COMING UP ON IVORY TOWER -- BEHIND THE PRISON BARS• BUYING YOUR WAY TO CITIZENSHIP AND BOYCOTTING BIG RETAILERS.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD TO HAVE YOU WITH US FOR IVORY TOWER..

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT, FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

THE PANELISTS JOINING ME TONIGHT ARE ANIRBAN ACHARYA, FROM LE MOYNE COLLEGE, JENNY STROMER-GALLEY FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

CHAD SPARBER, FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, AND TARA ROSS, FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE THE SPOTLIGHT'S BEEN ON THE STATE'S CORRECTIONS SYSTEM THIS WEEK.

TEN GUARDS AT A UTICA-AREA PRISON WERE ARRAIGNED FOR MURDER AND MANSLAUGHTER IN THE BEATING DEATH OF A PRISONER.

OTHER OFFICERS AT A WESTERN NEW YORK PRISON STARTED A WILDCAT STRIKE -WHICH RUFFLED ITS WAY ACROSS THE STATE FOR 10 DAYS.

THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS COMPLAIN THE JOB IS GETTING MORE DANGEROUS AND THEY NEED MORE STAFF.

THEY ALSO WANT A SUSPENSION OF THE STRICTER SOLITARY CONFINEMENT RULES.

OVERNIGHT IT APPEARED THAT THEY HAD A TENTATIVE DEAL.

WE ARE RECORDING FRIDAY MORNING SO JENNY, THINGS MAY CHANGE THAT OUR VIEWERS MAY KNOW THAT WE DON'T AT THIS MOMENT.

BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THE WORKERS IN THIS TENTATIVE DEAL GOT A LOT OF WHAT THEY WANTED.

>> THEY VERY MUCH DID.

IT'S INTERESTING AND IMPRESSIVE AND ALSO PUZZLING AT THE SAME TIME.

SO IF I WERE CYNICAL, I WOULD SAY THAT THIS WILD CAT STRIKE WAS AN INTENTIONAL EFFORT BY THE CORRECTIONS OFFICERS TO DISTRACT ATTENTION AWAY FROM WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE BRUTAL BEATING AND DEATH AT MARCY CORRECTIONAL FACILITY.

SO THAT'S CYNICAL.

THE LESSON-- THE LESS CYNICAL PART OF ME SAY THERE ARE CLEARLY ISSUES HAPPENING IN NEW YORK'S CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES AND THANKFULLY WE HAVE LITTLE BROTHER, THAT IS CAMERAS, THAT ALLOW FOR INSIDE, INSIGHT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE TO SEE WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE INNER WORKINGS THAT HOPEFULLY ALLOWS JUSTICE TO COME THROUGH FOR THE BRUTAL BEATING THAT HAPPENED IN MARCY.

BUT I THINK THERE ARE ISSUES, RIGHT?

THE NUMBERS OF CORRECTION OFFICERS TODAY ACTUALLY IS MORE PROPORTIONALLY TO WHAT IT WAS AT THE HIGH POINT IN 199 THE-- IN 1999.

THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT HAVE DROPPED BY HALF BUT THE CORRECTIONAL OFFICERS HAVE DROPPED BY 35%.

IT'S PUZZLING TO ME WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE.

IF THE CORRECTION OFFICES ARE SAYING THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF AND FACING A LOT OF POTENTIAL DANGER BUT THERE ARE MORE CORRECTION OFFICERS TODAY, WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE SYSTEM?

WE NEED MORE ACCOUNTABILITY AND WE NEED ANSWERS AND WE STILL DON'T HAVE THEM.

>> FULL DISCLOSURE, I AM CYNICAL AND THE WAY THE STRIKE OCCURRED, IT LOOKED LIKE THEY WERE WEAPONIZING THE STRIKE TO MINIMIZE THE BRUTAL BEATING OF ROBERT BROOKS WHICH WAS NOT CAUGHT ON CAMMING RA.

IT WAS ACCIDENTALLY CAUGHT.

WE WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN THIS AND OF COURSE WE DON'T KNOW MANY OF THIS BRUTALITY THAT GOES ON AGAINST PRISONERS.

THAT SHOULD NOT TAKE AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT IT HAS SOCIALIZED INTO CIVIL SOCIETY AND SO ON AND SO FORTH AND THEY SHOULD HAVE SOME SAY.

BUT YOU KNOW, I WANT TO THINK ABOUT THE WORD MERCY.

