JOINING ME IN THE CENTER RING IS THE AUTHOR OF THE NEW BOOK "THE HIGHEST CALLING" CONVERSATIONS OF THE PRESIDENCY.

Y IS THE CO-FOUNDER OF THE CARLISLE GROUP AND A FAMILIAR FACE FOR PBS VIEWERS AS THE HOST OF HISTORY WITH DAVID RUBENSTEIN.

WELCOME, DAVID, TO BALANCING ACT.

SO GLAD TO HAVE YOU.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> YOU KNOW, DAVID, I HAVE TO SAY PRELIMINARILY, THROUGH MY EIGHT YEARS IN CONGRESS, ONE OF THE GREAT PLEASURES I HAD WAS YOUR CONGRESSIONAL DIALOGUE SERIES WHERE YOU BROUGHT REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE TOGETHER AT THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS EVERY SIX WEEKS TO TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT AUTHORS AND DIFFERENT BOOKS.

I HAVE TO ASK YOU, WHAT WAS THE IMPETUS IN DOING THAT AND SPONSORING THAT?

>> I I AM THE CHAIR OF THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS SUPPORT BOARD SO I WORK WITH THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS AND I THOUGHT IF WE COULD BRING REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT THE PRESS WAS NOT THERE WHERE THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO PLAY TO THE AUDIENCE, THEY MIGHT BE FRIENDLIER TO EACH OTHER AND THAT MIGHT BE A GOOD THING FOR THE COUNTRY.

SECONDLY, THEY MAKE THE LAWS OF THE COUNTRY AND THEY SHOULD KNOW THE HISTORY OF THE HISTORY.

I TENDED TO EMPHASIZE BRINGING SOMEONE TO LEARN ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.

MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WOULD CALM, MAYBE A COUPLE HIN DREAD EACH TIME BECAUSE THERE WAS NO PRESS THERE, THEY DON'T HAVE TO SIT WITH PEOPLE FROM THEIR OWN PARTY AND SADLY THEY DON'T KNOW PEOPLE FROM THE OTHER HOUSE OR OTHER PARTY ANYMORE BECAUSE FRATERNIZING FROM PEOPLE IN THE OTHER PARTY IS NOT LIKED IN WASHINGTON ANYMORE AND YOU DON'T HAVE VERY MANY CONFERENCE COMMITTEES BECAUSE THERE IS NO LEGISLATION VERY MUCH ANYMORE SO YOU DON'T GET TO KNOW PEOPLE FROM THE OTHER HOUSE AND THERE ARE NOT A LOT OF PLACES WHERE PEOPLE TRAVEL TOGETHER.

IT HAS WORKED OUT WELL AND YOU CAN GET TO THE LIBRARY OF CONGRESS FROM UNDERGROUND PASSAGES AND YOU DON'T HAVE TO GO OUTSIDE TO GET THERE.

IT WORKED OUT.

WE HAVE DONE ONE EVERY SIX WEEKS THE LAST 10 YEARS.

WE HAVE ANOTHER COUPLE SCHEDULED BEFORE CONGRESS LEAVES THE ENDS OF THE YEAR.

>> THEY WERE FANTASTIC AND I THINK YOUR IDEA OF BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER WORKED BECAUSE WE ALWAYS HAD GREAT CONVERSATIONS DURING THOSE DINNERS.

WE THANK YOU FOR THAT.

AND OF COURSE DURING THOSE DINNERS WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT PRESIDENTS AND A LOT ABOUT BOOKS WRITTEN ABOUT PRESIDENTS AND HERE WE ARE WITH ANOTHER BOOK OF YOURS ABOUT PRESIDENTS.

WHAT ABOUT THIS BOOK, YOU KNOW, WHAT MAKES IT UNIQUE OR DIFFERENT FROM THE BOOKS THAT HAVE COME BEFORE IT?

>> THERE IS NO DOUBT THOUSANDS OF BOOKS ON THE PRESIDENCY AND I CAN'T SAY THAT I HAVE WRITTEN A BOOK THAT EVERYBODY SHOULD DROP OTHERS ONES AND READ THIS ONE.

THIS IS MY OWN EXPERIENCE.

