>> GIVE THE PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT•$2,000 TARIFF REBATES AND 50-YEAR MORTGAGES?

WHEN YOU COME TO A FORK IN THE ROAD, TAKE IT.

TWO, VERY DIFFERENT PATHS FOR DEMOCRATS.

AND FIGHTING FIRE WITH FIRE•SHOULD NEW YORK STATE REDRAW VOTING DISTRICTS?

STAY TUNED, IVORY TOWER IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE, TARA ROSS FROM ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

AFTER THE SURPRISING RESULTS IN LAST WEEK'S ELECTIONS, THE WORD OF THE WEEK IS "AFFORDABILITY."

PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS FLOATED TWO SPECIFIC IDEAS HE SAYS WILL HELP PEOPLE'S POCKETBOOKS.

HE'S SAID THE GOVERNMENT WILL SEND $2,000 "TARIFF REBATE" CHECKS TO MOST AMERICANS.

AND FOR PROSPECTIVE HOMEOWNERS, HE'S LOOKING AT THE OPTION OF 50-YEAR MORTGAGES.

RICK, WILL THESE PROPOSALS BE EFFECTIVE IF IMPLEMENTED?

>> LET'S FIRST SAY THAT DONALD TRUMP IS AGAIN TALKING OUT OF BOTH SIDES OF HIS MOUTH.

ON ONE HAND HE IS SAYING WITH RESPECT TO AFFORDABILITY, I THINK THE POLLS ARE FAKE.

WE HAVE THE STRONGEST ECONOMY WE'VE EVER HAD.

IT DOESN'T APPEAR THAT VOTERS IN VIRGINIA AND NEW JERSEY AGREED WITH HIM.

AND AGAIN, IF THE ECONOMY IS SO STRONG, WHY IS HE PUTTING SO MUCH PRESSURE ON THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK TO LOWER INTEREST RATES.

LOWER INTEREST RATES IS WHAT YOU DO WHEN YOU HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT IS STAGNATING.

WITH RESPECT TO THE SPECIFIC THINGS THAT HE IS DOING TO TRY TO DEAL WITH AFFORDABILITY, I DON'T THINK THEY ARE VERY EFFECTIVE.

FIRST OF ALL, THE $2,000 CHECK WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

THE $2,000 PER TAXPAYER WOULD EXCEED ALL OF THE MONEY THAT IS PROJECTED TO BE COLLECTED UNDER THE TARIFFS IN THE NEXT YEAR.

>> OKAY, SO IF IT'S 1500 OR ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS, WOULD THAT HELP?

>> IT WILL PUT $1500 INTO PEOPLE'S POCKETS, BUT AGAIN, THE ECONOMY IS STRONG, THAT'S THE WRONG THING TO DO BECAUSE THAT WOULD JUST LEAD TO MORE INFLATION.

>> WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE ECONOMY REALLY, DESPITE HIM SAYING IT IS STRONG IS THAT IT HAS BEEN SLOWING.

WOULDN'T THAT JUST JUICE IT?

PRIME THE PUMP?

>> IF THAT'S WHAT WE ARE LOOKING TO DO, I THINK THAT SOME OF THE OTHER PROGRAMS THEY ARE LOOKING AT ARE MORE-- I DON'T THINK THAT THE TRUMP TARIFF CUT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> NINA.

I WOULD AGREE WITH YOU THAT HE HAS BEEN PRESSURING THE FEDERAL RESERVE BUT HE HAS BEEN DOING THAT SINCE DAY ONE OF HIS ADMINISTRATION.

AND HIS ARGUMENT HAS BEEN THAT WOULD BE ONE WAY TO SORT OF GIN UP THE ECONOMY.

I AGREE WITH YOU THERE IS SOME MIXED MESSAGING COMING OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

ON THE ONE HAND THE THINGS YOU SAID CALLING IT FAKE NEWS THAT SO MANY PEOPLE, 80% ARE SAYING THE ECONOMY IS A PROBLEM, CALLING IT A CON JOB ON THE PART OF DEMOCRATS.

BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, HE IS TAKING THESE STEPS AND HE HAS DONE SO SINCE HE HAS BEEN IN OFFICE, EVEN BEFOREHAND.

SORT OF THESE GIMMICKY MOVES OF PUTTING ON THE McDONALD'S UNIFORM AND THE MAKING WAGES NON-TAXABLE.