HOW DO WE DO PRISONS, THE WORD CORRECTIONS IS A TRAVESTY.

EVERYBODY KNOWS WHEN YOU GO INTO PRISON, COME OUT WORSE THAN THAT AND YOU CAN'T FIND A JOB AND YOU GO BACK.

WE LOOK AT NORWAY AND SWEDEN, THEY DON'T HAVE A MASSIVELY LONG-TERM SOLITARY CONFINEMENT AND LESS RECIDIVISM RATES.

SO MAYBE THERE IS A PLACE FOR GUARDS TO NOT DEHUMANIZE THE PRISON POPULATION.

BUT ALSO FOR THE CIVIL SOCIETY TO HAVE MORE COMPASSION TOWARDS THE GUARDS AS WELL BECAUSE THEY ARE DOING A DIFFICULT JOB.

THEY ARE FACING VIOLENCE AND SO ON AND SO FORTH BUT I DON'T THINK THIS LONG-TERM MORE THAN 15 DAYS OF, YOU KNOW, SOLITARY CONFINEMENT IS GOOD AT ALL.

IT'S INHUMAN AND I CAN'T STAND THAT.

>> TARA, HE IS TALKING ABOUT THE HALT ACT WHICH THE LEGISLATURE PASSED A FEW YEARS AGO AND THE GUARDS ARE SAYING THAT IT SHIFTED THE BALANCE OF POWER IN THE PRISONS AND MAKES IT MORE DANGEROUS FOR THEM.

SO IT'S TEMPORARILY BEING SUSPENDED.

THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T VOTE TO REPEAL IT.

SO SHOULD IT CONTINUE?

DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ON THIS?

>> ACTUALLY I THINK IT SHOULD BUT FOR THE SIMPLE FACT THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE DID A REPORT ON THE HALT ACT.

I THINK IT CAME OUT IN 2024 AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THE VERY POOR RECORD KEEPING OF DOCCS, THE DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONS AND COMMUNITY SUPPORT I THINK IS WHAT IT'S CALLED.

AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IS THERE IS VERY POOR RECORD KEEPING, SO THERE REALLY ISN'T ANY PROOF THAT THE HALT ACT DOESN'T WORK.

BUT SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S REPORT FOUND WAS THAT SOME PRISONS WERE ACTUALLY ATTEMPTING TO IMPLEMENT THE HALT ACT, SOME WEREN'T.

IT SEEMED TO BE VERY SUBJECTIVE.

THE ALTERNATIVES TO SOLITARY CONFINEMENT WERE SOMETIMES BEING USE UTILIZED WERE NOT BEING UTILIZED SO PART OF THE PROBLEM IS YOU HAVEN'T HAD TRUE IMPLEMENTATION TO KNOW IF IT IS WORKING OR NOT SO WHY SUSPEND IT IF WE DON'T KNOW IT'S WORKING.

UP WITH OTHER THING, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE OFTEN DON'T TALK ABOUT IS THE MIND SET OF PEOPLE WHO BECOME CORRECTIONS OFFICERS AND I THINK IT VAR EZ.

I WILL MENTION TWO.

YOU WILL FIND OFTEN THE DIRECTION OFFICES GET BEGET CORRECTION OFFICES.

YOU HAVE TWO AND THREE GENERATIONS OF CORRECTION OFFICERS.

SO IF YOU HAVE GROWN UP WITH A MIND SET ABOUT PRISONERS, YOU BECOME A CORRECTIONS OFFICER.

TO SHIFT THE MIND SET TAKES QUITE A BIT AND I THINK PART OF THAT IS WORKING HERE.

THE OTHER THING IS YOU OFTEN TIME PEOPLE THAT BECOME CORRECTIONS OFFICERS HAVE A CERTAIN DESIRE FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF POWER.

THE HALT ACT REMOVED POWER TO A CERTAIN EXTENT FROM THE DIRECTIONS OFFICERS.

THEY DIDN'T LIKE IT FROM THE START AND I THINK THIS BECAME AN OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND GET RID OF SOMETHING THEY DIDN'T WANT ANYWAY.

>> I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT JENNY SAID.

I'M GOING TO GUESS, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT THE DECREASE IN PRISON POPULATION IS PROBABLY LOW LEVEL DRUG OFFENDERS WHO HAD COMMUTED SENTENCES.

>> REDUCTION OF THE ROCKEFELLER.

>> DANGEROUS PEOPLE REMAIN.

