HELLO AND WELCOME TO "BEHIND THE WOMANMENT" I'M YOUR HOST Dr. JUHANNA ROGERS.

TONIGHT I'M HONORED TO INTRODUCE TO YOU AN AUTHOR, HISTORIAN, AND MUSEUM CURATOR GRECH GRETCHEN SORIN, GRETCHEN HAS SHARED THE STORIES OF OTHERS THROUGH EXHIBITIONS AT THE SMITHSONIAN, THE JEWISH MUSEUM AND THE NEW YORK STATE HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION.

NOW SHE IS JOINING ME TO SHARE HER OWN STORY.

SO INVITE YOUR FRIENDS OVER AND TELL THE FAMILY TO CLEAR THE CALENDARS BECAUSE "BEHIND THE WOMAN" IS ON AND YOU DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS EPISODE.

HI, GRETCHEN, WELCOME TO "BEHIND THE WOMAN."

I WAS SO-- I WILL SAY THE PBS TEAM AT WCNY WAS VERY EXCITED TO HAVE YOU ON.

>> THANK YOU.

>> YOUR WORK, YOUR EXHIBITS ACROSS THE STATE, FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, HAS REALLY MADE AN IMPACT ON SHARING STORIES.

SO I'M EXCITED TO BE SITTING HERE WITH YOU TO LEARN MORE ABOUT WHO YOU ARE AND HAIR SHARING WITH THE VIEWERS YOUR OWN STORY.

>> I LOVE DOING EXHIBITIONS.

THAT'S MY AREA OF MUSEUM WORK AND HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT IT TODAY.

>> NOW, BEFORE WE GET TO THAT EXACTLY, WHEN DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU WANTED TO BECOME A MUSEUM CURATOR?

>> I THINK IT WAS MY SENIOR YEAR OF COLLEGE.

I WENT TO RUTGERS IN NEW JERSEY AND I HAD A PROFESSOR, AN AMERICAN STUDIES PROFESSOR WHO SUGGESTED THAT PERHAPS I DIDN'T WANT TO BECOME A HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER IN HISTORY, BUT THAT MAYBE I WOULD LIKE TO GO INTO MUSEUM WORK.

I HAD ACTUALLY NEVER VOLUNTEERED IN A MUSEUM, NEVER WORKED IN A MUSEUM.

BUT MY PARENTS HAD TAKEN MY BROTHER AND I TO THE NEWARK MUSEUM ON SATURDAYS, AND WE LOVED GOING TO THAT MUSEUM.

IT'S ACTUALLY A WONDERFUL MUSEUM AND WE SENT A LOT OF TIME THERE AND I THOUGHT, YEAH, THAT MIGHT BE A GREAT CAREER CHOICE.

>> WELL, I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE NEWARK MUSEUM BECAUSE I'M FROM NEWARK, NEW JERSEY AND SPENT MANY ASATURDAYS THERE.

>> I WAS BORN IN NEWARK.

>> REALLY?

>> IS THAT WHERE YOU GROUP ALSO?

>> I GREW UP IN THE NEW JERSEY SUBURB IN CLONIA.

BUT SPENT A LOT OF TIMES AT THE NEWARK MUSEUMS.

>> WHAT I REMEMBER ABOUT THE NEWARK MUSEUM, IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE THOSE SATURDAYS WITH YOUR PARENTS, WHEN THEY BRING YOU TO THESE SPACES, HOW INSTRUMENTAL THEY CAN BECOME IN YOUR LIFE.

I'M THINKING ABOUT THAT, BECAUSE WHEN YOU SAID IT, I IMMEDIATELY WENT BACK TO TIMES WHEN I GOT TO TOUR THE VALENTINE HOUSE.

>> THEY HAVE JUST REDONE IT, BY THE WAY.

IT'S INCREDIBLE.

IT'S INTERESTING, THOSE ALTERNATIVE EDUCATION SPACES MAKE A HUGE DIFFERENCE FOR A LOT OF KIDS MUSEUMS REALLY MATTER IN A LOT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.

>> YOU GET TO BE PART OF THAT.

WHEN YOU THIS I ABOUT THAT LAST YEAR OF COLLEGE, AND THE PROFESSOR THAT PULLED YOU ASIDE, DID YOU TAKE THAT ADVICE RIGHT AWAY?

