BIDEN'S WAR ON POVERTY... BLACK AND BROWN VACCINE HESITANCY • AND, JOE MANCHIN GOES TO WASHINGTON.

STAY TUNED.

IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING AND, WELCOME TO IVORY OWER.

WE ARE GRATEFUL THAT YOU'RE JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

HERE TO OFFER INSIGHTS ON THIS WEEK'S NEWS ARE: KRISTI ANDERSEN OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, JAMILA MICHENER OF CORNELL UNIVERSITY, RICK FENNER OF UTICA COLLEGE, AND BEN BAUGHMAN OF CAZENOVIA COLLEGE.

ONE OF THE DISTINCTIONS OF IVORY TOWER IS THAT IT FEATURES SCHOLARS WHOSE RESEARCH AND TEACHING FOCUS ON MANY OF THE SHOW'S TOPICS.

FOR THIS SHOW, WE CAN DO A DEEP DIVE INTO PRESIDENT BIDEN'S PLANS TO EXPAND THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET AND PULL MORE AMERICANS OUT OF POVERTY.

THE PLAN HAS A BIG PRICE TAG, BUT STATISTICS SHOW THE POVERTY RATE WAS DECLINING BEFORE THE PANDEMIC RECESSION.

PLUS COVID RELIEF FUNDS REDUCED THE POVERTY RATE FURTHER.

SO, LET'S ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND UNPACK THIS.

DO CURRENT POVERTY STATISTICS SUPPORT BIDEN'S PLAN FOR MORE SPENDING ON THIS FRONT, OR DO THE STATISTICS SUGGEST THAT WE CAN START TO ROLL BACK AS THE ECONOMY IMPROVES?

>> THE SHORT ANSWER IS THAT CURRENT POVERTY STATISTICS ABSOLUTELY REINFORCE THE NEED FOR THE KINDS OF INTERVENTIONS THAT WE SEE IN BIDEN'S PLAN.

IT'S TEMPTING TO SAY, WELL, POVERTY STATISTICS WERE OR POVERTY RATES WERE AT A RELATIVE LOW GOING INTO THE PANDEMIC AND THE DIFFERENT FORMS OF STIMULUS AND ECONOMIC INTERVENTIONS THAT WE SAW IN PARTICULAR FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BUT ALSO IN SOME CASES FROM STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS LOWERED THE POVERTY RATE EVEN FURTHER SO NOW WE ARE GOOD.

WE HAVE HISTORICALLY POVERTY RATE.

WEEK SAY WE ARE DONE.

THE JOB HAS BEEN DONE AND THE GOVERNMENT CAN MOVE ON AND STOP SPENDING MONEY.

THAT'S A TEMPTATION.

BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT INTERVENTION WHAT IS ACCOUNTS FOR THOSE HISTORICALLY LOW POVERTY RATES.

SO TO SAY NOW WE SHOULD PULL BACK, WELL WHAT WILL HAPPEN IS THAT WE WILL SEE THE POVERTY RATES TICK BACK UP AND IT'S ALSO WORTH POINTING OUT WHAT LOW MEANS.

EVEN IN THIS CONTEXTER WITH WE ARE SAYING THERE ARE HISTORICALLY LOW POVERTY RATES, THERE ARE STILL UPWARDS OF 40 MILLION OF AMERICANS LIVING IN POVERTY, RIGHT?

>> WOW.

>> LOW DOESN'T MEAN THAT POVERTY ISN'T A PROBLEM.

IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT WE HAVE SOLVED THE ISSUE.

AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO CONTINUE TO SORT OF PROVIDE RESOURCES TO THOSE VULNERABLE POPULATIONS, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE THEY'RE THE FOLKS WHO ARE HARDEST HIT WHEN ANY KIND OF CHALLENGE LIKE THE PANDEMICKY EMERGES AND WHO ARE LAST TO BOUNCE BACK EVEN AS IT FEELS THAT WE ARE IN A PERIOD OF RECOVERY.

>> I THINK WE SHOULD ALSO, PARTICULARLY IN THE FOCUS ON CHILDREN, I THINK, IS IMPORTANT.

AND THAT HELPS US THINK ABOUT, WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO HAPPEN, POVERTY MITIGATION AS AN INVESTMENT RATHER THAN JUST A HANDOUT.

