WELCOME TO THIS MONTH'S EDITION OF "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM."

WHERE WE WILL HIGHLIGHT EFFORTS TO REDUCE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS SHINE THE LIGHT ON NEW YORK'S POST PENNY PLANS AND GET A STATUS CHECK ALEGAL SEDIMENT SETTLEMENT DISWHRARS USED TO BATTLE THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC.

ALL THAT AND MORE COMING UP NEXT.

>> THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> I'M DAVID LOMBARDO AND YOU ARE WATCHING "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM," A COLLECTION OF INTERVIEWS WITH POLITICAL LEADERS, POLICYMAKERS, ADVOCATES AND JOURNALISTS COVERING ALL OF IT.

UP FIRST WE ARE CHECKING IN WITH ASSEMBLYMEMBER JOHN McDONALD, A CAPITAL REGION DEMOCRAT LOOKING TO GIVE BUSINESSES GUIDANCE IN HOW TO IN A WORLD WITHOUT THE PENNY.

ASSEMBLYMEMBER THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> GOOD TO BE HERE, DAVE.

>> BACK IN 2025, PRESIDENT TRUMP SUSPENDED THE PRODUCTION OF PENNIES AND DID SO WITHOUT PROVIDING GUIDANCE OR ADDITIONAL LAWS ON HOW BUSINESSES SHOULD RESPOND TO THE ENSUING SHORTAGE OF THE PENNIES.

YOU'VE GOT A BILL NOW AWAITING THE GOVERNOR'S SIGNATURE THAT WOULD PROVIDE SOME CLEAR GUIDANCE TO BUSINESSES.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT WOULD LOOK LIKE?

>> TO BE CLEAR, NO ONE DISAGREES WITH WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO DO.

WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PREFERRED SINCE THERE IS AN ENTITY CALLED THE TREASURY THAT MAYBE CONGRESS WOULD PASS A BILL TO GIVE THE CLARITY.

IN THE ABSENCE OF THAT, STATES HAVE BEEN LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES AND PART OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF STATE LEGISLATORS, WE HAD A MEETING WITH THE TREASURY AND THEY SAID YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN.

FIGURE IT OUT.

WHAT WE PUT FORTH IS LEGISLATION, PASSED BOTH HOUSES AS YOU SAID, AWAITING THE GOVERNOR'S SIGNATURE, THAT REALLY MIMICS THE CANADIAN MODEL, AND THE EUROPEAN MODEL WHERE WE DO ROUNDING.

>> THE QUEEN'S PICTURE?

>> NO ONE'S PICK PICTURE IS ON THE BILL.

BASICALLY WE ESTABLISHED ROUNDING TECHNIQUES.

AND PEOPLE SAY WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS?

IT'S NOT THE BIGGEST BILL IN THE WORLD.

BUT GUESS WHAT?

AS A BUSINESS OWNER, OFTEN TIMES BUSINESSES GET HUNG UP ON THE CRAZY CLAIMS AND PENALTIES AND FINES BECAUSE THERE IS NO CLARITY ON WHAT SHOULD BE DONE.

SO, BASICALLY, WE SAY IF IT IS ONE OR TWO CENTS, YOU ROUND DOWN, THREE OR FOUR CENTS YOU ROUND UP.

SIX OR SEVEN YOU ROUND DOWN TO THE NICKEL.

EIGHT OR NINE UP TO THE 0.

AND IT GIVES CLARITY.

IT DOESN'T HURT ANYBODY FINANCIALLY.

IT DOESN'T WEAKEN OR IMPACT THE STATE'S TREASURY IN REGARDS TO WHAT WE COLLECT.

IT ONLY DEALS WITH, YOU KNOW, CASH TRANSACTIONS.

CREDIT CARD, DEBIT, ALL THOSE THINGS GO ABOUT AS THEY NORMALLY WOULD.

SO I THINK IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE MOST COMPLICATED.

I THINK IT'S NECESSARY.

PEOPLE, IT'S FUN WHAT IS GOING ON WITH THE PENNY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE OUT THERE GATHERING PENNIES BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE COLLECTORS ITEM.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO THE BANK AND TRYING TO GET THEIR PENNIES CASHED IN BECAUSE BUSINESSES ARE STRUGGLING WITH KEEPING UP WITH THE PENNIES UNTIL THERE IS CLARITY.

>> ARE YOU SURPRISE THERE HAD HASN'T BEEN MORE URGENCY AT THE STATE LEVEL TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE-- >> IT'S FUNNY.

I DID TALK TO TAX AND FINANCE AND THEY DIDN'T REALLY GET TOO ENERGIZED ABOUT IT.

THEY WEREN'T SAYING IT WAS A BAD IDEA.

THEY JUST WEREN'T-- TO BE HONEST, SOMETIMES WITH THE AGENCIES, THEY DON'T TEND TO SHOW HANDS BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION ON LEGISLATION.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK IT MAKES SENSE.

CONSUMERS SHOULD HAVE SURETY, BUSINESSES HAVE SURETY, GOVERNMENTS SHOULD HAVE SURETY.

AND THAT'S WHAT I HOPE THIS BILL DOES.

>> IS THERE ANY REASON WHY THE GOVERNOR MIGHT NOT SIGN THIS?

HAVE YOU HEARD FROM ANY INTERESTED PARTY ABOUT WE CAN'T DO THIS FOR X, Y, Z REASON?

>> I HAVE NOT HEARD A GOOD-- I HAVEN'T HEARD MUCH OF ANYTHING AGAINST THE BILL.

FROM ANYBODY.

I THINK, EVEN TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, TALKING TO OUR OWN ASSEMBLY STAFF, DO WE REALLY NEED TO DO THIS.

HERE ARE THE REASONS WHY.

FORTUNATELY GROUPS LIKE NFIB, THE FOOD INDUSTRY ALLIANCE, THEY VALIDATED IT SAYING WE NEED SURETY.

WE WANT TO HAVE IT.

AND QUITE HONESTLY, IN THIS STATE, IF WE CAN DO A SOMETHING SIMPLE TO HELP BUSINESS ALONG, WHY NOT DO IT?

>> IS THERE A NATURAL EXPECTATION THAT FIVE, 10 YEARS FROM NOW, WE ARE GOING TO BE SITTING DOWN HERE AND TALKING ABOUT HOW WE ARE ROUNDING TO THE NEAREST DIME AT SOME POINT?

>> I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED.

I PERSONALLY DON'T CARRY CASH ANYMORE.

I JUST DON'T.

THERE IS NO REASON TO.

>> YOU ARE THE ONLY BOOMER I THINK WHO DOESN'T CARRY CASH AT THIS POINT.

>> NOT DOING A COMMERCIAL FOR STEWART'S BY MY COFFEE OF CHOICE IS STEWART'S I HAVE A GIFT CARD I REFILL ALL THE TIME AND I DON'T NEED TO TOUCH CASH.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE UNIQUE THINGS THAT CAME UP DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN PEOPLE WERE AFRAID TO TOUCH THINGS.

I KEPT THINKING ABOUT THE POOR CLERK WHO HAD TO DEAL WITH THIS ALL THE TIME.

RUNNING A BUSINESS FOR YEARS, I'M SENSITIVE TO THAT.

THE PENNY, AT THE END OF THE DAY COSTS 3.5 CENTS TO PRINT A PENNY.

DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

COSTS ABOUT 7 CENTS TO PRINT A NICKEL.

AT SOME POINT, THAT CONVERSATION SHOULD BE HAPPENING.

>> IF ANYONE HAS ANY CONCERNS, I WOULD APPRECIATE A PENNY FOR THEIR THOUGHTS.

THANK YOU.

>> LET'S TURN TO ANOTHER ISSUE YOU ARE LOOKING TO ADDRESS, HAS DO WITH THE USE OF NITROUS OXIDE AS A RECREATIONAL INHALANT BY NEW YORKERS.

PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE HEARD OF THIS IN TERMS OF LAUGHING GAS AT THE DENTIST.

BUT NEW YORK ADDRESSED THIS ISSUE, AT LEAST STARTED TO IN 2021 WITH RESTRICTIONS RELATED TO AGE ON WHO COULD PURCHASE THESE LITTLE CANISTERS OFTEN USED FOR MAKING WHIP CREAM IN, SAY, AN ICE CREAM SHOP OPPOSED TO IT GOING THE REDI-WHIP CAN.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE CURRENT LANDSCAPE THAT IS INADEQUATE AND IS REQUIRING, AT LEAST FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, ADDITIONAL RESTRICTIONS ON THIS?

>> I HAVE SEEN THIS FIRSTHAND WITH INDIVIDUALS.

NITROUS OXIDE, THINK OF IT AS AN ANESTHETIC.

IT FREEZES YOUR BRAIN BUT IT'S CHEMICAL MOIETY IS SUCH A QUICK ONSET AND QUICKLY LEAVES THE BODY.

WHEN PEOPLE USE A LOT OF IT, THEY BECOME ALMOST, I DON'T WANT TO SAY PARALYZED BUT THEY'RE FROZEN AND THEY'RE INCAPACITATED.

AND SOMETHING DANGEROUS COULD HAPPEN.

BUT BY THE SAME TOKEN, LAW ENFORCEMENT HAS NO WAY OF EVER CATCHING SOMEONE BEING IN THAT STATE IN REGARDS TO SHOWING UP.

YOU KNOW, ALCOHOL, DRUGS, THEY SHOW UP.

THIS ELIMINATES THE SYSTEM VERY QUICKLY.

SO THEREFORE, YOU KNOW, OUR APPROACH IS, WE ARE NOT TOUCHING THE COMMERCIAL MARKETS.

I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO THINK, BECAUSE I REMEMBER GOING TO THE STEWART'S ONE DAY AND SEEING THIS SIGN THAT YOU HAVE TO BE OVER 21 TO BUY WHIPPED CREAM.

THAT SEEMS KIND OF CRAZY.

HOWEVER, WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS NO RETAILER CAN BE SELLING THESE.

