A VICIOUS BEATING IN A STATE PRISON.

SHOULD MARCY CORRECTIONAL BE CLOSED?

DONALD TRUMP EYES GREENLAND AND THE PANAMA CANAL.

AND CONSERVATIVES WIN-- NO MORE FACT CHECKERS AT FACEBOOK.

STAY TUNED.

IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME THIS WEEK WE HAVE SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, TY SEIDULE FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE, BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY AND JENNIFER STROMER-GALLEY FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

A GROUP OF NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATORS IS PUSHING TO CLOSE THE STATE PRISON IN MARCY AFTER GUARDS VICIOUSLY BEAT INMATE ROBERT BROOKS, WHO DIED HOURS LATER.

THE BEATING WAS RECORDED ON BODY CAMERAS.

OTHER INMATES HAVE ACCUSED GUARDS AT THE MARCY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY OF SEVERE, UNPROVOKED BEATINGS, AND SAY THERE IS A CULTURE OF BRUTALITY IN THE NEW YORK PRISON SYSTEM.

THE F-B-I AND THE STATE HAVE OPENED CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS.

BEN, HAS NEW YORK TURNED A BLIND EYE TO SYSTEMIC ABUSE IN THE PRISON SYSTEM?

>> NO, THIS ISN'T SPECIFIC TO NEW YORK.

DOCTORS HAVE BEEN STUDYING THIS SINCE 1971.

HE INFAMOUSLY RAN THE STANFORD EXPERIMENT, PRISON EXPERIMENT WHICH INVOLVED 24 WHITE MALES ALL FROM MIDDLE-CLASS, NO CRIMINAL RECORDS, NO PSYCHOLOGICAL RECORDS.

AND IT WAS A DUMPSTER FIRE.

BASICALLY WHAT HE HAS FOUND OVER HIS YEARS OF STUDY BECAUSE HE STUDIED IN AND SAW IT IN AFGHANISTAN, IS THAT ORDINARY PEOPLE CAN COMMIT EVIL WHEN PLACED IN SPECIFIC SITUATIONAL CONTEXT WHERE FACTORS LIKE POWER DYNAMICS, DEHUMANIZATION AND GROUP PRESSURES ARE ALL IN PLACE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE SAW.

>> SO THIS IS A PROBLEM THEN IN PRISONS ALL OVER, THIS SORT OF CULTURE OF BRUTALITY?

>> IT CAN BE A RECIPE FOR PROBLEMS IF ONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE NOT ADDRESSED.

IN PARTICULAR, DEHUMANIZATION.

THAT'S A BIG ONE THAT YOU HAVE CONTROL OVER THAT YOU ARE TREATING THEM WITH RESPECT BECAUSE THEY ARE PEOPLE.

WHEN YOU START TREATING OTHER PEOPLE LIKE ANIMALS AND YOU HOLD THEM LIKE THAT, YOU CARRY THEM, YOU TALK TO THEM LIKE THEY'RE A THING REGARDS THAN A HUMAN BEING, THAT'S WHERE THE WHEEL FALLS OFF.

SO DO I THINK IT IS SPECIFIC TO THIS PRISON?

THERE HAVE BEEN REPORTS IN THIS PRISON.

SO THERE MAY BE A CULTURAL ASPECT THAT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, SEEING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS AS HUMAN BEINGS IS THE NUMBER ONE THING.

>> SO INMATES SAY, TY, INMATES IN MARCY THAT THERE WAS A BEAT-UP SQUAD.

SOD THAT PRISON BE CLOSED AS LEGISLATORS WANT?

>> I HAVE NO IDEA.

WHAT I KNOW ABOUT PRISONS IS REALLY, REALLY SMALL.

BUT I DO KNOW THAT THERE ARE 52 FACILITIES IN THE CORRECTION SYSTEM OF NEW YORK.

17,000 EMPLOYEES, 30,000 INCARCERATED PEOPLE.

I THINK THEY NEED TO LOOK AT THIS IN A HOLISTIC WAY.

BUT 60% OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT COME TO THE NEW YORK INSPECTOR GENERAL ARE ABOUT THE PRISON.

SO I THINK THE IDEA OF HAVING AN OVER ARCHING REFORM SYSTEM OF LOOKING AT THIS, A COMMISSION TO LOOK OVER ARCHINGLY IS THE WAY TO GO.

I AGREE PRISONS ARE ALWAYS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM.