THE STATISTICS AND THE STUDIES SHOW THAT THINGS THAT WE DO TO HELP CHILDREN, TO HELP CHILDREN'S PARENTS KNOW HOW TO PARENT, TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILDREN AT A YOUNG AGE ARE HEALTHY AND REMAIN SO, TO MAKE SURE THAT CHILDREN HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY FOR GOOD PRESCHOOL EDUCATION, THOSE INVESTMENTS PAY BACK MANY TIMES OVER IN TERMS OF PEOPLE NOT BEING INCARCERATED, KIDS THAT ARE HEALTHY AND GET GOOD EARLY EDUCATION ARE MORE LIKELY TO GRADUATE FROM HIGH SCHOOL, MORE LIKELY TO GO TO COLLEGE, MORE LIKELY TO HAVE JOBS AND MORE LIKELY TO BE TAXPAYERS.

SO IT REALLY KIND OF, TALKING ABOUT WELL, SHOULD WE STOP THIS HELP, MAKES ME ANNOYED BECAUSE I THINK WE ARE THINKING ABOUT THIS , THESE PROGRAMS OR POLICIES IN THE WRONG WAY.

>> I TOTALLY AGREE.

I THINK THE HELP AND THE BENEFITS THAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO HAVE BEEN EMERGENCY HELP THAT HAVE KEPT PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE BIDEN PLAN, MOST OF THE THINGS THAT ARE IN THERE ARE TRYING TO DEAL WITH THE STRUCTURAL LONG-TERM ISSUES THAT AFFECT POVERTY SUCH AS, YOU KNOW, CHILD CARE, EDUCATION AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND WE HAVE A FAR WAY TO GO IN ORDER TO INCREASE THIS AND KEEP OUR DOWNWARD TREND ON THE POVERTY RATE GOING.

I DO HAVE SOME CONCERNS, FOR INSTANCE, YOU KNOW, THE EXPANSION OF MEDICARE, THE LOWERING OF THE AGE ELIGIBILITY AND EXPANDING BENEFITS.

CURRENTLY THE FINANCING OF THE BASIC MEDICARE PROGRAM IS NOT ON GOOD FOOTING SO I DO WORRY A LITTLE BIT THAT WE ARE IGNORING TRYING TO ENSURE THAT THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE HAVE IS WORKING WELL AND WE ARE PUTTING MORE EMPHASIS ON ADDING NEW PROGRAMS.

I WOULD BE A LITTLE MORE COMFORTABLE IF PERHAPS THERE WAS PART OF THE PLAN THAT SHORED UP MEDICARE TO START WITH.

>> THAT SHORED UP THE MEDICARE TO START WITH AND DEFINITELY WE WANT TO GET TO YOU NEXT, BEN, BUT IN THINKING ABOUT THAT COMMENT AND ALSO THE EARLIER COMMENTS ABOUT THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT OF POLICY OF THINKING ABOUT INVESTMENT, I DO WANT TO GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE THINKING ON THE PART OF SOME PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THIS SHOW WHO BELIEVE THAT, IN ADDITION TO GOVERNMENT, THERE IS ALSO ACTIONS THAT ARE TAKEN BY THOSE WHO LIVE IN POVERTY AND WE'VE HEARD THE PHRASE "CULTURE OF POVERTY" DOES THAT HAVE ANY CREDENCE AT ALL?

WHERE DO WE SITUATE THAT IN THIS DISCUSSION?

>> I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, AND I'LL JUST BE REALLY FRANK AND SAY NO, I DON'T THINK IT HAS MUCH CREDENCE AT ALL.

FROM A SCHOLARLY PERSPECTIVE, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF EMPIRICAL SUPPORT OR RESEARCH THAT SAYS THE ATTITUDE OF PEOPLE IN POVERTY IS DISTINCT CAUSING THEM TO BE IN POVERTY.

NOW IT'S REALLY EASY TO LOOK AT PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY AND THINK THAT.

BUT WHEN WE LOOK AT DIFFERENT PAVER BEHAVIORS LIKE SUBSTANCE USE AND ABUSE, ALCOHOL USE AND EVEN, YOU KNOW, WORK PATTERNS AND HABITS OVER THE LIFE COURSE, YOU CAN POINT TO WHATEVER THE BEHAVIOR IS, YOU CAN POINT TO WHATEVER THE ATTITUDES IS, ATTITUDES TOWARDS WORK AND EMPLOYMENT, ATTITUDES TOWARD WORK ETHIC AND SO ON AND SO FORTH AND WE DON'T FIND SYSTEMATIC DIFFERENCES OVER THE LIFE COURSE OF PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY AND EVERYONE ELSE.

THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE LAZY LIVING IN POVERTY IN THE MIDDLE-CLASS AND UPPER CLASS.

THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE ALCOHOLICS AND ABUSE DRUGS, BUT FOR PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY, THOSE SAME WEAKNESSES, HUMAN FLAWS, LEAD TO THEM LIVING AT A STANDARD OF LIVING THAT IS REALLY BELOW WHAT BEFITS THE U.S. AS A COUNTRY AND HUMANITY, REALLY, TO BE ANN FRANK BUT IT'S NOT A MATTER OF CULTURE.

IT REALLY IS A MATTER OF PROVIDING RESOURCES SO THAT EVERYBODY LIVES ABOVE A PARTICULAR STANDARD BECAUSE WE ARE PERFECTLY ABLE TO DO THAT IN THIS COUNTRY.

>> EXCELLENT POINT.

>> AND I DO THINK THAT KRISTI'S POINT ABOUT INVESTING INTO OUR CHILDREN AND THEIR FORMATIVE YEARS, IT DOES IMPACT WHAT THEY DO LATER ON IN LIFE; THEIR ABILITY TO MOVE OUT OF POVERTY.

AND I THINK SUSTAINABILITY IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT RICK HIT ON WITH, YES, WE ARE DOING EMERGENCY AID AT THIS POINT.

BUT WHAT IS SUSTAINABLE OVER TIME AND I DO THINK INVESTING IN OUR CHILDREN IS WHERE IT'S AT.

>> ANOTHER POINT TO RAISE HERE IS THAT THE POVERTY LINE IS NOT VERY HIGH.

IT'S ABOUT $25,000 FOR A FAMILY OF FOUR, TWO ADULTS AND TWO CHILDREN.

SO TO SAY THAT WE HAVE 40 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING IN THIS COUNTRY IN HOUSEHOLDS THAT DON'T EVEN SURPASS THAT LOW LEVEL, I THINK, FOR A WEALTHY NATION LIKE OURS, IS NOT SOMETHING TO BE SEPTIONLY VERY PROUD OF.

>> NOT PROUD OF BECAUSE WE HAVE RACIAL DISPARITIES ACROSS THE BOARD AS WELL THAT WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT.

SO FAR JAMILA TOUCHED ON IT IN CONNECTION WITH POVERTY AND WE ARE GOING TO SEE THE SAME THING AS WE MOVE TO THE NEXT STORY.

WE'VE HEARD IN THE NEWS, HOW CERTAIN AMERICANS ARE MORE LIKELY TO GET VACCINATED THAN OTHERS.

OKAY, THE TRUTH IS WE'VE HEARD A LOT OVER PAST MONTHS ABOUT HOW TRUMP VOTERS AND RURAL, WHITE, CONSERVATIVE MALES ARE MORE VACCINE-HESITANT THAN OTHERS, BUT A RECENT STUDY OUT OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ARKANSAS SHOWS THAT IT'S ACTUALLY AFRICAN AMERICANS AND LATINOS WHO ARE LEAST LIKELY TO GET VACCINATED.

GIVEN THAT BLACK AND BROWN COMMUNITIES ARE MORE LIKELY TO SUFFER SEVERE ILLNESS AND ALSO DIE FROM COVID COMPLICATIONS: HOW DO WE EXPLAIN THIS STUDY'S FINDING OF A RACIAL AND ETHNIC DISPARITY IN VACCINATION RATES?

I'LL TURN TO YOU, KRISTI TO ASK.

>> I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF WAYS TO EXPLAIN IT.

ONE THAT ISN'T A VERY GOOD EXPLANATION IS, WHICH I HEAR PROPOUNDED A LOT, IS THAT BLACK PEOPLE ARE SKEPTICAL BECAUSE OF DOES TUSKEGEE, THINGS THAT WERE DONE IN THE PAST, EXPERIMENTATION, DECEPTION AND SO ON IN MEDICAL TRIALS.

THERE IS VERY LITTLE EVIDENCE FOR THAT THAT PEOPLE REALLY KNOW ABOUT THAT AND CARE ABOUT IT AND TIE IT TO THE CURRENT VACCINE SITUATION.

BUT, I DO THINK THAT WE OFTEN-- YOU READ TALK TO YOUR DOCTOR ABOUT THE VACCINE.

