>> COMING UP NEXT ON "IVORY TOWER," A CONTEST TO DECIDE THE FATE OF THE COLUMBUS STATUE, PRICES BASED ON WHO IS BUYING INSTEAD OF WHAT THEY'RE BUYING, AND UPSTATE TOWNS ROLL OUT THE WELCOME MAT FOR A.I.

DATA CENTERS.

STAY TUNED FOR MORE WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK.

>> THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING, AND WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

WE'RE GLAD YOU'RE JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE TARA ROSS OF ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE CHAD SPARBER OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY AARON STRONG OF HAMILTON COLLEGE AND JENNIFER STROMER-GALLEY OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

WE START TONIGHT WITH A LOCAL TOPIC.

AS PRESIDENT TRUMP BEGINS WORK ON A GARDEN OF HEROES IN WASHINGTON, D.C., THE CITY OF SYRACUSE HAS EMBARKED ON A REDESIGN OF COLUMBUS CIRCLE.

ONE THAT MAY LEAVE THE COLUMBUS STATUE IN PLACE OR REMOVE IT.

CRITICS OF THE STATUE WANT IT TO COME DOWN BECAUSE IT SYMBOLIZES THE VIOLENT COLONIZATION OF NATIVE AMERICANS.

ADMIRERS WANT THE STATUE TO STAY BECAUSE IT'S A MONUMENT TO ITALIAN AMERICAN HERITAGE AND CONTRIBUTIONS.

SO, HOW WILL THE CITY DECIDE?

IT WILL HOLD A CONTEST COMPLETE WITH SUBMISSIONS FROM ARTISTS, A PANEL OF JUDGES, FEEDBACK FROM THE PUBLIC, THE WHOLE KIT AND KABOODLE.

TARA, WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO USING A CONTEST TO HELP DECIDE SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

>> ACTUALLY, I THINK THIS WAS AN EFFORT TO FIND A MIDDLE GROUND BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH CONTROVERSY, YOU KNOW, NUMEROUS LAWSUITS AND APPEALS, ET CETERA.

I THINK THIS WAS A WAY TO TRY AND SORT OF DEPERSONALIZE THE ISSUE.

BUT ALSO TO TRY AND RECOGNIZE THAT COLUMBUS SQUARE, AND USING THE TERM THAT IT IS CALLED RIGHT NOW, COLUMBUS SQUARE REALLY IS A SQUARE FOR EVERYONE.

AND SO I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE ORIGINAL GOAL WAS, AND CERTAINLY HAVING THE LOCAL HISTORICAL ASSOCIATION, AND I SHOULD EXPLAIN I'M A FORMER BOARD MEMBER OF THAT ASSOCIATION.

>> FULL DISCLOSURE.

>> BY HAVING THEM DO THIS, THIS WAS A WAY OF TRYING TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE EMOTIONS OF THE ONONDAGA NATION, OF THE COLUMBUS CIRCLE MONUMENT COMMITTEE, WHICH INVOLVES NUMEROUS ITALIAN AMERICANS AND OTHERS.

AND TO SORT OF FIND A WAY TO SAY, LET'S MAKE THIS AREA ABOUT ALL OF THOSE WHO HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO SYRACUSE.

AND WHETHER IT TAKES AWAY THE STATUE OR NOT, IT MAKES IT BROADER, IT MAKES IT MORE ABOUT THE PEOPLE OF SYRACUSE IN GENERAL.

>> THAT PROCESS SOUNDS WONDERFUL AND VERY INCLUSIVE.

BUT JENNY, IT ALSO FEELS A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE CITY IS PASSING THE BUCK HERE.

A LITTLE BIT, RIGHT?

BECAUSE IT COULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED WHEN WALSH WAS IN OFFICE.

AND, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A WHOLE ITERATION OF THIS PROCESS WHERE THE MAYOR ULTIMATELY WILL CHOOSE.

BUT YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> WELL I THINK ABOUT IT IN TERMS OF PROCESS IN THAT-- LET ME DRAW A PARALLEL.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE WATCHING THIS MONUMENT BUILDING HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON D.C.

BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

AND IT IS ENTIRELY TOP DOWN.

IT IS DECISION MAKING BY A PERSON, A SINGLE PERSON OR A SMALL COMMITTEE OF PEOPLE.