OR WAS IT SOMETHING THAT JUST STUCK OUT TO YOU AND YOU JUST CAME BACK TO AT A LATER TIME?

WHAT HAPPENED ONCE YOU CROSSED THE STAGE?

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THERE WEREN'T A LOT OF PEOPLE OF COLOR WORKING IN MUSEUMS.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT AT THE TIME.

I APPLIED TO GRADUATE SCHOOL AND THE GRADUATE SCHOOL THAT MOST ATTRACTED ME WAS THE ONE IN COOPERSTOWN, EVEN THOUGH I HAD GOT INTO GRADUATE SCHOOL AT GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY IN WASHINGTON D.C.

WHEN I WENT TO COOPERSTOWN FOR THE INTERVIEW, THEY REALLY SPOILED ME.

I MEAN THEY SPENT A LOT OF TIME TALKING TO ME AND RECRUITING ME.

AND SO I DECIDED TO GO TO COOPERSTOWN.

>> AND YOU HAVE CREATED A CAREER FROM THE BASIS OF THAT TIME IN COOPERSTOWN.

DID YOU LEAVE AND COME BACK OR YOU HAVE BEEN THERE SINCE YOU LEFT FOR GRAD SCHOOL?

>> NO, I WENT TO GRADUATE SCHOOL AND THEN I WENT AND WORKED.

I WORKED AS A MUSEUM EDUCATOR.

I WORKED AS A MUSEUM DIRECTOR.

AND THEN WHILE I WAS RAISE MIEG -- WHEN I WAS RAISING MY CHILDREN, I FREELANCED.

I WAS A CONSULTANT FOR 20 YEARS AND DURING THAT TIME I WORKED FOR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS ALL OVER THE NORTHEAST AND MIDWEST.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY I GOT THE JOB WHEN THE JOB IN COOPERSTOWN OPENED, I HAD VARIED EXPERIENCE IN ALL KINDS OF MUSEUMS.

AND I THINK THAT WAS THE THING THAT GOT ME THE JOB IN COOPERSTOWN.

>> BECAUSE NOW YOU CAME AS A STUDENT BUT NOW YOU ARE FACULTY.

>> NOW I'M THE DIRECTOR OF THE PROGRAM.

>> DIRECTOR OF THE PROGRAM FOR GRADUATE STUDENTS.

DO YOU SPOIL THE STUDENTS WHEN THEY... >> IT'S A VERY UNUSUAL GRADUATE EXPERIENCE BECAUSE IT'S VERY EXPERIENCE USUALLY.

-- EXPERIENTIAL.

YOU DON'T SPEND THE DAY SITTING IN THE CLASSROOM.

YOU MAY BE OUT LOOKING AT ARCHITECTURE, LOOKING AT LANDSCAPES, WORKING IN OTHER INSTITUTIONS.

WE HAVE A LOT OF FIELD TRIPS TO MUSEUMS SO IT'S NOT JUST SITTING IN A CLASSROOM OR IN A LIBRARY ALL DAY.

>> RIGHT.

YOU ARE CURATING THE EXPERIENCES.

SO I'M FASCINATED, PARTLY BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT BRIEFLY THESE SATURDAYS YOU SPENT AT THE NEWARK MUSEUM AND THEN THIS PERSON THAT YOU ENCOUNTERED, FACULTY MEMBER YOU ENCOUNTERED IN YOUR SENIOR YEAR THAT LED YOU TO COOPERSTOWN.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN YOUR YEARS AS A CONSULTANT OR EVEN UP UNTIL NOW, HAS BEEN SOME OF THE WORK THAT YOU ARE MOST PROUD OF?

>> I GUESS I STARTED OUT DOING, YOU KNOW, SMALL COLLECTIONS PROJECTS, AND VERY EARLY ON I STARTED WORKING WITH PEOPLE WHO PERHAPS DIDN'T HAVE AS MUCH ACCESS TO MILLIONS-- NOT AS MUCH ACCESS TO MUSEUMS.

I WORKED AT THE HERKIMER HOME HISTORIC SITE AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES.

PEOPLE WHO HAD DOWN SYNDROME.

I WORKED WITH SOME PEOPLE, AT THAT TIME THERE, WERE PEOPLE FROM UTICA PSYCHIATRIC THAT CAME TO VISIT AND I GOT VERY INTERESTED IN HOW MUSEUMS COULD BROADEN THEIR AUDIENCES, HOW WE COULD MAKE MUSEUMS MORE ACCESSIBLE TO BROADER AUDIENCES AND SO I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S SOMETHING I BRING TO THE COOPERSTOWN GRADUATE PROGRAM AND TO MY TEACHING.