THE PROBLEM FOR THE PRESIDENT FROM A POLITICAL STANDPOINT IS THAT ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS ARE SUCKING THE AIR OUT OF WHATEVER HE IS TRYING TO DO AND EVEN THESE MORE RECENT MESSAGES, THE TARIFF WARS THAT HE HAS STARTED, THE IMMIGRATION RAIDS, THE EXACTING RETRIBUTION ON HIS POLITICAL ENEMIES AND SO ON.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS ARE DROWNING OUT WHATEVER MESSAGE HE MIGHT HAVE STARTED WITH BECAUSE, REMEMBER, WHEN HE CAMPAIGNED, HE SAID HE WOULD LOWER PRICES ON DAY ONE.

AND HE IS DOING THESE THINGS TO SORT OF SIGNAL HE IS AWARE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME SAYING THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM.

>> ANIRBAN, THE BILL POULTI, THE HEAD OF THE FEDERAL HOUSING FINANCE AGENCY SAID THAT A 50-YEAR MORTGAGE WOULD BE A GAME CHANGER.

>> THE CALCULATION OF THE 50-YEAR MORTGAGE IS RIDICULOUS.

WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND IS GOING TO TAKE THAT MORTGAGE.

SECOND OF ALL, NOBODY IS GOING TO FIGHT OVER GRANDMOTHER'S WILL IN MORE BECAUSE THERE WOULD BE SO MUCH DEBT LEFT OVER.

LET'S DO THE CALCULATION.

TAKE A 300,000 HOUSE AND MAKE A 20% DOWN PAYMENT.

IN THE 50 YEAR MORTGAGE YOU ARE LOOKING AT MONTHLY PAYMENT OF 1600.

AT 30 YEAR LOAN YOU ARE LOOKING AT A PAYMENT OF $1400.

THE INTEREST PAID ON THE 50 YEAR LOAN IS 5018 WHEREAS ON THE 30 YEAR-- 200,000.

THE A.M.I.

IS NOT THAT MUCH TO OUR COLLEAGUE'S POINT-- >> HOLD ON A SECOND.

MAYBE THOSE LOWER COSTS FOR SOME PEOPLE WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

THAT CAN GET THEM INTO A HOUSE.

TARA.

>> AND THAT'S-- IF THIS REALLY COMES TO FRUITION, THAT'S PART OF THE ALLURE OF IT IS PEOPLE WHO MAYBE COULDN'T AFFORD A 30-YEAR MORTGAGE MIGHT BE ABLE TO AFFORD A 50-YEAR MORTGAGE.

AND IN OUR AMERICAN ETHOS OF EVERY, YOU KNOW, PERSON BEING ABLE OR FAMILY BEING ABLE TO HAVE THEIR OWN HOME, MANY PEOPLE WILL BE SUCKED INTO THAT.

THEY WON'T DO THE CALCULATION OR CERTAINLY WON'T PAY ATTENTION.

WE ALL KNOW HOW IT GOES DURING THE WHOLE HOUSING PROCESS.

THEY MAY NOT REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO, AS YOU SAY, THE INTEREST I'M GOING TO PAY IS GOING TO BE MUCH MORE THAN I REALLY WOULD HAVE WANTED TO PAY IF I HAD TAKEN THE 30-YEAR LOAN.

>> THE PROBLEM IS, AS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ON THE SHOW MANY TIMES, THE PROBLEM IS THE SUPPLY OF HOUSING, NOT THE DEMAND FOR HOUSING.

AND ALL THIS IS GOING TO DO IS INCREASE THE DEMAND FOR HOUSING, WHICH WILL PUSH UP HOUSING PRICES EVEN MORE.

THIS IS NOT A SOLUTION TO THE FACT THAT MANY AMERICANS THINK HOUSING IS NOT AFFORDABLE.

>> GENERALLY IN A MARKET ECONOMY, PEOPLE DO BLAME THE PRESIDENT FOR PRICE RISES BUT THE PRESIDENT GENERALLY HAS NOT MUCH TO DO EXCEPT IN THIS CASE BECAUSE OF TRUMP'S TARIFFS, BECAUSE OF THE KIND OF CHAOTIC SITUATION THAT WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES GOING AFTER YOUR ADVERSARIES AND SO ON.

THIS REDUCES BUSINESS CONFIDENCE AND REDUCES CONSUMER CONFIDENCE AND THOSE ARE BEDROCK PRINCIPLES OF A GOOD FUNCTIONING ECONOMY.

