ACCOUNTABILITY IN GOVERNMENT.

SHOULD SOMEONE BE FIRED AFTER THE SIGNAL CHAT SCREWUP?

GOVERNOR HOCHUL WANTS MORE CHANGES TO THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS-ARE DEFENDANTS BEING RELEASED BECAUSE OF TECHNICALITIES?

AND UNIVERSITIES UNDER PRESSURE, AS TRUMP TAKES ON HIGHER ED.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK BY SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, MICHAEL TILLOTSON FROM SUNY CORTLAND, AND TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE DEFENSE SECRETARY PETE HEGSETH IS A MAN USED TO THE SPOTLIGHT, BUT THIS WEEK THE MEDIA ATTENTION WAS HOTTER THAN USUAL.

HEGSETH PUT OPERATIONAL DETAILS ABOUT RECENT AIR ATTACKS ON THE COMMERCIAL CHAT APP SIGNAL.

WE ONLY KNOW THIS BECAUSE A REPORTER WAS MISTAKENLY INVITED INTO THE CHAT BY THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, MICHAEL WALTZ.

HEGSETH SAID THE INFORMATION WAS NOT CLASSIFIED.

IN HEARINGS IN CONGRESS THIS WEEK, IT SEEMED LIKE OTHER CABINET OFFICIALS ON THE CHAT WERE DEFLECTING BLAME TO HEGSETH.

SHOULD HE RESIGN OR BE FIRED?

SHOULD THE DEFENSE SECRETARY RESIGN OR BE FIRED?

>> WELL, SOME OF YOU MAY RECALL THAT BACK IN MID FEBRUARY, SENATE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE CHAIRPERSON ROGER WHITKER A REPUBLICAN FROM MISSISSIPPI SAID PETE HEGSETH MADE A ROOKIE MISTAKE IN HIS COMMENTS ABOUT UKRAINE IN A SPEECH AT NATO HEADQUARTERS.

HERE WE ARE, A MONTH LATER, A MONTH AND A HALF LATER AND AGAIN HE MAKES ANOTHER ROOKIE MISTAKE.

BUT INSTEAD OF ACKNOWLEDGING HIS FAILINGS, HE TURNS TO THE OLD TIRED AND EXHAUSTED PLAYBOOK OF OF DEFLECTING, EQUIVOCATING AND BLAMING OTHERS FOR HIS SHORTCOMINGS.

IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME A HOW LONG A PERSON SO UNQUALIFIED SHOULD SERVE AS SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.

I DON'T EXPECT HE WILL RESIGN OR BE FIRED BUT IT APPEARS THAT NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR MIKE WALZ IN THE CROSS HAIRS AS FROM THE PRESIDENT AS THE FALL GUY.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS THERE.

THE LAST PLACE I WANT TO BE IN THE CROSS HAIRS OF THIS PRESIDENT?

>> HEG HEGSETH WHEN NOMINATED, ONE OF THE CRITICISMS WAS THAT HE WAS INEXPERIENCED.

HE REALLY HAS NOT SERVED IN A CAPACITY ANYWHERE APPROACHING RUNNING THE MOST, THE BIGGEST ORGANIZATION IN THE GOVERNMENT.

SARAH?

>> YEAH, I MEAN IT'S SO EYE IRONIC, TOO, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTACKS ON DEI AND SAYING PEOPLE AREN'T QUALIFIED, EVEN PEOPLE THAT WERE IN THE ADMINISTRATION THAT HE HAS SINCE LET GO AND HE PUTS IN ALL THESE UNQUALIFIED, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY WHITE MEN, RIGHT?

IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR UNQUALIFIED WHITE MEN AND BEER SEEING THE RESULTS OF THAT NOW WITH ALL THESE, LIKE YOU SAID, MICHAEL, ROOKIE MISTAKE.

BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT'S NOT JUST THAT THEY'RE BAFOONS.

THERE ARE SOME REALLY BAD ACTORS HERE AS WELL, RIGHT?