SIMON GREER IS A PROMINENT PROGRESSIVE ACTIVIST WHO WORKS TO PROMOTE DIALOGUE ACROSS DIFFERENCE.

HE WROTE A PAPER, AN ARTICLE IN SALON ABOUT SEVEN YEARS AGO; ARC EWING THAT-- ARGUING THAT CORRECTION OFFICES ARE ON THE FRONT LINES OF THE INCARCERATION CRISIS AND THEIR VOICES ARE TOO RARELY HEARD AND VERY OFTEN EXCLUDED AND IF JUSTICE WANTS TO HAVE REFORM, THEY HAVE TO TAKE SERIOUSLY THEIR EXPERIENCES EVEN WHEN THEY CONFLICT WITH THEIR PROGRESSIVE POINT OF VIEW.

I THINK OF EASY AREAS OF REFORM LIKE CHRONIC UNDERSTAFFING, MANDATORY OVERTIME, EASY ACCESS TO TO CONTRABAND.

THESE ARE THINGS THAT AMPLIFY HOW DANGEROUS OUR PRISONS ARE AND SO THOSE ARE THE DEMANDS OF I WOULD ABOUT FIRST.

TARA, I'M UNEASY WITH SOME OF THE STUFF YOU SAID.

I ALSO WANT TO RECOGNIZE THE STRESSES OF THAT JOB.

CORRECTION OFFICERS EXPERIENCE PTSD AT RATES MORE THAN TWICE THE LEVEL EXPERIENCED BY MILITARY VETERANS, AND THEY EXPERIENCE SUICIDE RATES AT TWICE THE LEVEL OF POLICE OFFICERS.

THIS IS TERRIBLY DANGEROUS STRESSFUL PROFESSION AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE LISTEN TO WHAT THEY'RE SAYING ABOUT THE STRESSES OF THAT JOB.

>> LET ME ASK QUICKLY BEFORE WE FINISH, JENNY.

HOW ABOUT GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S ROLE IN THIS?

DID SHE HANDLE THIS WELL OR NO?

>> IT'S A VERY TOUGH POSITION.

IF SHE HAD COME OUT EVEN STRONGER AND EXECUTED MASS FIRINGS, WHICH POTENTIALLY SHE COULD HAVE DONE BECAUSE THE STRIKE WAS ILLEGAL, THEN WHAT?

RIGHT?

BECAUSE NOW YOU HAVE NO CORRECTION OFFICERS OR VERY FEW IN SEVERAL OF THE FACILITIES.

AND YOU CAN'T HAVE NATIONAL GUARD AS YOUR TEMPORARY, YOU KNOW, LEADING POTENTIALLY LONG-TERM.

SO IT'S A VERY TOUGH POSITION SHE WAS IN.

>> IT'S A TOUGH POSITION AND I'M SURE WE WILL TALK ABOUT THIS AGAIN.

LET ME MOVE US TO OUR SECOND TOPIC.

TODAY'S THE DAY SET OUT AS A NATIONWIDE ECONOMIC PROTEST• A GRASSROOTS GROUP IS ASKING EVERYONE TO MAKE A STATEMENT BY NOT SHOPPING AT MAJOR RETAILERS.

IT SEEMS THIS SO-CALLED ECONOMIC BLACKOUT STARTED AS PROTEST AGAINST CORPORATIONS WHO DROPPED THEIR DIVERSITY PROGRAMMING, BUT HAS MORPHED INTO PROTESTS ON HIGH FOOD PRICES AND THE FEDERAL WORKER LAYOFFS.

I'M WONDERING, CHAD, CAN THIS ECONOMIC BOYCOTT MAKE A DIFFERENCE?

>> NO.

IT'S ABSURD.

AND IT POINTS TO THE DEMOCRATS INABILITY TO FOCUS.

BRADEN KING IS A NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR AND HE HAS ARGUED THE MOST SUCCESSFUL BOYCOTTS ARE THE ONES THAT GENERATE MEDIA COVERAGE TYPICALLY TO A SINGLE HIGH PROFILE COMPANY.

SIMILARLY, CASSANDRA TOMLIN, AN ECONOMIST AT OAKLAND UNIVERSITY FOUND THAT FIRMS WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF COMPETITION EXPERIENCE LARGER NEGATIVE BOYCOTT EFFECTS SO, IN SHORT, FOCUS ON TESLA.

