TO INDICT OR NOT, THAT'S THE QUESTION THAT'S TRANSFIXED THE COUNTRY.

DOES MERIT MATTER, IN A D.E.I WORLD.

AND WHY ISN'T SYRACUSE RELEASING RECORDS OF POLICE MISCONDUCT.

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, SARAH PRALLE FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

THE STORY THAT SUCKED UP A LOT OF OXYGEN THIS WEEK EVEN AS NOTHING MUCH HAPPENED, WAS THE POSSIBILITY OF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP BEING INDICTED IN NEW YORK.

THE CRIME-FALSIFYING BUSINESS RECORDS TO COVER UP HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS TO A PORN STAR.

IF THERE'S AN INDICTMENT, IT WOULD BE THE FIRST TIME A FORMER PRESIDENT HAS BEEN CHARGED IN A CRIMINAL MANNER.

NO ONE SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW, NOR SHOULD ANYONE BE TREATED WORSE BECAUSE OF WHO THEY ARE.

SHOULD MANHATTAN D.A.

ALVIN BRAGG TAKE THIS STEP, EVEN IF THE EVIDENCE IS STRONG?

WOULD CHARGES IN THIS CASE UNDERMINE ALL THE OTHER, SEEMINGLY MORE SIGNIFICANT CASES AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT?

>> WHEN I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE ISSUE, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE LEGAL ARGUMENTS AGAINST TRUMP IN THIS CASE.

SOME WOULD ARGUE IT'S A MINOR INFRACTION ESPECIALLY COMPARED TO THE OTHER FACES HE IS-- THE CHARGES HE IS FACING.

MICHAEL COHEN SERVING THREE YEARS IN FEDERAL PRISON FOR THE SAME THING AND HE WAS NOT THE MAIN PLAYER HERE.

DONALD TRUMP WAS AND IT BENEFITED DONALD TRUMP.

SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE ARGUMENT IS FOR, YOU KNOW, PROSECUTING COHEN BUT NOT TRUMP.

OTHERS HAVE SAID, WELL, IT'S REALLY UNPRECEDENTED TO PROSECUTE A FORMER PRESIDENT AND THAT'S TRUE, BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD A PRESIDENT WHO HAS BEEN SO UNLAWFUL AND SO FLAGRANTLY UNLAWFUL.

AND IT IS CERTAINLY NOT REMINISCENT OF SO CALLED THIRD WORLD AUTHORITARIAN COUNTRIES, WHICH IS WHAT SOME OF HIS SUPPORTERS ARE SAYING.

AND IN FACT, I THINK IT'S REALLY A SIGN OF A HEALTHY DEMOCRACY WHEN YOU CAN MAKE SURE THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

PHILLIP BUMP, A JOURNALIST FOR WASHINGTON POST HAD A HELPFUL ARTICLE THIS WEEK ABOUT VARIOUS WESTERN DEMOCRACIES WHO HAVE PROSECUTED THEIR LEADERS, INCLUDING ISRAEL, FRANCE, ITALY, YOU KNOW, THE LIST GOES ON.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT MESSAGE TO SEND TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT STRONG TRUMP FANS, THAT, YOU KNOW, WEALTHY WHITE POWERFUL PEOPLE WILL BE PROSECUTED.

AND I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT MESSAGE ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW AND CREATES MORE TRUST AND LESS CYNICISM.

>> I COULDN'T AGREE MORE THAT NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW AND THAT IF TRUMP HAS, INDEED, BROKEN THE LAW, THEN HE SHOULD HAVE TO ANSWER FOR THAT IN COURT WHETHER IT'S A CIVIL COURT OR A CRIMINAL COURT.

I'LL LEAF THAT TO LEGAL EXPERTS.

THE PROBLEM I HAVE HERE HAS TO DO WITH THE BROADER RAMIFICATIONS, SARAH.

SO IF, AS A POLITICAL MATTER, WE SET THE PRECEDENT OF A NEW YORK STATE PROSECUTOR PROSECUTING A PRESIDENT, I WORRY THAT WHEN BIDEN IS OUT OF OFFICE, ESPECIALLY WITH ALL OF THE TALK OF HIS MALFEASANCE ON THE PART OF REPUBLICANS, THAT YOU CAN GET, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE WHO IS IN A RED STATE WHO HAS GOT AN AXE TO GRIND DOING THE SAME THING.