THERE IS SOME TALK ABOUT HOW THEY'RE DELIBERATELY USING THE SIGNAL APPS IN ORDER TO PREVENT HAVING OFFICIAL RECORDS AND GET AROUND THE LAWS ABOUT OFFICIAL RECORD KEEPING, WHICH MEANS THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO BE PRIVY TO ANY OF THESE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO BE DISAPPEARING AFTER, YOU KNOW, FOUR WEEKS, FOUR MONTHS.

>> THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE DONE THAT THOUGH, RIGHT?

WE HAVE SEEN THAT SORT OF ACTION BEFORE, TRYING TO GET AROUND GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS TO PRESERVE COMMUNICATION.

TARA, WHAT ABOUT THE RESPONSE OF THE ADMINISTRATION?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, IT'S AN EXPECTED RESPONSE.

THIS IS AN ADMINISTRATION WE SAW WITH THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THAT NEVER PUBLICLY RECOGNIZES THAT A MISTAKE HAS BEEN MADE WHETHER IT WAS PRESIDENT TRUMP SAYING HE HAD NO CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON, WHETHER IT WAS THE VARIOUS OTHER GOVERNMENTAL OFFICIALS, SOME OF WHOM WERE ON THE SIGNAL CHAT AS WELL, BASICALLY SAYING NO, THESE WERE NOT CLASSIFIED PIECES OF INFORMATION.

NO, THERE WAS NO OPERATIONAL INFORMATION IN THIS CHAT, ET CETERA.

THEY RARELY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY HAVE MADE A MISTAKE, WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BETTER THING TO HAVE SIMPLY SAID THIS WAS A MISTAKE.

IT WAS WRONG.

WE WILL MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

AND I DON'T EVEN THINK WE WOULD STILL BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

IT WOULDN'T BE GOOD BUT I DON'T THINK WE WOULD STILL BE TALKING ABOUT IT.

BUT INSTEAD THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON , YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE DEMOCRATS LOOKING FOR SOMETHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT.

THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON NO, THIS WAS NOT OPERATIONAL INFORMATION, WHICH CLEARLY IT WAS.

THEY HAVE DOUBLED DOWN ON NO, IT WASN'T CLASSIFIED AND THERE IS THAT WHOLE QUESTION OF WAS IT CLASSIFIED AT THE TIME VERSUS IT WAS CLASSIFIED LATER AND SADLY YOU HAVE ONLY HAD A FEW MEMBERS, REPUBLICAN MEMBERS OF CONGRESS BE WILLING TO SAY, YOU KNOW, YES, THIS NOT ONLY WAS A MISTAKE, YES THIS WAS INFORMATION THAT REALLY IS CLASSIFIED INFORMATION OR IT WAS OPERATIONAL INFORMATION.

OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE HAD DEMOCRATS MAKE IT VERY CLEAR THAT THEY SEE THIS AS PROBLEMATIC AND THEY ALSO SEE IT AS HYPOCRITICAL ON THE PART OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CONSIDERING SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE SAID, FOR EXAMPLE, ABOUT HILLARY CLINTON'S EMAILS.

>> THEY ALSO SEE IT AS A POLITICAL GIFT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> NOW WHAT ABOUT THE SEMANTICS, MICHAEL?

YOU REFERRED TO THAT TO SOME EXTENT AND THERE IS THE WHOLE THING OF WAR PLANS VERSUS ATTACK PLANS AND THEY'RE SEIZING ON THE DIFFERENCE AND IN THE SECOND ATLANTIC ARTICLE.

WE SHOULD SAY THE REPORTER WHO IS THE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, JEFFREY GOLDBERG, WHILE TRUMP HAS CERTAIN ISSUES WITH HIM IS A WELL KNOWN, WELL RESPECTED AND HIGHLY SOURCED NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER.

BUT HE, IN THE FIRST ARTICLE, SAID WAR PLANS AND IN THE SECOND , WHEN HE, OKAY HERE IS WHAT IS ACTUALLY IS IN THE CHAT, SAID ATTACK PLANS AND THEY'RE MAKING A BIG DEAL ABOUT THAT.