I CAN'T THINK OF A JOB HARDER THAN BEING A PRISON GUARD BUT I DO THINK, AT LEAST IN NEW YORK, WE HAVEN'T PRIVATIZED THE PRISONS WHICH MANY SOUTHERN STATES HAVE DONE OR INCREDIBLY CRUEL THINGS LIKE MAKING SURE THERE IS NO AIR CONDITIONING LIKE THE TEXAS SYSTEM DOES.

I THINK THE WAY WE TREAT THE INCARCERATED PEOPLE SHOWS OUR LACK OF HUMANITY.

>> THE IDEA OF DOING MORE INVESTIGATIONS IS USEFUL BUT NOT ENOUGH.

THERE HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATIONS BOTH AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS LOOKED AT PARTICULARLY TERRIBLE PRISON CONDITIONS IN PLACES LIKE ALABAMA, WHICH HAS SOME OF THE MOST VIOLENT PRISONS.

AND YOU KNOW, 10 YEARS LATER, FIVE YEARS LATER, NOTHING HAS CHANGED, RIGHT?

SO WE NEED A SYSTEM OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THIS CULTURE OF SILENCE AND PROTECTION OF OTHER OFFICERS WHO ENGAGE IN THIS KIND OF BRUTALITY.

THEIR SUPERVISORS TURN A BLIND EYE.

THERE IS NO PUNISHMENT FOR THEM.

IF THIS HADN'T BEEN FILMED AND HADN'T BEEN RELEASED TO THE PUBLIC, WHO NODES WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IN THIS CASE.

YOU KNOW, THEY WOULD HAVE FOUND SOME OTHER REASON FOR HIM DYING, RIGHT?

AND SO I THINK THAT WE NEED A LOT MORE THAN JUST MORE COMMISSIONS LOOKING INTO THESE ISSUES.

WE NEED CHANGES IN HOW THESE OFFICERS, YOU KNOW, IF THEY LOSE THEIR JOB AS A RESULT OF THESE THINGS, THAT COULD START TO CHANGE THINGS.

>> JENNY, THE GOVERNOR HAS MOVED TO FIRE 14-- GUARDS AND A NURSE, AND I READ JUST THIS MORNING, FOUR OTHER GUARDS AS WELL.

>> RIGHT, SO THIS PARTICULAR PRISON HAS A HISTORY.

THERE WERE ALLEGATIONS OF A VERY LARGE BEATING THAT HAPPENED, 100 PRISONERS, 30 GUARDS A COUPLE YEARS AGO.

NO CONSEQUENCES CAME OF THAT ACTION.

WE SEE WHAT I THINK THERE ARE FOUR OTHER CASES RIGHT NOW PENDING WITH DIFFERENT OFFICERS, INCLUDING A COUPLE INVOLVED IN THIS MOST RECENT BEATING.

SO THIS PARTICULAR PRISON SEEMS TO HAVE AN AN AN ESPECIALLY PROBLEMATIC HISTORY.

IT RAISES QUESTIONS TO ME ON KIND OF THE LARGER SUPERVISORY OVERSIGHT BY NEW YORK STATE OF OUR PRISON SYSTEMS.

I WAS LOOKING INTO THE HISTORY OF THE WHO IS THE CURRENT COMMISSIONER.

THEY HAVE BEEN IN AN ACTING POSITION FOR THE PAST YEAR, ONLY APPOINTED AS PERMANENT POSITION IN MAY.

THE PRIOR COMMISSIONER HAD BEEN IN THE POSITION FOR 10 YEARS.

IT SAYS TO ME THAT THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION THAT NEW YORK STATE IS NOT DOING A GOOD JOB OF OVERSEEING THE CORRECTIONAL SYSTEM.

CLOSING MARCY, I DON'T THINK IS AN OPTION AT THE MOMENT, IN PART BECAUSE ACTUALLY INCARCERATIONS ARE UP 4% THIS PAST YEAR.

SO WHILE NEW YORK HAS REDUCED THE NUMBER OF PRISONS OVER THE LAST 15 YEARS, WE PROBABLY NEED THE CURRENT FACILITY.

SO WE DON'T CREATE OVERCROWDING AND OTHER ISSUES LIKE THAT.

BUT THERE HAS TO BE OVERSIGHT.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN CAUSER CARS RATED FOR A CRIME DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU POTENTIALLY FACE BEATINGS AND DEATH.

>> AND JUST REAL QUICK.

OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE THAT WATCH THE SHOW KNOW THAT I'M THE FIRST TO STAND UP AND SPEAK ON BEHALF OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND CORRECTION.

AND IN THIS CASE, THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT A FEW DO TO TARNISH WHAT MANY DO RIGHT.