THE REALITY IS THAT THE MEDIAN VOTER, THEY ACTUALLY WANT FIRMS TO PULL BACK FROM THE DEI DIVERSITY STUFF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

BUT THE MEDIAN VOTER DOES NOT WANT AN UNELECTED OLIGARCH TO HAVE THE POWER TO FIRE HALF OF THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE WHICH IS BASICALLY WHAT ELON MUSK HAS THREATENED TO DO THIS WEEK.

TESLA SHOULD BE THE FOCUS OF DEMOCRATS IRE RIGHT NOW.

FOCUS ON THAT BOYCOTT.

THIS WHOLE ALL RETAIL THING IS JUST-- >> I DON'T THINK IT'S EITHER OR AND I JUST WANT TO DO A LITTLE CORRECTION HERE.

IT'S NOT NGO OR THE OUTFIT DOING IT HAS EXPLICITLY SAID ON THEIR WEBSITE THEY'RE NEITHER DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN AND THEY HAVE ALL IN THEIR...

I AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE YOU KNOW, IF YOU TALK AROUND, YOU WOULD SEE THAT MANY DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN VOTERS ACTUALLY AGREE ON A LOT OF THIS CORPORATE AGREED, THIS INSANE LEVELS OF THREATENING BY AMAZON AND OTHER COMPANIES TO, YOU KNOW, AGAINST UNIONS, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, WAL-MART, WHERE MANY PEOPLE HAVING FULL TIME JOBS THERE STILL HAVING TO DEPEND ON SUPPLEMENTAL NUTRITION.

THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE NORMAL AND WE SHOULD OF COURSE DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

WHETHER OR NOT THE BOYCOTT WORKS OR NOT, ASK THE BRITISH EMPIRE AND GANDHI AND SOUTH AFRICA AND ISRAEL IS ALWAYS WORRIED ABOUT BY COULD THES HITTING THEM SO WHEN YOU SAY BOYCOTTS DON'T WORK, I DON'T SEE THE EVIDENCE BUT I DO AGREE THAT IN THIS CASE IN A SMALL LIMITED WAY, IT MIGHT NOT ACHIEVE THE EFFECT THEY DON'T WANT TO.

IT'S FREE SPEECH.

IF I DON'T WANT TO BUY YOUR STUFF, I DON'T BUY YOUR STUFF.

IT'S OKAY.

>> BOYCOTTS DON'T HAVE TYPICALLY MUCH IMPACT ECONOMICALLY BUT THE YOUNGER MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC RECOGNIZE THEIR PURCHASING POWER HAS A POLITICAL ASPECT TO IT AND SO I THINK AT THIS MOMENT, WHERE PEOPLE ARE FEELING THAT THINGS ARE OUT OF CONTROL, THEY'RE NOT SURE HOW TO RESPOND, THIS IS ONE WAY.

IT'S A SMALL WAY THAT THEY CAN HAVE SOME WAY TO VOICE THEIR DISPLEASURE THROUGH THIS ACTIVE OF-- THIS ACT OF ECONOMIC PROTEST.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I FIND INTERESTING ABOUT THIS BOYCOTT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT COULD HAVE HAD AN EFFECT, BUT I AGREE WITH CHAD.

IT'S WAY TOO BROAD, OKAY?

AND IT'S INTERESTING IN HOW THE BOYCOTT INFORMATION WAS DERIVED BECAUSE DEPENDING ON HOW YOU HEARD ABOUT IT, THAT ALSO DIRECTED WHAT YOU ARE BOYCOTTING ABOUT.

FOR EXAMPLE, I HEARD A MINISTER LAST SUNDAY SAY WE ARE BOYCOTTING TARGET, VERY SPECIFICALLY TARGET BECAUSE TARGET MADE I BELIEVE IT WAS 1.5 BILLION COMMITMENT TO INCREASE DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION, ET CETERA, AND TARGET PULLED BACK ON THAT.

SO WE ARE BOYCOTTING TARGET.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT FOCUSES PEOPLE'S ATTENTION, AS YOU STATE, ON ONE GOAL.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS RELATIVELY EASY TO DO.

AND IT CAN SHOW AN IMMEDIATE IMPACT BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT BOYCOTTSINGS-- BOYCOTTS IF YOU DON'T HAVE IMMEDIATE SUCCESS, THEY DON'T TEND TO BE SUCCESSFUL SO I THINK THIS CAN WORK BUT IT NEEDS MUCH MORE GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION AND MUCH MORE FOCUS.