>> I THINK IT'S FASCINATING HOW THEY TRIED TO IMPLICATE GOAL BERG AS IF HE ASKED TO BE IN THIS DEBACLE.

HE WASN'T ASKED TO BE IN IT.

HE WAS PLACED IN IT BY THEM.

I FIND THAT FASCINATING.

BUT WORDSMITHING THEY ARE EXPERT AT IS LOSING ITS CACHE.

THE WAY THEY MANIPULATE REALITY AND CHANGE THE NARRATIVE, IN SOME QUARTERS IT MAY BE LOSING ITS POWER BECAUSE IT'S STARTING TO BE OVERDONE AND EXPECTED.

I THINK WHAT THEY DO IS A LOT MORE TRANSPARENT TO REGULAR FOLK THAN IT USED TO BE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE VICE PRESIDENT 'S ROLE IN ALL OF THIS, J.D.

VANCE?

HE WAS ON THAT CHAT AND PARTICIPATED AS WELL.

>> WELL, I WAS REALLY STRUCK BY HIS REMARKS ABOUT EUROPE AND JUST HIS DISDAIN FOR OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES.

AND ALSO FOR THIS SORT OF TRANSACTIONAL IDEA OF LIKE IF WE DO THIS FOR EUROPE, WE PRESERVE THE SHIPPING CHANNELS.

WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO GIVE US IN RETURN.

IT JUST REALLY SPEAKS TO KIND OF THEIR WHOLE VIEW OF WHAT IS IN AMERICA'S INTEREST AND NATIONAL SECURITY.

AND SO I THINK IF WE ZOOM OUT A LITTLE BIT FROM THIS ONE INCIDENT, WE CAN SAY THAT I THINK OVER THE TWO MONTHS' TIME, WE CAN SEE THAT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION DO NOT HAVE THE BEST INTERESTS OF AMERICA EITHER AT HOME OR ABROAD IN TERMS OF SECURITY.

I MEAN THEY JUST RECENTLY HAVE PUT A HOLD ON ATTEMPTS TO COUNTER RUSSIAN SABOTAGE AND CYBER ATTACKS.

THEY'RE UNDERMINING AND ALIENATING OUR ALLIES IN NATO.

HERE AT HOME THEY'RE USING RESOURCES TO GO AFTER GRADUATE STUDENTS WHO WRITE WHO-- FOREIGN GRADUATE STUDENTS WHO WRITE OP-ED OPPOSING ISRAEL'S POLICY.

FBI COUNTERTERRORISM IS GOING AFTER RANDOM INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE , YOU KNOW, BLOWING UP TESLAS.

IT'S A WASTE OF RESOURCES.

>> NOW, FOR THE THIRD TIME IN FOUR YEARS, GOVERNOR HOCHUL WANTS TO ROLL BACK PARTS OF THE 2019 CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORMS.

THIS TIME SHE WANTS TO AMEND THE DISCOVERY PROCESS THAT REQUIRES PROSECUTORS TO SHARE EVIDENCE WITH CRIMINAL DEFENDANTS IN A TIMELY FASHION.

BEFORE THE REFORMS, DEFENSE ATTORNEYS SOMETIMES DIDN'T SEE THE EVIDENCE AGAINST THEIR CLIENTS UNTIL THE LAST MINUTE.

SOMETIMES EVEN THE DAY OF THE TRIAL.

THE GOVERNOR SAYS THE CHANGES WENT TOO FAR BACK IN 2019 AND IT MADE IT EASIER TO DISMISS CASES AND ALLOW CRIMINALS BACK ON THE STREETS.

SO, SARAH, IS GOVERNOR HOCHUL RIGHT THAT THE DISCOVERY PROCESS SHOULD BE CHANGED AGAIN?

>> I HAVEN'T SEEN CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT THIS FIVE-YEAR-OLD POLICY WARRANTS ANY KIND OF ROLL BACK.

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT SHE IS BEING DRIVEN MORE BY POLITICAL CONCERNS THAN BY A CAREFUL ANALYSIS OF THE POLICY.