THERE BRAIN.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS IT'S VERY ADDICTIVE LIKE MANY OTHER ITEMS AND IF WE CAN SOMEHOW, AT LEAST, WHAT WE ARE DOING ON THE BILL, WE RAISED THE PENALTIES, LIKE A $500 FIRST OFFENSE, A THOUSAND DOLLARS SECOND OFFENSE TO ANY RETAILER CAUGHT BY ANY AUTHORITY BY SELLING THESE AS A RETAIL PURPOSE.

IT DOES NOT DIMINISH USING IT FOR MEDICAL PURPOSES.

DOES NOT DIMINISH USING IT FOR COMMERCIAL PURPOSES BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION BUT STOPS THE RETAIL PERSPECTIVE.

>> AND PEOPLE MIGHT BE THINKING, WELL, NEW YORK HAS LEGALIZED MARIJUANA.

NEW YORK ALLOWS PEOPLE TO GO OUT AND HAVE AS MANY BEERS AS THEY WANT AS LONG AS THEY DON'T GO AND DRIVE.

WHY SHOULD THIS BE SOMETHING YOU CAN'T ACCESS?

>> IN MY RESEARCH AND I GUESS IN MY OPINION, THIS HAS BEEN UNDER THE RADAR SCREEN FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

IT'S BEEN VERY MUCH READILY AVAILABLE.

I'VE SEEN FIRSTHAND THE DELETERIOUS EFFECTS IT CAN HAVE ON INDIVIDUALS AND IT MAKES THE ROADS MUCH MORE DANGEROUS FOR INDIVIDUALS.

INDIVIDUALS I KNOW HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DRIVE MILES AND IMPEACHMENT TRIALS AND ARE GOING AROUND KNOCKING DOWN MAIL BOXES AND THINKING THEY'RE NOT HURTING ANYBODY.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD HAVE ITS DAY.

AND IT'S GOT GREAT BIPARTISAN SUPPORT IN OUR HOUSE.

KEITH BROWN WHO IS UNFORTUNATELY LEAVING US FROM LONG ISLAND AND MATT SIMPSON.

THEY WERE MY BIGGEST ADVOCATES.

>> THIS CAME UP SHORT IN THE BLEM.

WAS THAT A PRODUCT OF RUNNING OUT OF TIME OR WERE PEOPLE... >> IT WAS A TIME ISSUE.

LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, THERE IS A SEASONALITY AND THEN THERE IS ACTUAL A WALL.

IT HIT THE WALL AT THE END OF THE DAY.

IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE ONLY SO MANY BILLS WERE GOING THROUGH.

WE HAD ACTUALLY WORKED IT-- I THINK IT WENT TO CONSUMERS FIRST.

CONSUMERS OR-- IT WAS A UNIQUE COMMITTEE THEN IT GOT TO CODES BUT DIDN'T GET FAR ENOUGH.

>> IT WAS CLOSE TO THE FINISH LINE.

>> IT IS VERY RARE THAT I WILL ACTUALLY GET UP AND SAY TOO MUCH ON THE FLOOR BECAUSE THERE ARE ENOUGH PEOPLE TALKING ON THE FLOOR AND WE ARE TRYING TO NOT RUN THE CLOCK OUT.

WE ARE TRYING TO MOVE THINGS ALONG.

I ACTUALLY HAD PREPARED SOME COMMENTS.

I ACTUALLY THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO GET THROUGH IT.

IT JUST DIDN'T HAPPEN.

>> IS THIS AN AREA IN ADDITION TO TOUGHER MONETARY PENALTIES THERE NEEDS TO BE TOUGHER CRIMINAL PENALTIES AS WELL?

>> I THINK LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, I KNOW OUR BODY PRETTY WELL.

WE TRY TO BE SENSIBLE WHEN IT COMES TO WHEN WE ARE GOING TO ENHANCE CRIMINAL PENALTIES.

I ALWAYS TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THERE ARE MANY OF OUR PUBLIC WORKERS IN DANGER BECAUSE OF PEOPLE, THE WAY THEY'RE DRIVING TO PUBLIC WORKS PROJECTS.

THAT'S WHERE I SUPPORT THAT.

THIS ONE, I WANT TO TAKE AN INCREMENTAL APPROACH.

INCREMENTAL IS PROBABLY THE BEST WAY TO TAKE IT.

>> IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING FINALLY THIS IS SOMETHING DISPROPORTION ATLY A PROBLEM FOR KIDS?

DISPROPORTIONATELY HITTING OTHER COMMUNITIES OR A BROAD ISSUE?

>> UNFORTUNATELY WITH SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER, IT IMPACTS ALL DIFFERENT AGE GROUPS AND I THINK THIS IS WHERE THIS ONE-- I HAVE SEEN IT IN YOUNG.

THIS WAS GOING ON WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

>> THEY STILL HAVE PENNIES BACK THEN.

PENNY WAS WRORTSDZ A PENNY BACK THEN.

>> PROBABLY TWO DOLLAR BILLS, TOO.

ASSEMBLYMEMBER THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE TIME.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

THANKS, DAVID.

>> NOW WE WILL HEAR FROM Dr.

CHINAZO CUNNINGHAM, COMMISSIONER OF THE STATE OFFICE OF ADDICTION SERVICES AND SUPPORTS WHO SAT DOWN WITH US TO DISCUSS THE ALLOCATION AND SPENDING OF HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS SCWUR SECURED FROM LEGAL SETTLEMENTS WITH OPIOID MANUFACTURERS AND DISTRIBUTORS SUPPOSED TO AUGMENT THE STATE'S FIGHT AGAINST THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC.

THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION HAS COME UNDER FIRE FOR THE PACING OF FUNDING DISTRIBUTION AND SERVICE PROVIDERS ALSO RAISING CONCERNS WITH THE TYPE OF PROGRAMS RECEIVING SUPPORT.

HERE IS OUR CONVERSATION WITH Dr.

CUNNINGHAM APPRECIATE.

>> APPRECIATE IT, DAVID.

>> BEFORE WE GET INTO HOW THE SETTLEMENT DOLLARS ARE DOLED OUT, CAN YOU GIVE US BACKGROUND "ON THE MONEY" OBTAINED FROM SETTLEMENTS WITH OPIOID MANUFACTURERS, AND DISTRIBUTORS FOR THEIR ROLE IN CONTRIBUTING THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC AND HOPEFULLY USING SOME OF THAT MONEY TO COMBAT THE EPIDEMIC?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE EXPERIENCED THE WORST OVERDOSE EPIDEMIC ON RECORD.

THE GOOD NEWS IS THAT THE NUMBERS ARE DOWN SIGNIFICANTLY.

SO IN NEW YORK STATE, THERE IS A 44% REDUCTION IN OVERDOSE DEATHS.

AND WE ARE LEADING, YOU KNOW, IT'S BETTER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE IN TERMS OF THAT REDUCTION.

BUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENED, YOU KNOW, HOW DID WE END UP HERE WITH THE WORST OVERDOSE EPIDEMIC ON RECORD AND A LOT OF THAT HAD TO DO WITH PRESCRIPTION OPIOIDS.

THROUGH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OFFICE, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, DISTRIBUTORS AND MANUFACTURERS OF OPIOIDS HAVE BEEN SUED AND THESE DOLLARS ARE GOING TO PREVENT THIS KIND OF THING FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

SO WE ARE VERY PROUD OF OUR WORK IN NEW YORK STATE.

WE HAVE HAD DISTRIBUTED OVER $450 MILLION TO COMMUNITIES TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE AT LOWER RISK OF DYING, LOWER RISK OF DEVELOPING AN ADDICTION AND REALLY PREVENTING THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN.

YOU KNOW, NEW YORK STATE IS ACTUALLY LEADING THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF GETTING THESE DOLLARS OUT INTO COMMUNITIES IN TERMS OF THE SPEED AND THE AMOUNT OF DOLLARS.

>> WELL, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT AND HELP ME RECONCILE THAT CLAIM WITH WHAT WE HEAR ON THE GROUND FROM SOME PROVIDERS, WHICH IS CONCERNS ABOUT THE PACE OF THE MONEY BEING FLOWED OUT.

AND AS YOU POINTED OUT, IT IS MORE THAN $450 MILLION MADE AVAILABLE SINCE SEPTEMBER OF 2025, SOMETHING THAT IS HIGHLIGHTED IN THE NEW REPORT YOU PUT OUT ON SETTLEMENT DOLLARS.

IS THERE A DISCONNECT?

IS IT JUST THAT THINGS ARE NEVER FAST ENOUGH FOR PEOPLE WHEN THEY WANT IT, ESPECIALLY IN A CRISIS LIKE WE ARE HAVING HERE?

WHY DO YOU FEEL LIKE THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND ARE DISSATISFIED TO SOME DEGREE, THAT SOME ARE DISSATISFIED?

>> I THINK WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT IS FOR PEOPLE TO RECOGNIZE THERE ARE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF HOW THE DOLLARS FLOW.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE DIRECT FUNDS.

AND THAT'S ACTUALLY THE MAJORITY OF THE DOLLARS.

SO THAT'S ABOUT 46% OF ALL OPIOID SETTLEMENT DOLLARS.

THOSE DOLLARS GO FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE THROUGH A THIRD PARTY DIRECTLY TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

SO CITIES AND COUNTIES.

SO OASAS HAS NO ROLE IN THAT AND I DON'T THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT.

THE MONEY DOESN'T COME THROUGH US AT THIS STATE AND WE DON'T TELL CITIES AND COUNTIES HOW TO USE THOSE DOLLARS.

THEN THERE IS ANOTHER CATEGORY OF MONEY CALLED THE STATE DISCRETIONARY FUND AND THAT IS ABOUT 36%.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR FOR OASAS.

THOSE ARE THE DOLLARS THAT ARE GOING OUT TO THE COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS TO PROVIDE PREVENTION, TREATMENT, HARM REDUCTION, RECOVERY SERVICES.