BUT I'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME WORKING ON EXHIBITIONS THAT ADDRESS AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY , WOMEN'S HISTORY, THE HISTORY OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TRADITIONALLY LEFT OUT OF HISTORICAL STORIES.

AND THAT'S, I THINK WHAT I'M MOST PROUD OF.

>> AWESOME.

LETTERS TAKE A-- LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT HOW GRETCHEN IS PREPARING FUTURE GENERATIONS TO AMPLIFY THE VOICES OF OTHERS THROUGH ART, HISTORY AND MUSEUMS.

>> I THINK ART HAS THE POWER TO REALLY EXCITE PEOPLE AND STIMULATE PEOPLE AND REALLY GET PEOPLE THINKING AND BE PROVOCATIVE WITHOUT MAKING PEOPLE ANGRY.

THIS WAS A CLASS PROJECT, THIS EXHIBITION.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DO IN THE COOPERSTOWN GRADUATE PROGRAM IS WE DO REAL PROJECTS, NOT THEORETICAL PROJECTS.

AND I WAS TALKING WITH MARK GOLDEN, OF GOLDEN ARTIST COLORS AND WE WERE CHATTING ABOUT HIS GALLERY AND I PROPOSED, PERHAPS WE COULD WORK TOGETHER COLLABORATIVELY ON A PROJECT.

>> THE IDEA FOR THE SHOW ACTUALLY CAME FROM MARK GOLDEN.

AT THE TIME I WAS A STUDENT AT COOPERSTOWN GROD WATT PROGRAM AND WORKING WITH GRETCHEN SORIN AND HE APPROACHED THE PROGRAM WITH THIS IDEA AND YOU KNOW, I AM INDICATE FROM THE WAY HE EXPLAINED IT.

IT CAME FROM THINKING THROUGH ALL OF THE TURMOIL AND TENSION THAT HAS SURROUNDED THE LAST COUPLE OF ELECTIONS, THE ELECTION CYCLES, THE RECENT, YOU KNOW, SLEW OF SUPPRESSION AND LAWS THAT HAVE SUPPRESSED VOTES IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.

AND HE REALLY WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, JOIN THE CONSERVATION.

>> THE STUDENTS WORKED HARD TO SELECT THE ART AND SELECT THE ARTISTS AND TO EVALUATE THE ART AND THAT'S PART OF THE COURSE, RIGHT?

TO GO OUT AND FIGURE OUT HOW DO DO YOU THAT?

IF YOU ARE PUTTING TOGETHER AN EXHIBITION, HOW DO YOU FIND THE ARTISTS?

HOW DO YOU SELECT THE ART?

HOW DO YOU HANG THE ART SO THAT YOU ARE NOT HANGING A VERY SMALL PIECE NEXT TO A VERY LARGE PIECE, SO THAT THE COLORS LOOK WELL TOGETHER AND SO EVERYTHING IS HUNG IN A WAY THAT MAKES SENSE AND THAT TELLS A STORY.

AFTER PEOPLE HAVE GONE TO COLLEGE OR THEY FINISH THEIR EDUCATIONS, THE PLACES THAT WE CAN GO TO CONTINUE LEARNING ARE MUSEUMS.

THEY'RE KIND OF LIKE UNIVERSITIES FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

AND THE PARADIGM HAS REALLY SHIFTED IN MUSEUMS FROM OBJECTS TO COMMUNITY NEED AND COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS.

SO NOW MUSEUMS ARE STARTING TO LOOK AT THEIR COMMUNITIES, THE COMMUNITIES IN WHICH THEY FIND THEMSELVES AND SAY WHAT ARE THE NEEDS HERE?

WHAT IS MISSING?

WE REALLY WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT THESE ARTISTS BUT ALSO TO GET THEM TO RESPOND AND TO THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN DO IN ORDER TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO VOTE.

I THINK IN UPSTATE NEW YORK, WE DON'T REALLY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH VOTER SUPPRESSION.

BUT I THINK IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, THERE HAVE BEEN ATTEMPTS TO ROLL BACK THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

AND THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR ALL OF US, NOT JUST FOR THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN THOSE AREAS.