ONCE TRUST GOES AWAY, PEOPLE PULL BACK ON THEIR EXPENDITURE, PEOPLE PULL BACK ON INVESTMENT.

AND AS A RESULT, OR PEOPLE WAIT THAT THESE TARIFFS ARE MOVING UP AND DOWN, SIDEWAYS ALL THE TIME, WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

SO BECAUSE OF THAT, I THINK THE ECONOMY IS IN A SLOWDOWN AND WE CAN SEE A STAGFLATIONARY EFFECT.

PEOPLE LOSING OF JOBS, LEACHING OF JOBS EVERY WEEK.

SO THAT HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT THE PRESIDENT ACTIVELY CREATED THAT SITUATION.

SO I'M NOT VERY SURE HOW WE ARE GOING TO WALK OUT THROUGH THIS, ESPECIALLY AFTER THIS MASSIVE TAX CUT THAT HE PROVIDED DURING A TIME WHEN THE ECONOMY WAS DOING QUITE ALL RIGHT.

>> WELL, THE TAX CUT, AND THERE WAS A CUT THERE AND NOW, IF THERE ARE THESE REBATE CHECKS-- ALTHOUGH YOU DON'T THINK IT IS GOING TO HAPPEN-- DOESN'T THAT OFFSET THAT?

THAT'S STIMULATING?

>> IT OFFSETS TO WHAT EXTENT?

LIKE IT IS NOT.

$2,000 TO PEOPLE IN A PAYCHECK WILL NOT DO MUCH TO WHERE BUSINESSES ARE NOT HIRING.

>> OKAY.

>> YOU CAN GIVE-- PEOPLE WILL BE HAPPY TO TAKE THE MONEY BUT THAT WILL NOT CHANGE THE GROUND REALITIES.

I AGREE WITH RICK ON THIS.

>> I WON'T CHANGE THE GROUND REALITIES, BUT AT THE RISK OF REPEATING WHAT YOU JUST SAID, ANIRBAN, I SHARE YOUR SENTIMENTS THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH THAT GOVERNMENT CAN DO IN ANY CAPITALIST SOCIETY.

AND RIGHT NOW WE ARE EXPERIENCING THE LOWEST CONSUMER CONFIDENCE MEASURES EVER.

AND SO IF THE PRESIDENT CAN FIND A WAY TO STOP UNDERMINING CONSUMER CONFIDENCE, THEN PERHAPS THERE WILL BE GREATER INCENTIVE.

>> PUTTING $2,000 IN PEOPLE'S POCKET IS NOT GOING TO DO IT.

THE FED IS ALREADY NOT GOING TO, I THINK DECREASE INTEREST RATES IN DECEMBER.

>> NOW THAT EVERYONE'S HAD A WEEK TO DIGEST THE ELECTION RESULTS, A BIG QUESTION AMONG DEMOCRATS IS WHICH PATH LEADS BACK TO NATIONAL RELEVANCE.

ZOHRAN MAMDANI WON IN NEW YORK CITY BY MOBILIZING YOUNG VOTERS AND ACTIVATING THE BASE.

OTHER DEMOCRATS WON BY HEWING TO A MORE MODERATE LINE.

NEITHER MAMDANI NOR OTHER PROMINENT WINNERS FOCUSED MUCH ON SOCIAL OR CULTURAL ISSUES.

SHOULD THE NATIONAL PARTY LOOK FOR MORE MODERATE CANDIDATES AND POLICIES, OR TAKE THE PROGRESSIVE APPROACH?

MAMDANIESQUE ROUTE.

>> NEITHER ONE.

WHAT THEY SHOULD DO IS LOOK FOR CANDIDATES WHO SPEAK TO THE ISSUES IN THEIR AREA AND THAT IF YOU LOOK AT EACH ONE OF THESE RACES, SPAMBERGER, AND MAMDANI'S THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.

WHAT ARE THE NEEDS OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR AREA AND AFFORDABILITY HAPPENS TO BE A NATIONAL ISSUE.

BUT THEY FOCUSED THAT AFFORDABILITY ISSUE ON THE AREAS THAT THEY LIVED IN.

MAMDANI, AFFORDABILITY VERY HEAVILY FOCUSED ON RENTAL AFFORDABILITY.