>> A BOYCOTT CAN CALL ATTENTION TO AN ISSUE BUT WHAT IS IT CALLING ATTENTION TO?

HERE'S THE LEFT WHO IS IDENTIFYING THIS NEBULOUS THING CALLED CORPORATIONS AS SOME SORT OF INHERENTLY EVIL KIND OF THING.

>> IT'S NOT NEBULOUS-- >> IT'S A BOOGIE MAN TO THE LEFT-- >> THE BOOGEY MAN TO THE RIGHT YOU LOOK AT REPUBLICANS WHO TALK ABOUT CORPORATE AGREED ALL THE TIME.

>> AGREED IS A THING.

>> IT IS A THING.

>> IT IS CALLING ATTENTION TO THIS NOTHINGNESS.

LIKE AND-- >> DEI STUFF I UNDERSTAND YEAH.

>> WHERE YOU HAD SAID IT'S NOT AN EITHER OR THING.

THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY COST ASSOCIATED WITH ANY ACTION.

IF YOU ARE DEVOTING YOURSELF TO THIS, IT'S TAKING TIME AWAY FROM OTHER THINGS THAT CAN BE MORE PRODUCTIVE.

LIKE THE TARGETING THE ACTUAL CORPORATIONS OVERALL ARE NOT THE PROBLEM.

ELON MUSK IS A REAL PROBLEM.

IF YOU SPENT YOUR RESOURCES, YOU SPENT YOUR ENERGY ON THAT, YOU WOULD BE MORE CREDIBLE, YOU WOULD BE MORE SUCCESSFUL.

>> BUT I THINK AGAIN PEOPLE FEEL VERY FRUSTRATED THAT THE COMPANIES THAT THEY PUT THEIR HARD EARNED DOLLARS TO HAVE WALKED BACK ON VALUES THAT THEY HOLD.

SO GOING BACK TO THE TARGET EXAMPLE, I THINK THAT'S A TERRIFIC EXAMPLE.

>> THAT'S THE DEI ONE RIGHT?

>> YES.

THIS IS AWE WAUGH FOR PEOPLE TO SAY OKAY FINE, COMPANIES YOU ARE GOING WALK THIS BACK?

THEN WE ARE NOT GOING TO CONTINUE TO GIVE OUR DOLLARS TO YOU.

>> AND THAT'S WHY I GO BACK TO DEI THE MEDIAN VOTER WANTED A PULL BACK AND IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE, ALL YOU ARE GOING TO DO IS SHIFT WHEN THE CONSUMPTION HAPPENS.

WE ARE BOYCOTTING TODAY BUT TOMORROW WE'LL RETURN AND THAT'S NOT EFFECTIVE EITHER.

>> THIS GROUP WANTS TO HAVE MORE BOYCOTTS.

WE WILL SEE WHAT THE EFFECT IS.

>> DON'T BOYCOTT "THE IVORY TOWER" THOUGH.

>> DON'T BOY BOYCOTT OUR SPONSORS >> YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN THE COMMERCIAL, "WHAT'S IN YOUR WALLET?"

WELL, PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTS TO PUT A GOLD CARD IN THE WALLETS OF MULTI-MILLIONAIRES FROM ABROAD.

THEY'D PAY $5 MILLION DOLLARS AND --IN TURN --GET AN IMMIGRATION VISA THAT GIVES THEM PERMANENT RESIDENCY AND THE ABILITY TO WORK HERE -- PLUS A PATHWAY TO CITIZENSHIP.

THE PRESIDENT THINKS THIS WILL SPUR INVESTMENTS IN THE U.S. AND COULD HELP PAY DOWN THE DEFICIT.

ANIRBAN, IS THIS A GOOD IDEA?

>> I MEAN IT SEEMS ON THE FACE OF IT THAT IT IS A GOOD IDEA, I MEAN THIS HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORD.

EMPEROR TRUMP WANTS THAT.

THAT'S FINE.

BUT THE PROBLEM LIES WITH THE U.S. CONSTITUTION HERE, RIGHT?

BECAUSE ARTICLE 1 SECTION 8 AND VAST AMOUNT OF SUPREME COURT CASES WOULD SUPPORT THAT HE DOESN'T HAVE THE LEGAL AUTHORITY TO UNILATERALLY RESCIND THE ED-5.

>> THE CURRENT PROGRAM.