THEN THERE IS ANOTHER CATEGORY CALLED REGIONALAL ABATEMENT THAT IS ABOUT 17%.

AND THAT GOES DIRECTLY TO COUNTIES.

THROUGH-- ADMINISTERED THROUGH OASAS AND GOES TO THE COUNTIES AND THE COUNTY DECIDES HOW TO USE THE DOLLARS.

SO THE MARKET OF THE-- THE MAJORITY OF THE DOLLARS ARE GOING TO LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

SO WHAT THEY'RE DOING WITH THEIR DOLLARS, I CAN'T TELL YOU.

WE DON'T TELL THEM HOW TO USE THE DOLLARS.

THEY HAVE TO USE THE DOLLARS ACCORDING TO THE LEGAL AGREEMENTS AND THERE ARE NINE WAYS TO USE THAT.

THEY CAN'T USE IT FOR BRIDGES AND POT HOLES.

BUT THEY HAVE TO USE IT FOR PREVENTION AND TREATMENT AND HARM REDUCTION AND HOUSING AND TRANSPORTATION AND RECOVERY ET CETERA, ET CETERA.

BUT, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT, OF COURSE, VARIATION IN HOW THE COUNTIES ARE USING THE DOLLARS.

BUT OUR DOLLARS, THE STATE STRESSARY FUNDS-- DISCRETIONARY FUNDS, THAT'S WHERE WE FOCUS ON WHERE WE HAVE CONTROL AND WE PUT THE DOLLARS OUT INTO THE COMMUNITY.

NOW THE THING ABOUT THIS IS THAT WE HAVE ALSO HEARD FROM OUR ADVISORY BOARD AND FROM PROGRAMS, WE DON'T WANT ALL THE MONEY IN JUST ONE YEAR RIGHT, BECAUSE WE CAN'T DEVELOP PROGRAMS THAT START AND END IN A YEAR.

SO THESE PROGRAMS OCCUR OVER MULTIPLE YEARS.

WE HAVE MULTIYEAR CONTRACTS.

WE WOULDN'T EXPECT THAT ALL THE DOLLARS WOULD BE SPENT IN ONE YEAR.

THE DOLLARS ARE BEING SPENT OVER MULTIPLE YEARS.

AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT, TOO, BECAUSE THE DOLLARS ARE GOING DOWN WITH THE OPIOID SETTLEMENT FUNDS SO IT'S 1 YEARS -- 18 YEARS OF FUNDING BUT REALLY THE DOLLARS ARE GOING DOWN OVER THE 18 YEARS AND SO TO PLAN FOR THAT; WE ARE USING THE EARLY DOLLARS OVER MULTIPLE YEARS TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE IS SUSTAINABILITY.

>> AND BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ALLOCATED ALREADY, I THINK A TOTAL OF $ABOUT 3 ONCE THINGS ARE ALL SAID AND DONE, WHAT IS BEING DONE AND WHAT WILL BE DONE IN THE FUTURE TO MONITOR THIS SPENDING?

HAVE YOU BEGUN ANY SORT OF AUDITS OF WHAT THE STATE IS SPENDING IT'S MONEY OR SOME OF THE MORE DIRECT MONEY THAT IS GOING OUT THE DOOR?

>> YES, WE HAVE.

>> I CUED YOU UP FOR THAT ONE.

>> WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF AUDITS RIGHT NOW WITH ABOUT 19 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

SO THESE ARE AUDITS FOR THE REGIONAL ABATEMENT.

SO THIS IS ONLY ONE CATEGORY OF FUNDING.

>> 16, 17%.

>> RIGHT.

>> THE DIRECT FUNDS THAT DO NOT GET CENTERED THROUGH YOU THE-- ADMINISTERED THROUGH US, WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO AUDIT THOSE DOLLARS.

>> WOULD YOU LIKE THE AUTHORITY IF THE LEGISLATURE SAID IN 2027, I HEARD THIS GREAT INTERVIEW THAT DAVID LOMBARDO DID WITH Dr.

CUNNINGHAM, SOUNDS LIKE SHE NEEDS ADDITIONAL AUTHORITY, LET'S GIVE IT TO HER.

WOULD YOU SAY, WE'LL TAKE.

>> IT THIS IS A CONVERSATION TO HAVE WITH THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE BUT I THINK THIS IS THE THICK THAT PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, THERE ARE DIRECT FUNDS GOING TO CITIES AND COUNTIES NOT THROUGH OASAS AND WE DON'T HAVE AUTHORITY TO TELL THEM HOW TO USE THOSE DOLLARS, NOR TO AUDIT THEM.

>> AND WITH REGARD TO THOSE REGIONAL ABATEMENT DOLLARS, THOUGH, WHERE DO THINGS STAND WITH THAT AUDIT RIGHT NOW AND WHY IS THAT SOMETHING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IN 2026 OPPOSED TO 2023,-FOR, 2025.

>> OBVIOUSLY THINGS TAKE TIME.

GETTING THE DOLLARS DISBURSED OUT TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, AND THEN THEY HAVE SET UP THEIR OWN PROCESSES FOR HOW TO GET THOSE DOLLARS OUT.

AND SO SOME OF THEM, YOU KNOW, MAY HAVE GOTTEN THE DOLLARS OUT VERY QUICKLY AND OTHERS NOT SO MUCH.

BUT WE ARE WORKING, YOU KNOW, WITH OUR COUNTERPARTS IN ALL OF THE COUNTIES.

THEY ARE REPORTING TO US IN TERMS OF INITIALLY WHAT THEIR PLANNED USE WAS.

WE MADE THAT AVAILABLE, THAT INFORMATION AVAILABLE ON THE WEBSITE AND ULTIMATELY HOW THEY HAVE USED THOSE DOLLARS IS IN THE REPORT.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT THAT APPROXIMATELY 38%, THE STATE SHARE OF THE MONEY?

WHAT SORT OF REVIEW IS ONGOING OR PLANNED FOR THAT MONEY?

>> YEAH, SO WE ARE DOING AUDITS AS WELL FOR THOSE, YOU KNOW, INITIATIVE SPECIFIC DOLLARS.

SO YOU KNOW, WE AUDIT OUR PROGRAMS ALL THE TIME IN REGULAR COURSE OF BUSINESS SO THIS IS ALSO GOING TO BE PART OF THAT IS WHAT THE OPIOID SETTLEMENT FUNDS.

SO, AND THOSE DOLLARS, JUST TO BE CLEAR, THAT INFORMATION HAS BEEN ON OUR WEBSITE SINCE THE BEGINNING IN TERMS OF REALLY BEING ABLE TO TRACK HOW THE DOLLARS ARE GOING TO THE COMMUNITY-BASED ORGANIZATIONS, YOU KNOW, HOW THEY'RE BEING USED FOR TREATMENT OR RECOVERY OR TRANSPORTATION OR HOUSING ET CETERA.

>> ALTHOUGH IN THE WAKE OF THE EXPERIENCE WITH THE ORGANIZATION SAVE THE MICHAELS WHICH IS RUN BY, I DON'T KNOW IF HE IS STILL A MEMBER OF THE OPIOID SETTLEMENT FUND ADVISORY BOARD, QUESTIONS HOW THEY ARE SPENDING SOME OF THE STATE DOLLARS THEY'VE GOTTEN.

ARE YOU SECOND GUESSING HOW ORGANIZATIONS ARE SPENDING ANY OF THEIR MONEY, WHETHER IT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO WHAT WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE THE MOST IMPACT ON PEOPLE?

IS THAT MAKING YOU SECOND GUESS THE REVIEW PROCESS?

>> WELL, SO, IN ADDITION TO THE FORMAL AUDITS, WE ALSO HAVE REGULAR MEETINGS WITH THE PROVIDERS THAT ARE GETTING MONEY.

WE MEET WITH THEM MONTHLY AND MAKE SURE IF THERE ARE ANY ISSUES OR BARRIERS, ET CETERA, THAT WE LEARN EARLY ABOUT THEM AND THEN, YOU KNOW, CAN HELP THEM EITHER WORK THROUGH THAT PROCESS OR IF THE DECISION IS TO, YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS LIKE THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO DO THAT, WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT THOSE DOLLARS CAN GO ELSEWHERE.

SO THOSE ARE ONGOING PROCESSES THAT WE HAVE WITH OUR PROVIDERS.

>> KEY ELEMENT OF THIS MONEY WAS THIS IDEA THAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO AUGMENT WHATEVER THE STATE WAS ALREADY DOING TO ADDRESS THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC AND THERE HAVE BEEN CONCERNS RAISED, MAYBE THEY'RE REAL, MAYBE THEY'RE IMAGINED ABOUT MONEY BEING USED TO SUPPLANT EXISTING OR PREVIOUS STATE EFFORTS.

WHAT SORT OF SAFEGUARDS ARE THERE IN THE WAY YOU DOLE OUT MONEY TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS NO BLURRING OF THE LINES?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, SO WE ARE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THIS LAW AND WE, YOU KNOW, OUR DOLLARS ARE NOT GOING TO SUPPLANT OTHER DOLLARS.

SO THEY ARE REALLY GOING TO AUGMENT, YOU KNOW, FREF SERVICES AND SO WHETHER THAT MEANS WHOLE NEW INITIATIVES LIKE DOING OUTREACH IN COMMUNITIES, REACHING THOSE AT HIGHEST RISK OR IF IT MEANS EXPANDING SERVICES SO IN OUR RECOVERY CENTERS, FOR EXAMPLE, BEING ABLE TO DO MORE OUTREACH OR HIRE MORE PEERS, THAT KIND OF THING.

WE ARE VERY CLEAR IN TERMS OF OUR BUDGET REVIEWS AND CONTRACTS ABOUT THESE DOLLARS NOT BEING USED TO SUPPLANT PREVIOUS DOLLARS AND THAT'S ALSO CLEAR IN THE REPORT BECAUSE WE ALSO PROVIDE THE BASELINE FUNDING PRIOR TO OPIOID SETTLEMENT DOLLARS.