THE OTHER THING IS, I QUESTION WHY NOW.

BEGUN AGAIN, I'M NOT A LEGAL ANALYST.

WHY NOW?

THIS HUSH MONEY PAYMENT WAS MADE IN 2018, RIGHT?

ALSO WHY NEARKT?

THE-- WHY NEW YORK STATE.

THE FEDERAL PROSECUTORS LOOKED AT THIS WHEN THEY PROSECUTED MICHAEL COHEN AND THEY DID SAY SOMETHING LIKE WE BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS COORDINATION WITH TRUMP.

BUT FEDERAL PROSECUTORS DECLINED TO PROSECUTE A CASE THAT HAS TO DO WITH FEDERAL ELECTIONS.

AND THE LAST THING I WOULD SAY IS THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO GO AFTER TRUMP, THIS AIN'T IT.

THIS AIN'T THE CASE TO DO IT WITH BECAUSE THERE ARE MUCH MORE SERIOUS ALLEGATIONS: THE TURNING OVER THE 2020 ELECTION OR TRYING TO.

THE TAX EVASION AND THE SEXUAL ASSAULT CLAIMS.

SO I THINK IN THIS CASE, THE PROSECUTOR BROUGHT A KNIFE TO A GUN FIGHT.

>> YOU SAID, NINA, THAT BECAUSE IT'S A NEW YORK PROSECUTOR YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

BUT WHAT ABOUT FANNY LEWIS, THE GEORGIA PROSECUTOR WHO IS ALSO BRINGING-- INVESTIGATING AND IT SEEMS THERE COULD BE CHARGES COMING.

WHY IS THAT DIFFERENT?

>> IT'S DIFFERENT BECAUSE IT HAS TO DO WITH GEORGIA ELECTIONS AND ACTIONS THAT TOOK PLACE SPECIFICALLY IN GEORGIA INVOLVING GEORGIA OFFICIALS AND GEORGIA PROCESSES.

HERE THIS IS MUCH BIGGER THAN THAT.

AND AGAIN, YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE FEDERAL PROSECUTORS INVOLVED THERE.

YOU DID HAVE THEM INVOLVED HERE.

AND I'M MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE PROCEEDING IN A CASE LIKE THIS THAT IS STALE AND THAT HAS TO DO WITH A FEDERAL ELECTION CAMPAIGN VIOLATION.

>> I THINK THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE WANTS TO STAY AS FAR AWAY FROM THIS AS POSSIBLE.

TRYING TO PUT TOGETHER PARTS OF WHAT YOU BOTH SAID, I THINK FOR THE GOOD OF OUR COUNTRY AND THE GOOD OF OUR GOVERNMENT, IF SOMEBODY VIOLATES THE LAW AND THERE IS COMPELLING EVIDENCE, THEY SHOULD BE PROSECUTED, TO SARAH'S POINT.

TO YOUR POINT, NINA, I THINK IT SHOULD BE DONE VERY CAREFULLY.

THE THING THAT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THIS IS TRYING TO FUSE THE FALSIFYING OF BUSINESS RECORDS WITH CAMPAIGN ELECTION LAW.

I THINK THERE IS A PRETTY CLEAR CASE THAT BUSINESS RECORDS WERE FALSIFIED.

IF THAT'S THE ONLY CHARGE COMING OUT OF MANHATTAN, THAT'S A MISDEMEANOR, RIGHT?

IF IT'S CONNECTED WITH CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW, THEN IT CAN BE A FELONY.

BUT AS YOU RIGHTLY POINTED OUT, THAT CAMPAIGN FINANCE LAW PART, THERE IS NO PRECEDENT OF NEW YORK PROSECUTING SOMEBODY FOR THAT LAW AS IT PERTAINS TO A FEDERAL ELECTION.

SO THAT'S WHAT GIVES ME PAUSE.

IF I'M THE PROSECUTOR, AND I THINK CRIMES EXISTED, I'M JUST GOING TO LOOK AT IT AS A MATTER OF LAW WHAT I CAN PROVE AND I THINK THE BUSINESS RECORDS, EVEN IF IT'S A MISDEMEANOR IS PROBABLY THE SAFEST, SMARTEST WAY TO GO IF THE EVIDENCE IS THERE.