HOUSING, YES, BUT RENTAL AFFORDABILITY.

CHERYL, SHE LOOKED AT THE FACT THAT SHE HAS RURAL AREAS, SMALL TOWNS, AND LOOKED AT WHAT AFFORDABILITY MEANT FOR THEM.

FOCUSED HEAVILY ON AFFORDABILITY IN TERMS OF HOUSING, BUT ALSO IN TERMS OF GROCERIES BECAUSE THESE ARE PEOPLE WITH THE GOVERNOR.

>> AND NEW YORK CITY IS NOT LIKE ANY OTHER PLACE.

>> SEATTLE JUST NAMED KATIE WILSON, SHE WON AND SHE IS A SOCIALIST.

SHE WAS PROPOSING MANY OF THE SAME POLICIES THAT MAMDANI WAS.

BUT TWO OTHER MAYORAL RACES, DETROIT AND MINNEAPOLIS, DEMOCRATS WON AND THEY REALLY, THEY WENT MIDDLE OF THE ROAD.

AND SO I AGREE WITH TARA.

THE MESSAGE OF WE NEED TO DEAL WITH AFFORDABILITY IS SOMETHING THAT RESONATES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

HOW WE SAW THAT THE POTENTIAL SOLUTIONS HAVE TO BE TAILORED TO WHAT DIFFERENT AREAS OF THE COUNTRY ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT.

>> WHAT I'M HEARING HERE IS EVEN THOUGH HE WAS PROGRESSIVE AND HE WAS STILL PUSHING THE KITCHEN TABLE ISSUES AND SO THE MORE CULTURAL AND SOCIAL ASPECTS OF THIS ARE... >> YEAH, THEY WENT THE WAY OF THE WIND.

AND IT'S NOT TO SAY THAT THESE ISSUES WERE NOT IMPORTANT.

THEY WERE.

BUT I MEAN WE ARE HERE TALKING ABOUT THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLE OF DEMOCRATIC GOVERNANCE, AND THAT IS YOU HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE PEOPLE.

THAT'S JUST THE BOTTOM LINE HERE.

AND IN THE RUNUP TO THE 2024 ELECTION, EVERY TIME I HEARD DEMOCRATS SAY ABORTION IS NUMBER ONE, ABORTION IS NUMBER ONE, I WANTED TO JUST SCREAM BECAUSE ALL OF THE POLLS CONSISTENTLY SHOWED, CONSISTENTLY SHOWED THAT ABORTION WAS NOT NUMBER ONE.

CLIMATE POLICY WAS NOT NUMBER ONE.

AGAIN, TO MAKE THE POINT, IT'S NOT THAT THOSE ISSUES ARE NOT IMPORTANT.

BUT RATHER THEY WERE NOT IMPORTANT IN THAT SPACE AND TIME TO THE FOLKS.

AND IN ORDER FOR YOU TO GET THERE, RIGHT, DEMOCRATS HAVE THIS TENDENCY OF SORT OF LECTURING TO PEOPLE AND TELLING THEM THIS IS WHAT'S RIGHT.

HERE IS WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

INSTEAD OF TRYING THAT, TRY PERSUASION, TRY GOOD OLD FASHIONED GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION AND MAKING THE CASE TO THE AMERICAN AMERICAN PUBLIC BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT DEMOCRACY LOOKS LIKE.

>> I WILL START WITH A SIMPLE MLK QUOTE AND THE QUOTE GOES LIKE THIS.

CALL IT DEMOCRACY OR CALL IT DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM BUT THERE MUST BE A BETTER DISTRIBUTION OF WEALTH WITHIN THE COUNTRY FOR ALL GOD'S CHURN.

AND IF YOU POLL, IF YOU ACTUALLY DO THE POLL THAT THE OLD GUARD OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LIKE SPINELESS SCHUMER COULD NOT DO, THEY WILL FIND OUT THAT 15% OF THE DONALD TRUMP VOTERS PREFER DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM OVER CAPITALISM AND THE WORLD DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM DOES NOT RESONATE IN A COMMUNIST CONSPIRACY ANYMORE.

IT ACTUALLY STANDS FOR A SORT OF ECONOMIC SECURITY MORE AKIN TO THE NEW DEAL TRADITION AND THAT'S THE KIND OF THINGS THAT POLLS ARE SHOWING.