THIS IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING ALL THE TIME IN PRISONS.

THIS IS-- THIS MAY BE AN INDICATOR OF WHAT HAS BEEN OCCURRING WAY TOO MUCH IN THAT PRISON, BUT IT'S NOT IN INDICATIVE OF WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS IN PRISONS.

>> BUT UNLESS YOU HAVE A SYSTEM OF ACCOUNTABILITY IN THE PRISON,-- >> AND THERE IS.

>> HAVE YOU TO HAVE THE PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE TAKING-- WHEN THESE BAD THINGS HAPPEN, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THEM?

>> THEY HAVE A SYSTEM OF INTERNAL AFFAIRS BUT YOU ARE CORRECT.

HAD HE NOT PASSED AWAY, UNFORTUNATELY THIS PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATED.

>> IF THERE HADN'T BEEN CAMERAS.

THAT'S THE OTHER BIG THING AND THAT OF THE WAS NEW.

>> AND THE OTHER ISSUE WITH VIOLENCE IS PRISONER ON PRISONER VIOLENCE, RIGHT?

SO IT'S NOT JUST THAT THEY'RE THREATENED BY OFFICERS WHICH IS TRUE AS WELL BUT THE OFFICERS OFTEN TURN A BLIND EYE TO PRISONER ON PRISONER VIOLENCE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT >> PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP DID NOT CAMPAIGN ON TERRITORIAL EXPANSION, BUT HE SURE IS TALKING ABOUT IT NOW.

HE HAS REPEATEDLY SAID THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO ACQUIRE GREENLAND, AND AT A NEWS CONFERENCE THIS WEEK HE DID NOT RULE OUT USING MILITARY FORCE TO GET IT.

SAME THING FOR TAKING CONTROL OF THE PANAMA CANAL.

TRUMP ADVISORS SAY THESE MOVES ARE PART OF A PLAN TO COUNTER RUSSIA AND CHINA.

WITH THAT IN MIND, WHILE BUYING -OR ANNEXING-- GREENLAND SOUNDS A BIT CRAZY, IS IT?

>> YES!

YES.

TOTALLY CRAZY.

SO OF EVERY PRESIDENT, WHEN THEY COME IN, IN THE OVAL OFFICE THEY PUT A PICTURE OF WHO THINK WANT TO BE.

THEY PUT TRUMAN OR F.D.R.

OR LINCOLN.

I DID NOT SEE THAT TRUMP SEES HIMSELF AS WILLIAM McKINLAY.

THAT I DID NOT SEE COMING BUT McKINLEY IS TARIFFS AND EMPIRE.

THAT'S WHAT HE WAS B.

THE THING ABOUT EMPIRE WHICH WE ENDED AFTER THE SPANISH AMERICAN WAR.

THAT'S THE LAST TIME WE WANTED NEW TERRITORY, THE THING IS IT DOESN'T WORK.

AND WE ALREADY HAVE AN EMPIRE.

IT HAS HUNDREDS OF BASES IN SCORES OF COUNTRIES.

CHINA HAS THREE BASES OUTSIDE OF CHINA.

WE HAVE HUNDREDS.

IT HAS WORKED BECAUSE PEOPLE WANT US THERE VOLUNTARILY TO HELP SUPPORT THE RULE OF LAW, BUT IF WE ARE TO ABSOLVE THE RULE OF LAW AND NO LONGER DO THAT, THEN WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE THERE ANYMORE.

AND IF WE CONTINUE TO DO THIS, OUR ALLIES WILL NOT THINK WE ARE ALLIES AND THEY WILL START TO GET NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

I THINK THAT'S THE OTHER THING THAT WILL HAPPEN.

IF WE DON'T HAVE THE SENSE OF ALLIES, THERE WILL BE NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION.

WITH TRUMP, HE IS ALL THE ISMS.

NATIVE ITCH, PROTECTIONISM AND ISOLATIONISM.

THAT ISOLATIONISM DOESN'T HAPPEN IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE.

WE ARE GOING TO SEE HIM TRYING TO DO THIS BUT IT IS CRAZY AND EVEN WORSE, IT'S DANGEROUS.

>> I HAVEN'T HEARD TALK RECENTLY ABOUT THE MONROE DOCTRINE BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN, IN FACT THE NEW YORK POST WAS CALLING IT THE DONROE DOCTRINE.

>> TRUMP DID NOT CAMPAIGN ON.

THIS HE DID LEAVE HIS LAST ADMINISTRATION MAKING ARGUMENTS ABOUT POTENTIALLY TAKING GREENLAND.