IF YOU ARE HESITANT, TALK TO YOUR HEALTHCARE PROVIDER.

I THINK IT'S THE CASE THAT PEOPLE LIVING IN POVERTY AND THAT PEOPLE BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE TEND-- ARE LESS LIKELY TO HAVE A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER, LESS LIKELY TO HAVE PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN TALK TO IN THAT WAY.

THEY'RE GOING TO EMERGENCY ROOMS, THEY'RE GOING TO CLINICS AND SO ON AND THEY DON'T HAVE THAT BACKUP I THINK THERE IS-- SECONDLY I THINK THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE REASONING-- THE REASONS GIVEN OR THE REASONS THAT ARE MOTIVATING POOR WHITE TRUMP VOTERS AND YOU KNOW, BLACK PEOPLE LIVING IN CITIES AND I WOULD CALL THE FORMER REFUSERS AND THE LATTER MORE HESITANT.

I ALSO THINK THAT BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE ARE MUCH MORE LIKELY TO HAVE WHAT WE HAVE BEEN CALLING ESSENTIAL JOBS, JOBS THAT HAVE UNPREDICTABLE HOURS, LESS OPPORTUNITY TO GO AND GET A VACCINE, PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ISSUES AND SO ON.

SO THERE IS A LOT OF EXPLANATIONS BUT THOSE GROUPS THAT YOU MENTIONED ARE VERY DIFFERENT PEOPLE AND I THINK ARE APPROACHING THE VACCINATION ISSUE IN VERY DIFFERENT WAYS.

>> I THINK YOU ARE SAYING SOME THING REALLY FASCINATING.

YOU ARE SAYING WITH RESPECT TO BLACK AND BROWN HESITANCY, IT'S PARTLY A QUESTION OF ACCESS TO MEDICAL CARE AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDERS AND ALSO ACCESS TO JUST HEALTHCARE.

AND SO THAT'S PARTLY ABOUT RESOURCES.

>> YEAH.

>> WHAT DO THE REST OF YOU THINK?

>> I WANT TO REINFORCE AND EXTEND SOMETHING THAT I THINK KRISTI IS POINTING OUT HERE, WHICH IS IT'S A BIT APPLES AND ORANGES TO COMPARE SORT OF RURAL WHITE CONSERVATIVE MALES TO BLACK AND LATINO COMMUNITIES AND SAY WELL, THERE IS VACCINE HESITANCY IN BOTH.

AND OF COURSE THIS IS A POLITICAL TOOL THAT CAN BE USED TO DEFLECT.

LOOK OVER HERE, IT'S THE BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE.

LET'S BLAME THEM.

>> WHICH HAS HAPPENED.

>> IELINGS EASY TO DO.

IT'S SOMETHING TO BE AWARE OF AND IT'S APPLES AND ORANGES.

THE THINGS WE HAVE BEEN POINTING OUT, THE BARRIERS, ESPECIALLY IN COMMUNITIES OF COLOR, ARE LARGELY STRUCTURAL.

NOW I WILL SAY THIS.

THERE ARE ISSUES WITH TRUST.

THOSE TRUST ISSUES AREN'T ROOTED IN JUST WHAT'S HAPPENED HISTORICALLY.

THEY'RE ROOTED IN PEOPLE'S CONTEMPORARY EXPERIENCES.

SOME OF THOSE EXPERIENCES ARE EXPERIENCES NOT BEING ABLE TO ACCESS HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS SO WHY DO YOU TRUST THEM?

SOME OF THEM ARE NEGATIVE EXPERIENCES WHEN YOU DO ACCESS THEM.

IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT TRUST ISN'T A FACTOR AT ALL.

IT'S JUST NOT ABOUT MEDICAL EXPERIMENTS FROM HOWEVER MANY YEARS AGO.

I JUST AND I ALSO WOULD WANT TO ADD THE EXTENT OF POTENTIAL BARRIERS CAN SO EASILY BE UNDERESTIMATED.

PEOPLE ARE BOOKING VACCINE APPOINTMENTS ON THE INTERNET.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE INTERNET ACCESS, THAT'S CHALLENGING.

PEOPLE ARE DRIVING TO VACCINE APPOINTMENTS IN THEIR CARS.

IF YOU DON'T HAVE A CAR AND YOU LIVE SOMEPLACE WHERE PUBLIC TRANSPORT IS DIFFICULT, THAT'S CHALLENGING.