AND FROM A GOOD GOVERNMENT PERSPECTIVE, BRINGING IN THE COMMUNITY TO HAVE A LARGER GROUP OF STAKEHOLDERS BE PART OF THAT CONVERSATION, EVEN IF IT IS A CONTEST, IT IS STILL BRINGING IN JUDGES, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO ARE PART OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY AND OTHER COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHO GET TO HAVE A VOICE AND A SAY.

FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THAT'S GOOD GOVERNMENT.

>> ON THIS ISSUE OF WHETHER IT'S MIDDLE GROUND OR BUCK PASSING, I'M KIND OF SKEPTICAL THAT IT IS MIDDLE GROUND BECAUSE YOU LOOK AT THE MINNESOTA-BASED FORECAST PUBLIC ART THAT IS THE CONSULTING FIRM RUNNING THE INVITATIONAL.

IF YOU GO TO THEIR WEBSITE, IT SAYS THEY ADVOCATE FOR PUBLIC ART THAT ADVANCES JUSTICE, HEALTH AND HUMAN DIGNITY, AND THEY LEAD ARTS AND CULTURE PLANNING IN EQUITY.

THEY OPERATE A CHANGE LAB IN WHICH THEY DISRUPT THE STATUS QUO TO ADVANCE PUBLIC ART.

THAT KIND OF LANGUAGE IS, IF YOU ARE A PROGRESSIVE WHO WANTS THE STATUE GONE, YOU ARE THRILLED ABOUT THIS.

BUT IF YOU ARE ONE OF THE ADVOCATES FOR KEEPING THE STATUE IN PLACE, YOU GOT A REASON TO BE CONCERNED.

SO I DO THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT PASSING THE BUCK, WELL, IT'S NOT US.

IT'S THIS MINNESOTA COMPANY.

>> I'M GOING TO SAY THAT JUSTICE AND HUMAN DIGNITY ARE VALUES WE SHOULD ALL SUPPORT.

I DO UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE READING INTO THAT AND SAYING MAYBE THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF CONCERN THAT THIS IS QUOTE UNQUOTE WOKE AS WE LIKE TO CALL IT.

WE ARE IN 2026 AND WE ARE DEBATING PUBLIC ART.

THIS IS FANTASTIC.

RIGHT?

PUBLIC ART IS A WONDERFUL THING.

AND WE SHOULD BE HAVING DEBATES IN PUBLIC ABOUT HOW TO MAKE DECISIONS AND WHAT PUBLIC ART SHOULD BE AND WHAT IT SHOULD REPRESENT.

AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL.

AND I THINK THIS COMPETITION IS A WAY TO ENGAGE THE PUBLIC, NOT SO MUCH JUST ABOUT DO WE LIKE THE STATUE OR NOT, WHICH, UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK HAS PITTED INDIGENOUS COMMUNITIES IN THE ONONDAGA NATION AGAINST ITALIAN AMERICANS.

THOSE ARE NOT MONOLITHIC GROUPS.

THERE ARE MANY OF ITALIANS WHO ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE LEGACY OF COLUMBUS AND INDIGENOUS PEOPLE WHO ARE INCREDIBLE PATRIOTS TO AMERICAN HISTORY.

LET'S NOT TREAT THEM AS MONOLITHIC GROUPS.

LET'S FOCUS HOW DO WE DESIGN PUBLIC ART THAT SUPPORTS THE COMMUNITY IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE AND THIS COMPETITION IS A WAY TO DO THAT.

>> TARA CAN I COME BACK TO YOU AND TO AARON AND CHAD'S POINT, THE COLUMBUS POINT ORGANIZATION, AN ORGANIZED GROUP OF FOLKS WHO ARE SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THE ITALIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY HERE LED BY FORMER COUNTY EXECUTIVE NICK PIRRO.

THEY MAKE THE SAME POINT ABOUT PROCESS, POINTING OUT IT IS A MINNEAPOLIS-BASED FIRM THAT ARTISTS MAY NOT BE DRAWN FROM THE LOCAL AREA ABOUT AN ISSUE THAT IS IMPORTANT.

YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY THAT THIS COULD ULTIMATELY BE DETERMINED BY OUTSIDERS?