SO IT IS INTERESTING TO ME THAT WE ARE NOW IMMEDIATELY, AS MANY THE ALMOST THE FIRST MOVE IN HIS ADMINISTRATION, THIS PARTICULAR DIE NEWSCASTIC MOVE.

-- DIE NEWSCASTIC MOVE DYNATSIC MOVE.

GREEN LAND HAS THE MINERALS THAT THE WORLD NEEDS.

THEY'RE BURIED BENEATH ICE.

BUT WITH CLIMATE CHANGE THAT BECOMES MORE REAL IN TERMS OF ACCESS.

THE SHIPPING LANES AROUND GREENLAND ARE GOING TO BECOME VERY IMPORTANT AND STRATEGICALLY GROWNLAND HAS BEEN AN IMPORTANT LOCATION FOR US WITH OUR CONVERSATIONS THAT WE HAVE WITH RUSSIA.

SO IT'S IT'S NOT ENTIRELY CRAZY BUT THE WAY TRUMP IS TALKING ABOUT THIS WITH POTENTIALLY USING FORCE IS PROBLEMATIC.

>> NEGOTIATION WITH ALLIES PERHAPS COULD GET THE SAME THING, VAIR?

>>-- SARAH.

>> BUT IF YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT-- TRUMP LOOKS AT THE WORLD LIKE A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER AND WOULD BE MOB BOSS, RIGHT?

AND A LOT OF HIS SCHTICK IS PERFORM TIFF.

HE DIDN'T BUILD A WALL BUT HIS SUPPORT ERTS DON'T CARE THAT HE DIDN'T BUILD A WALL.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE PERFORMANCE EVER STRENGTH.

I AGREE WITH JENNY IN THE SENSE THAT THERE IS, YOU KNOW, MINERALS IN GREENLAND THAT ARE IMPORTANT STRATEGICALLY.

I'M NOT SURE THAT TRUMP COULD NAME ONE OF THOSE MINERALS, FRANKLY.

I READ THAT SOME RICH FRIEND OF HIS IS THE ONE THAT PUT THIS LITTLE BUG IN HIS EAR.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS PART OF THE PROBLEM OF THE MEDIA'S COVERAGE OF TRUMP IN HIS FIRST TERM IS THIS KIND OF BIAS TOWARDS COHERENCE.

WE TRY TO MAKE IT SOUND AS THOUGH HE IS REALLY KNOWING WHAT HE IS DOING AND THERE IS SOME GRAND PLAN HERE.

BUT FRANKLY, I JUST THINK IT'S HIS OWN.

HE LIKES TO BE TRANSGRESSIVE, RIGHT?

HE LIKES TO PERFORM STRENGTH.

AND HE SEES THE WORLD IN VERY WARMED WAYS THAT I THINK-- WARPED WAYS THAT ARE NOT IN THE UNITED STATES INTEREST IN THE LONG RUN.

SOFT POWER IS MORE EFFECTIVE.

CHINA IS WORKING IN GREENLAND WITH THEM THROUGH HEARTS AND MINDS.

THEY'RE NOT COMING IN THERE WITH A BIG CLUB AND I THINK THE PROBLEM IS THESE COUNTRIES ARE GOING TO REJECT THIS KIND OF OVERTURES.

THEY'RE GOING TO VOTE FOR NATIONALIST LEADERS IN ORDER TO PUSH AGAINST THE UNITED STATES.

AND THAT'S NOT IN OUR INTEREST IN THE LONG RUN.

>> BEN, THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THIS POST WAR ORDER THAT WE HAVE, WE'VE HAVE HAD FOR 80 YEARS HAS KEPT THE PEACE.

IS THIS JUST TELLING US THAT THE POST-WAR ORDER IS DEAD AT THIS POINT?

>> NO.

WHAT THIS IS SHOWING US IS AGAIN TRUMP IS TRANSACTIONAL.

HE IS COMPLETELY UNDERESTIMATED BY HALF THE COUNTRY.

BUT HE DOES HAVE THE ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND THAT POWER COMES FROM A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS.

WE HAVE DIFFERENT ACTIONS THAT WE CAN TAKE.

HE WAS ASKED A SPECIFIC QUESTION AND HAD HE SAID NO, WE WOULD NEVER USE THE MILITARY, HE WOULD LOSE PSYCHOLOGICAL LEVERAGE IN THIS CASE.

DOES HE, OR IS HE ACTUALLY GOING TO USE MILITARY?

