives.

The downside of that is it is extremely expensive for the employer to enter into and a lot of paperwork.

But a pathway to some kind of ability to stay in New York and work on farms is drastically needed, and we are continuing to push with exactly that.

>> What about the influx of asylum seekers we have seen in recent years?

There are hurdles they have to overcome to work legally in New York but this has been now a long process and some of these people may have cleared some of the hurdles.

>> 100%.

>> Is has that begun to impact the workforce in New York State.

>> It's starting to.

The ones with agricultural experience and have the clearance to work are making their way to Upstate New York, to Buffalo region, Central New York.

We are actually partnering with an initiative called the Ellis Island initiative.

And that's trying to get people who have come into the country gainfully employed because that's what they want to be, gainfully employed.

Farms, there is a tremendous opportunity for processing as well.

We've got a number of big projects coming up, the fair life milk project in Rochester, Great Lakes cheese south of Rochester and I think those are ripe opportunities to train people who are able to work and let them be contributors to New York State's society.

>> So Christina, we have a couple minutes left and I'm curious, as you said, 35-year-old in this business.

Do you feel optimistic about, say, the next five, 10, 15, 20 years?

This industry?

>> Absolutely.

I request say with full confidence I'm optimistic about the future of agriculture in New York and across the nation.

I have a network of friends across the State of Yowng farm young farmers that can say yes, we can continue to carry the torch and, you know, I think about what Commissioner ball always said, to leave it better.

And when you have that mindset about leaving it better, not only for the next generation, but the generations to come, I'm optimistic that we have the tools and the resources and the opportunity to continue to do business in New York.

>> I would go a step further.

A couple steps further and say we are well positioned in northeast to lead agriculture into the next century with the west and southwest being just totally bereft of water, that's-- water is the new economy and we will have the water and the markets for all along the east coast with New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington D.C., we have the markets and the ability to grow large scale with enough water and that's going-- will you see that shift over the next 25-30 years.

>> Absolutely.

>> So the siren call of the call centers is isn't luring you back to the beaches?

>> No, but you know, we have alarm monitoring on the farm so every time I hear it go off, I think about where I started.

But I think about where our conversation today started about where New York is strategically located on the east coast and I think Jeff just highlighted that , that we are close to Canada, we are close to New York City and all other major cities and we have water.

And so I think New York, people will be coming back to New York for our resources.

>> That's a pretty positive way to end things.

I don't want to risk asking any other questions that maybe go more negative.

Let's leave things there for today.

MY THANKS TO JULIA SUAREZ OF CORNELL UNIVERSITY, JEFF WILLIAMS OF THE NEW YORK FARM BUREAU, AND CHRISTINE KOHKLER ROM HUDSON EGG FARMS.

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