>> I THINK BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU JUST POINTED OUT, THEY'VE SET TRUMP UP FOR BEING ABLE TO MAKE A CLAIM OF SPECIAL PROSECUTION BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT, WHICH I THINK HE WILL WIN.

AND IF THAT HAPPENS, YOU HAVE HELPED HIM INSTEAD OF HURTING HIM.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> A STORMY WEEK OF DENIAL BY TRUMP IF YOU WANT TO PUT IT THAT WAY.

THE STORM HAD BEEN GATHERING.

I WAS JUST LOOKING, THERE WAS A REPORT, HE HAS 19 LEGAL ACTIONS AGAINST HIM, HALF OF THEM WHEN HE WAS A PRESIDENT.

AND THREE OF THEM ARE CRIMINAL, RIGHT?

AND JUST THIS IS NOT THE ONLY ONE.

BUT I WAS READING-- I THINK IT'S A NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE AND I THOUGHT ABOUT IT.

THERE IS AN INTERESTING ANGLE TO THIS.

IT'S THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAD AN INTERESTING STRATEGY DURING THE MID TERMS, WHERE THEY PROPPED UP REALLY FAR RIGHT CANDIDATES IN ORDER TO GET THEIR DEMOCRATS ELECTED.

NEW HAMPSHIRE IS A CASE IN POINT.

IT MIGHT PLAY OUT NICELY IN THE WAY THAT WITH THIS ALL KIND OF PERSON WALK AND ALL THAT STUFF, TRUMP MIGHT HAVE A VERY STRONG BASE THAT GETS THEM FIRED UP AND GET TRUMP ELECTED IN THE PRIMARY SUCH THAT BIDEN CAN DEFEAT HIM AGAIN FOR THE FOURTH TIME.

>> THAT'S GETTING PRETTY... >> THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN SPELLED OUT BY JOURNALISTS, RIGHT AS ONE OF THE STRATEGIES THAT DEMOCRATS MIGHT HAVE AND HAVE DONE IT BEFORE.

I MEAN THE IMRD IS THAT BIDEN MIGHT NOT WIN.

AGAIN, A MORE MAINSTREAM CANDIDATE, WHATEVER THAT MEANS IN THIS DAY AND AGE... >> BUT THE POLLS SHOW HE IS WAY UP IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARY ANY.

>> OVER 50%.

>> THIS WOULD BE A HECK OF A WAY TO TRY TO DIMINISH HIM OR TO ENCOURAGE HIM AND THEN DIMINISH HIM.

>> THAT'S JUST AN ANGLE AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A STRATEGY OR NOT.

DONALD TRUMP WENT AFTER A LOT OF PEOPLE IN HIS LIFE.

IF THERE IS KARMA, YOU KNOW... >> YOU CAN AT IT LIKE DONALD TRUMP IS PURPOSELY GENERATING ATTENTION.

HE MADE IT SEEM LIKE THERE IS GOING TO BE AN INDICTMENT.

A TON OF NATIONAL MEDIA COVERAGE, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.

HE IS RAISING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS OFF THIS.

THIS IS MORE STRATEGIC ON HIS PART.

WHETHER OR NOT HE GETS INDICTED AND HE IS FOCUSING ON PROBABLY THE WEAKEST CHARGE OF THE MANY AGAINST HIM SO IF IT DOESN'T COME TO PASS, HE LOOKS EVEN BETTER.

>> HE DEFINITELY IS, AND AGAIN, THIS IS NEW YORK, ONE OF THE COASTAL LEGISLATURES FAMOUS FOR BEING VERY BLUE, VERY PROGRESSIVE AND VERY ANTI-TRUMP.

AND I THINK THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCE HERE COULD BE, AS I SAID BEFORE, TO MAKE TRUMP LOOK LIKE A VICTIM.

AND THAT'S A HARD THING TO DO.