NO, THERE IS NO WAY HE IS GOING TO USE MILITARY IN GREENLAND.

THAT'S SILL AGREE BUT WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF TRYING TO GET IT ANYWAY, TO BUY IT OR TO-- THIS IS STILL AN ALLY THAT HE IS USING LEVERAGE OVER.

>> CORRECT.

AND WE DO HAVE STRATEGIC BASES THERE OR A BASE THERE THAT IS HIGHLY IMPORTANT TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY.

SO TO HAVE THE GLOBAL RESPONSE THAT TY WAS TALKING ABOUT IS THE WAY FORWARD AND THAT'S WHAT TRUMP IS GOING TO DO.

IF HE CAN STRIKE A DEAL THOUGH GOING BACK TO THE POINT ABOUT THE REAL ESTATE KIND OF MIND, HE IS GOING TO STRIKE A DEAL.

>> SO WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA OF IMPERIALISM.

YOU SAID HE IS ACTING LIKE A MOB BOSS BUT AND I THINK YOU WERE SAYING McKINLEY IS BASICALLY 19th CENTURY IMPERIALIST.

>> AND AGAIN, THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE THAT ARGUE THAT WE ARE ALREADY ARE AN EMPIRE.

AS MANY BASES SOME SAY OVER 200 BASES IN OVER 80 COUNTRIES BY SOME ACCOUNTS.

SOME OF WHICH WE DON'T EVEN KNOW ABOUT.

WE ARE ALREADY EVERYWHERE.

AND IT'S BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE TO KEEP THE RULE OF LAW.

WHEN WE SUPPORT THE RULE OF LAW, WHICH WE HAVEN'T ALWAYS DONE.

BUT THE IDEA THAT WE ARE DOING THAT, I THINK IS WHERE WE BECOME THE MOST EFFECTIVE.

>> AND I STARTED BY SAYING THIS IS CRAZY AND YOU SAID YES BUT BEN, YOU ARE SAYING NO.

THIS IS JUST A STRATEGY.

>> YEAH IT'S TRUMP THAT SAYS ANYTHING THAT COMES TO HIS MIND, AND HE WAS ASKED A QUESTION.

HE WAS DEFINITELY NOT GOING TO TAKE ANY LEVERAGE OFF THE TABLE.

>> OKAY.

MARK ZUCKERBERG ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK THAT FACEBOOK WILL NO LONGER USE 3RD-PARTY FACT CHECKERS TO MODERATE CONTENT ON THE SITE.

FACEBOOK WILL NOW ADOPT THE APPROACH OF ELON MUSK WITH X-- USING COMMUNITY NOTES IN WHICH OTHER USERS ATTACH CONTEXT TO POSTS.

ZUCKERBERG SAID THE ELECTION INDICATES A "CULTURAL TIPPING POINT TOWARD PRIORITIZING SPEECH."

DO FACT CHECKERS LIKE SNOPES AND POLITIFACT CENSOR CONSERVATIVE VIEWS?

ARE COMMUNITY NOTES EFFECTIVE?

IN MODERATING CONTENT.

>> WE HAVE HAD A COUPLE OF YEARS TO LOOK AT MODERATING NOTES TO SEE WHAT SORT OF IMPACT IT HAS ON THE PRODUCTION AND SPREAD OF FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION ON X AND TIM GRAHAM AT GREENSLAND UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY HAS BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY LOOKING AT THIS.

THE RESEARCH HE HAS REPORTED SO FAR THAT NOTES ARE NOT EFFECTIVE.

FOR A COUPLE REASONS.

ONE IS THAT THIS IDEA OF COMMUNITY NOTES MEANS THAT WHEN PEOPLE SEE POSTS, THEY THEN COMMENT ON WHETHER OR NOT THE POST IS FACTUALLY CORRECT OR NOT AND WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

AND OTHERS THEN WEIGH IN AND FUNCTIONALLY VOTE ON WHETHER OR NOT THEY AGREE A NOTE SHOULD BE APPENDED.

THAT'S WHAT SUCKER ZUCKERBERG REFERS TO AS DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES THAT WOULD GIVE RISE TO THE COMMUNITY NOTES.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THAT TAKES TIME.

WHILE THE COMMUNITY IS DELIBERATING, THE FALSE AND MISLEADING INFORMATION IS OUT THERE AND IT IS SPREADING.