>> WHERE YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO INVEST A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF MONEY AND CREATED 10 JOBS AT THE LEAST AND HOW THEY'RE CREATED IS A LOT OF WORK THERE.

BUT HE IS SAYING THAT THAT GOES AWAY AND WE ARE DOING THIS NEW GOLD CARD WHERE YOU PUT IN $5 MILLION, AND THERE IS AS FAR AS I KNOW, NO INVESTMENT REQUIREMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT BUT THEY CANNOT DO IT.

THE CONGRESS NEEDS TO PASS IMMIGRATION LAW IN ORDER TO RESCIND ED-5 AND SUPPLANT IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE.

THESE ARE IMMIGRATION LAWS FROM 1990.

THIS WILL BE CHALLENGED IN COURT AND SEEN AS AN EXECUTIVE OUTREACH.

I HAVE THE NATIONAL REVIEW RECENT ARTICLE THAT VEHEMENTLY SAYS THAT NO, HE CAN'T DO THIS.

EB5 PROGRAMS, CONGRESSIONAL LAW.

SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH IT WILL HAPPEN WITHOUT CONGRESS YOU KNOW, PASSING THE LAW.

>> AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT THIS IS THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW THINGS HE HAS DONE WHERE YOU MIGHT GET BILATERAL SUPPORT FROM BOTH SIDES SAYING THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE, THIS IS A VIOLATION OF THE LAW, ET CETERA, BECAUSE HAVE YOU REPUBLICANS WHO ARE JUST AS ANGRY ABOUT WHAT HE IS PROPOSING AS YOU DO DEMOCRATS.

>> SO, I FEEL LIKE THIS IS YET AGAIN ANOTHER DISTRACTION FROM THE CORE ISSUE THOUGH THAT WE ARE FACING IN THE COUNTRY, RIGHT?

WE HAVE TO TAKE LEGAL-- WE NEED TO TALK SERIOUSLY ABOUT LEGAL IMMIGRATION, AND I JUST LEARNED ABOUT A COUPLE IN NEW JERSEY.

THEY CAME TO THE UNITED STATES AND SINCE 2016 HAVE BEEN-- THEY CAME HERE LEGALLY.

THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO HAVE AN ASYLUM CASE FINALLY ADJUDICATED.

SINCE 2016.

AND IN THE MEANTIME, THEY HAVE HAD A CHILD.

THEY STARTED A BUSINESS CALLED JERSEY KEBAB AND IS LOVED IN THE COMMUNITY AND THEY WERE ARRESTED BY ICE THIS WEEK AND THEY ARE HARD WORKING TAX PAYING COMMITTED TO THIS COUNTRY AND THE COMMUNITY.

THEY'RE NOT A THREAT, BUT THEY HAVE BEEN ARRESTED AND FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THIS WHOLE GOLD CARD BUSINESS IS JUST A DISTRACTION FROM THE HARD CONVERSATION WE HAVE TO HAVE AS A COUNTRY ABOUT WHAT OUR VALUE SYSTEMS ARE AND WHO WE REALLY WANT TO NURTURE.

DO WE REALLY WANT A BUNCH OF RICH PEOPLE COMING IN, NOT INVESTING, NOT ENGAGING IN THE COMMUNITY, BASICALLY TRADING IN AN ECONOMY OF PRIVILEGE TO NOT PUT DOWN ROOTS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT TYPICALLY HAPPENS WITH THESE EB-5 PROGRAMS VERSUS PEOPLE WHO COME HERE WHO ARE COMMITTED TO THIS PLACE WHO MAY NOT HAVE A NICKEL TO RUB TOGETHER WITH A QUARTER BUT WHO CARE AND WHO WILL EMBRACE THE VALUES THAT WE HOLD DEARLY.

>> I THINK THIS IS AN INCIDENT WHERE IT'S IMPORTANT TO SEPARATE THE POLICY FROM THE BLUSTER THAT , YOU KNOW, AS WE HAVE SAID, EB-5 HAS EXISTED SINCE 1990, BECAME POPULAR DURING THE GREAT RECESSION BECAUSE DEVELOPERS COULDN'T GET DOMESTIC LOANS AND TURNED TO FOREIGN SOURCES, THEY TURNED TO EB-5 INVESTORS.

>> INCLUDING THE PRESIDENT.

>> WELL, SO WHAT?

I MEAN IT WAS A PROFITABLE VENTURE, A WAY TO GET MONEY.