>> 2022 HAD THINGS GOT UP AND RUNNING IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, HAS THE STATE'S COMMITMENT FROM ITS SHARE OF DOLLARS CONTINUED TO GROW IN TERMS OF WHAT THEY'RE SPENDING ON THE OPIOID EPIDEMIC?

HAS IT REMAINED FLAT BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE MIGHT POINT TO AND SAY, WELL, X, YZ DIDN'T GO UP AS MUCH AND WE ARE SPENDING SOMETHING SIMILAR WITH THE SETTLEMENT DOLLARS SO MAYBE THERE IS SOME SUPPLANTING.

>> IN THIS YEAR'S BUDGET OUR BUDGET WENT UP BY 8% IN THE FACE OF ALL OF THESE FEDERAL CHALLENGES AND ATTEMPTED FEDERAL CUTS, YOU KNOW, OF THE WORK THAT WE ARE DOING.

SO WE ARE PLEASED IN THAT INCREASE IN OUR BUDGET.

>> WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS CONVERSATION HEADING IN THE FUTURE, GIVEN THE FEDERAL SORT OF ANTIPATHY TOWARDS SOME OF THE GOALS THAT YOU GUYS ARE INVESTING, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO SOMETHING LIKE HARM REDUCTION?

>> WE ARE VERY CONCERNED.

I MEAN HARM REDUCTION IS A GREAT EXAMPLE.

THERE ARE DECADES OF STUDIES THAT HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, PUBLISHED ON THE EVIDENCE OF USING A HARM REDUCTION APPROACH.

SO WE ARE FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE.

SO, YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SEEMS TO BE IGNORING A LOT OF THE SCIENCE BASED ON IDEOLOGY BUT WE ARE FOLLOWING THE SCIENCE AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE ARE FIGURING OUT WAYS, SO NOT USING OUR FEDERAL DOLLARS, BUT SPENDING MEDICAID DOLLARS, MAYBE YOU ARE ROLLING MONEY OVER FROM YEAR TO YEAR.

THERE ARE CERTAIN PRACTICES THAT MAYBE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE OR THINGS THAT THEY ARE PROACTIVELY MAKING ISSUES THAT MIGHT NOT ACTUALLY BE ISSUES?

HOW BIG OF A DEAL ARE THE MEDICAID DOLLARS?

>> SO IT'S A BIG DEAL.

SO IN OUR SYSTEM, AMONG THOSE WHO HAVE SUBSTANCE USE DISORDER, ABOUT TWO-THIRDS OF THEM HAVE MEDICAID SO ANY CHANGE TO MEDICAID WILL HAVE AN OUTSIZED IMPACT ON THE FIELD OF ADDICTION.

SO WE ARE VERY CONCERNED, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T CONTROL MEDICAID.

WE DON'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY OVER THAT.

THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH DOES.

WE ARE WORKING ACROSS AGENCIES TO MAKE SURE THAT WE CAN SAFEGUARD AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND MITIGATE THE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES AND THEN CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, EDUCATE OUR PROVIDERS AND, YOU KNOW, NEW YORKERS ABOUT WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY, IF THEY'RE ELIGIBLE FOR MEDICAID THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE TO GET THAT.

>> THINKING ABOUT THE FLOW OF THE SETTLEMENT DOLLARS, AGAIN, HOW HAS A LACK OF WORKFORCE IMPEDED YOUR ABILITY TO SPEND DOLLARS BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, YOU ARE TRYING TO SET UP PROGRAMS FOR 1, 2, 3 YEARS POTENTIALLY, YOU NEED BODIES TO ACTUALLY STAFF THEM.

AND THIS DIRECT CARE WORK IS OFTEN HARD, NOT THE BEST PAID, AND THERE ARE STRUGGLES TO STAFF THESE JOBS.

SO IS THAT PRESENTING SOME SORT OF CHALLENGE?

AND IF IT IS, HOW ARE YOU TRYING TO ADDRESS IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT NEARLY EVERY SINGLE MEETING THAT I HAVE WITH PROVIDERS WORKFORCE ISSUES COME UP.

AND LET ME TELL YOU ALSO, THIS IS NOT NEW.

THIS HAS BEEN DECADES OF UNDERINVESTMENT IN THE ADDICTION FIELD.

SO YOU KNOW, DURING COVID NOW THAT MADE-- MANY OF THESE WERE MADE WORSE WITH DECADES OF UNDERINVESTMENT AND WE ARE SEEING THIS PLAY OUT IN A WAY THAT HAS AN IMPACT ON THE FIELD.

WE HAVE REALLY IMPLEMENTED A LOT OF INITIATIVES TO ADDRESS THIS.

WE ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT OVERNIGHT, RIGHT?

SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 30 YEARS.

BUT WE ARE MAKING A DENT.

SO WE HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, 2,000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE GOTTEN SCHOLARSHIPS IN ORDER TO BECOME A CREDENTIALED COUNSELOR, A CERTIFIED RECOVERY PEER ADVOCATE OR PREVENTION SPECIALIST.

WE HAVE PAID INTERNSHIPS SO THAT PEOPLE WILL GO INTO THE FIELD AS THEY'RE DOING THEIR INTERNSHIPS AND THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO STAY THERE.

WE, YOU KNOW, HAVE LEADERSHIP DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS SO THAT PEOPLE STAY IN THE FIELD SO THEY CAN WORK ON THE CAREER LADDER AND THEIR OWN PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT.

WE HAVE FELLOWSHIP PROGRAMS WITH THE MEDICAL SCHOOLS SO THAT MEDICAL STUDENTS AND PHYSICIANS AND SOCIAL WORKERS AND NURSES AND NURSE PRACTITIONERS CAN GET ADDITIONAL ADDICTION TRAINING.

THERE IS NOT ONE WAY TO FIX THIS.

AND SO THERE IS MULTIPLE INITIATIVES THAT WE HAVE TO REALLY ATTRACT MORE PEOPLE INTO THE FIELD AND KEEP PEOPLE IN THE FIELD.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE THE ONE WAY WOULD BE FOR SOMEBODY TO BACK UP A DUMP TRUCK OF CASH TO A PROVIDER AND SAY HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO MAKE $40 AN HOUR INSTEAD OF $20 AN HOUR.

>> AND WE HAVE INCREASED REIMBURSEMENT RATES, TOO, AS WELL, SO THAT THROUGH INSURANCE REIMBURSEMENT, OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

I THINK CERTAINLY MONEY IS PART OF IT, BUT YOU KNOW, WE ALSO HEAR IT'S NOT ALL ABOUT MONEY.

>> IT'S A CALLING FOR PEOPLE.

>> YES, ABSOLUTELY.

AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT AS WELL.

AND THEY WANT TO BE SEEN AND BE SATISFIED AND BE ABLE TO CONTINUE TO GROW AND LEARN.

>> Dr.

CUNNINGHAM, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> FOR MORE ON STATE EFFORTS TO ADDRESS SUBSTANCE USE, CHECK OUT OUR RADIO ARCHIVES AT "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM" TOLLPRESS ROOM.ORG.

AND NOW WE WILL TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE NEW YORK STATE RESEARCH DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY SUMMARIZING THEIR ROLE IN PROMOTING GREEN JOBS AND HOME ENERGY EFFICIENCY AS WELL AS OTHER SUCCESSES.

WE SPOKE ABOUT THE FINDINGSES IN THE CAPITOL WITH NYSERDA PRESIDENT AND C.E.O.

DOREEN HARRIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME PRESIDENT HARRIS.

>> ANY TIME YOU ASK I'M HERE.

>> I WILL HOLD YOU TO THAT.

I WANT TO START WITH AN ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT MIGHT SEEM COUNTERINTUITIVE TO LISTENERS GIVEN THEIR EXPERIENCE WITH THEIR ENERGY BILLS THIS SUMMER AND WINTER BUT THE CLAIM THAT AS A RESULT OF NYSERDA, NEW YORKERS NOW SAVE OVER $2.3 BILLION ON THEIR ENERGY BILLS ANNUALLY.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHERE THOSE SAVINGS ARE AND NYSERDA'S ROLE IN ACHIEVING THEM?

>> YES.

NYSERDA HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE FOR OVER 50 YEARS NOW, AND THIS ACCOMPLISHMENTS REPORT IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO REFLECT ON THE IMPACT THAT WE HAVE HAD OVER THOSE 50 PLUS YEARS.

ULTIMATELY, WE ARE AN ENERGY AGENCY OF THE STATE, OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR PLANNING ON BEHALF OF NEW YORK STATE FOR OUR ENERGY FUTURE, BUT ALSO WE EXECUTE ON PROGRAMS AND HAVE DONE SO FOR DECADES IN SOME INSTANCES, BRINGING TECHNOLOGIES FORWARD TO BE READY FOR THE MARKET, BUT ALSO DEPLOYING TECHNOLOGIES IN PEOPLE'S HOMES, COMMUNITIES, BUILDINGS, INDUSTRY, ET CETERA, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS METRIC REALLY EQUATES TO IS THE WAYS IN WHICH OUR INVESTMENTS HAVE RESULTED IN THESE BENEFITS.

THE BENEFITS CAN TAKE MULTIPLE FORMS, BUT SAVINGS ON ENERGY BILLS IS ESSENTIAL PLACE THAT WE WANT TO FOCUS.

IN MANY WAYS THE 70S WHEN WE WERE FORMED IS NO THE THAT DIFFERENT FROM TODAY WHERE ENERGY COSTS, FRAG FRAGILITY OF OUR ENERGY SYSTEMS AND SUPPLIES OF ENERGY ARE CENTRAL.

SO OUR INVESTMENTS IN SAVINGS, OF COURSE START WITH ENERGY EFFICIENCY.

WE INVEST IN INSULATION IN PEOPLE'S HOMES, WEATHERIZATION OF THEIR ROOFS, WINDOWS, ET CETERA.

THAT'S A GREAT PLACE TO START AND A GOOD BIT OF THAT $2 BILLION COMES FROM REDUCING ENERGY USE.