IN A DEMOCRACY, THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS PARAMOUNT.

WE TEND TO HAVE HUGE VOTER TURNOUT DURING PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, BUT IN OFF YEAR ELECTIONS, A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T BOTHER TO GO TO THE POLLS.

I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE VOTE EVERY YEAR, THAT WE VOTE EVERY ELECTION.

AND I THINK IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT THAT PEOPLE AGITATE, TALK TO THEIR LEGISLATORS, MAKE SURE THAT THEIR LEGISLATORS ARE AWARE HOW IMPORTANT THEY FEEL VOTING IS AND THAT THEY GET-- AND THAT THEY SUPPORT VOTING RIGHTS THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES.

>> THAT WAS POWERFUL.

>> THANK YOU.

>> I'M SITTING HERE AND LOOKING AT THE WORK THAT YOU ARE CREATING AND IT MAKES ME WANT TO ASK-- I'VE ASKED YOU WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN MOST PROUD OF, BUT IN SEEING THAT, AND SEEING YOUR STUDENTS ENGAGE IN THE OPPORTUNITY THAT YOU ARE LEVERAGING FOR THEM, MAKES ME WANT TO ASK WHAT WERE YOU THINKING ABOUT AS YOU WATCHED?

>> ONE OF THE MOST WONDERFUL THINGS ABOUT TEACHING IS THAT YOU CREATE THIS WHOLE BODY OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THEY ARE THEN GOING TO ENGAGE THEIR COMMUNITIES.

AND THAT IS, I THINK, ONE OF THE MOST WONDERFUL THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AS FACULTY MEMBERS.

MUSEUMS ARE CHANGING DRAMATICALLY.

THEY'RE LOOKING AT IMPORTANT ISSUES AND HOW THEY CAN HELP GET PEOPLE INVOLVED.

HOW CAN MUSEUMS HELP PEOPLE TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THE THINGS THAT WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT BECAUSE WE WANT TO YELL AT EACH OTHER.

>> RIGHT, AND AS I WAS LOOKING AT SOME OF THE ARTWORK AND IMAGERY STANDING BEHIND YOUR STUDENT OR EVEN YOURSELF WHEN YOU ARE TALKING, I'M THINKING, PARTICULARLY IN 2024 AS WE ARE LOOKING AT ANOTHER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION HOW THAT PIECE OF ART, THE OPPORTUNITY YOU HAD AND THE STUDENTS IN THE CLASSROOM, FROM THE FOLKS THAT ATTENDED, ALSO ARE SPARKING SOMETHING IN THEM IN REGARDS TO VOTING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.

AND I'M CURIOUS HOW DO YOU CHALLENGE STUDENTS TODAY TO CREATE AND DO IT IN A WAY-- I DON'T WANT TO USE THE TERM PROVOCATIVELY BUT CREATE WORKS THAT PROVOKING PEOPLE TO HAVE CONSERVATIONS?

CONVERSATIONS THAT THEY MAY FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH OTHERWISE.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I'M NOT SURE I KNOW THE ANSWER TO IT.

BUT.

[LAUGHTER] >> IT SEEMS LIKE YOU DID IN THAT CASE.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE DID WAS WE ASKED OUR STUDENTS TO GO OUT AND LOOK AT ART.

JUST LOOK AT THE ART OF YOUNG ARTISTS.

AND MARK GOLDEN, WHO IS THE HEAD OF GOLDEN ARTIST COLORS, WAS INSTRUMENTAL REALLY IN THIS ENTIRE PROCESS BECAUSE HE FUNDED IT.

YOU KNOW, HE PUT SOME-- >> THANK YOU, MARK.

>> I KNOW.

HE PUT SOME MONEY BEHIND IT.

AND HE PUT A EXIT COMMITMENT BEHIND IT TO THE WHOLE IDEA OF VOTING RIGHTS, SO YES, THANK YOU, MARK.

JUST HAVING THE STUDENTS GO OUT AND TALK TO ARTISTS AND LOOK AT DIFFERENT, LOOK AT ART AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WE DIDN'T JUST LOOK AT ART IN NEW YORK STATE.

WE LOOKED AT ART ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND TALKED TO ARTISTS AND LISTENED TO THEM.

I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS LISTENING.

LISTENING TO PEOPLE AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE GET OUR STUDENTS TO DO-- WE DO A LOT WITH ORAL HISTORY.