>> THAT IS ONE OF THE AREAS OF CONCERN FOR ME BECAUSE I THINK WITH ALL OF THE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES IN THE AREA, BOTH IN TERMS OF FACULTY AND IN TERMS OF STUDENT AND STAFF, I THINK YOU COULD HAVE STILL HELD THE CONTEST.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

BUT I THINK IT COULD HAVE BEEN DRAWN OR SORT OF OFFERED IN A SENSE, TO THE CENTRAL NEW YORK COMMUNITY, PEOPLE WHO HAVE A TRUE UNDERSTANDING OF THE CENTRAL NEW YORK COMMUNITY BECAUSE THERE IS THE POTENTIAL, THE WAY THIS IS BEING PROMOTED AND RUN, THAT YOU WILL HAVE SOMEONE FROM OUTSIDE OF THE COMMUNITY WHO MAY NOT be UNDERSTANDING, TRYING TO DEFINE WHAT THE COMMUNITY IS AND CREATE THAT AREA.

>> AND CHAD I WILL COME BACK TO YOU WITH THIS LAST QUESTION.

ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT THE CMC HAS RAISED IS WE DON'T KNOW HOT WHO THE JUDGES ARE.

IT'S PURPORTEDLY A PANEL OF EXPERTS, HISTORIANS, ET CETERA, ARTISTS WHO WILL CHOOSE BUT SHOULD THE PUBLIC KNOW WHAT THE PANEL CONSISTS OF WHAT IT IS COMPOSED OF I SHOULD SAY.

>> THAT'S WHY I WAS CONFUSED ABOUT WHAT JENNY SAID, WE KNOW WHO IS GOING TO BE ON THE PANEL.

I THOUGHT WE DIDN'T KNOW WHO WAS GOING TO BE ON THE PANEL EXCEPT THE BROAD CHARACTERIZATION OF LEFT-WING ACADEMICS.

LET'S NOT GRAND STAND.

WE ARE ALL INTO HUMAN DIGNITY.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE DIFFERENT GROUPS GO TO TO ADVANCE THEIR CAUSES SO, YEAH, I THINK THERE IS REASON TO BE SUSPECT ABOUT SOME OF THAT.

>> WITHOUT BEING TOO BIAS, IIC ECHO YOUR POINT THAT WE ARE ALL FOR HUMAN DIG NET.

WE ARE ALL FOR HUMAN DIGNITY.

MOVING ON NOW.

I THINK THE PROBLEM THEY ARE BOTH ARE CALLING FOR PASSAGE OF A BILL THAT WOULD BAN A PRACTICE KNOWN AS SURVEILLANCE PRICING OR PERSONAL PRICING.

IT'S WHEN A RETAILER SETS THE PRICE FOR AN ITEM BASED ON WHO IS BUYING; THEIR WILLINGNESS TO PAY, HOW SOON THEY NEED IT, THINGS LIKE THAT.

SENATOR MAY BELIEVES PRICING SHOULD NOT BE BASED ON WHO THE SHOPPER IS, BUT INSTEAD WHAT IS FOR SALE AND PERHAPS MARKET CONDITIONS.

CHAD, SHOULD NEW YORK BAN PERSONAL PRICING AS SOME OTHER STATES HAVE OR ARE PLANNING TO?

>> I HATE WHEN COMPANIES USE MY DATA TO CHARGE ME DIFFERENT PRICES LIKE ON MY CAR INSURANCE COMPANY CHARGED ME HIGHER PREMIUM BECAUSE I HAD TEENAGE DAUGHTERS NEVER MIND THE FACT IT'S A MANUAL TRANSMISSION THEY DON'T KNOW,000 DRIVE.

ANGRY ABOUT HOW THE PRICE OF A GALLON OF MILK CAN CHANGE DEPENDING ON THE TIME OF THE DAY YOU BUY IT.

I WONDER IF SHE IS SIMILARLY CONCERNED ABOUT HALF PRICE DRINKS IN APPS IN HAPPY HOUR.

SENATOR MAY SAYS THAT THE PRICE A PERSON PAYS SHOULD BE BASED ON WHAT THEY'RE BUYING, NOT WHO THEY ARE.

DOES SHE MEAN TO IMPLY THAT LOW INCOME FAMILIES SHOULD NOT GET TUITION DISCOUNTS AT PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES?

MY POINT IN ALL OF THIS IS THAT IF THE LAW IS AS SLOPPY AS THE RHETORIC ON THIS ISSUE, IT'S GOING TO KILL A LOT OF FORMS OF PRICE DESCRIPTION DESCRIPTION THAT PEOPLE LIKE.

SO IT'S-- PRICE DISCRIMINATION THAT PEOPLE LIKE.