BUT IT ALSO COMES FROM THE UTILIZATION OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT HELP US BE MORE EFFICIENT WITH ENERGY.

AND TECHNOLOGY, LIKE A HEAT PUMP IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF AN EFFICIENT TECHNOLOGY FOR HEATING AND COOLING THAT ALSO CAN REDUCE COSTS AS WELL.

SO WE REALLY ADD THAT ALL UP.

WE DON'T JUST RUN PROGRAMS.

WE EVALUATE THEM AND DEVELOP VERY TIME TESTED MEANS BY WHICH TO DETERMINE THE IMPACT OF THE PROGRAMS.

WHEN YOU ADD IT ALL UP, THAT'S THE NUMBER THAT THE METRICS REPORT AND ACCOMPLISHMENT REPORT REFLECTS.

>> WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN?

WHAT DID THE STATE OR NYSERDA MORE SPECIFICALLY HAVE TO SPEND TO REALIZE $2.3 BILLION IN SAVINGS ANNUALLY ON THINGS LIKE WEATHERIZATION GRANTS OR INVESTMENTS IN HEAT PUMPS?

>> I WOULD SAY THE SPENDING SIDE IS REFLECTED IN DIFFERENT REPORTS.

OUR BUDGET RIGHT NOW IS AROUND $3 BILLION A YEAR THAT WE EXPEND FOR MANY THINGS, INCLUDING THE ADVANCEMENT OF RENEWABLE ENERGY.

WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT SOLAR YET BUT THAT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE OF AN INVESTMENT WE ARE MAKING THAT IS SAVING NEW YORKERS MONEY.

EVERY SUMMER THE NUMBERS GET EVEN BETTER.

THIS SUMMER ALONE WE SET A RECORD BACK IN JUNE FOR SOLAR POWER DEEMPLOYMENT ON THE ORDER OF 29% OF OUR GENERATION AT THE NOON HOUR ON JUNE 3.

BUT ALSO WHEN THE HEATWAVES CAME LATER THAT SUMMER, THE SAVINGS THAT CAME WAS ON THE ORDER OF $200 MILLION IN JUST ONE DAY THAT OUR DISTRIBUTED SOLAR TECHNOLOGIES SAVED NEW YORKERS BY REDUCING THE PEAK LOAD ON THOSE DAYS.

SO, OF COURSE WE LOOK AT INVESTMENTS AND WE LOOK AT SAVINGS AT THE SAME TIME THOSE SAVINGS CAN TAKE CERTAINLY MANY FORMS AND WHEN WE SEE THESE TECHNOLOGIES DEPLOYED AT THIS SCALE, THAT'S WHERE THOSE SAVINGS CAN REALLY ADD UP.

>> I WANT TO THANK MORE-- THINK MORE THAN THE COST BENEFIT HERE BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY HEARD DURING THIS WINTER WHEN THERE WERE HIGH ENERGY BILLS, REPUBLICANS IN PARTICULAR WERE SAYING, LET'S TAP INTO THOSE DOLLARS THAT NYSERDA HAS, PARTICULARLY THOSE MONEY THAT WHILE IT MIGHT BE COMMITTED, HASN'T ACTUALLY BEEN SPENT YET.

WHAT WOULD IT MEAN TO THESE GOALS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OR YOUR FUTURE PLANS IF THAT MONEY WAS RAIDED BECAUSE MAYBE THERE IS A CASE TO BE MADE THAT WOULD BE PENNY WISE AND A POUND FOOL ISSUE?

-- FOOLISH.

>> CERTAINLY THESE ARE INVESTMENTS THAT TAKE MANY YEARS TO ADVANCE FULLY THROUGH.

DEVELOPMENT LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IS DECADES IN THE MAKING.

>> YOU PULLED THAT ONE RIGHT OUT.

>> TALKING ABOUT INFRASTRUCTURE.

A MEGA EXAMPLE OF IT BUT SOMETHING LIKE DECARBONIZING A MULTIFAMILY BUILDING CAN TAKE YEARS TO GO FROM OUR CONTRACT COMMITMENT TO THE ACTUAL EXPENDITURE LOGGED IN OUR SYSTEM FROM AN ACCOUNTING PERSPECTIVE.

SO THE FUNDS THAT WE HAVE ARE PROGRAMMED AND THOSE PROGRAMMED FUNDS ARE REPORTED ON VIA MANY, MANY, MANY REPORTS, AS IT RELATES TO NOT ONLY THE STATUS BUT THE IMPACT THAT THEY'RE HAVING.

AND THAT'S, FOR ME, THE CENTRAL PART OF THIS IS THAT WE ARE INVESTING.

SO, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THESE ARE VERY WISE INVESTMENTS.

THIS REPORT DEMONSTRATES THAT.

BUT MANY OTHER WAYS IN WHICH OUR INVESTMENTS ARE BENEFITING NEW YORKERS ARE RELEVANT AS WELL.

THE WAYS IN WHICH WE ARE NOT ONLY BRINGING THESE TECHNOLOGIES TO MARKET, BUT WE ARE SEEING THE JOBS THAT ARE CREATED.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

THE REPORT HIGHLIGHTS 185,000 CLEAN ENERGY JOBS IN NEW YORK.

SO CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE GREEN ECONOMY NEW YORK HAS NOW AND NYSERDA'S ROLE IN REALLY CHANGING THE ECONOMY?

>> YES, BELIEVE IT OR NOT, AROUND THE COUNTRY, THERE IS A LOT OF NYSERDA ENVY OUT THERE.

>> OKAY.

>> AND-- >> THEY'RE GREEN WITH ENVY?

>> THEY'RE GREEN WITH ENVY.

I DON'T SAY THAT JUST AS THE LEADER OF NYSERDA BUT GENERALLY WE ARE AN INSTRUMENT OF THE STATE THAT HAS DEMONSTRATED FLEXIBILITY, ABILITY TO BE MARKET FORWARD AND TO REALLY DRIVE INVESTMENTS AND IMPACT.

AND CERTAINLY OUR JOBS ARE A GREAT EXAMPLE OF THAT.

NEW YORK BENEFITS GREATLY AND NEW YORKERS BENEFIT GREATLY FROM OUR CLEAN ENERGY ECONOMY IN MULLET PAY WAYS NOT JUST FROM THE PROJECTS AND THE IMPACTS THEREOF BUT THE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT THAT COMES WITH IT AMONG THAT BEING JOBS.

YOU MINGED THE 185,000 JOBS THAT WE NOW HAVE IN THE CLEAN ENERGY WORKFORCE.

THAT'S EVERYTHING FROM SOLAR INSTALLER TO AN OPERATOR OF A WIND FARM TO A HEAT PUMP MANUFACTURER.

THE ATTORNEYS THAT SPEND THEIR TIME IN CONTRACTING AND OTHER MEANS.

SO THE POINT BEING THIS IS AN ECONOMIC ENGINE.

I THINK WE ALL THINK ABOUT ENERGY SYSTEMS DIFFERENTLY TODAY THAN PERHAPS WE DID DECADES AGO.

ENERGY IS CENTRAL TO OUR ECONOMIC GROWTH AS A STATE BUT IT ALSO IS PART OF THAT ECONOMIC GROWTH AND THAT'S A REAL BENEFIT FOR NEW YORKERS.

>> HOW TEMPORARY ARE THESE CLEAN ENERGY JOBS BECAUSE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE GOVERNOR'S MORATORIUM ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF DATA CENTERS SHE POOH-POOHED MANUFACTURING JOBS AS TEMPORARY IN NATURE.

SO ARE THESE CLEAN ENERGY JOBS ALSO JUST TEMPORARY MANUFACTURING JOBS?

YOU TALKED ABOUT A RANGE OF JOBS, BUT ARE THE BULK OF THEM TEMPORARY OR IS THERE REASON TO THINK THIS IS PART OF A NEW PERMANENT ECONOMY?

>> WELL, WE CERTAINLY RECOGNIZE THAT THE COMMITMENT TO THESE TECHNOLOGIES AND TO OUR PROGRESS IS CENTRAL TO MAKING SURE THESE JOBS ARE DURABLE.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL HAS CERTAINLY DEMONSTRATED THAT OVER HER ALMOST FIVE YEARS IN OFFICE.

SHE HAS HAD TO NAVIGATE A LOT OF TWISTS AND TURNS, AS HAVE WE, RELATIVE TO GLOBAL MARKET DYNAMICS AND NOW, OF COURSE, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S ASSAULT REALLY ON THESE TECHNOLOGIES.

BUT ALL THAT TO SAY, OUR JOBS-- OUR STATE DOES NOT OPERATE IN A VACUUM.

IT IS RELEVANT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE WORLD AS WELL AS IN THE COUNTRY.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE KNOW IS THAT OUR COMMITMENT REMAINS FIRM.

THESE JOBS ARE THE PRODUCT OF THAT DURABLE COMMITMENT AND SOMETHING WE INTEND TO MAINTAIN.

>> ONE OF THE NYSERDA PROGRAMS THAT WE HAVE COVERED A LOT OVER THE LAST SIX YEARS IS WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE BUILD READY PROGRAM, ESSENTIALLY GETTING THE UNDESIRABLE SITES READY FOR GREEN ENERGY PROJECTS.

AND THERE WAS A PIVOT WITH THAT PROGRAM IN 2025, I THINK, KIND OF A RECOGNITION THAT MAYBE IT WASN'T AS SUCCESSFUL AS ENVISIONED NOT A LOT OF TAKERS FOR IT.

THAT MADE ME WONDER AS YOU DID THIS LOOK BACKWARD AND INWARD, WAS THERE ANY SENSE OF AREAS WHERE MAYBE WE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER OR MAYBE WE SHOULDN'T HAVE TAKEN THIS STEP?

WAS THERE ANY INTROSPECTION IN THIS REPORT?

>> WELL, WE EVALUATE ALL OF OUR PROGRAMS IN A MANNER THAT HELPS US LOOK OBJECTIVELY AT THEIR IMPACT.