BUT I THINK THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING BECAUSE SOMETIMES WE TALK ABOUT THE SET OF INVESTIGATIONS AS THOUGH THERE IS A MASTER COORDINATOR WHO IS DECIDING WHICH CASES TO BRING AND WHEN TO BRING THEM AND THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

THESE ARE INDEPENDENT PROSECUTORS WHO ARE INDEPENDENTLY BRINGING IT IN CASES WHERE THEY THINK THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE AND THERE ARE GRAND JURIES WHO ARE DECIDING IF THERE IS ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO INDICT THEM.

THERE IS NOT A MASTER PLAN HERE.

>> NOW, ON OUR NEXT TOPIC, IT TOUCHES ON THE E IN D.E.I., DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION.

LATE LAST YEAR SEVERAL HIGH SCHOOLS IN VIRGINIA DELAYED NOTIFIYING MORE THAN 200 STUDENTS THEY HAD WON NATIONAL MERIT COMMENDATIONS.

IN SOME CASES, STUDENTS DID NOT LEARN OF THEIR AWARDS UNTIL AFTER THEY HAD APPLIED TO COLLEGE.

MOST OF THE STUDENTS WERE ASIAN -AMERICAN.

THE SCHOOLS REPORTEDLY HAD BEEN TRAINED IN EQUITY-CENTERED STRATEGIC PLAN.

DOES MERIT HAVE A PLACE IN OUR PURSUIT OF EQUITY WHAT DOES MERIT MEAN?

>> THESE ARE VERY DEEP QUESTIONS FOR A 26-MINUTE EPISODE BUT I'LL GIVE IT A TRY.

YOU KNOW, I HONESTLY FEEL IN A VASTLY UNEQUAL SOCIETY THAT IS OFTEN STRUCTURED BY, YOU KNOW, YEARS AND YEARS OF DE FACTO DISCRIMINATION AND SO WORTH, THE WORD MERIT RINGS HOLLOW IN MY EYES.

WHAT DOES IT HIDE REALLY?

HERE I'M REALLY FOLLOWING MICHAEL SANDLER, HE SAID IN THIS MAJOR COMPETITION, IT GIVES THE WINNERS KIND OF THIS ILLUSION THAT THEY HAVE KIND OF ACHIEVED IT ON THEIR OWN BUT THAT IS NO THE TRUE.

IT KIND OF HIDES THE UNDEBTEDNESS THEY HAVE TOWARDS MANY OTHER THINGS, COUNSELORS OF GIVES THAT THEY HAVE THAT THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE GIFT OR BEING IN A SOCIETY WHERE THEY CAN ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, ADVANCE IN A SAFE AND SECURE MANNER.

SO I THINK THIS KIND OF MERITOCRACY, IT IS RIGHTLY SHOULD BE CALLED CLASS-OCRA CY IN THE RIGHT MANNER.

AND LOOK, S.A.T.

SCORES TRACK PARENTS INCOMES VERY, VERY CLOSELY.

THEY HIRE ADMISSION COUNSELORS, THEY GIVE S.A.T.

TUTORING AND ALL THAT.

GIVEN ALL THAT, I DO FEEL THAT MERITOCRACY IS, AGAIN, A WORD THAT IS HOLLOW.

IT HIDES THE SOCIAL ASPECT OF SUCCEED.

NOW HAVING SAID THAT, DID THESE PEOPLE NEED TO BE GIVEN THE COMMENDATIONS, SURE BUT WOULD I ASK THE PARENTS TO EXERCISE A SENSE OF HUMILITY HERE.

YOUR KID DID GOOD BUT THAT'S A LOT TO DO WITH THE SOCIETY, THE SCHOOL THAT THEY WENT IN, THE SUPPORT THAT THEY GOT.

YOU KNOW, AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO BE A LITTLE HUMBLE ABOUT THIS.

>> NINA THE IDEA OF EQUITY HERE.

HOW DO WE DEFINE THAT?

>> HOW DO WE DEFINE EQUITY?

>> WELL, I MEAN THERE IS A VIBRANT DEBATE OVER WHETHER EQUITY IS ABOUT PROVIDING EQUAL ACCESS AND EQUAL OPPORTUNITY VERSUS EQUAL RESULTS.

I'LL LEAVE IT TO MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE DEBATING THAT TO DECIDE HOW WE COME DOWN ON IT.