ONE OF MY PROFESSORS, WILL WALKER, TEACHES AN ORAL HISTORY CLASS AND HE IS TEACHING PEOPLE HOW TO LISTEN.

WE THEY'D TO LEARN IN THIS COUNTRY HOW TO LISTEN TO OTHER PEOPLE AND NOT JUST WANT TO TALK BUT LISTEN.

LISTENING IS SO IMPORTANT.

>> YEAH, AND IT'S POWERFUL BECAUSE AS YOU ARE DESCRIBING THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED-- I'M THINKING ABOUT WHAT IT TAKES TO MAKE ART.

AND SOMETIMES FOR THOSE OF US THAT ARE NOT CURATING THOSE SPACES, WHEN I HEAR YOU JUST DESCRIBING THAT PROCESS, RIGHT, I'M THINKING OF MARK, THE INVESTOR BUT ALSO THE PROCESS OF LISTENING.

GOING OUT ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

IF YOU HAD SOMETHING TO SAY IF REGARDS TO THE COMMUNITY, THE VIEWERS THAT ARE WATCHING, AND HOW WE CAN DO A BETTER JOB OF SUPPORTING THE WORK THAT YOU ARE DOING, THE WORK YOUR STUDENTS ARE AIMING TO DO, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU THINK-- >> EL WITH, YOU KNOW, ART IS ESSENTIAL AND WE HAVE REACHED A POINT IN THIS COUNTRY WHERE WE DON'T THINK ART IS ESSENTIALLY ANYMORE.

AND I THINK JUST VIEWING MUSEUMS AND ART AND WHEN I SAY ART, I THINK OF IT BROADLY.

I THINK OF DANCE.

I THINK OF MUSIC.

I THINK OF VISUAL ART.

SO THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT GIVE LIFE TO A COMMUNITY.

BUT THEY ALSO SUPPORT ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT.

I MEAN IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT FROM A FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE, MUSEUMS ARE THE PLACES THAT PEOPLE GO DURING THEIR LEISURE TIME AND WHEN PEOPLE GO TO MUSEUMS, THEY BUY FOOD, THEY BUY HOTEL ROOMS, YOU KNOW, THEY BUY GASOLINE.

SO THEY ARE ECONOMIC DRIVERS.

AND I THINK WE NEED TO SUPPORT THE ARTS JUST AS MUCH AS WE SUPPORT... >> ANYTHING ELSE.

>> TECHNOLOGY OR YES, ANYTHING ELSE THAT LEGISLATORS PUT THEIR MONEY INTO.

IT WOULD BE WONDERFUL IF THE STATE GOVERNMENT PUT MORE MONEY INTO THE ARTS.

>> INTO THE ARTS, YEAH ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK ABOUT AS, YOU KNOW, WEARING MANY HATS THAT I WEAR, BUT BEING AN ARTSIST AND THIS IDEA OF ALLOWING ART TO SURVIVE AND LIVE IN OUR COMMUNITY IN A WAY THAT IT DIDN'T NECESSARILY VIEW IT AS A PASTIME BUT AS ESSENTIAL.

>> IT CREATES THOSE CONVERSATIONS THAT WE CAN'T HAVE WITHOUT YELLING AT ONE ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, IT ALLOWS US TO TALK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU GO TO A MUSEUM EXHIBITION, YOU SEE THAT MUSEUMS ARE STARTING TO ADDRESS ISSUES AROUND CLIMATE.

YOU SEE MUSEUMS STARTING TO ADDRESS ISSUES AROUND WOMEN'S RIGHTS, AROUND VOTING, AROUND ALL OF THE ISSUES THAT WE, IN A DEMOCRACY, NEED TO TALK ABOUT.

>> WHERE DO WE TALK ABOUT THOSE ISSUES, WHERE CAN PEOPLE ENGAGE WITH THOSE IDEAS.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT'S IN A MUSEUM.

>> IN A MUSEUM.

THIS TAKES ME BACK TO ONE OF THE FIRST POINTS THAT YOU MADE.

HOW DO WE OPEN ACCESS BECAUSE EVEN AS I THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW MUSEUM SPACES CAN HOLD OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE COMMUNITY TO THINK ABOUT THEM, I GO BACK, YOU KNOW, TO THINKING ABOUT MUSEUMS THAT I'VE WALKED INTO AND HAVE FELT LIKE OH DO I BELONG HERE?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE WORK ON A LOT IS HOW DO WE MAKE MUSEUMS MORE ACCESSIBLE?