SOME ARE DESIGNED FOR DIFFERENT FORMS OF IMPACT.

BUT IRRESPECTIVE OF THAT, WE CERTAINLY LOOK AT THE DELIVERY OF THOSE PROGRAMS AGAINST THE OUTCOMES THAT WE SEEK.

AND IT IS TRUE THAT NOT ALL PROGRAMS ARE WILDLY SUCCESSFUL.

IN SOME CASES IT'S BECAUSE OF THE DESIGN, BUT IN OTHER INSTANCES IT'S BECAUSE OF MARKET DYNAMICS, MARKET READINESS, TECHNOLOGY CHALLENGES, ET CETERA.

AND PART OF OUR JOB AS THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK, IS TO TAKE SOME CHANCES ON TECHNOLOGIES TO BRING THEM TO MARKET.

A GOOD EXAMPLE MIGHT BE THE INVESTMENTS WE MADE IN BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE TECHNOLOGIES DECADES AGO.

THAT NOW HAS BROUGHT US TO THE POINT AS A STATE IN WHICH WE ARE ACTUALLY A HUB FOR MUCH OF THE BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE INNOVATION, INVESTMENTS IN UNIVERSITIES AND NOW MANUFACTURING ACROSS OUR STATE.

BUT THERE MAY BE OTHERS THAT WERE NOT MARKET READY AND OUR JOB IS TO, AS WE CALL IT, FAIL FAST.

TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE MINIMIZING THE IMPACTS OF THOSE TYPES OF INVESTMENTS BY HAVING SOLID MARKET ANALYTICS AROUND THE IMPACT OF THE PROGRAMS.

>> IN THIS VEIN BECAUSE YOU HAVE BEEN HERE IN A COUPLE OF YEARS IN THIS ROLE, ARE THERE ANY INITIAL FAILURES FOR PROGRAMS THAT DIDN'T ACHIEVE THE INITIAL RESULTS WHERE YOU THEN PIVOTED OR DID SOMETHING AND NOW YOU POINT TO AN ACCOMPLISHMENT IN THIS REPORT THAT IS THE RESULT OF MAYBE SOME EARLY GROWING PAINS?

>> SURE.

I WOULD CALL VEHICLE ELECTRIFICATION IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WAYS IN WHICH THAT MARKET HAS EVOLVED AND CHANGED TO THE POINT WHERE NOW WE SEE A VERY STRONG EMPHASIS ON ELECTRIFICATION.

ONE OF THE THINGS WITHIN THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS REPORT IS A METRIC OF OVER 225,000 EV AND PLUG-IN HYBRID VEHICLE REBATES WE HAVE ISSUED.

THAT'S THE PRODUCT OF A DURABLE CHARGE READY NEW YORK PROGRAM THAT WE HAVE ADVANCED FOR ELECTRIFIED VEHICLES.

BUT WE ALSO HAVE INVESTED, FOR EXAMPLE, IN HYDROGEN AS AN EXAMPLE OF A TECHNOLOGY THAT, IN EARLIER DAYS, WAS CONSIDERED AN ALTERNATIVE TO ELECTRIFICATION FOR LIGHT DUTY PASSENGER VEHICLES.

WHAT HAS HAPPENED NOW IS REALLY THE MARKET HAS CENTRALIZED AROUND ELECTRIFICATION AND WE HAVE DONE SO WITH MYRIAD INVESTMENTS AROUND ELECTRIFIED LIGHT DUTY TRANSPORTATION BUT IN YOUR OWN WORDS, WHY DO THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME?

>> WELL, IT GOES TO SHOW YOU THAT IF YOU CHANGE THE NAME OF A REPORT AND A FOCUS OF A REPORT, PEOPLE WILL PAY ATTENTION.

LOOK, WE HAVE TO ALWAYS REPORT ON OUR OPERATIONS AND ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

WE DO SO TO OUR BOARD ANNUALLY.

AND REALLY THIS YEAR WE HAVE BEEN PUSHED NOT ONLY BY OUR BOARD BUT RECOGNIZING THAT ONE NEEDS TO DESCRIBE IMPACT IN A MANNER THAT IS RELEVANT, RIGHT, TO CONSUMERS, TO STAKEHOLDERS AND, OF COURSE, TO THE PUBLIC AT LARGE.

AS MUCH AS I LOVE AN MMBTU OR MEGAWATT HOUR, MAYBE WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THE IMPACTS THAT WE ARE HAVING IN A MANNER THAT IS REFLECTIVE OF THE CONSUMERS THAT ARE BENEFITING FROM THEM SO THAT'S WHY WE TALK ABOUT JOBS, THAT'S WHY WE TALK ABOUT DOLLARS SAVED ON A HOT DAY IN JUNE.

THAT'S WHY WE TALK ABOUT HOW MANY HOMEOWNERS WE ARE REACHING WITH OUR CLEAN ENERGY HUBS.

THEY'RE GREAT EXAMPLES OF PUTTING INTO PRACTICE OUR WORK IN A WAY THAT IS MORE RELATABLE AND I THINK FOR US AS AN ORGANIZATION, IT'S REFLECTIVE NOT ONLY OF IMPACT WE ARE HAVING BUT BUT THE GROWTH WE HAVE HAD AS AN ORGANIZATION, YOU KNOW, RECOGNIZING OUR ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE IN A MORE COMPREHENSIVE BUT RELATABLE MANNER.

>> IS THAT A BRITISH THERMAL UNIT REFERENCE TOSSED IN THERE.

>> YOU GOT A CHEMICAL ENGINEER HERE, YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO GET THOSE.

>> WELL, PRESIDENT HOME CARE THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> FINALLY WE ARE CHECKING IN ON EFFORTS TO REDUCE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS IN NEW YORK AND ACROSS THE REGION AND OUR GUEST IS JOHN JON BINDER FORMER STATE ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICIAL WHO IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE MODEL CLIMATE LAWS INITIATIVE.

JON, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

A PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> THIS SUMMER, STATE ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENTAL OFFICIALS ANNOUNCED AN UPDATE TO THEIR REGIONAL GREENHOUSE INITIATIVE KNOWN COMMONLY AS RGGI, DESIGNED TO CAP GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS EMISSIONS FROM THE ELECTRICITY SECTOR.

BEFORE WE GET INTO THE TIGHTER RULES, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THEIR TRACK RECORD OVER THE LAST TWO DECADES NOW.

>> AS YOU SAY, THIS HAS BEEN A PROGRAM THAT HAS BEEN IN PLACE FOR ABOUT TWO DECADES NOW AND IT WAS THE FIRST MANDATORY PROGRAM IN THE COUNTRY FOR CAP AND INVEST.

SO IT HELPS-- IT HAS A RECORD OF REDUCERRING EMISSIONS AND GENERAL RATING SAVINGS FOR HOUSEHOLDS AND I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE AMAZING PARTS IS THAT IT HAS BEEN ABLE TO DO BOTH, SHOW THAT WE CAN MAKE PROGRESS ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND SEE AFFORDABILITY PROGRESS FOR HOUSEHOLDS AND THEN I THINK THE OTHER THING TO KEEP IN MIND IS JUST HOW IT HAS BEEN WORKING FOR SO LONG IN THE BACKGROUND.

SOMETIMES PEOPLE FORGET IT'S THERE BUT IT HAS BEEN DOING SO MUCH OF THIS WORK ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS ACROSS THOSE 11 STATES AND NO MATTER WHAT IS HAPPENING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, RGGI HAS BEEN STAYING AND DOING ITS WORK.

>> WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS LATEST UPDATE TO THE PROGRAM?

WHAT IS THE AGREEMENT AMONG THE STATES AND WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE POTENTIAL IMPACT OF IT?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE HALLMARKS OF RGGI HAD BEEN HABITS COMMITMENT TO CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENT, A PROGRAM REVIEW PROCESS.

THE CHANGES YOU ARE REFERRING TO CAME OUT OF THE THIRD PROGRAM REVIEW, SO THAT MEANS THE STATES HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND SAID THIS PROGRAM IS GREAT.

HOW CAN WE MAKE IT EVEN BETTER?

THAT'S WHAT THEY DID.

LAST YEAR, AND CAME TO AN AGREEMENT WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO EXTEND THE PROGRAM ALL THE WAY OUT, REDUCING EMISSIONS THROUGH 2037, EMISSIONS WILL CONTINUE TO GO DOWN.

THAT'S THE CAP.

AT THE SAME TIME THE PROGRAM HAS BUILT IN ADDITIONAL AFFORDABILITY PROTECTIONS SO A PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE, A CIRCUIT BREAKER SO THAT IF DEMAND FOR ALLOWANCES, THE DEMAND FOR EMISSIONS, RIGHT, IS THAT IS HIGHER THAN EXPECTEDDED THERE IS THE ABILITY TO CONTROL FOR COSTS.

AND SO THIS IS A REALLY GOOD WAY FOR THE STATES TO SHOW THEY'RE STILL COMMITTED LONG-TERM TO CONTINUING TO REDUCE EMISSIONS AND AT THE SAME TIME HAVE THAT COMMITMENT TO AFFORDABILITY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT COST SIDE OF THEY EQUATION BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE TO SOME OBSERVERS THERE WAS A HIGHER THAN EXPECTED COST WITH THIS LATEST ROUND.

SO WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE PRES AND CONS OF THIS, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT MAYBE WE ARE ADDING TO THE OVERALL COST IN A WAY THAT OTHER STATES AREN'T AND OTHER STATES MIGHT BE GETTING ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS JUST FROM ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROJECTS AND OTHER GREEN INITIATIVES THEY MIGHT BE CHAMPIONING ON THEIR OWN THAT DON'T COME WITH THIS TYPE OF PRICE TAG.

>> THE BENEFITS YOU ARE REFERRING TO COME FROM RGGI.

ENERGY EFFICIENCY SAVINGS, INVESTMENTS IN RUCIAL NATURAL GAS, THOSE THINS ARE FUNDED BY THE RGGI PROGRAM.