I DO THINK THE LACK OF ACTUAL EQUAL RESULTS SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS EQUAL OPPORTUNITY AND EQUAL ACCESS.

OTHERWISE YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE IS SOMETHING INHERENTLY WRONG WITH FOLKS WHO DON'T ACHIEVE THE EQUAL RESULTS.

BUT I WANTED TO PIGGY BACK ON HALF OF ANIRBAN'S COMMENTS, ONLY HALF.

ABOUT THIS MYTH OF MERITOCRACY.

WE HAVE NEVER HAD A MERITOCRACY IN THE U.S. AND ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO COLLEGE ADMISSIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE BUILT IN BIASES IN THE TESTS AND THE GRADING AND THE SCHOOL FUNDING, THE WHOLE KIT NCABOODLE, EVEN BEING PRIVILEGED AS AN ALUMNI KID, HAVING A HUGE DONOR AND BEING A STUDENT FROM A SCHOOL WHERE YOU HAVE LOTS OF A.P.

CLASSES THAT INFLATE G.P.A.S.

HOWEVER, HAVING SAID ALL OF THAT, I HAVE SOME CONCERNS HERE WHICH TOUCHES ON WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT, DAVE, AND THAT IS THESE ADMINISTRATORS UNWITTINGLY PITTED EQUITY AGAINST MERIT.

AND I THINK THAT'S A HUGE MISTAKE.

I DON'T THINK THOSE TWO THINGS ARE MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE OF ONE ANOTHER, NOR FOR THAT MATTER INCOMPATIBLE.

I THINK IT HAD THE OPPOSITE EFFECT OF REINFORCING THE STEREOTYPE THAT RACIAL MINORITIES CAN'T CUT IT.

THAT THEY'RE UNABLE TO MEET THE STANDARDS BECAUSE WHAT THEY DID HERE WAS THROW OUT THE STANDARDS OF EXCELLENCE WHEN, INSTEAD, WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE WAS REMOVE BARRIERS TO BEING ABLE TO MEET THOSE STANDARDS SUCH AS MORE PREPARATION FOR THE P.S.A.D.

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT AND A LOT OF SCHOOLS AND SOME STATES, I WONDER HOW MUCH THE BARRIERS ARE BEING REMOVED.

>> I THINK THIS IS A COPOUT, I'M SORRY FOR THE PROGRESSIVES AT THE TABLE.

I KNOW WE HAVE A COUPLE.

BUT THIS IS TYPICAL OF PROGRESSIVES TO SKIM THE SURFACE AND BECAUSE IT LOOKS GOOD, IT'S VIRTUE SIGNALING INSTEAD OF GETTING TO THE ISSUES.

>> SARAH?

>> WHEN I FIRST HEARD THE STORY, I WAS WONDERING WHY IT MADE NATIONAL NEWS.

IT SEEMED LIKE AN ADMINISTRATIVE ISSUE THAT GOT WILDLY BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION AND THEN I DID SOME DIGGING AND I FOUND OUT SOME OF THE SAME PARENTS THAT WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS WERE ALSO INVOLVED IN A LAWSUIT AGAINST THE THOMAS JEFFERSON HIGH SCHOOL, WHICH IS CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BEST HIGH SCHOOLS IN AMERICA, ACTUALLY.

AND THEY'RE LITIGATING BECAUSE THE CHANGES IN THE PROCESS AND TO CREATE A MORE DIVERSE STUDENT BODY BECAUSE THE PERCENTAGE OF BLACK AND HISPANIC STUDENTS IS VERY LOW.

AND SO THEY GOT RID OF THE TEST AND THEY GOT RID OF THE $100 APPLICATION FEE IN ORDER TO CREATE A MORE DIVERSE STUDENT BODY THAT WAS EFFECTIVE AND NOW THE PARENTS ARE SUING AND THAT IS BEING-- THAT IS CAUGHT UP IN THE FEDERAL COURTS STILL.

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS PART OF A MUCH BIGGER PROJECT.

SO IT'S BEING FUNDED BY RIGHT WING AND CONSERVATIVE LEGAL FOUNDATIONS.

THIS IS PART OF A BIGGER RIGHT WING PROJECT AGAINST PUBLIC EDUCATION MORE GENERALLY.