I WORKED IN THE WHITE HOUSE FOR A PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT CARTER, AND I INTERVIEWED OTHER LIVING PRESIDENTS, MANY OF THEM AND I INTERVIEWED SCHOLARS ABOUT OTHER PRESIDENTS WHO ARE NO LONGER ALIVE AND IT WAS JUST MY DISTILLATION OF WHAT I THOUGHT ABOUT THOSE PRESIDENTS AND WHY I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT AND I CALLED THE BOOK "THE HIGHEST CALLING" BECAUSE THE TRUTH IS, IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT JOB IN THE WORLD AT THIS POINT AND HAS BEEN THAT WAY SINCE WOODROW WILSON WAS PRESIDENT OF UNITED STATES AND WENT OVER TO PARIS TO RESOLVE WORLD WAR I.

THE PRESIDENT IS CHEERLY PEOPLE IN CHINA MAY DISAGREE, BUT CERTAINLY IN THE WESTERN WORLD, THERE IS NO MORE IMPORTANT JOB THAN BEING PRESIDENT AND I THINK AMERICANS SHOULD LEARN ABOUT THEIR PRESIDENT BECAUSE THAT PERSON IS GOING TO AFFECT THEIR LIVES A GREAT DEAL AND I HOPE PEOPLE WILL VOTE AFTER THEY LEARN ABOUT PRESIDENTS.

I TRY TO POINT OUT IN THE BOOK, 160 MILLION PEOPLE VOTED THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION BUT 80 MILLION ELIGIBLE TO VOTE DID NOT.

AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET MORE PEOPLE TO VOTE TO MAKE DEMOCRACY STRONGER WHEN PEOPLE VOTE.

>> I TOTALLY AGREE.

AND YOU KNOW, I'M SUCH A STUDENT OF PRESIDENTS AND PRESIDENTIAL HISTORY AND I LOVE READING BIOGRAPHIES OF PRESIDENTS.

THIS BOOK WAS WRITTEN-- THIS BOOK IS RIGHT UP MY ALLEY.

WHAT MAKES A GREAT PRESIDENT, THE CHARACTERISTICS OR QUALITIES THAT MAKE THEM GREAT?

>> A PERSON TYPICALLY WE REGARD PILOTS AS BEING SUCCESSFUL AND GREAT IF THEY HAVE GOTTEN RE-ELECTED.

WE HAVE HAD PRESIDENTS WHO ARE CONSIDERED PRETTY GOOD THAT DIDN'T GET RE-ELECTED BUT GENERALLY ABLE TO COMMAND ENOUGH POPULAR SUPPORT SO THAT THEY ONLY GOT ELECTED ONCE BUT TWICE IS A GOOD SIGN OF BEING A GOOD PRESIDENT.

A GREAT PRESIDENT.

BUT ALSO SOMEBODY WHO ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING, WHO ACTUALLY DID SOMETHING AND DID SO IN A WAY THAT MAKES AMERICAN PEOPLE PROUD.

I THINK SOMEBODY WHO IS A ROLE MODEL FOR OTHER PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD AND ALSO IN THE UNITED STATES IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE WANT AS WELL.

SADLY WE DON'T GET MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE, I WOULD SAY, THE BEST IN SOCIETY SOMETIMES, TO TAKE THIS JOB.

WHEN THE COUNTRY WAS STARTED, WE ONLY HAD THREE MILLION PEOPLE BUT OUT OF THAT THREE MILLION PEOPLE, ONLY ABOUT 400,000 WERE ELIGIBLE TO BE IN GOVERNMENT BECAUSE OF STRICT CONCERNS ABOUT WOMEN VOTING OR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T HAVE PROPERTY VOTING AND OF COURSE THERE WERE SLAVES AS WELL.

BUT OUT OF 450,000 PEOPLE.

WE GOT GEORGE WASHINGTON, JOHN ADAMS, THOMAS JEFFERSON AND JAMES MADISON AMONG OTHERS.

NOW WE HAVE 330 MILLION PEOPLE AND SOMETIMES YOU DON'T HAVE THE QUALITY OF THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE WITH SUCH A SMALL POPULATION AT THE TIME.

HOW DID THAT HAPPEN?

IT HAPPENED BECAUSE MANY OF THE BEST PEOPLE IN SOCIETY CHOOSE NOT TO GO INTO POLITICS ANYMORE.

WE DON'T REALLY HAVE CITIZEN STATESMEN AS MUCH WHO GIVE EVERYTHING UP, LEAVING A BUSINESS, FOUNDATION OR UNIVERSITY AND RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

WE DON'T GET THAT ANYMORE.