LANGUAGE BARRIERS ARE A CHALLENGE.

EVEN IDENTIFICATION BARRIERS.

PEOPLE OF COLOR ARE MUCH LESS LIKELY TO HAVE PHOTO I.D.

IT'S BARRIER AFTER BARRIER AND SO I EVEN THINK CALLING IT HESITANCY IS TOO MUCH BECAUSE THAT'S ABOUT INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR ORIENTATION TOWARDS VACCINE.

IT'S REALLY ABOUT BARRIERS.

>> YEAH, AND WHAT I WOULD SHARE IS SOME CONCERNS WITH THE STUDY.

THE STUDY ONLY INVOLVED 1200 PEOPLE AND IT WAS DONE LAST YEAR SO IT'S OUT OF DATE, IN MY OPINION.

IT WAS A SMALL SAMPLE IN ARKANSAS AND IT WAS DONE ONLINE TO SPEAK TO YOUR POINT.

I THINK THE BIGGER THING IS THE FEAR FACTOR.

THAT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH PEOPLE'S EMOTIONS IN ORDER TO REASON WITH THEM.

YOU CAN'T REASON WITH FEAR.

AND I THINK THAT TRUST COMPONENT IS REALLY WHAT'S HOLDING A LOT OF PEOPLE BACK AND EVEN THE STUDY POINTED TO THAT WITH ALMOST-- WELL, 11 TIMES GREATER FOR RESPONDENTS WITH LOW TRUST IN VACCINES.

SO THAT WAS ONE OF THE BIG TAKEAWAYS WAS THE SAMPLE SIZE.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER PROBLEMS WITH THE STUDY, AND I DON'T WANT TO SAY IT WAS ALL PROBLEMATIC BECAUSE THERE IS SOME VALUE TO IT, IS THAT IT WAS, IN FACT, CONDUCTED DURING THE PANDEMIC.

RIGHT?

AND TO WHOM ARE YOU GOING TO HAVE EASIER ACCESS AS COMPARED TO OTHER GROUPS?

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE MANY GROUPS WHO WILL DO AN IN-PERSON OR MANY SURVEYORS WHO WILL GO OUT TO THOSE PLACES OR DO IT ONLINE AS WE'VE POINTED OUT.

RICK, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> I THINK FROM THE STUDIES I'VE SEEN, YOU KNOW, LEADERSHIP ROLES , NOT ONLY IN MEDICINE, BUT FOR BLACK AND BROWN, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR LEADERSHIP FROM THEIR RELIGIONS, PEOPLE OF FAITH.

AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE HAVE THE BEST CHANCE OF TRYING TO CHANGE BEHAVIOR BECAUSE RECENT SURVEY CAME OUT THAT ASKING PEOPLING WHO HAD NOT BEEN VACCINATED, WHAT COULD CAUSE THEM TO GET VACCINATED AND PEOPLE OF COLOR OVERWHELMINGLY, THEY SAID IF THEY HAD ENCOURAGEMENT FROM THEIR RELIGIOUS LEADERS THAT THEY WOULD BE MORE LIKELY TO CONSIDER THAT.

>> PICKING UP ON THAT POINT THOUGH, I WANT TO ASK A POLITICAL QUESTION OF ANYBODY WHO WANTS TO JUMP IN AND ASK, DID DEMOCRATS, TO SOME EXTENT, DROP THE BALL BY INITIALLY FOCUSING ON THE VACCINE HESITANCY OF TRUMP VOTERS?

WAS THERE A WINDOW OF OPPORTUNITY AT THE OUTSET TO NOTICE THAT FOR THE REASONS WE'VE NOTED, THESE STRUCTURAL DIFFERENCES IN ACCESS MIGHT VERY WELL HAVE LED TO THE RACIAL DISPARITY THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT?

SHOULD THAT HAVE BEEN AS MUCH A PART OF THE HEADLINES AS THE FACT THAT YOU HAD THESE REALLY SCEPTICS OF MASKS AND VACCINES?

>> YES.

IS ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THE US VERSUS THEM MENTALITY AND THE DIVISIVENESS OF THIS COUNTRY AT THE MOMENT IS FEEDING INTO IT AND THAT'S WHAT NEEDS TO BE TACKLED MORE SO THAN PITTING POLITICAL PARTIES AGAINST EACH OTHER AND TRYING TO MAKE IT A PLATFORM DISPL.