AND SO WHEN THE COMMUNITY FINALLY AGREES AND A NOTE IS AMENDED OR APEPPEDDED, TIM'S RESEARCH HAS SUGGESTED IT IS NOT ENGAGED WITH AS MUCH AS THE ORIGINAL MESSAGE IS AND WE KNOW ONCE A FALSE PIECE OF INFORMATION IS OUT THERE, IT'S HARD TO GET IT CORRECTED IN THE MINDS OF THE PUBLIC.

WE TEND TO HOLD ON TO THE OLD INFORMATION AND THE NEW INFORMATION WE DON'T UPDATE.

AND THE LAST PIECE IS THAT CONSENSUS IS REALLY TRICKY.

WHEN YOU ARE OR DEALING WITH FACTUAL INFORMATION WHERE YOU CAN POINT TO RIGHT AND WRONG OR CORRECT OR INCORRECT, THAT'S EASIER BUT WHEN YOU ARE OR DEALING WITH MORAL ISSUES, IT'S MUCH, MUCH HARDER TO GET ANY KIND OF AGREEMENT.

>> SO BEN, ONE OF THE CRIT SIMPLES OF THE FACT CHECKERS AND THIS CONTENT MODERATION IS THAT IT IS BIASED AGAINST CONSERVATIVE SPEECH.

>> THAT'S A FACT.

THAT'S A FACT NOT APRIL ARGUMENT.

IT HAS BEEN.

IF YOU LOOK AT GOOGLE, FOR EXAMPLE, AS A NEWS FEED, YOU STILL HAVE TO BE CRITICAL AND BE A CRITICAL THINKER AND DIVERSIFY WHAT I GUESS JOURNALIST OUTLETS THAT YOU LOOK AT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SLANTS ON THE FACTS.

SO YOU HAVE TO, YOU DO, HAVE YOU TO DIVERSIFY WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO LOOK AT.

IF YOU TURN ON FOX AND LOOK AT FOX AND THEN TURN ON CNN, THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT VIEWS OF THE WORLD.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS.

BUT HAVE YOU TO DO THAT.

YOU'VE GOT TO CRITICALLY LOOK AT EVERYTHING OR YOU ARE JUST GOING TO BE LISTENING TO OTHER PEOPLE THAT THINK JUST LIKE YOU.

>> BUT WHEN YOU MAKE A STATEMENT THAT IVERMECTIN WILL CURE COVID, THAT IS FACTUALLY INCORRECT.

THERE IS NO REAL FACTS ON THAT.

>> IT TAKES TIME AND ACCESS.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN X AND FACEBOOK.

FACEBOOK IS USUALLY THE FRIENDS.

GOING TO THE FRIENDS VERSUS TO A PUBLIC FORUM WHERE THERE IS MORE PEOPLE TO PUT THE NOTE TAKING ON FOR THEIR COMMUNITY NOTES.

>> THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE, YOU KNOW, THE OTHER WAY TO DO THIS IS IN TIME FACT CHECKING WHICH IS WHAT THEY WERE FORCED TO DO.

AND I THINK I'M RIGHT, BUT MAYBE YOU CAN CORRECT ME, JENNIFER, THAT ACTUALLY IS EFFECTIVE.

THE RESEARCH SHOWS THAT ADDING A NOTE TO A POST WHEN IT IS UP, RIGHT, INITIALLY, DOES ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE DISTINGUISH BETWEEN TRUTH AND FICTION AND THAT THE EXPERIMENTS HAVE SHOWN THAT PEOPLE BELIEVE IT LESS AND SHARE THOSE POSTS LESS.

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

SO THERE IS LESS ENGAGEMENT.

BUT AGAIN TIME MATTERS ON THAT.

IT HAS TO BE THERE IMMEDIATELY.

THE OTHER THING THAT FACEBOOK AND X HAD BEEN DOING IS DEPRICATING OR REMOVING FACTUALLY INCORRECT POSTS SO THEY WEREN'T SPREADING IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> I THINK FOR MARK ZUCKERBERG, HE IS A WEATHER VEIN.

THE WIND POINTS TO THE RIGHT, HE GOES TO THE RIGHT.

THE WIND POINTS TO THE LEFT, HE GOES TO THE LEFT.

HIS BUSINESS MODEL IS TO NOT UPSET WHOEVER IS IN POWER.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S DOING HERE.

SOCIAL MEDIA IS IN ITS INFANCY AND ALL PRETTY BAD ANYWAY.

I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE END OF THE ISSUE.

I THINK THIS IS JUST AN INTERIM STAGE AND IT IS GOING TO COME BACK AGAIN BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE CRISIS IS GOING TO COME WHERE THERE IS FALSE INFORMATION AND DEATHS LEAD TO THAT, THEN THEY'LL HAVE TO COME BACK AGAIN.