70% OF RESPONDENTS IN SEVERAL POLLS SAID THE ECONOMIC SYSTEM IS RIGGED IN FAVOR OF CORPORATIONS AND THE WEALTHY AND NEED TO BE REPLACED.

67% INDEPENDENTS, 58% REPUBLICANS.

SO IF THE DEMOCRATIC OLD GUARD DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU KNOW, JUST TELLING, YOU KNOW, JUST THIS RACE-BAITING, ISLAMIC PHOBIC SOMEWHERE, THE LITTLE COMMUNIST OR RUSSIA OR STALLIN.

THOSE THINGS DON'T WORK.

THE YOUNG PEOPLE AROUND ME I KNOW FOR A FACT CAN SEE THIS IN THEIR EYES.

THEY CAN LOOK AT THE DATA AND SEE THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED.

>> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED LOOK AT THE DATA AND YOU QUOTED Dr.

KING BECAUSE TO THAT VERY POINT, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF HIS WRITINGS, WHAT THEY POINT TO IS THE ULTIMATE AIM OF THE PROTEST ACTIVITIES AND WHAT HE SAID REPEATEDLY, IT WAS AIMED AT RAISING PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS, SHOCKING THE CONSCIENCE TO MAKE THE COUNTRY, AS A WHOLE, UNDERSTAND WHAT WAS HAPPENING IN THE SOUTH.

THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT WAS AN EDUCATIONAL MOVEMENT MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

AND THAT IS WHY IT WORKED.

>> BUT I HAVE TO DISAGREE ANIRBAN.

IF YOU LOOK AT PAST ATTEMPTS TO MAKE THE TAX SYSTEM MORE PROGRESSIVE, YOU FIND THAT MAJORITY OF AMERICANS BALK AT THAT, AND PART OF THAT IS, AGAIN, I THINK THAT MANY OF THE LOWER INCOME INDIVIDUALS SORT OF THINK OF THEMSELVES POTENTIALLY AS BEING IN THESE HIGHER TAX BRACKETS AND HAVE REJECTED-- I DON'T KNOW WHY-- BUT THEY HAVE REJECTED ATTEMPTS TO SIGNIFICANTLY MAKE OUR TAX SYSTEM MORE PROGRESSIVE.

>> I DON'T THINK-- THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN THE CASE BUT I THINK THE GROUND HAS SHIFTED AND MANY PEOPLE DON'T THINK ANYMORE THAT WITH THE REGULAR 40-HOUR JOB... >> WHY WERE SO MANY PEOPLE WILLING TO ELECT HIM WHEN THEY KNEW HE WAS GOING TO GIVE A HUGE MASSIVE TAX CUT TO THE WEALTHY AND THERE IS MORE COMING, BY THE WAY.

>> OKAY.

ON THAT NOTE, LAST WEEK CALIFORNIA VOTERS PASSED PROPOSITION 50, ALLOWING THE STATE TO REDRAW CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICTS.

IT WILL POTENTIALLY RESULT IN FIVE MORE SEATS HELD BY DEMOCRATS.

THIS WAS IN RESPONSE TO TEXAS DOING THE SAME TO GET MORE GOP SEATS.

SEVERAL OTHER STATES HAVE REDRAWN THE LINES MID-DECADE.

DEMOCRATS GENERALLY HAVE WANTED NON-PARTISAN COMMISSIONS TO DO THE JOB, INCLUDING HERE IN NY, BUT SHOULD GOVERNOR HOCHUL NOW PUSH TO REDRAW LINES FOR 20-26?

SHOULD GUN CONTROL PUSH TO SHOULD GROWL PUSH TO REDRAW THE LINES.

>> I WANT TO MAKE SURE WHERE I STAND.

THE INDEPENDENT RESTRICTING COMMISSIONS WERE THE TREND IN THIS COUNTRY AND IT CREATES FAIRER ELECTORAL MAPS AND IT IS BETTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND PROMOTES EQUITABLE REPRESENTATION.

HAVING SAID THAT TWO THINGS ARE GOING ON, THE SUPREME COURT CASE WITH THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

IF THAT PART FALLS, THEN WE CAN SEE REPUBLICANS ADDING BETWEEN, AS THE SURVEYS GO BETWEEN 12 AND 19 SEATS FROM THE SOUTH.

OF COURSE IN A HYPERPARTISAN ENVIRONMENT, IF YOU WILL, THE DEMOCRATS MUST RESPOND.