SO SHE SEES THE WINDS SHIFTING A BIT, SO THAT SHE IS AFRAID THAT SHE WILL BE TARGETED AS SOFT ON CRIME AND SO SHE IS TRYING TO UNDO SOME OF WHAT I THINK ARE VERY REASONABLE DRIM REFORMS.

IT SEEMS LIKE IN HERE-- CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM REFORMS.

IN THE LEAD-UP TO THIS SHE ONLY CONSULTED WITH PROSECUTORS AND NOT WITH DEFENSE ATTORNEYS AND WITH LAW PROFESSORS WHO ARE SUPPORTIVE OF THESE CHANGES.

SO I'M JUST NOT-- I DON'T THINK HER MOTIVES ARE VERY GOOD SO I DISTRUST HER AND THE CONCLUSIONS AS WELL.

I THINK THAT THESE ARE VERY REASONABLE RESPONSES AND, YOU KNOW, IN GENERAL, WHAT WE CAN SAY IS THAT PROSECUTORS TEND TO HAVE A LOT OF ADVANTAGES IN OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

THEY HAVE MORE RESOURCES, THEY HAVE TIES WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, THEY HAVE MORE INFORMATION TYPICALLY.

AND SO THEY'RE BETTER POSITIONED, RIGHT, AND WHAT THEY SEEM TO HAVE BEEN DOING IS OFTEN WAITING UNTIL THE VERY LAST MINUTE TO SHARE REALLY CRITICAL INFORMATION WITH THE DEFENSE TEAM, INFORMATION THAT WOULD HAVE ALLOWED DEFENDANTS TO PUT UP A BETTER CASE FOR THEMSELVES, MAYBE PLEA WITH FROM A POSITION OF MORE POWER.

>> MICHAEL?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO CONSIDER THE IDEA, TO SARAH'S POINT THAT THE GOVERNOR IS UP FOR REELECTION SOON.

I'M NOT SURE IF THIS IS A PLAY FOR THE CENTER OR A PLAY FOR THE SOFT RIGHT OR IF SHE THINKS HE IS PLAYING THREE DIMENSIONAL CHESS, I'M NOT SURE.

ANY TIME AN ACCUSED PERSON'S DEFENSE TEAM IS GRANTED MORE TIME WITH EVIDENCE, IN MY VIEW, IT ENHANCES THE IDEA OF DUE PROCESS.

LET ME REPEAT THAT.

ANY TIME A DEFENSE TEAM HAS MORE TIME WITH EVIDENCE, I THINK IT ENHANCES THE DUE PROCESS AND 14th AMENDMENT WHICH I THINK IS A GOOD THING AND I THINK THE NAACP LEGAL DEFENSE FUND AND PROJECT INNOCENCE WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.

I HOPE THE GOVERNOR RETHINKS THIS ACTIVITY ON THE DISCOVERY PROCESS VERY SOON.

>> OKAY, AND IS THERE-- IF THE DEFENSE LAWYERS ARE GETTING THIS INFORMATION, THE EVIDENCE WELL IN ADVANCE, I WONDER IS THERE ANY DANGER, YOU KNOW, INHERENT DANGER THEN TO WITNESSES WHO MAY BE CALLED ON IN A TRIAL?

I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL REASONS FOR HAVING THE SYSTEM SET UP THE WAY IT WAS INITIALLY.

TARA?

>> I THINK WE NEED TO BE HONEST AND SAY THERE CAN BE.

BUT FROM WHAT I'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIND, THAT THE PROBLEM FOR WITNESSES IS MOST COMMON IN, FOR EXAMPLE, DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CASES, FOR EXAMPLE, THAT'S A PLACE WHERE THERE HAVE BEEN SOME PROBLEMS.

AND SO PART OF THE ISSUE-- AND SARAH ALLUDED TO THIS-- IS THE FACT THAT SINCE THE GOVERNOR SEEMS TO HAVE ONLY WORKED WITH PROSECUTORS NOT WITH DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, YOU KNOW, THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN A CASE WHERE MAYBE THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A TWEAK THAT WOULD HAVE ADDRESSED THAT ISSUE, ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WITHOUT GOING TO THE EXTREME THAT THE GOVERNOR HAS GONE TO, WHERE SHE REAL ESTATE, IN A SENSE, IS TRYING TO ROLL BACK SOME OF THE REFORMS THAT OCCURRED FIVE YEARS AGO I. I THINK THERE IS ALWAYS A DANGER, SADLY FOR WITNESSES IN, YOU KNOW, IN CASES.