THE PRICE YOU ARE REFERRING TO IS COMING FROM THE POLLUTERS.

THE POLLUTERS AND POWER PLANTS EMITTING CARBON DIOXIDE GREENHOUSE GAS POLLUTANTS AND THEN UTILIZED TO REINVEST INTO THE SYSTEM AND THAT CREST EIGHTS-- CREATES THE BENEFITS TO SAVED HOUSEHOLD MONEY.

WE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE BENEFITS THE PROGRAM IS PROVIDING AND THE COST OF THE PROGRAM IN TERMS OF THE COST OF ALLOWANCES IS NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE ACTUAL COST OF THE GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ARE IN TERMS OF THEIR IMPACT ON THE CLIMATE.

AND SO I THINK WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE THIS PROGRAM DRIVE EMISSIONS DOWN BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, CONTINUE TO DRIVE THOSE INVESTMENTS AND THEN I THINK THE LAST POINT TO KEEP IN MIND IS HOW THE MARKET IS INTENDED TO WORK THIS WAY.

THE PRICES ARE GOING TO FLUCTUATE.

IT IS A MARKET-BASED PROGRAM SO SUPPLY AND DEMAND DICTATES THE PRICE OF THAT ALLOWANCE, NOT THE STATE AND SO THAT IS ABLE TO FLUCTUATE DEPENDING ON VARIOUS FACTORS HOW HOT IT IS OR HOW MUCH POWER IS UTILIZED ON THE GRID AND THAT'S HOW IT IS DESIGNED TO WORK.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE SOCIETAL HEALTH BENEFITS OF SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IN THE TWO DECADES THAT THIS HAS BEEN UP AND RUNNING, IS IT THE CASE THAT WE HAVE ALREADY REALIZED SOME OF THE BENEFITS OR IS SOME SOMING WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BENEFITS DOWN THE ROAD AND WE MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY HAVE EXPERIENCED THEM YET.

>> IT'S BOTH, RIGHT.

OVER THE COURSE OF TWO DECADES, THE EMISSIONS HAVE GONE DOWN ABOUT HALF FROM POWER PLANTS ACROSS THE RGGI REGION THANKS TO THIS PROGRAM.

AND THAT HAS RESULTED IN A HUGE AMOUNT OF PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS IN TERMS OF SAVINGS ON IMPACTS TO HOSPITAL VISITS AND PREMATURE DEATHS AND THINGS LIKE THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE LESS AIR POLLUTION.

THAT'S BENEFITING PEOPLE.

GOING FORWARD WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO GET FURTHER EMISSION REDUCTIONS BY 2037 WE WILL BE ABOUT 90% BELOW WHERE WE ARE NOW IN TERMS OF EMISSIONS FROM THIS PROGRAM SO THAT WILL HAVE ADDITIONAL PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS.

THAT'S IN ADDITION TO ALL THOSE INVESTMENTS THAT WILL HAVE ADDITIONAL BENEFITS IN TERMS OF GETTING MORE PEOPLE HEAT PUMPS AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND WEATHERIZATION OF THEIR HOMES WHICH WILL HAVE THEM SAVE ON THEIR ENERGY BILLS AS WELL.

FEELING THOSE IMPACTS RIGHT NOW AND THAT'S PARTICULARLY IMPORTANT.

>> YOU MENTION THE IDEA OF A PRESSURE VALVE RELIEF IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, BREAK GLASS.

I'LL DEEP THE METAPHOR GOING AS LONG AS WE HAVE TIME.

WHERE DOES THAT COME INTO PLAY AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN PART OF THE EQUATION IN THE PAST OR IS THERE SOMETHING UNIQUE ABOUT THE ENERGY LANDSCAPE NOW THAT WARRANTS THAT TYPE OF POTENTIAL FOR RELIEF?

>> SO THIS IS SOMETHING IN THE PROGRAM CALLED THE COST CONTAINMENT RESERVE OR CCR, THE CONCEPT THAT IF PRICES REACH A CERTAIN LEVEL WE WILL PUT ADDITIONAL SUPPLY OF ALLOWANCES IN THE SYSTEM.

BY HAVING MORE SUPPLY, THE PRICE WILL GO DOWN.

WHAT THE STATES HAVE DONE WITH THIS MOST RECENT UPDATE IS THEY ARE AGREEING TO A SECOND PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE.

SO WHATEVER YOUR METAPHOR HERE IS, YOU BREAK THE GLASS, MAYBE YOU BREAK THE GLASS A SECOND TIME.

THE IDEA IS THAT WE HAVE A GOOD SENSE WHERE THE ENERGY MARKET IS GOING BUT WE DON'T HAVE A PERFECT SENSE AND WE CAN'T PREDICT WHERE THE PRICE MAY BE.

THERE ARE LOTS OF THINGS HAPPENING OUT THERE WHETHER THAT'S ALL THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S DECISIONS OR POOR DECISIONS THEY ARE MAKING THAT MIGHT BE IMPACTING THE POWER SECTOR WHETHER THAT'S WHAT IS HAPPENING IN IRAN AND HOW THAT IMPACTS FOSSIL FUEL IN THE UNITED STATES.

ALL OF THOSE THINGS HAVE IMPACT SO WE CAN'T PERFECTLY PREDICT AND THAT'S WHY THERE HAS BEEN THIS IDEA OF HAVING A COST CONTAIN MANY RESERVE AND A SECOND ONE TO MAKE SURE THE STATES ARE PREPARED FOR ANY OUTCOME BUT AT THE SAME TIME, EMISSIONS WILL CONTINUE TO GO DOWN AND THE STATES WILL CONTINUE TO GENERATE REVENUE FROM THOSE POLLUTERS TO CONTINUE TO INVEST IN THESE KINDS OF GREAT PROGRAMS.

>> AND IN TERMS OF THIS EXPERIENCE, WITH JUST THE ELECTRICITY SECTOR AND THE BROADER ECONOMY, WHICH IS THE IDEA OF A CAP AND INVEST PROGRAM FOR NEW YORK, WHAT SORT OF ROAD MAP CAN THE RGGI EXPERIENCE PROVIDE FOR NEW YORK POLICYMAKERS IF AND WHEN THEY EVER GET THINGS UP AND RUNNING THEY'RE?

OR IS IT AN APPLES AND ORANGES SITUATION AND WE ARE ONLY TALKING ABOUT THE ELECTRICITY SECTOR WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RGGI MAKES IT A UNIQUE CASE AND WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT A BROADER ECONOMY WIDE CAP SYSTEM AS SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

>> WELL, I THINK THAT RGGI HAS SHOWN HOW SUCCESSFUL A CAP AND INVEST PROGRAM CAN BE, HOW IT'S NOT TRUE THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN AFFORDABILITY AND CLIMATE ACTION.

HOW IT'S A FALSE CHOICE TO PRESENT THOSE AS IN COMPETITION WITH EACH OTHER.

HOW WE CAN BOTH REDUCE EMISSIONS AND SAVE MONEY FOR HOUSEHOLDS AND WHAT WE WOULD DO ON AN ECONOMY WIDE BASE FIST WE HAD A NEW YORK CAP AND INVEST PROGRAM OR CLEAN AIR INITIATIVE FOR ALL SOURCES OF GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS WE WOULD BE ABLE TO EXPAND ALL OF THESE BEN FRISTS.

RGGI HAS GENERATED $3.5 BILLION JUST FOR THE STATE OF NEW YORK TO INVEST IN ALL OF THESE AFFORDABILITY AND RENEWABLE ENERGY AND ENERGY EFFICIENCY THINGS.

AND WE COULD GENERATE BILLIONS OF MORE DOLLARS FROM THE POLLUTERS PAYING FOR THIS AND WE WOULD BE HAVING MORE BENEFITS AND SAVINGS AND PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFITS FOR HOUSE HOLES.

SO, YES, IT IS OVER DUE AND I HOPE THE STATE DOESN'T MOVE FORWARD-- THE STATE DOES MOVE FORWARD EVEN IF IT IS ON A DELAYED TIMEFRAME AFTER THE BUDGET.

>> NERMS OF WHERE THE DOLLARS FOR INVESTING WOULD COME FROM THE STATE CAP AND INVEST PROGRAM , YOU TALKED ABOUT IT COMING FROM THE POLLUTERS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> I DON'T IMAGINE THEY'RE GOING TO DIG INTO THEIR OWN POCKETS OUT OF THEIR OWN CHARITABLE NATURE.

SO IS THERE SOMETHING ABOUT THE WAY A SYSTEM LIKE THIS IS CONSTRUCTED?

THAT COULD GUARANTEE THE COST DOESN'T GET BORN BY RATEPAYERS OR BUSINESSES OR MUNICIPALITIES?

OR IS ULTIMATELY THAT GOING TO BE A COST THAT TRICKLES DOWN AND IT'S THE CASE THAT, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, THE BENEFITS OF HOW IT MIGHT BE INVESTED, THE ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS OF REDUCED EMISSIONS MAKE THE ALL WORTHWHILE?

>> WELL, IT'S CERTAINLY ALL WORTHWHILE BUT IT'S ALSO THE CASE THAT MOST OF THE POLLUTERS, MAY NOT DO IT OUT OF THE GRACEFULNESS OF THEIR HEARTS BUT BECAUSE IT IS A LEGAL REQUIREMENT.

THEY WILL HAVE TO PURCHASE THE THE ALLOWANCES TO COVER EMISSIONS AND MOST HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THAT.

IN TERMS OF IT AFFECTING HOUSEHOLDS, THAT'S WHY THE PROGRAM WOULD BE DESIGNED IN SUCH A WAY TO CONTINUE TO INVEST IN THINGS THAT WILL ACTUALLY SAVE HOUSEHOLDS.

SO PEOPLE WILL SAVE MONEY ON THEIR ELECTRICITY BILLS AND ON THEIR GAS BILLS ONCE THE BENEFITS OF THIS PROGRAM ARE UP AND RUBBING-- RUNNING AND THE PROGRAM IS DESIGNED TO HAVE DIRECT PAYMENT BACK TO THE HOUSEHOLDS SO SOME OF THE MONEY COMING IN THAT WOULD GO DIRECTLY BACK TO THE HOUSEHOLDS IN A FORM OF A CREDIT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, REBATES.