THEY HAVE TO RESPOND.

IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST, YOU WILL ASK THEM TO RESPOND.

NOW IT MIGHT ACTUALLY BE THE CASE THAT IF VIRGINIA, WHICH IS KIND OF A VIOLET STATE, KIND OF A LIGHT BLUE STATE, IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE THEIR CONSTITUTION AS WE ARE SEEING, IN ORDER TO ADD MORE SEATS, IN ORDER TO CHANGE THEIR CONSTITUTION, YOU KNOW, DEMOCRATS CAN CLOSE IN THAT GAP THAT THE REABSZ STARTED SO THERE WOULD BE A FIGHT TO SEE WHAT THAT GERRYMANDERING FIGHT ENDS UP WITH.

HOCHUL SHOULD DO IT BECAUSE EVERYBODY ELSE IS DOING.

>> IT FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE EVEN THOUGH IT MAY NOT BE GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY.

>> IT IS NOT GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY AND I AGREE... (ALL TALKING AT ONCE).

>> BUT WE SHOULD GO AHEAD AND DO IT.

>> WHAT WHAT HAPPENS-- ARE WE WILLING TO LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES IF ONLY RED STATES DO THIS AND BLUE STATES DON'T?

I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ANIRBAN.

NOW THERE IS SOME GOOD NEWS.

THERE ARE SOME STATES THAT ARE FIGHTING THIS, YOU KNOW, BOTH INDIANA AND KANSAS HAVE BLOCKED THIS, TWO RED STATES.

IT APPEARS MARYLAND MAY NOT BE WILLING TO GO.

I WOULD BE ALL IN FAVOR IF TEXAS ROLLED BACK THEIR DECISION, GO NORTH CAROLINA REVERSED THIS, BUT THE FACT IS, IF ONE SIDE CONTINUES TO PLAY BY ONE SET OF RULES, THE OTHER, UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK, IS FORCED TO, OTHERWISE WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE LONG-TERM CONSEQUENCES WHICH I THINK ARE WORSE FOR DEMOCRACY.

>> YOU PREFER IT DIDN'T HAPPEN BUT-- >> IT'S REGRETTABLE.

>> I MEAN IT IS REGRETTABLE BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO CALCIFY OUR ALREADY HISTORIC HART SAN POLARIZATION.

AND IT WILL ALSO UNDERMINE FAITH IN THE ELECTORAL PROCESS, BUT WHAT I'VE ALWAYS TAUGHT TO MY STUDENTS AND INTRO TO AMERICAN POLITICS CLASS IS THAT SO MUCH ABOUT ELECTION OUTCOMES ARE DECIDED BEFORE A SINGLE PERSON CASTS A VOTE.

FIRST THROUGH THE CHOICE OF AN APPORTIONMENT PLAN AND THEN ALSO THROUGH REDISTRICTING BUT I AGREE WITH MY COLLEAGUES HERE, I DON'T SEE WHAT THERE IS TO DISCUSS HERE.

IF YOU HAVE ONE SIDE THAT IS RIGGING THE GAME AND THE OTHER SIDE SITS ON PRINCIPLE ON THE SIDELINE AND DOES NOTHING, THEN THAT FURTHER UNDERMINES THE DEMOCRATIC NATURE OF BOTH OUR ELECTORAL PROCESS, BUT ALSO THE DECISIONS THAT COME OUT OF THE ELECTED LEGISLATIVE BODIES.

THOSE WILL NOT BE REPRESENTATIVE.

SO IT IS INCUMBENT UPON DEMOCRATS TO ENSURE THAT THIS PROCESS IS DEMOCRATIC.

>> NOW THIS ALL STARTED WITH TEXAS, RIGHT, AND DON'T MESS WITH TEXAS.

BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE POSSIBLY, AFTER LAST WEEK'S ELECTION, THAT IT'S NOT OUT OF THE QUESTION IT COULD BACKFIRE THE WAY THE HISPANIC VOTE SHIFTED IN THE ELECTIONS LAST WEEK.

>> IT ABSOLUTELY COULD, AND THE OTHER THING, THE OTHER POSSIBILITY IN TERMS OF BACKFIRING IS THE FACT THAT YOU DO HAVE, AS RICK MENTIONED, REPUBLICAN-LED STATES PUSHING BACK AGAINST THIS AND, YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY, ASSUMING THE GOVERNOR-- OUR GOVERNOR DOES GO AHEAD AND SUPPORT REDISTRICTING, THEN REALLY I THINK THERE ALSO NEEDS TO BE A SECOND PART OF THIS AND THAT IS WHAT IS THE PLAN AFTERWARDS?