AND THAT'S JUST UNFORTUNATELY THE REALITY OF OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SO I DON'T THINK THERE HAS BEEN ENOUGH EVIDENCE THAT WITNESSES ARE IN DANGER TO HAVE GONE TO THE EXTREME THAT THE GOVERNOR DOES IN HER PROPOSAL.

>> PROSECUTORS SAY THAT-- YOU JUST REFERRED TO THEM AS EXTREME-- HOCHUL GOING TO THE EXTREME BUT PROSECUTORS SAY THESE ARE MINOR CHANGES.

>> MINOR CHANGES FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE.

IF I WERE A PROSECUTOR, I WOULDN'T WANT THE OTHER SIDE TO HAVE ANY SORT OF EQUITABLE EGALITARIAN TIME EITHER IF I WERE A PROSECUTOR.

SO I THINK THAT'S AN EXPECTED RESPONSE FROM ANY PROSECUTOR BECAUSE IT'S TO THEIR ADVANTAGE.

>> THE IDEA, SARAH THAT PROSECUTORS OFTEN WOULD NOT TURN OVER-- AND THEY HAD THE LEGAL RIGHT PRIOR TO 2019-- TURN OVER EVIDENCE UNTIL VERY LATE IN THE GAME.

SO WHAT IS THE IMPACT OF THAT?

>> WELL, IT MEANS THAT PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE INNOCENT OF CHARGES OR, YOU KNOW, WE MIGHT SEE THEM AS LESS GUILTY, RIGHT, DO NOT HAVE THE INFORMATION NEEDED TO PLEA OUT ON BETTER TERMS, RIGHT?

SO THIS SPEAKS TO A KIND OF-- NOT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE IN JAIL OR ACCUSED OF FELONIES.

OUR SYSTEM TAKES IN A LOT OF PEOPLE THROUGH OUR MISDEMEANOR SYSTEM.

AND MISDEMEANORS VARY BUT SOME OF THEM ARE REALLY PETTY THINGS LIKE SHOPLIFTING OR WRITING A BAD CHECK.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY GET SCOOPED UP INTO OUR CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, OFTEN THROWN IN JAIL IF THEY CAN'T PAY THE BAIL AND THE FINES AND FEES THAT ARE GOING UP ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.

THEY HAVE TO SPEND THEIR TIME IN JAIL UP TO THEIR TRIAL DATE.

AND SO THIS NEED FOR SPEEDY TRIALS IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THESE PEOPLE.

AND AGAIN, SOMETIMES THEY'RE INNOCENT OR ACCUSED OF VERY MINOR THINGS.

I MEAN 24 WHOLE LAW WAS-- THIS WHOLE LAW WAS WRITTEN PARTLY AS A RESPONSE TO KAY LIVE BROWDER FOUND GUILTY OF STEELING I BACKPACK AND SPENT THREE YEARS IN PRISON.

HE LATER UNFORTUNATELY TOOK HIS LIFE BECAUSE OF THAT EXPERIENCE.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP IS PUSHING HARD AGAINST UNIVERSITIES USING THE LEVERAGE OF FEDERAL FUNDING TO FOR CHANGESES HE ACCUSED COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY OF ANTI-SEMITISM AND SAID HE WAS GOING TO CANCEL 400 MILLION DOLLARS IN GRANTS.

SIXTY OTHER SCHOOLS ARE ALSO BEING INVESTIGATED FOR ANTI-SEMITISM IN THE WAKE OF LAST YEAR'S GAZA PROTESTS.

IN ADDITION, THE ADMINISTRATION SUSPENDED 175 MILLION IN GRANTS TO THE UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA BECAUSE THREE YEARS AGO THE SCHOOL ALLOWED A TRANSGENDER SWIMMER TO COMPETE IN WOMEN'S SWIM MEETS.