IT'S NOT A PARTICULARLY POPULAR PROGRAM EITHER AMONG IMMIGRANTS OR POLICYMAKERS.

BASICALLY WHAT I THINK HE IS RECOMMENDING HERE IS INCREASING THE PRICE.

IT'S STILL INVESTMENT, YOU GOT TO PIE $5 MILLION TO PUBLIC COFFERS INSTEAD OF $1.8 MILLION IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR WHICH YOU CAN THEN PULL OUT LATER.

SO IN THOSE WAYS, IT WOULD MAKE MORE MONEY FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND FOR MAYBE FOR THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE NOT PARTICULARLY UNIQUE IN DOING THIS.

IN FACT GREECE HAS A GOLDEN VISA SO EVEN THE NAME ISN'T PARTICULARLY INNOVATIVE.

SO THAT'S WHY I SAY LIKE THIS IS JUST-- INCREASING THE PRICE OF AN EXISTING VISA.

>> COULD THIS HELP THE DEFICIT?

>> HE IS SAYING HE IS GOING TO SELL A MILLION OF THOSE, BUT-- >> THAT'S BLUSTER.

>> THAT IS DEFINITELY BLUSTER.

I TOTALLY AGREE.

AGAIN, I'M FLUMMOXED BECAUSE CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL IS NEEDED AND HE IS SAYING I DON'T NEED CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL.

I DON'T BELIEVE IT.

I'M NOT A CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR BUT I TEACH... >> SO SHOULD CONGRESS GO ALONG WITH IT?

>> IF THE CONGRESS-- YES, I'M SURE, I MEAN I THINK THERE SHOULD BE SOME VETTING ABOUT WHERE THIS MONEY IS COMING FROM AND ALSO LOOKING AT OTHER EXPERIENCES OF OTHER COUNTRIES.

THEY WALKED IT BACK.

MANY OF THE COUNTRIES STARTED IT AND WALKED IT BACK FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

>> POTENTIALLY TALKING ABOUT RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS WHO CAN PLUNK DOWN THEIR CASH-- >> WE ARE ALREADY POTENTIALLY TALKING ABOUT THAT.

AGAIN THIS IS SMALL POTATOES.

$10,000 VISA AYEAR AT 2 MILLION A POP.

RAISE IT TO FIVE MILLION, I DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO BE THAT POPULAR.

RUSSIAN OLIGARCHS PREFER EUROPE ANYWAY.

IT'S EASIER TO BUY THEIR WAY INTO THERE.

>> AND EB 2 AND EB 3 ARE ALREADY THERE.

>> DO YOU THINK CORPORATIONS MIGHT USE IT TO GET SPECIFIC TALENT IN?

>> I THINK IT WOULD BE ONE MORE TOOL THAT THEY CAN USE, CERTAINLY.

BUT I THINK REALISTICALLY, YOU KNOW, MOST OF THE PEOPLE EVEN THAT THEY WOULD GET WOULD COME HERE, DO THE JOB THAT THEY NEED TO DO, AND THEN MAINTAIN THEIR HOME BASE WHEREVER THEY'RE FROM.

>> I DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT LOGIC THOUGH.

THIS IS STATUS GOES TO THE INDIVIDUAL NOT THE FIRM.

>> WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE BECAUSE IT'S TIME TO OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK BOOK.

ANIRBAN, YOUR F. >> TO FBI OFFICIALS FOR URGING THE NATION'S PREMIER UMBRELLA ORGANIZATIONS OF SCIENTISTS, ACADEMICS AND ATTORNEYS PRACTICING IN RESEARCHING AND LITIGATING SCIENCE ISSUES TO TO CANCEL A CONFERENCE PRESENTATION TITLED TAKING ON THE FBI.

THEY INTERCEPTED REPORTS THERE WAS IRE FROM THE PART OF THE AGENCY FOR ACADEMIC CONFERENCES TO ALLOW PEOPLE LIKE TIFFANY ROY WHO REGULARLY CHALLENGES FBI'S WORK, TO SPEAK AND THIS IS KIND OF FEB CENSORSHIP THAT TRUMP IS TRYING TO STOP.

>> JENNY, YOUR F. >> MY F GO IS TO AN A.I.

GENERATED VIDEO THAT TRUMP SHARED ON TRUE SOCIAL REPORTED BY THE GUARDIAN AND IT SHOWS THE CURRENT GAZA THIS RUINS AND ASKS WHAT'S NEXT?