AND FOR THOSE OF OUR VIEWERS WHO ARE INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE, THERE IS A GREAT BOOK CALLED "A WOLF AT THE VOLS HOUSE DOOR" BY JENNIFER BERKSHIRE AND HER CO-AUTHOR AND SHE IS JUST-- SHE WRITES A LOT IN THE POPULAR PRESS ABOUT THE CONSERVATIVE WAR ON PUBLIC EDUCATION.

>> WHAT MAKES ME UNCOMFORTABLE HERE IS WE ARE THINKING ABOUT MERIT IN REGARDS TO ACCESS TO PUBLIC EDUCATION.

SO I CAN UNDERSTAND MERIT BASED ADMISSIONS FOR COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY, BUT IF YOU HAVE AN EXCELLENT SCHOOL IN THIS COMMUNITY AND YOU HAVE A MERIT-BASED PROCESS THAT EXCLUDES PEOPLE FROM THESE PUBLIC RESOURCES, I THINK THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

PARTICULARLY WITH SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WERE MENTIONED.

SO I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF ADOPTING A LOTTERY SYSTEM, RIGHT?

GIVE EVERYBODY EQUAL OPPORTUNITY, EQUAL CHANCE TO EXPERIENCE THESE EXCELLENT RESOURCES THAT ARE DOING A GREAT JOB RATHER THAN TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOME CONVOLUTED SYSTEM THAT MIXES MERIT AND D.E.I.

WHICH CLEARLY HAS DRAWN THE IRE ON BOTH SIDES.

>> THIS IS AN ISSUE THAT I THINK WE CAN DEVOTE, AS ANIRBAN SAID, AN ENTIRE PROGRAM TO AND MAYBE WE WILL ONE OF THESE DAYS.

IT'S BEEN ALMOST THREE YEARS SINCE NEW YORK STATE REPEALED SECTION 50-A OF ITS CIVIL RIGHTS LAW.

THAT WAS THE PROVISION THAT KEPT MISCONDUCT RECORDS OF POLICE OFFICERS FROM BEING MADE PUBLIC.

WHEN IT WAS REPEALED, SYRACUSE MAYOR BEN WALSH PROMISED TO RELEASE THE FILES OF CITY POLICE OFFICERS.

THAT STILL HASN'T HAPPENED, AND NOW THE POLICE DEPARTMENT SAYS IT WON'T HAPPEN FOR ANOTHER TWO YEARS.

SHOULD THE CITY IMMEDIATELY RELEASE THOSE RECORDS, OR DO SO >> YES, I THINK IT CLEARLY HAS BEEN DONE IN OTHER MUNICIPALITIES THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES ON WHETHER THE STATE LAW IS BENEFICIAL AND PRUDENT, BUT THE FACT IS, IT IS STATE LAW AND THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OF OUR CITY GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO EXECUTE THAT LAW WHETHER THEY WANT TO OR NOT.

AND I GET IT THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS GET ALL KINDS OF STATE MANDATES THEY DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH.

BUT TRYING TO DELAY THIS BECAUSE THERE IS OPPOSITION TO THE SUBSTANCE OF THE LAW, IT JUST ISN'T GOOD PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION.

AND TALKING ABOUT LIMITATIONS IN TERMS OF CAPACITY OR RESOURCES ALSO ARE NOT PERSUASIVE.

THE LEGAL FEES THE CITY HAS ACCRUED TRYING TO FIGHT THIS LAW AND FIGHT WITH THEIR STALL TACTICS HAS TO BE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

IT'S TIME TO DO THIS EXPEDITIOUSLY LIKE UTICA AND OTHER CITIES HAVE.

>> SOME CITIES HAVE NOT DONE IT EXPEDITIOUSLY AT ALL BUT UTICA AND BUFFALO HAVE.

>> MY QUESTION IS SIMPLE.

WHO IS THE POLICE SUPPOSED TO SERVE AND WHO PAYS FOR THEIR SALARIES?

THE ANSWER IS PEOPLE.

SO IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN ALL OF THESE RECORDS SHOULD COME OUT ABSOLUTELY IMMEDIATELY.