THE GOVERNMENT HAS "CARDS TO PLAY" BECAUSE SCHOOLS ARE SO DEPENDENT ON FEDERAL MONEY.

IS THE ADMINISTRATION JUSTIFIED IN USING THIS LEVERAGE?

TO GET THE CHANGES THAT IT SEEKS?

>> ABSOLUTELY NOT.

FIRST OF ALL, AND WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THIS SHOW BEFORE, LET'S JUST DEAL WITH THE ANTI-SEMITISM.

PART OF THE PROBLEM WITH ANTI-SEMITISM AND THIS TACK ON STUDENTS WHO ARE PROTESTING WHAT IS GOING ON IN GAZA, ET CETERA, IS NO ONE HAS REALLY DEFINED WHAT IS ANTI-SEMITISM AND INCREASINGLY IT SEEMS TO BE THAT ANTI-SEMITISM IS DEFINED AS ANY OPPOSITION TO ISRAELI POLICY IF IN GEADZ OR TO THE UNITED STATES SUPPORT OF THE ISRAELI POLICY.

THAT'S VERY BROAD AND FLIES IN THE FACE OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH.

SO THAT'S ONE ISSUE.

THEN THERE IS THE WHOLE FACT THAT YOU ARE ALSO TAKING IN STUDENTS, IN SOME CASES, ARRESTING STUDENTS WHO ARE PROTESTING WITHOUT ANY PROOF THAT THEY ARE VIOLENT IN ANY WAY.

THAT GOES TO FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY.

SO THE PRESIDENT IS USING BASICALLY WHAT IS THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION'S INTERESTS AND USING THAT TO GO AFTER SCHOOLS FOR ANY SORT OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH, ANY FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY, IN SOME CASES FREEDOM OF THE PRESS IF STUDENTS HAVE WRITTEN AN OP-ED SOMEWHERE.

AND THAT'S NOTES-- THAT'S NOT WHAT OUR DEMOCRACY IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT.

WHEN YOU TAKE THE CASE OF THE TRANSGENDER STUDENT UNTIL THAT IS COMPLETELY DECIDED BY THE COURTS AND THAT IS WHAT OUR COURT SYSTEM IS FOR, WHY IS THIS ADMINISTRATION SO FOCUSED ON SOMETHING THAT AGAIN SEEMS TO BE A VERY PERSONAL INTEREST FOR THE MEMBERS OF THIS ADMINISTRATION?

>> I THINK WHAT YOU ARE SUGGESTING IS THAT MAYBE THE INTEREST OF THE-- USING ANTI-SEMITISM AS THE REASON, BUT PERHAPS THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT IT IS ABOUT.

MICHAEL?

>> I REMEMBER IN A SPEECH IN SEPTEMBER WHEN THE PRESIDENT WAS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

THE PRESIDENT PROMISED SPECIFICALLY EXACTLY THAT HE WOULD DO THESE EXACT THINGS IF ELECTED AND HERE WE ARE.

>> THAT'S WHY A LOT OF PEOPLE LIKE HIM.

HE DOES WHAT HE SAYS.

>> PUNISHING UNIVERSITIES, STUDENT DEPORTATIONS, THE REVOKING OF VISAS.

IT IS ONLY SHOCKING FOR SOME BECAUSE THE RHETORIC IS MATCHING THE REALITY AND I THINK THAT IS SHOCKING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT THE RHETORIC IS MATCHING THE REALITY.

AND IT IS SHOCKING BUT NOT TOTALLY SURPRISING.

PERHAPS THERE NEEDS TO BE A NEW FUNDING MODEL FOR HOW UNIVERSITIES GET MONEY.

I'M NOT SURE.

BUT I DO KNOW WHEN I WOULD GO THROUGH THE MIDWEST, I WOULD SEE BUMPER STICKERS THAT SAID AMERICA LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT AND I THINK THAT TO SEE THE GOVERNMENT PUTTING THAT INTO ACTION IS EXTREMELY CONCERNING FOR ME, THIS NEW NOTION ABOUT AMERICA, LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT AND THE IDEA THAT ALL FORMS OF DISSENT ARE BAD.