DO YOU CREATE A NEW INDEPENDENT COMMISSION, NOT WITH EQUAL NUMBER OF DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS BECAUSE THAT CLEARLY DIDN'T WORK.

THERE HAS BEEN SUGGESTION THAT THERE SHOULD NOT BE ANY POLITICIANS ON THE REDISTRICTING COMMISSION.

IT SHOULD BE, YOU KNOW, INDEPENDENT CITIZENS.

WHO ARE NOT SO SELF INTERESTED.

AND SO THAT, I THINK, IS THE SECOND PART OF THIS AND PROBABLY THE MORE IMPORTANT PART AT THIS POINT IN OUR HISTORY.

>> I DO WONDER ONCE YOU GO DOWN THIS ROAD, CAN YOU EVER GET BACK TO A MORE MEASURED PROCESS?

>> CALIFORNIA DID.

CALIFORNIA HAD A VERY PARTISAN-- THEY HAD SET UP A MAP, WHICH ENSURED THAT ALL INCUMBENTS WON IN BOTH PARTIES AND THAT'S WHEN THE PUBLIC WENT AND PUT IN, CHANGED THEIR CONSTITUTION, CHARLIE MUNGER, WHO WAS ONE OF THE DRIVING FORCES OF THIS, THEY GOT IN THE BIPARTISAN COMMISSION AND CALIFORNIA ENDED UP WITH A MORE BALANCED ELECTION.

SO I DO THINK YOU CAN GO BACK.

>> AND IT WAS VOTERS THAT RECOGNIZED WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE NATIONAL SCALE, NOT JUST BY A SMIDGEON BUT BY OVER 60%.

AND IT'S REMARKABLE, THE IDEA THAT VOTERS IN CALIFORNIA WENT TO THE POLLS TO VOTE FOR AN IDEA.

THERE WEREN'T ANY CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOT.

IT WAS TO SUPPORT THIS IDEA THAT THE SYSTEM SHOULD NOT BE RIGGED.

AND EVEN IF IT IS ALREADY RIGGED, WE SHOULDN'T RIG IT ANYMORE.

>> AND CALIFORNIA HAS A DEADLINE ON IT.

THIS IS-- THEY'RE GOING BACK TO THE COMMISSION IN TWO YEARS.

>> AND I THINK THREE-- I WAS GOING TO MAKE THAT POINT.

I THINK THREE CYCLES.

AND I DID JUST HEAR-- WELL YESTERDAY, I BELIEVE THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS NOW TRYING TO BLOCK THE CALIFORNIA MOVE, SAYING THAT THAT WOULD BE MORE RACIAL GERRYMANDERING, WHICH IS -- >> WHICH IS STRANGE BECAUSE WE STARTED WITH TEXAS AND THAT'S WHY WE ARE HERE.

>> I WONDER WHETHER THEY WOULD ENTER THE CASE AGAINST TEXAS.

PROBABLY NOT, RIGHT?

>> AND THAT ONE WAS PROVEN IN COURT TO HAVE RACIAL OVERTONES.

>> NOW IT IS TIME FOR THE As AND THE FS.

AND NINA, WE'LL BEGIN WITH YOUR F.

>> SOMEONE QUIETLY TUCKED A SHAMEFUL PROVISION IN THE BIPARTISAN SHUTDOWN ENDING BILL.

IT AWARDS A $500,000 CASH BONUS TO SENATORS WHOSE PHONE RECORDS WERE SUBPOENAED BY FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL JACK SMITH AS PART OF A GOVERNMENT INVESTIGATION.

THE EXPLANATION FOR THIS PAYOUT IS IT SUPPOSEDLY PROTECTS SENATORS FROM AN OUT OF CONTROL DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.

WHAT IS STILL UNCLEAR IS WHO WILL PROTECT TAXPAYERS FROM AN OUT OF CONTROL SENATE THAT THINKS IT'S OKAY TO LINE THEIR POCKETS WITH OUR MONEY.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE CONTINUING ISRAELI STRIKES AND KILLING OF PALESTINIANS IN VIOLATION OF CEASE FIRE.