WE GET A NARROW SET OF PEOPLE, POLITICIANS TYPICALLY AND OFTEN THEY'RE FLAWED IN SOME WAYS.

>> SO YOU INTERVIEWED FOUR OUT OF THE SIX PAST PRESIDENTS THAT ARE STILL ALIVE.

ANYTHING ABOUT THOSE INTERVIEWS THAT REALLY JUMPED OUT TO YOU AND YOU FOUND INTERESTING?

>> WELL, WHEN I INTERVIEWED JOE BIDEN ALONE FOR AN HOUR IN THE OVAL OFFICE, HE WAS STILL THOUGHT TO BE THE LIKELY NOMINEE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, SO I HAVE KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME AND I THOUGHT HE DID OKAY IN THE INTERVIEW.

ALL THE CONCERNS THAT PEOPLE HAD ABOUT HIM, I DIDN'T SEE IT IN THAT INTERVIEW.

BUT DONALD TRUMP IS SOMEBODY THAT I'VE KNOWN FOR A WHILE AS WELL.

HE GAVE ME AN INTERVIEW RIGHT BEFORE TRIAL ONE MORNING AND I THINK HE IS WHAT HE IS.

WE ALL KNOW HIS STYLE OF SPEAKING IS DIFFERENT THAN THE STYLE OF SPEAKING OF SOME OTHER PRESIDENTS BUT HE CLEARLY IS AN IMPRESSIVE POLITICAL FIGURE.

HE HAS BEEN NOMINATED THREE STRAIGHT TIMES FOR FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

NOBODY EMPTION HAS EVER DONE THAT.

>> I LOVE ASKING THIS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HISTORY JUNKIES LIKE ME AND IF YOU GO BACK TO, OF ALL THE PRESIDENTS, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE HIGHLY KNOWLEDGEABLE ON THEM, WHO IS YOUR FAVORITE ONE AND WHY?

>> THERE IS NO DOUBT THE GREATEST PRESIDENT OF ALL TIME WITHOUT ANY DOUBT IS ABRAHAM LINCOLN.

HE HELD THE COUNTRY TOGETHER WHEN A LARGE SEGMENT OF THE POPULATION IN THE NORTH WAS WILLING TO SET LET THE SOUTH GO AWAY.

HE HELD THE COUNTRY TOGETHER.

WE ARE ALL BETTER OF FOR THAT.

FREED THE SLAVES ULTIMATELY.

HAD HE LIVED RECONSTRUCTION WOULD HAVE WORKED BETTER BUT HE DID IT WITH HUMILITY.

HE DIDN'T GO AROUND THE WHITE HOUSE SAYING I JUST WON THE CIVIL WAR OR THE BATTLE OF GETTYSBURG.

HE HAD A SENSE OF COMPASSION FOR PEOPLE AND HE WAS ARTICULATE.

HE WROTE THE GETTYSBURG ADDRESS WITH NO SPEECH RIGHT WRITER.

272 WORDS THAT IS THE BEST EXPLANATION OF WHAT THIS COUNTRY IS ALL ABOUT.

HUMBLE, SMART, GOOD TALKER, ALSO A PERSON THAT WON THE CIVIL WAR.

>> I COULDN'T AGREE WITH YOU MORE.

HE WAS TERRIFIC.

LOOKING FORWARD WHAT DO YOU HOPE HAPPENS TO OUR COUNTRY?

THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH DIVISIVENESS AND SO MUCH VITRIOL AND WE ARE JUST FINISHING UP WITH A VERY HIGHLY CONTESTED CAMPAIGN.

WE HAVE A NEW PERSON COMING INTO THE WHITE HOUSE.

SO WHAT DO YOU HOPE FOR MOVING FORWARD TO HELP OUR COUNTRY, MAYBE GET BACK ON TRACK?

I THINK IF EVERYONE READ MORE ABOUT OUR HISTORY WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF BUT I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU THIS I?

>> I THINK THE COUNTRY HAS SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE ON SO MANY ISSUES AND IT WOULD TAKE SOMEBODY WHO CAN BRING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER TO HELP THE COUNTRY IN MANY WAYS.

RIGHT NOW EVEN, LIKE RIGHT NOW THE HOUSE IS RUN BY THE REPUBLICANS, BUT THEY ONLY HAVE A TWO-SEAT MAJORITY AND WITH THAT MAJORITY THEY ACT AS IF THEY HAVE A 50 SEAT MAJORITY.

THE SAME WITH THE DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE.