IN NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT, THE CITY HAS CREATED A WEBSITE WHERE THERE ARE PLACES THAT SAYS THE NUMBER OF CLAIMS THAT ARE SUBSTANTIATED OR UNSUBSTANTIATED.

AND THE WHOLE BICKERING ABOUT THEY'RE UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS THAT MIGHT BE THERE.

YES, THE POLICE CULTURE IN THE UNITED STATES AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES IS TO PROTECT OTHER POLICE OFFICERS SUCH THAT, YOU KNOW, THESE CASES DOABTS GET SUBSTANTIATED SO IT'S THAT BUILT INTO THE SYSTEM.

THE OTHER IS YEAH POLICE CAN POLICE THEMSELVES?

MY QUESTION IS POLICE CAN POLICE THEMSELVES, WHY DON'T WE PROFESSORS JUST GIVE OUR STUDENTS TESTS AND HAVE THEM GRADE IT ALSO, RIGHT?

>> OR WRITE OUR OWN EVALUATIONS?

>> WE CAN WRITE OUR OWN EVALUATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT?

SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS KIND OF LUDICROUS.

>> THE POLICE WOULD SAY, I THINK, THAT POINT OF VIEW IS THAT THESE ARE PRIVATE MATTERS AND-- PERSONNEL RECORDS, EXCUSE ME.

AND THAT A LOT OF THE COMPLAINTS TURN OUT TO BE, YOU KNOW, WHEN THE INTERNAL REVIEW BOARDS LOOK AT THEM, TURN OUT TO BE WITHOUT VALIDITY.

>> YEAH, WELL A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SENT TO JAIL FOR YEARS AND YEARS WITHOUT VALIDITY, RIGHT?

I WOULD SAY THAT EVERYTHING THE PUBLIC SHOULD KNOW.

THE POLICE SERVES THE PUBLIC.

THE PUBLIC DOESN'T SERVE THE POLICE, RIGHT?

IT SHOULD BE OUT.

I'M UNY QIF EQUIVOCAL ABOUT THAT.

>> THERE MIGHT BE A WAY TO MEET THE CONCERNS ABOUT THE IDEA OF PUBLIC SMEAR CAMPAIGNS AGAINST CERTAIN OFFICERS WHERE THE CLAIMS MIGHT NOT BE SUBSTANTIATED.

AND I THINK YOU PROVIDE THEN AGGREGATE DATA, RIGHT?

YOU PROVIDE AGGREGATE DATA AS WELL ABOUT HOW MANY COMPLAINTS THERE ARE, HOW MANY RESULTED IN DISCIPLINARY ACTION OR NOT.

AND THEN LOOK AT THAT OVER TIME.

SO AS THE PUBLIC CAN JUST, WELL, HOW MANY COMPLAINTS ARE COMING IN AND HOW MANY RESULT IN DISCIPLINARY ACTION OR NOT.

AND IF THE PERCENTAGES ARE VERY, VERY LOW AND THE COMPLAINTS ARE VERY, VERY HIGH, THAT'S TELLING YOU SOMETHING ABOUT THAT POLICE DEPARTMENT WHILE PRESERVING SOME OF THE PERSONAL INFORMATION OF THESE OFFICERS.

>> NOW IN SYRACUSE APPARENTLY MORE THAN A THOUSAND DISCIPLINARY FILES BUT TWO-THIRDS OF THOSE ARE THE UNSUBSTANTIATED ONES THAT ANIRBAN DOESN'T LIKE.

WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE.

WE NEED TO GO TO THE As AND Fs.

NINA YOUR F. >> THIS WEEK THE POST STANDARD EDITORIAL BOARD ADVISED THE CITY OF SYRACUSE TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT INSTALLING AUTOMATED LICENSE PLATE READERS AT 26 LOCATIONS AROUND THE CITY.

STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT LESS THAN 1% OF SCANNED LICENSE PLATES ARE ON WANTED VEHICLES LIST, PLUS READERS ARE WRONG 30% OF THE TIME AND THE SELECTED LOCATIONS ARE PRIMARILY IN BLACK AND BROWN NEIGHBORHOODS.

I HOPE THE CITY HEEDS THE BOARD'S ADVICE TO TREAD CAREFULLY BEFORE APPLYING THIS INTRUSIVE TECHNOLOGY.