I THINK WE ARE JUST IN THE EARLY STAGES-- >> I WOULD JUST ADD THOUGH, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU THAT HE IS A WEATHER VEIN BUT FUNDAMENTALLY THESE TECH BRO'S BELIEVE THEY KNOW BEST AND THEY WOULD PREFER THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T INTERFERE IN ANYTHING THAT THEY DO AND THEY THINK THE PLATFORMS ARE DOING GOOD IN THE WORLD AND DON'T TELL THEM ANY DIFFERENTLY.

I THINK THERE IS A BIG EGO AND ECONOMIC INTERESTS HERE.

>> SO ONE THING I AM WONDERING ABOUT, YOU MENTIONED DEATHS COULD HAPPEN FROM SOMETHING IN THE FUTURE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT IT COULD BE.

THIS IS A BIGGER QUESTION PROBABLY THAN WE CAN HANDLE.

WE HAVE A BEDROCK FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHT, RIGHT?

AND THE ANSWER TO SPEECH IS MORE SPEECH.

AND HOW DO YOU BALANCE THAT IN A WORLD IN WHICH SOMETHING CAN GO VIRAL AND THE ALGORITHM CAN PUSH SOMETHING SO QUICKLY... >> WE BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH OVER SAFETY RIGHT NOW, AS WE ARE SPEAKING AT THIS MOMENT, FREE SPEECH IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN SAFETY.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT WAY, BUT AT THIS MOMENT IT FEELS THAT WAY.

>> BUT FREE SPEECH IS SOMETHING THAT IS-- HOW DO I PUT THIS.

WE HAVE SAID THAT WE DO NOT WANT GOVERNMENT TO BE DICTATING OUR SPEECH.

BUT PRIVATE COMPANIES ROUTINELY GOVERN OUR SPEECH.

AND THESE PLATFORMS ARE PRIVATE COMPANIES.

AND THERE IS A CHALLENGE HERE.

ZUCKERBERG WAS NOT FULLY TRANSPARENT IN HIS PRESS RELEASE BY TALKING ABOUT FACT CHECKING WHEN, IN FACT, ONE OF THE OTHER MAJOR CHANGES THAT ARE HAPPENING IS THE REJECTION OR A MASSIVE CHANGE IN THEIR POLICIES AROUND HATE SPEECH.

>> SO THESE PRIVATE COMPANIES TODAY ARE THE PUBLIC SPHERE.

TWITTER-- OR X AND FACEBOOK.

THAT'S THE PUBLIC SPHERE.

>> IT RAISES QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS THE OBLIGATION OF THESE COMPANIES AROUND THE SORTS OF CONVERSATIONS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

FREE SPEECH TO SOME IS HATE SPEECH TO OTHERS.

IT CAN BE DIRECTLY HARMFUL TO MINORITY POPULATIONS WHEN YOU CALL THEM VIOLENT MURDER RIFTS.

>> PROTECTED SPEECH.

WE NEED TO GO TO THE As AND F. >> PROTECTED SPEECH IN THE CONTEXT OF GOVERNMENT.

>> YES.

>> WE GO TO THE AS AND Fs.

SARAH YOUR F. >> THERE ARE MANY INDICATORS OF THE DYSFUNCTION OF THE U.S. HEALTHCARE SYSTEM.

ONE OF THEM IS THE INCREDIBLE AMOUNT OF MEDICAL DEBT THAT AMERICANS CARRY.

MEDICAL DEBT LEADS PEOPLE TO DELAY OR AVOID GETTING CARE OR FILLING PRECIPITATIONS PRESCRIPTIONS AND AFFECTS PEOPLE'S CREDIT SCORES MAKING IT DIFFICULT FOR THEM TO QUALIFY FOR MORTGAGES AND OTHER KINDS OF LOANS.

FORTUNATELY THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION RECENTLY ENACTED A RULE THAT WILL REMOVE ALMOST $50 BILLION OF MEDICAL DEBT FOR MORE THAN 15 MILLION AMERICANS, WHICH MEANS THAT LENDERS WILL NO LONGER BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN DECIDING WHETHER TO ISSUE PEOPLE A LOAN.

THAT WAS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

>> THOSE WHO FOUR YEARS AGO WHO STORMED THE CAPITOL, THREATENING THE VICE PRESIDENT, LED TO THE INJURY MAIMING AND DEATH OF THE CAPITOL POLICE AND I FOR ONE WILL NOT FORGET THIS WAS A DAY MEANT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION, NOT A DAY OF LOVE AS PRESIDENT-ELECT SAID.