SO KRISTI, GOING FORWARD, WHAT IS THE ANSWER TO DEAL WITH THIS?

HOW SHOULD IT BE APPROACHED BY POLICY MAKERS?

>> I THINK THAT POLICY MAKERS AT THE LOCAL LEVEL ARE TRYING TO DO THIS.

I MEAN I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND WHO IS A RETIRED NURSE WHO SPENT MANY, MANY MONTHS DURING THE PANDEMIC GIVING VACCINATIONS IN VARIOUS PLACES IN SYRACUSE.

THE ON CENTER AND POPUP PLACE AT BLACK CHURCH AND COMMUNITY CENTERS AND PLACES WHERE THERE WERE A LOT OF IMMIGRANTS.

SO I THINK THE LOCAL FOLKS HERE HAD IT RIGHT.

THEY GOT LOCAL LEADERS TO, YOU KNOW, LEGITIMIZE SETTING UP THESE VACCINATION CENTERS AND MADE IT EASY FOR PEOPLE, RELATIVELY EASY FOR PEOPLE TO GET THERE.

SO TRYING TO BREAK DOWN THE BARRIERS IS WHAT'S NEEDED AND IT HAS TO HAPPEN AT LOCAL LEVELS, I THINK.

>> WE COULD CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT THIS AT LENGTH BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT ISSUE.

BUT I WANT TO SWITCH TO SOMETHING ELSE AND JUST POINT OUT THAT THESE DAYS IT SEEMS LIKE DEMOCRAT SENATOR JOE MANCHIN IS BASICALLY CALLING THE SHOTS IN WASHINGTON D.C.

HE WIELDS A LOT OF POWER OVER SOME BIG-TICKET ITEMS.

THE PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRATS IS THAT MANCHIN OPPOSES A CARVE-OUT TO THE SENATE'S FILIBUSTER FOR VOTING RIGHTS LEGISLATION AND, HE OPPOSES THE $3.5 TRILLION DOLLAR RECONCILIATION PACKAGE THAT FOCUSES ON SOCIAL PROGRAMS.

THE KIND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

WHAT ARE WE TO MAKE OF THE FACT THAT A SINGLE SENATOR FROM WEST VIRGINIA IS ABLE TO BLOCK THE PLANS OF NOT ONLY THE MAJORITY PARTY IN THE SENATE, BUT EVEN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, WHO'S SPENDING A LOT OF TIME LATELY ON THE PHONE WITH SENATOR MANCHIN?

>> YES, THIS IS REALLY A MATH PROBLEM AND NOT A POLITICS PROBLEM.

YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY WHETHER WE HAVE A FILIBUSTER OR NOT, THE DEMOCRATS NEED 50 VOTES TO PASS THEIR PROGRAMS.

AND THEY HAVE 50 MEMBERS.

SO ASSUMING CORRECTLY THAT YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GET REPUBLICANS TO CROSS OVER, THEY NEED EVERY ONE OF THEIR MEMBERS TO STAY IN LINE.

AND THIS ACTUALLY THEORETICALLY GIVES EVERY SENATOR THAT'S A DEMOCRAT A LOT OF LEVERAGE.

IN REALITY, IT'S SENATOR MANCHIN WHO REPRESENTS A VERY CONSERVATIVE STATE THAT HAS BEEN MOST WILLING TO STAND UP AND SAY THAT HE WON'T SUPPORT SOME OF THE PRESIDENT'S PLANS.

NOW TO BE FAIR, THERE ARE OTHER SENATORS, SUCH AS KIRSTEN WHO HAVE ALSO SAID SHE IS NOT WILLING TO HAVE ANYWHERE NEAR $3.5 TRILLION SPENT.

HE IS THE MOST OUTSPOKEN.

BUT I ALSO THINK HE MAY BE DOING THE DEMOCRATS SOMEWHAT OF A FAVOR BECAUSE COMING INTO THE MID TERM ELECTIONS, I THINK STAYING CLOSER TO THE MIDDLE MAY HELP THEM TO AVOID SOME OF THE LOSSES THAT USUALLY GO TO THE PARTY IN POWER DURING MID TERM ELECTIONS.

>> AND WHEN THAT-- WE HAVE THREE MINUTES LEFT SO LET'S GO AROUND THE ROOM.

>> I WAS GOING TO QUICKLY SAY I THINK THE MATH PROBLEM IS ACTUALLY A POLITICAL PROBLEM AND IT GOES DEEPER THAN WHAT RICK SUGGESTEDDED WHICH IS WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM WITH MALAPPORTIONMENT IN THIS COUNTRY ESPECIALLY OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM IN THE SENATE.