THAT'S TROUBLING FOR ANY DEMOCRACY.

PARTICULARLY A PLACE THAT HAS, FOR A LONG TIME, EXPORTED THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY.

SO THE QUESTION NOW BECOMES DO THE PEOPLE IN WESTERN EUROPE, IS AMERICA, YOU KNOW, A DEMOCRACY OR IS IT HYPOCRISY.

IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME ANYMORE.

>> I WONDER, SARAH IF THIS IDEA, IF THIS IS REALLY DID DISSENT OR WHETHER THERE IS A BIGGER ISSUE ABOUT CONTROL.

>> I THINK ABSOLUTELY.

THIS IS PART CONCERNING.

I MEAN IT IS AN INCREDIBLE ACT OF SELF SABOTAGE ON THE PART OF THIS COUNTRY.

HIGHER EDUCATION IS JUST THIS HUGE ENGINE OF INNOVATION THAT IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD.

OUR HIGHER EDUCATION IS THE ENVY OF THE WORLD BUT WE ARE DISTRUSTED AT HOME.

AND I THINK THAT DISTRUST IS LARGELY THE RESULT OF THIS CAMPAIGN ON THE RIGHT TO CREATE UNIVERSITIES AND, YOU KNOW, AS AN ENEMY.

AND WE SEE IT IN PUBLIC OPINION POLLS IN THE LAST 10 YEARS, THE PUBLIC IMPRESSION OF HIGHER EDUCATION HAS GONE DOWN PRECIPITOUSLY.

AND I THINK HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS HAVE TO BAN TOGETHER AND CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AND MAKE THE CASE FOR WHY THEY'RE SO IMPORTANT.

>> NOW, THE GAZA PROTESTS AND ANTI-SEMITISM ARE BEING USED FOR-- AND THERE CLEARLY WERE-- THERE WAS AN ANTI-SEMITIC ASPECT TO SOME OF THE PROTESTS AND SO WHY SHOULDN'T THE GOVERNMENT TAKE ACTION TO STAMP THAT OUT?

>> I THINK HAVE YOU TO KEEP IT IN PROPER CONTEXT.

BUT I WANT TO GO BACK TO SARAH'S POINT.

THE UNIVERSITY IS ONE OF THE VEHICLES THAT CAN HELP A PERSON CHANGE THEIR SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC STATUS IN AMERICA.

THAT'S BEEN THE DRIVING FORCE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF UNIVERSITY SYSTEM.

THE IDEA OF BEING IN THE LIFE OF THE LINE, TRADING IN THE MARKETPLACE OF IDEAS, QUESTION THE LARGER IDEAS OF THE HUMAN STORY SHOULD ALWAYS BE EMPHASIZED.

NO MATTER WHAT YOUR JOB IS IN THE WORLD, HAVE YOU TO WALK IN THE WORLD NO MATTER YOUR VOCATION OR WHAT YOUR JOB MAY BE.

HAVE YOU TO WALK IN THE WORLD AND TO TAMP DOWN THE IDEA THAT THE LIFE OF THE MIND IS IMPORTANT IS ANTI-DEMOCRATIC ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT.

>> SO THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I KNOW WE ALL TRY TO DO IN THE CLASSROOM, RIGHT, IS TO EXPOSE PEOPLE TO NEW IDEAS AND INFORMATION.

AND THERE IS VALUE IN THAT.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> NOW WE NEED TO GO TO As AND FS.

SARAH YOUR F. >> MY PARENTS DID NOT ALLOW ME AND MY SISTER TO WATCH A LOT OF TELEVISION AS KIDS BUT THE SHOWS ON PBS WERE AN EXCEPTION.

LIKE MANY OTHERS, I GREW UP WATCHING Mr. ROGERS NEIGHBORHOOD, SESAME STREET AND THE ELECTRIC COMPANY.