ASSOCIATED PRESS REPORTS THAT ISRAEL VIOLATED THE CEASE FIRE AGREEMENT AT LEAST 282 TIMES BETWEEN OCTOBER 10 AND NOVEMBER 10 THROW THE CONTINUATION ATTACK OF AIR STRIKES, ARTILLERY AND DIRECT SHOOTINGS.

THE GOVERNMENT MEDIA OFFICE IN GAZA REPORTS THIS.

ISRAEL HAS CONTINUED TO BLOCK VITAL HUMANITARIAN AID AND DESTROY HOMES AND INFRASTRUCTURE ON THE STRIP.

>> TARA.

>> MY F GOES TO NEW YORK 15th DISTRICT CONGRESSMAN RITCHIE TORRES.

HE HAS BEEN PROMOTING G.O.P.

GLP-1 DRUGS ON SOCIAL MEDIA SAYING THESE DRUGS WILL REF LEGISLATIVE RESOLUTIONIZE HEALTHCARE.

HE RARELY MENTIONED THE NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS OF THE DRUGS, WHICH CAN INCLUDE THINGS LIKE BLINDNESS, GASTROINTESTINAL PROBLEMS.

NOR DOES HE TALK ABOUT THE BASIC DAILY REGIMEN THAT YOU HAVE TO BE ON OR THE FACT THAT IF YOU GET OFF THIS REGIMEN AND YOU HAVEN'T MET YOUR GOAL WEIGHT AND DON'T MAINTAIN IT, THE WEIGHT TYPICALLY COMES BACK PRETTY QUICKLY.

>> RICK, YOUR F.

>> MY F GOES TO THE I.R.S.

AND TREASURY DEPARTMENT FOR UNDERMINING THE CORPORATE ALTERNATIVE MINIMUM TAX.

CONGRESS PASSED THIS TAX IN 2022, AIMED AT COMPANIES THAT PUBLICLY ANNOUNCE LARGE PROFITS, BUT THEN REPORT LITTLE TO NO PROFITS ON THEIR TAX RETURNS AND THEREFORE PAY LITTLE TAXES.

WITHOUT CONGRESSIONAL APPROVAL, THE I.R.S.

IS REVISING RULES, WAIVING PENALTIES AND MAKING OTHER CHANGES THAT WILL ALLOW THESE COMPANIES TO AVOID PAYING OVER $200 BILLION IN TAXES.

EVEN THE CONSERVATIVE THINK TANK THE AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE HAS SAID "TREASURY HAS CLEARLY BEEN ENACTING UNLEGISLATED TAX CUTS."

>> OKAY, NOW TO THE AS.

MEAN THEY OORKS.

>> NINA.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO UPSTATE UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL EMERGENCY ROOM STAFF.

KNOWING LIKES GOING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM BUT THE DOCTORS, HOSPITAL STAFF, SECURITY, TECHNICIANS EVERYONE AT UPSTATE GOES THE EXTRA MILE TO ESPECIALLY SURE THE BEST PATIENT CARE WHEN I HAVE HAD TO ACCOMPANY MY 96-YEAR-OLD MOTHER THERE, THANK YOU AND KUDOS.

>> ANIRBAN, YOUR A.

>> MY A GOES TO THE ORTHODOX JEWS IN FIRKT WHO ORGANIZED A PROTEST AGAINST ANTI-ZIONISM AND DEFENDED SO RAN MAMDANI.

THE PROTESTORS SHOWED UP WITH BOLD SIGNS SAYING JUDAISM AND ZIONISM ARE DIE METIC-- DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED.

>> MY A GOES TO WORLD RENOWNED CELLIST YO-YO-MA AND ANNA GONZALES FOR THEIR NEW PODCAST ON COMMON GROUND.

THIS SEVEN-PART SERIES HAS HIM PLAYING WITH INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES AND INTERVIEWED BY GONZALES AND FOCUSING ON PLACES WHERE SONGS, STORIES AND LAND COME TOGETHER IN POWERFUL WAYS.

>> AND RICK, YOUR A.

>> MY A KNOW, I'M A BASEBALL FAN AND WE REALLY HAVE HAD QUITE A REMARKABLE YEAR AND IT'S A REMARKABLE TIME.

THIRD M.V.P., OTANI, FOUR M.V.P.

BASEBALL IS THE BEST.

WE'LL LEAVE IT WITH THAT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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