IT IS ONE OF THE DARKEST DAYS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

>> BEN, MY F IS GOING TO L.A. COUNTY LEADERSHIP FOR THEIR PREPARATION AND RESPONSE TO THE LARGELY UNCONTAINED FROM 0% TO SO% OF FIRES THAT ARE THERE.

IT IS AN INFRASTRUCTURE BREAKDOWN.

10 PEOPLE HAVE LOST THEIR LIVES THAT WE KNOW ABOUT SO FAR FROM THE MEDICAL EXAMER.

THERE ARE GOING TO BE MANY MORE DISCOVERED.

THOUSANDS OF HOMES BURNED DOWN.

NEIGHBORHOODS.

180,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN EVACUATED.

THE ESSENTIAL PART FROM THIS IS THAT WE LEARN FROM IT.

THAT WE DEAL WITH CRITICAL INCIDENTS FROM THE GET GO, THAT WE KNOW HOW TO PREVENT THEM.

THAT WE PUT THINGS IN PLACE LIKE THE WATER ACTUALLY NEEDS TO WORK IN THE FIRE HYDRANTS DURING A FIRE.

AND FINALLY, MITIGATION.

>> JENNY.

>> SO MY F GOES TO THE SYRACUSE POST STANDARD FOR ITS MISLEADING HEADLINES SUGGESTING THAT TWO NEIGHBORS ARE EQUALLY ATTACKING EACH OTHER PUBLICLY WHEN IN TRUTH, ONE IS AN AGGRIEVED AGGRESSOR TRYING TO BULLY A NEIGHBOR THROUGH SIGNS INTO SELLING LAND THAT HE WANTS.

AND THE OTHER, WHOSE CHILDREN ARE NOW BEING HARASSED AT SCHOOL.

THE HEADLINE IS CLEARLY MEANT TO SELL EYEBALLS TO ADVERTISERS BUT JOURNALISM INTEGRITY SUFFERS.

>> AS SARAH.

>> YESTERDAY A STATE FUNERAL FOR FORMER PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER WAS HELD AT THE NATIONAL CATHEDRAL.

A BEAUTIFUL TRIBUTE TO A MAN WHO WAS PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID HAD CHARACTER, CHARACTER, CHARACTER.

BIDEN WENT ON TO SAY THAT ANYONE IN SEARCH OF MEANING AND PURPOSE SHOULD STUDY THE POWER OF JIMMY CARTER'S EXAMPLE AND I COULDN'T AGREE MORE.

>> TY.

>> MY A GOES TO SECRETARY OF NAVY CARLOS DEL TORO WHO EXONERATED THE PORT CHICAGO 50 AFTER THE LARGEST EXPLOSION IN THE U.S. DURING WORD KILLED OVER 300 MAINLY BLACK SAILORS.

THEY REFUSED TO GO BACK TO WORK UNTIL SAFETY CONDITIONS WERE MET AND THEY WERE CONVICTED OF MUTINY AND DURING THAT TIME 100,000 BLACK SAILORS, NO BLACK OFFICERS AND SECRETARY DEL TORO SHOWED THAT DOING THE RIGHT THING IS NEVER TOO LATE.

>> BEN.

>> MY A IS GOING TO STEVE GUTENBERG BEST KNOWN FROM HIS ACTING IN POLICE ACADEMY MOVIES SPRANG INTO ACTION IN L.A.

THIS PAST WEEK TO HELP FIREFIGHTERS MOVE CARS THAT HAVE BEEN ABANDONED, STRANDED AND BLOCKING THE WAY FOR EMERGENCY VEHICLES INCLUDING THE FIRE TRUCKS TO GET INTO THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE ON FIRE.

HE SAID A LOT OF THINGS BUT THE BEST TAKEAWAY IS PEOPLE CAN'T BE REPLACED BUT PROPERTY CAN.

>> MY A GOES TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR WORKING ITS FINAL DAYS TO KEEP BIDEN'S PROMISE TO CLOSE GUANTANAMO BAY PRISON.

11 DETAINEERS WERE TRANSFERRED.

THEY NEVER HAD CRIMINAL CHARGES PLACED AGAINST THEM AND DETAINED FOR 23 YEARS.

GRAWN TAN POE WILL BE REMEMBERED AS AN EGREGIOUS LUMENTS VIOLATION.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO AT DRESS ON YOUR SCREEN F. YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

FOR ALL OF US AT "THE IVORY TOWER."

HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.