AS WE GOT OLDER, SUNDAY NIGHTS WERE RESERVED FOR WATCHING THE LATEST SERIES ON MASTERPIECE THEATER.

TODAY I'M STILL A HUGE FAN OF PBS PROGRAMMING.

SO I WAS DISHEARTENED TO HEAR THIS WEEK THAT PBS AND NPR ARE THE NEXT TARGETS FOR FEDERAL BUDGET CUTS.

IT'S SAD BUT NOT SURPRISING THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THESE INSTITUTIONS FOR THE TREASURES THAT THEY ARE.

>> MICHAEL.

>> MY F GOES TO THE BACK LACK OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY FROM THE WHITE HOUSE ON THE SIGNAL CHAT DEBACLE.

>> AND TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO THE CURRENT USDA FOR HALTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OF DELIVERIES TO FOOD BANKS WITHOUT ANY EXPLANATION.

ORIGINALLY USDA HAD ALLOCATED $500 MILLION FOR DELIVERIES FOR FOOD BANKS FOR 2025 THROUGH THE EMERGENCY ASSISTANCE PROGRAM.

SUDDENLY IN MARCH THOSE ORDERS WERE IT CANCEL AND THOSE PROGRAMS HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN ANY IDEA WHETHER THIS IS A PERFORM NENT CANCELLATION OR A TEMPORARY AND OF COURSE THEY'RE SCRAMBLING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GET MONEY TO PROVIDE THE FOOD SOURCES.

>> AND THE As.

>> IN THE FIGHT AGAINST DEMOCRATIC BACKSLIDING IN AMERICA, DEMOCRATIC STATE ATTORNEYS GENERALS HAVE BEEN ON THE FRONT LINES WORKING OVERTIME TO FILE MULTISTATE LAWSUITS AGAINST THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

UNLIKE THE DEMOCRATS IN CONGRESS, THE STATE ATTORNEYS GENERALS WERE READY FOR TRUMP'S RETURN TO THE WHITE HOUSE AND HAD A PLAN FOR HOW TO FIGHT HIS UNCONSTITUTIONAL POWER GRABS.

THEY FILED THEIR FIRST LAWSUIT ALMOST IMMEDIATELY AFTER HE TOOK OFFICE AND THEY HAVEN'T LET UP SINCE.

I'M ESPECIALLY GRATEFUL FOR THEIR FORESIGHT AND RESOLVE AS WE WITNESS MORE INDIVIDUALS AND INSTITUTIONS SURRENDER TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S THREATS AND INTIMIDATION.

>> MICHAEL, YOUR A.

>> MY A PLUS GOES TO THE THIRD GRADERS FROM THE Dr. KING SCHOOL HERE IN SYRACUSE WHO ON MONDAY MARCHED TO CITY HALL TO DEMAND MORE ACCESS TO FRESH PRODUCE AND MORE FRESH PRODUCE IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.

WAY TO GO KIDS WELL DONE.

>> THAT TIES TO YOUR F, DOESN'T IT TARA.

AND THEN YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY FOR ANNOUNCING IT WILL OFFER FREE TUITION TO STUDENTS WHOSE FAMILIES EARN LESS THAN $200,000.

AS ANY PROGRAM RECOGNIZING DIVERSITY IS NOW BEING SCRUTINIZED, AND COLLEGE COSTS CONTINUE TO RISE, THIS IS ONE WAY TO ALLOW ACCESS TO MIDDLE AND LOWER INCOME STUDENTS.

>> THEY CAN DO THAT BECAUSE THEY HAVE AN ENDOWMENT OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND A NUMBER OF INSTITUTIONS DO.

BUT MORE DON'T.

MANY MORE DON'T.

NOW, ONE FINAL NOTE ON SOMETHING THAT AFFECTS US ALL.

RIGHT NOW, FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PUBLIC MEDIA FACES SIGNIFICANT CUTS, PUTTING TRUSTED, IN-DEPTH PROGRAMS LIKE IVORY TOWER AT RISK.

WE ARE ASKING FOR YOUR HELP TODAY TO PROTECT THESE ESSENTIAL SERVICES.

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THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

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I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.