>> MY F GOES TO THE LOOSELY SCRIPTED RIGHT WING NETWORK FOX NEWS AND ITS HOSTS FOR KNOWINGLY SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION ABOUT VOTING MACHINES.

THE TRUTH IS CATCHING UP WITH THE POTENTIALLY $1.5 BILLION PRICE TAG WITH DOMINION DOMINATING THE NARRATIVE.

NOW A SHY MOVE BY A PRODUCER CALLED TUCKER CARLSON IS SUING FOX FOR $1.6 BILLION FOR SCAPEGOATING HIM AND I I AM RUNNING OUT OF POPCORN.

>> SARAH, YOUR F. >> MY F TO THE CITY OF JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI FOR FAILING TO FIX A BROKEN CITY WATER LINE THAT IS GUSHING FIVE MILLION GALLONS OF DRINKING WATER A DAY.

THE LEAK WAS DISCOVERED IN 2016 BUT NOTHING WAS DONE TO FIX IT AND THAT CREATED THIS HUGE CRATER AND CITY RESIDENTS ARE JUST, YOU KNOW, ENDURING ONE DRINKING WATER CRISIS AFTER ANOTHER.

LEAKS ARE COMMON IN SYSTEMS BUT THEY TYPICALLY GET PREPARED BUT THE CITY IS SO UNDERSTAFFED AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE SO OLD IT HAS LED TO THIS CRISIS.

>> MY F TO STORIES THAT RUSSIAN AUTHORITIES ARE KIDNAPPING RUSSIAN CHILDREN FROM ORPHANAGES AND DEPORTING THEM TO RUSSIA TO LIVE WITH NEW FOSTER PARENTS.

THIS IS A CLEAR VIOLATION OF INTERNATIONAL LAW.

>> AND TO THE As, NINA.

>> THIS WEEK MY A GOES TO DELANEY DENNIS AN 11-YEAR-OLD FROM TAMPA, FLORIDA, WHO STARTED A LEMONADE STAND IN 2019 TO HELP RAISE MONEY FOR ANIMAL RESCUES IN THE TAMPA BAY AREA.

TO DATE SHE HAS RAISED MORE THAN $61,000.

EACH MONTH SHE DONATES THAT MONEY TO A RESCUE ORGANIZATION.

SHE WAS RECOGNIZED IN 2022 AS KID OF THE YEAR.

THIS WEEK I'M RECOGNIZING HER AS MY SHERO.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY A TO THE SYRACUSE JAZZ FEST RETURNING TO DOWNTOWN SYRACUSE THIS SUMMER WITH A NEW AND EXPANDED FORMAT WITH STALWARTS LIKE GLADYS NIGHT AND HERBY HANCOCK.

THANKS TO AL STIRPE FOR HIS SUPPORT OF ARTS AND THE DIRECTOR OF THE FESTIVAL FRANK.

>> AND SARAH, YOUR A.

>> YEAH, MY A THIS WEEK GOES TO Mr. PICKLES.

YES, YOU HEARD THAT RIGHT.

Mr. PICKLES IS A 90-YEAR-OLD RADIATED TORE TORTOISSE WHO LIVES IN THE HOUSTON ZOO AND BECAME A FATHER.

HIS SPECIES RARELY PRODUCES OFFSPRING AND SO THE BIRTH OF THESE IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

ESPECIALLY GIVEN THAT THIS PARTICULAR SPECIES ARE CRITICALLY ENDANGERED.

>> AND LUKE.

>> CONGRATULATIONS Mr. PICKLES.

MY A GOES TO THE WORLD BASEBALL CLASSIC, THE TOURNAMENT ENDED RECENTLY IN DRAMATIC FASHION WITH THE TWO BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD SQUARING OFF OVER THE LAST OUT.

>> OKAY.

THAT WAS QUITE A FINISH.

SARAH, ON YOUR F YOU MENTIONED THE WATER PROBLEMS IN JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI.

AND IT'S A GOOD PEG TO POINT OUT A MAJOR REPORT CAME OUT THIS WEEK ABOUT WATER PROBLEMS WORLDWIDE.

LOOKING AHEAD, HUGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WILL HAVE NO POTABLE DRINKING WATER.

ON THAT NOTE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON THE SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.