IT THEN SHOWS A COUPLE WALKING OUT OF WHAT LOOSE LOOKS LIKE A CAVE INTO A SEEMING PARADISE OF HOTELS, PALM TREES, BEACHES AND TESLAS AND A GIANT GOLDEN STATUE OF DONALD TRUMP,Y ELON MUSK EATING HUM US AND PITA AND MONEY RAINING FROM THE SKY.

THE CONTINUES ON TRUE SOCIAL SAY BETTER THAN I COULD, HOW IMMORAL IN VIDEO IS.

ONE SAID MANY OF YOUR SUPPORT ERTS ARE TRULY OFFENDED TO THIS VIDEO.

IT'S DISRESPECTED TO THE DEAD AND INNOCENTS IN GAZA AND MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE YOU THINK YOU ARE A GOD.

WELL SAID.

>> MY F GOES TO WIDESPREAD REPORTS THAT TRUMP'S APPROVAL RATINGS ARE COLLAPSING BECAUSE IT'S NOT TRUE 538 PUTS HIS FAVORITE RATING FIVE POINTS ABOVE WHAT IT WAS ON ELECTION DAY AND THE LEFT WANTS TO JUSTIFY THE REPORTS OF THEM DOING NOTHING AND TRUMP WILL HURT THEMSELVES.

AMERICA IS HUNGRY FOR A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE.

PLEASE GET TO WORK.

>> MY F GOES TO 10 CLAUDIA TENNEY.

SHE FEELS THAT TRUMP IS THE FOUNDER OF AMERICA'S GOLD ERIN AGE AND THE HOLIDAY WILL ENSLOIN HIS CONTRIBUTIONS TO AMERICA INTO LAW.

>> QUICKLY NOW FROM OUR AS.

>> TO MORE THAN 350 RABBIS ALONGSIDE ADDITIONAL SIGNATORIES INCLUDING JEWISH ACTIVISTS WHO SIGNED AN AD IN THE NEW YORK TIMES IN WHICH THEY CONNECTICUT DEMANDED THE ADMINISTRATION'S PROPOSAL FOR ETHNIC CLEANSING OF PALESTINIANS FROM GAZA.

>> MY A GO TO THE 2 IS EMPLOYEES OF THE FORMER DIGITAL SERVICES AGENTEDCY ASSUMED BY MUSK'S GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY EFFORT.

THESE EMPLOYMENTS ARE ALL TRYING LIKE CRAZE TOE GET YOU AND THE PUBLIC TO SEE THE INJUSTICES THAT ARE HAPPENING ACROSS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THEY ARE SACRIFICING THEIR ECONOMIC SECURITY AND REPUTATIONS FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

MY QUESTION TO YOU IS ARE YOU LISTENING.

>> CHAD.

>> MY A GOES TO HHS SECRETARY RFK, JR. AND AGRICULTURE SECRETARY BROOK ROLLINS FOR THEIR ATTEMPT TO BAN CANDY AND SUGARY FOODS FROM SNAP BENEFITS.

THEY'RE RIGHT IN PRINCIPLE WHEN THEY ARGUE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE SUBSIDIZING PEOPLE TO EAT POISON.

>> AND TARA.

>> I HAD THE SAME A AS JENNY.

KUDOS TO THOSE EMPLOYEES TO ARE STANDING UP TO ELON MUSK.

>> IT IS INTERESTING THE COST THAT THIS IS TO PEOPLE AND TO THEIR FAMILIES.

WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH THEM OR NOT, ONE HAS TO RESPECT THAT THEY HAVE MADE THIS HARD DECISION.

>> MY BROTHER WORKS FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND IT HAS BEEN VERY CHALLENGING.

>> IS HE STAYING?

>> EVERY DAY IS AN UNKNOWN DAY.

>> ALL RIGHT.

WELL, WE WELCOME YOUR COMMENTS ON THIS SHOW OR YOUR SUGGESTIONS FOR TOPICS.

FEEL FREE TO WRITE US AT ANY OF THE ADDRESSES ON THE SCREEN.

YOU CAN WATCH US ON TV FRIDAY NIGHTS AT 8 AND SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30.

AND WE STREAM ON WCNY'S YOU TUBE PAGE AND ITS WEBSITE.

HOPE YOU TUNE IN AGAIN.

BE WELL AND GOOD NIGHT.

AND RELATIONSHIP HAM DAN FOR THOSE WHO ARE OBSERVING.

GOOD NIGHT.