THERE ARE TWO MILLION PEOPLE IN WEST VIRGINIA.

WEST VIRGINIA ISN'T REALLY THE SIZE OF A LARGE CITY.

I MEAN IT'S WILD THAT THOSE TWO MILLION PEOPLE THAT THEIR REPRESENTATIVE GETS TO CHANGE THE TRAJECTORY FOR THE WHOLE COUNTRY.

THAT IS A HUGE PROBLEM AND THERE IS SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY UNDEMOCRATIC ABOUT IT.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR MINORITY VIEWS TO HAVE A PRESENCE AND TO BE ABLE TO INFLUENCE POLITICS, BUT FOR TWO MILLION PEOPLE'S REPRESENTATIVE TO HOLD THE REST OF US HOSTAGE, THAT'S NOT RIGHT.

>> AND ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT THAT WHICH NAICS ME ANGRY, THE CONGRESS IS DESIGNED TO REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF ITS CONSTITUENTS.

THE VIEWS OF ITS CONSTITUENTS, ARE THEY SUPPORT ABORTION RIGHTS, THEY SUPPORT TAXING HIGHER TAXES ON THE WEALTHY.

THEY SUPPORT FIGHTING FOR AGAINST CLIMATE CHANGE BUT THAT'S NOT HAPPENING BECAUSE THEIR VIEWS ARE NOT REPRESENTED.

>> WELL I'M GOING DISAGREE WITH BOTH.

I'M IN FAVOR OF HIM SLOWING THINGS DOWN AND REALLY ASKING THE QUESTION OF IT'S NOT SO MUCH HOW MUCH WE ARE SPENDING ABOUT BUT HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR IT.

>> YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

AND IF I COULD, I KNOW WE ARE PRESSED FOR TIME BUT THAT SORT OF GOES BACK PARTLY TO THE OTHER POINT OF SLOWING THINGS DOWN.

THAT'S WHAT HE SAID SHE WANTS TO DO, TO GIVE A STRATEGIC PAUSE.

BUT THE THING IS, NOW IT'S TIME TO GO TO THE GRADE BOOKS.

AND SO WE ARE GOING TO START WITH OUR Fs AND CRIFORTY, KRISTI, YOU ARE GOING TO JUMP US OFF.

>> F TO GOVERNORS ABBOTT AND DETAN ADVERTISE.

THEIR REFUSALS TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO REQUIRE MASKS IS KILLING THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

EVERY DAY SEVEN TIMES MORE PEOPLE DIE OF COVID IN FLORIDA AND TEXAS THAN NEW YORK STATE WHICH HAS ABOUT THE SAME POPULATIONS.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO BALTIMORE CITY SCHOOLS WHICH HAD TO LET CHILDREN OUT EARLY THIS WEEK BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE AIR CONDITIONING AND IT WAS UN10BLY HOT.

AND TO SCHOOLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY THAT HAVE SEEN THE SAME KIND OF PROBLEM, THIS IS WHY INVESTING IN INFRASTRUCTURE REALLY MATTERS.

>> I'M GIVING AN F TO MITCH McCONNELL WHO SAID THAT HE WILL NOT HELP SUPPORT THE DEMOCRATS ATTEMPT TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING.

WE PLAYED THIS GAME BEFORE WITH GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWNS AND THE THREAT OF FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DEFAULTING ON ITS DEBT.

AND THIS IS NOT TO COME UP WITH MONEY TO HELP PAY FOR BIDEN'S NEW PLANS.

THIS IS SIMPLY FOOTING THE BILL FOR SPENDING THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ALREADY APPROVED AND HAVE BENEFITED FROM.

THIS IS IRRESPONSIBLE.

>> YEAH, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY WARNED AUTHORITIES ABOUT POTENTIAL VIOLENCE THIS WEEKEND, TOMORROW, FOR THE JUSTICE J.

SIX RALLY THAT IS PLANNED.

MY F GOES TO THE GROUPS THAT ATTACKED OUR DEMOCRACY ON JANUARY 6 AND ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO CONTINUE TO BACK THEM.

OUR COUNTRY IS BUILT ON DISAGREEMENTS, DIVERSITY AND COUNCIL, RATIONAL DISCOURSE BUT NOT DIVISIVENESS AND HATE.