HOW DO WE MAKE PEOPLE FEEL WELCOME?

AND HOW DO WE MAKE PEOPLE FEEL WELCOME, THE FRONT LINE PEOPLE BECAUSE THE PEOPLE THAT WELCOME YOU TO THE MUSEUM, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE THE GUARDS, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE WELCOMING YOU WHEN YOU WALK IN THE DOOR, THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT NEED TO BE WELCOMINGMENT WELCOMING.

IT STARTS TOP DOWN AND BOTTOM UP AT THE SAME TIME.

THE MUSEUM HAS TO BE COMMITTED TO WELCOMING PEOPLE AND MAKING PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE.

AND THEY'VE GOT TO MAKE IT-- THEY'VE GOT TO MAKE IT EASY.

THEY HAVE TO MAKE-- AND IT BEGINS WITH HOW DO YOU GET TO THE MUSEUM.

HOW DOES THE MUSEUM, WHAT IS THE ARCHITECTURE LIKE?

IS THERE ART IN THE FRONT OUTSIDE?

THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF THINGS THAT MAKE A BUILDING FEEL COMFORTABLE AND WHAT KINDS OF PROGRAMS DO THEY DO?

AND WHOSE STORIES DO THEY TELL?

DOES EVERYONE FEEL THAT THEIR STORY IS INCORPORATED INTO THE MUSEUM'S EXZ BIGSES AND PROGRAMS >> I'M READY TO SIGN UP FOR THE CLASS.

ALMOST COMING TO AN END, IT'S OVER.

TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT YOUR LIFE LOOKS LIKE OUTSIDE OF WORKING WITH STUDENTS.

ARE YOU STILL CURATING OR DO YOU MAKE ART AS WELL?

>> I WORK ON SEVERAL PROJECTS.

RIGHT NOW I'M WORKING ON SOME RESEARCH.

I DO A LOT OF TALKING ABOUT MY BOOK, DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

AFRICAN-AMERICAN TRAVEL AND THE ROAD TO CIVIL RIGHTS.

I SPEND A LOT OF TIME STILL DOING PROGRAMS AROUND THE BOOK.

AND THE DOCUMENTARY.

>> BECAUSE THAT WAS A DOCUMENTARY THAT WAS SHOWN NATIONALLY ON PBS.

>> IT IS STILL AVAILABLE ON PBS.

>> CHECK OUT HER DOCUMENTARY AND IS THIS SOMETHING THAT EXPANDS THE NARRATIVE OF THE GREEN BOOK?

OR SOMETHING THAT-- THE GREEN BOOK WAS THE STARTING POINT FOR THE BOOK.

IT'S WHAT I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT WHEN I STARTED WRITING THE BOOK.

THE DOCUMENTARY, WHICH WAS DONE BY RICK BURNS WHO IS AN INCREDIBLE TALENT, CREATIVE DOCUMENTARIAN, REALLY, YOU KNOW, TAKES OFF ON SEVERAL DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE BOOK.

BUT IT REALLY INVITES PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN IS AND THE AUTOMOBILE AND WHAT THE AUTOMOBILE MEANT IN AFRICAN-AMERICAN HISTORY AND HOW AFRICAN-AMERICANS CONTINUE TO BE STOPPED BY DISPROPORTIONATELY BY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

>> WHEN I MENTIONED GREEN BOOK, I IMAGINE THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE LIKE WHAT IS THAT?

AND WHEN HOPEFULLY IN SOME OF WHAT YOU SAID IT BECOMES EVIDENT, RIGHT, THAT SPACE OF HOW TRAVELING AS AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN REALLY WAS SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES STRATEGY AND INTENTIONALITY BECAUSE THERE WERE SPACES THAT WE COULD BE AND COULD NOT.

>> BUT WHEN YOU SAY WHAT IS THE GREEN BOOK?

WHAT IS THAT?

THAT WAS MY FIRST REACTION TO IT.

I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE GREEN BOOK WAS.

A COLLEAGUE OF MINE HANDED ME A GREEN BOOK YEARS AGO BEFORE THE FILM GREEN BOOK AND SAID DO YOU KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THIS AND I SAID ABSOLUTELY NOT.