>> IS THAT AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT SOME THINGS MIGHT BECOME MORE EXPENSIVE.

YOU MIGHT PAY MORE PEE AT THE PUMP UNDER THIS MODEL AND THERE IS A RECOGNITION THAT WE NEED TO PROVIDE RELIEF TO THE LOWER END INCOME SCALE?

>> I THINK IT'S AN AC ACKNOWLEDGMENT THAT THERE COULD BE IMPACTS FROM THE PROGRAM BUT LONG-TERM IT'S GOING TO HAVE A HUGE AMOUNT OF BENEFITS FOR EVERYBODY AND THE WAY TO PRESERVE AND ENSURE WE DON'T HAVE OUTSIZED IMPACTS ON HOUSEHOLDS, PARTICULARLY LOW AND MODERATE INCOME HOUSEHOLDS.

THE STATE'S OWN PROJECTIONS SHOW THIS WOULD HAVE A HUGE MAJORITY OF BENEFITS.

THEY WOULD COME OUT AHEAD AND SO I HOPE THAT THE PROGRAM DOES GET UP AND RUNNING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

BECAUSE AGAIN, IT IS OVERDUE.

>> WHAT ABOUT THOSE PROJECTIONS THAT WERE QUOTE UNQUOTE LEAKED BY HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION EARLIER THIS YEAR THAT PAINTED A VERY BLEAK PICTURE OF A PROGRAM THAT THE ADMINISTRATION JUST A FEW MONTHS EARLIER HAD BEEN CHAMPIONING.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE WAY THAT THESE LAID OUT THOSE NUMBERS THAT YOU THINK IS NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE WAY A HOLISTIC PROGRAM COULD ACTUALLY BE ROLLED OUT AND MIGHT NOT NECESSARILY HAVE THOSE ECONOMIC FALLOUT THAT THEY WERE PREDICTING?

>> WELL, WITHOUT NECESSARILY RELITIGATING THE EMPHASIS MEMO AS SOME FOLKS REFER TO THAT, I THINK THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, IT WAS UNFORTUNATE ABOUT THE MEMO IT WAS PRESENTING AGAIN, THIS FALSE CHOICE BETWEEN AFFORDABILITY AND CLIMATE ACTION AND I THINK AGAIN, THE REALITY IS THAT WE CAN DO BOTH.

RGGI HAS PROVEN WE CAN DO BOTH AND WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO BOTH ON A BROADER SCALE IF WE WERE DOING CAP AND INVEST ACROSS THE BOARD.

WHAT THE MEMO DID WAS PROJECTED A VERSION OF THE PROGRAM THAT WAS NEVER GOING TO BE ADOPTED BY THE STATE AND NEVER A PLAN FOR THE STATE TO DON'T IT SO IT EXAGGERATED WHAT THE NEAR TERM IMPACTS WOULD BE WITHOUT TAKING FULL ACCOUNT OF WHAT THE BENEFITS WOULD BE FROM THE REINVESTMENTS THAT I WAS REFERRING TO EARLIER.

>> I WANT TO COME BACK TO SOMETHING YOU ALLUDED TO EARLIER, WHICH IS THAT STATES LIKE NEW YORK AND SAY THE OTHER RGGI PARTNERS THAT ARE INTERESTED IN REDUCING THEIR GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS, OVERALL CARBON FOOTPRINT ARE ON THEIR OWN RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO WORK YOU ARE DOING, WHICH IS TRYING TO HELP STATES WHO ARE INTERESTED IN NAVIGATING THIS SORT OF UNCHARTED TERRAIN WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE EXPERTISE THAT YOU ARE LOOKING TO PROVIDE AND THE GUIDANCE YOU ARE LOOKING TO PROVIDE TO STATES?

>> I WORK ON A PROJECT CALLED THE MODEL CLIMATE LAWS INITIATIVE THAT IS A JOINT PROJECT OF ENVIRONMENTAL ADVOCATES NEW YORK AND COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL AND WE'RE ABOUT PROVIDING RESOURCES TO STATES WE KNOW THAT STATE LEVEL LEGISLATURES, THERE ARE OFTEN LAWMAKERS THAT WANT TO DO THIS TYPE OF CLIMATE WORK ESPECIALLY NOW IN THE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION WHERE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS NOT TAKING ANY ACTION ON CLIMB.

THEY NEED ASSISTANCE WITH BILL DRAFTING, THEY NEED LEGAL ANALYSIS AND SUPPORT AND THAT'S WHAT WE PROVIDE WITH THE MODEL CLIMATE LAWS INITIATIVE PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE-- I DID WORK WITH NEW YORK STATE FOR A LONG TIME AND I KNOW THE POWER AND INFLUENCE STATES CAN HAVE ON CLIMATE CHANGE WHETHER THAT'S THROUGH A PROGRAM LIKE RGGI OR OTHER PROGRAMS TO REDUCE EMISSION AND HOW IT CAN BE REPLICATED BY OTHER STATES ESPECIALLY WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING BACK AND FORDS.

WE KNOW THE STATES CAN CONTINUE TO MOVE FORWARD AND THAT'S WAS WE DO WITH THE MODEL CLIMATE LAW NISHS WE PROVIDE THE RESOURCES TO LAWMAKERS AND STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> WHAT ARE THE STATES THAT YOU ENVISION HELPING?

ARE THEY STATES LIKE NEW YORK THAT THEORETICALLY HAVE A ROBUST COLLECTION OF STATE HEALTH AND ENVIRONMENT AND ENERGY OFFICIALS WHO SHOULD BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE THIS?

OR ARE YOU THINKING ABOUT SMALLER STATES THAT MIGHT NOT HAVE THE EXPERTISE IN-HOUSE?

>> I THINK IT'S BOTH.

I THINK A STATE LIKE NEW YORK HAS LOTS OF EXPERTS THAT WORK IN THE LEGISLATURE AND IN THE AGENCIES THAT ARE CAPABLE OF IMPLEMENTING THIS LAWS.

OTHER STATES, SMALLER STATES MAY NOT HAVE THE SAME STAFF AND PART TIME LEGISLATURE THAT DON'T WORK FULL TIME LIKE OUR FRIENDS IN ALBANY DO.

THOUGH THOSE FOLKS OFTEN NEED ADDITIONAL RESOURCES AND IT'S NOT A QUESTION OF THEIR COMMITMENT.

POLITICAL WILL TO HAVE THESE POTENTIALLY TOUGH CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE NEW YORK THEORETICALLY HAS EVERYBODY WHO COULD ROLL OUT THE CAP AND INVEST SYSTEM BUT THERE WAS A CALCULATION IN AN ELECTION YEAR THAT NO, WOULD I RATHER HIT PAUSE BECAUSE THE NARRATIVE IS SCARY AND NOT ONE THAT I WANT TO WADE INTO RIGHT NOW IF I'M THE GOVERNOR.

>> WELL, MISCALCULATION BASED ON AN UNFORTUNATE NARRATIVE.

BUT IN ANY CASE THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS WE NEED BOTH, RIGHT?

WE NEED THE POLICY EXPERTISE AND THE TECHNICAL LEGAL EXPERTISE AND ASSISTANCE FOR FOLKS.

WE ALSO NEED THE POLITICAL COMMITMENT.

WE NEED THE PLIGHT COMMITMENT TO PASS THE LAWS AT THE STATE LEVEL BUT JUST AS IMPORTANTLY AS WE HAVE SOMETIMES SEEN IN STATES LIKE NEW YORK, WE NEED THE POLITICAL COMMITMENT TO FOLLOW THROUGH.

IT'S GREAT TO PASS LAWS BUT IT'S EVEN MORE GREAT TO SEE THE LAW IMPLEMENTED AND BECOME EFFECTIVE WHICH REQUIRES CONTINUED POLITICAL COMMITMENT AND FOLLOW THROUGH AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL CONTINUE HERE IN NEW YORK AND IN OTHER STATES AS WELL.

>> WAS IT A TOUGH DECISION FOR YOU TO LEAVE THE STATE OR BASED ON THE WAY THINGS WERE TREND CAN, WHICH WAS KIND OF A DIFFERENT DIRECTION FROM SAY 2019 WHEN NEW YORK WAS PASSING THE MOST AMBITIOUS CLIMATE LEADERSHIP LANGUAGE IN THE COUNTRY, THAT MAYBE MADE YOU WANT TO LOOK FOR NEW OPPORTUNITIES.

>> IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT DECISION TO LEAVE THE STATE BECAUSE THE DEC WHERE I WORKED FOR 17 PLUS YEARS IS A PLACE WHERE THERE ARE TONS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING AMAZING WORK.

THEY'RE COMMITTED TO PROTECTING THE ENVIRONMENT.

I HAVE LOTS OF FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES THERE AND REALLY BELIEVE IN THE MISSION AS I DID AND AS I DO.

IT WAS VERY DIFFICULT TO LEAVE MUCH AT THE SAME TIME THIS OPPORTUNITY TO DO THE SAME KIND OF WORK IN OTHER STATES AND TRY TO ADVANCE PROGRESS NOT JUST HERE IN NEW YORK BUT CLIMATE ACTION IN STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND KIND OF FURTHER SHOW THE POWER OF STATES WHEN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS GOING IN THE WRONG DIRECTION, WAS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY.

SO, BUT OF COURSE I MISS ALL MY COLLEAGUES AT DEC AND I KNOW THEY'RE DOING GREAT WORK.

>> JON THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE THIS MONTH.

MY THANKS TO ALL OUR GUESTS FOR SHARING THEIR STUDIO WITH US.

FOR DAILY STATE GOVERNMENT COVERAGE, CHECKS OUT "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM" WHERE EVER DOWNLOAD PODCASTS.

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I'M DAVID LOMBARDO.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.