THEY HAVE A ONE SEAT MAJORITY BUT THEY ACT AS IF THEY HAVE A MUCH LARGER MAJORITY.

I WISH PEOPLE WOULD GOVERN WITH MORE COMPASSION FOR THE OTHER SIDE AND UNDERSTANDING THE OTHER SIDE'S ISSUES.

RIGHT NOW THE COUNTRY, I THINK WE WOULD BE BETTER OFF IF WE COULD HAVE MORE BIPARTISANSHIP.

BIPARTISANSHIP IS A WORD THAT ISN'T USED VERY MUCH ANYMORE.

AND IF YOU ARE CONSIDERED BIPARTISAN BY YOUR POLITICAL PARTY YOU ARE NOT CONSIDERED A STRONG LEADER IN YOUR OWN PARTY SO BIPARTISANSHIP WOULD BE GREAT TO BRING IT BACK.

>> WHEN I WAS IN CONGRESS, I HEADED UP THE MODERATE RING OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS FROM CONSERVATIVE DISTRICTS WANTED TO JOIN IT BECAUSE THEY BELIEVED IN IT BUT THEY WERE CONCERNED IF THEY JOINED IT, THEY MIGHT GET A PRIMARY BACK HOME AND SO THERE IS ALWAYS CONCERN ABOUT GETTING RE-ELECTED.

AND TO ME, ONE OF THE REASONS I LEFT AFTER EIGHT YEARS WAS THAT I BELIEVE IN TERM LIMITS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT TERM LIMITS AND HOW THAT WOULD IMPACT THINGS?

>> WHEN THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION WERE HELD, THERE WERE SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS ABOUT TERM LIMITS FOR THE PRESIDENT AND FOR CONGRESS.

ULTIMATELY THEY DID NOT DO THEM.

I THINK TERM LIMITS HAVE A PLUS.

BUT THEY'RE NOT PERFECT.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU A MEMBER OF CONGRESS KNOWS THEY'RE LEAVING, THEY TEND TO DO THINGS AT THE END THAT MIGHT HELP THEM IN THE PRIVATE SECTOR OR SOMETHING SO IT'S NOT A PERFECT WAY TO SOLVE OUR PROBLEMS.

BUT IT MIGHT BE IMPROVEMENT.

I THINK AN EXPERIMENT WITH IT WOULDN'T BE THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD.

>> FORMER SPEAKER GINGRICH WAS ON OUR SHOW A FEW WEEKS AGO AND HE SUGGESTED THAT TERM LIMITS WOULD BE A GOOD THING BUT YOU GOT TO MAKE THEM LONG ENOUGH SO THAT PEOPLE CAN DEVELOP SOME REAL EXPERTISE AND GET SOME EXPERTISE IN GOVERNING.

SO, YEAH, YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THAT.

I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THE EXIT PLAN FOR SOME INDIVIDUALS.

>> THE THING THAT YOU OBSERVED AS A FORMER MEMBER OF CONGRESS IS SOMETHING THAT MANY PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE WHEN THEY'RE IN CONGRESS.

WHEN THEY'RE IN CONGRESS, THEY'RE DESPERATELY AFRAID THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE AN ELECTION AND WILL DO ALMOST ANYTHING TO STAY ELECTED.

WHEN THEY LEAVE OFFICE, THEY SAY WOW, FREE AT LAST, THANK GOD ALL MIGHTY I'M FREE AT LAST.

SO MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHEN THEY LEAVE TELL ME HOW HAPPY THEY ARE BUT BEFORE THEY LEAVE THEY'RE AFRAID THEIR LIFE WILL END IF THEY'RE NOT A MEMBER OF CANNING.

>> I CAN TELL YOU WITHOUT EQUIVOCATION, LIFE AFTER CONGRESS IS PRETTY GOOD AND I'M ENJOYING IT QUITE A BIT AND ESPECIALLY HAVING OPPORTUNITIES TO TALK TO GREAT PEOPLE LIKE YOU.

SO YOU KNOW, WE THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME ON THE SHOW.

I COULD TALK TO YOU FOR HOURS.

YOU HAVE BEEN TERRIFIC.

SO THANKS SO MUCH, MY FRIEND.

>> MY PLEASURE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THE BOOK IS THE HIGHEST CALLING.

CONVERSATIONS ON AMERICAN CONVERSATIONS ON AMERICAN PRESIDENCY AVAILABLE EVERYWHERE BOOKS ARE SOLD.