HAVE I NO IDEA WHAT IT IS.

IT WAS THAT CURIOSITY ABOUT THE GREEN BOOK THAT GOT ME INTERESTED IN DOING SOME RESEARCH ON IT.

AND ULTIMATELY, IT BECAME MY DISSERTATION AND THEN IT BECAME A TRADE BOOK, HISTORY BOOK.

BUT I WAS FASCINATED BY THIS IDEA OF THE AUTOMOBILE AND WHAT THE AUTOMOBILE MEANT TO AFRICAN-AMERICANS AND ALSO HOW THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED WITHOUT THE AUTOMOBILE.

IT COULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IN THE 1960S WITHOUT THE AUTOMOBILE.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE BOYCOTTS, THE MONTGOMERY BUS BOYCOTT, MARTIN LUTHER KING AND THE LEADERS OF THE BUS BOYCOTT BOUGHT A FLEET OF CARS TO DRIVE PEOPLE TO WORK BECAUSE PEOPLE COULDN'T GET TO WORK.

IF THEY STOPPED TAKING THE BUSES, THEY COULDN'T GET TO WORK.

IF THEY COULDN'T GET TO WORK, THEY WOULD BE FIRED SO THEY BOUGHT A FLEET OF CARS AND THEY USED THOSE CARS TO PICK PEOPLE UP AND DRIVE THEM TO WORK.

WITH AUTOMOBILES.

THAT'S KEY TO MAKING THE BUS BOYCOTTS SUCCESSFUL.

AND NOT JUST THE MONTGOMERY BOYCOTT BUT BOYCOTTS IN OTHER CITIES AS WELL.

AND THEN IF YOU CAN IMAGINE, LEADERS OF THE MOVEMENT FLYING INTO SOUTHERN CITIES, FLYING INTO BIRMINGHAM, FLYING INTO MONTGOMERY.

THEY NEEDED TO GET FROM THE AIRPORT TO THE LOCATION OF AND YOU COULDN'T DO THAT WITHOUT THE CABSES AND THE CABS WERE SEGREGATED SO THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT WAS BY TAKING THIS NEW FANG WILLED THING CALLED A RENTAL CAR.

AND THEY RENTED CARS AT THE AIRPORT AND WERE ABLE THEN TO DRIVE TO WHERE THEY NEEDED TO GO.

SO YOU NEEDED THE AUTOMOBILE MANIES THE PEOPLE THAT WERE GOING AROUND REGISTERING VOTERS, HOW DO YOU DO HAT IN A COUNTY?

YOU CAN'T DO IT ON NOT FOOT.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CAR.

>> AND THE CORD FACE OF SUCH.

THAT IS FASCINATING.

IF THERE IS REALLY, QUICKLY BECAUSE WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME AND THERE IS SO MUCH MORE TO TALK ABOUT.

FOR THOSE THAT ARE INSPIRED BY WHAT YOU JUST SHARED WITH US, HOW CAN THEY, OUTSIDE OF WATCHING YOUR DOCUMENTARY, GET IN CONTACT WITH YOU OR CONNECT MORE WITH YOUR WORK?

>> WELL THEY CAN READ THE BOOK.

>> RIGHT.

READ THE BOOK, WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY.

>> WATCH THE DOCUMENTARY.

YEAH, I THINK THOSE ARE TWO REALLY GOOD WAYS OF LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT AND ABOUT THE AUTOMOBILE.

AND READING ABOUT STORIES THAT RELATE TO THE AUTOMOBILE.

>> THANK YOU GRETCHEN FOR JOINING ME TODAY TO SHARE YOUR STORY AND SHOWING US ALL THE IMPACT THAT ART HISTORY, AUTOMOBILES CAN HAVE ON A COMMUNITY.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THIS EPISODE AGAIN OR WATCH PAST SEASONS OF THE SHOW, GO TO WCNY.ORG/"BEHIND THE WOMAN."

NEXT TIME JOIN ME AS I SIT DOWN WITH BANKING TRAIL BLAZER MARY INDICATE LOFTIS TO LEARN HOW SHE IS PROVIDING FINANCIAL FEMINISM AS THE PRESIDENT OF IMPRESSIA BANK.

I'M Dr. JUHANNA ROGERS AND ON BEHALF OF THE "BEHIND THE WOMAN" TEAM, THANK YOU FOR WATCHING.