>> ARE YOU SINGING A TUNE THAT I LOVE TO HEAR BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO RICK'S INITIALLY, YOU SAID THAT McCONNELL IS NOT SUPPORTING RAISING THE DEBT CEILING, BUT HE HAS DONE IT IN THE PAST, RIGHT?

>> AND DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THE DEMOCRATS WORKED WITH THE REPUBLICANS TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING.

>> WE HAVE TO PAY FOR OUR DEBT.

>> AN A TO THE CITIZENS AND POLITICIANS IN CALIFORNIA WHO ARE NOW RETHINKING THE STATE'S RECALL PROCEDURES.

THE RECENT RECALL ELECTION COST $276 MILLION AND COULD HAVE PRODUCED A SITUATION WHERE A NEW GOVERNOR WOULD HAVE BEEN SWORN IN TO OFFICE NOT WITH A MAJORITY BUT ONLY A TINY PLURALITY OF THE VOTE.

THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

>> JAMILA.

>> MY A GOES TO KRISTIN CLARK, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL AT THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

THIS WEEK SHE TOOK STEPS TO A SLEW OF STEPS TO ENSURE THE CRIMINAL LEGAL SYSTEMS IN OUR COUNTRY ARE NOT VIOLATING HUMAN RIGHTS STARTING WITH INVESTIGATIONS OF PRISONS IN GEORGIA WHICH HAVE BEEN FLAGRANTLY COMMITTING HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES.

>> RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO EMMA AND LAYLA, THE TWO TEENAGE PHENOMS SQUARED OFF IN AN INCREDIBLE DISPLAY OF TENNIS IN THE WOMEN'S U.S. OPEN FINALS THIS PAST WEEKEND.

I THINK IT WAS INTERESTING TO NOTE THAT THE WOMEN'S FINALS ACTUALLY OUTDREW THE MEN'S FINAL IN TV RATINGS THIS YEAR.

>> FINALLY, LET'S SEE IF SOME PAY FOLLOWS THAT.

>> EL WITH, THEY GET EQUAL PAY AT THE U.S. OPEN.

>> I DID NOT KNOW THAT, BEN.

>> MY A GOES TO GEORGE W. BUSH FOR HIS SPEECH THAT HE GAVE ON 9/11 OF THIS YEAR IN HONOR OF THE CREW AND THE PASSENGERS THAT TOOK FLIGHT 93 DOWN BEFORE IT WENT INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

HE GAVE PART OF THE SPEECH IS THAT THERE IS LITTLE CULTURAL OVERLAP BETWEEN VIOLENT EXTREMISTS ABROAD AND VIOLENT EXTREMIST AT HOME BUT THEIR DISDAIN FOR PLURRISM, DISREGARD FOR HUMAN LIFE AND TO DEFILE NATIONAL SYMBOLS, THEY ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE SAME FOUL SPIRIT THAT WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO FIGHT AGAINST.

>> AS YOU KNOW, I PUT THAT ON THE LIST OF THINGS FOR US TO THINK ABOUT, SO I JUST WONDER YOUR THOUGHTS, IS THERE ANY OVERLAP BETWEEN THE INTERNATIONAL DOMESTIC TERRORISTS IN YOUR VIEW AND THE FOLKS WHO ARE GOING TO SHOW UP AND HAVE SHOWN UP IN D.C.?

I KNOW THERE IS THE WHOLE FOUL SPIRIT THING HE MENTIONED BUT I'M REALLY INTERESTED TO KNOW, ARE THEY VERY DIFFERENT FROM ONE ANOTHER?

>> THE SPIRIT IS THE SAME.

THE IDEOLOGY, THE INABILITY TO GO ABOUT IT AND ACTUALLY APPROACH IT FROM THE DEMOCRACY APPROACH THAT WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD, WHICH, AGAIN, THE ELECTIONS ARE COMING UP.

PUT YOUR EFFORTS THERE, NOT IN VIOLENCE THAT ARE GOING TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM YOUR PARTY'S POINT OF VIEW.

>> YEAH, AND ALSO FURTHER DIVIDE THE COUNTRY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> WHICH IS TERRIBLE.

WE COULD EASILY KEEP GOING • BUT THAT'S ALL WE HAVE TIME FOR TONIGHT.

WE'RE GLAD YOU JOINED US AND WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THESE TOPICS.

WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT IVORY TOWER, GOOD NIGHT.