I THINK THE PROBLEM THEY HAVE TO SOLVE HAS TO DO WITH BIG DATA AND THE AMOUNTS OF DATA BIG COMPANIES ARE USING.

BUT AS ARTICULATED, IT HAS ME CONCERNED.

>> TO CHAD'S POINT ABOUT FOLKS REALLY BEING UPSET ABOUT BOTH THE AVAILABILITY OF THEIR PERSONAL DATA, JENNY, BUT ALSO THE FACT THAT THIS IS BEING USED, HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE BE THAT THIS BUILDS UPON THAT AND FURTHERS THE TREND THAT WE ARE NOT HAPPY WITH?

>> YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THIS TAKES US IN SORT OF THE NEXT LOGICAL PROGRESSION WITH REGARD TO THE AMOUNT OF DATA COMPANIES NOW COLLECTED ABOUT US.

IF YOU GO TO AMAZON AND YOU HAVE YOUR TOPS CARD, ALL OF THAT AMOUNTS TO A KIND OF DATA TRAIL THAT YOU ARE CREATING THAT ALLOWS COMPANIES TO MAKE PREDICTIONS ABOUT YOUR INTERESTS, HABITS AND PRICE SENSITIVITIES.

SO TO CHAD'S POINT, THE PROBLEM IS REALLY DID DATA PRIVACY AND THE FACT THAT IN THE UNITED STATES WE HAVE NEW MEANINGFUL WE HAVE NO MEANINGFUL DATA PRIVACY PROTECTIONS.

AND IN THIS CASE, THE LEGISLATION THAT IS BEING DISCUSSED, I DON'T THINK REALLY ADDRESSES THE REAL ISSUE HERE, WHICH IS WHETHER OR NOT PEOPLE CAN OPT OUT OF THE MASS SURVEILLANCE THAT IS FUNCTIONALLY HAPPENING RIGHT NOW.

>> RIGHT, SO IF I CAN FOLLOW UP ON THAT POINT ABOUT OPTING OUT, I WAS THINKING BEFORE COMING TO THIS CONVERSATION, THAT I DO COULD JUST GO IN WHEN YOU ASK, DO YOU WANT US TO HAVE YOUR PERSONAL DATA, NO, I DON'T.

THAT THAT WOULD SUFFICE.

WOULD IT?

>> IF YOU CREATE AN AMAZON ACCOUNT, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU ARE GIVING THEM, YOU HAVE TO GIVE THEM AN EMAIL ADDRESS AND SOME BASIC INFORMATION LIKE YOUR ZIP CODE.

ZIP CODE IS A VERY POWERFUL PIECE OF DATA BECAUSE IT HELPS INDICATE WHAT YOUR LIKELY INCOME LEVEL IS AND RACIAL IDENTITY IS AND A NUMBER OF OTHER FACTORS.

AGAIN, IF YOU GET A TOPS CARD, FOR EXAMPLE, IT'S THE SAME.

THEY WANT PERSONAL INFORMATION.

YOU CAN GO INTO INCOGNITO MODE WITH YOUR BROWSER AS YOU ARE DOING ONLINE SHOPPING, BUT YOU CAN'T AVOID SOME OF THE DATA COLLECTION PRACTICES.

>> WHAT HAS BEEN REALLY INTERESTING TO ME IS A LOT OF THE RHETORIC COMING FROM OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS AND FROM THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HERE, IS REALLY ABOUT AFFORDABILITY AND NOT AT A TIME WHEN PRICES ARE ALREADY SO HIGH, TRYING TO FIGHT AGAINST PRICES GOING EVEN HIGHER, AND I ACTUALLY AGREE WITH CHAD HERE.

I THINK THEY'RE MITTSING THE MARK IN THE RHETORIC BECAUSE THIS SHOULD BE ABOUT DATA PRIVACY.

NOW MY QUESTION IS, WHO ARE THE ADVOCATES FOR SURVEILLANCE PRICING RIGHT NOW.

IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE UNITED STATES, THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW BIG POLLS DONE.

THREE QUARTERS OF AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT DATA IF YOU LIKE LOOKING AT SOMEONE YOU DO, IS THE INVISIBLE HAND OF ADAM SMITH >> I WENT SEARCHING FOR WHO IS ADVOCATING FOR THIS SO IN ADDITION TO PERM PRIVACY, THE AND THE PREMIER FROM ONTARIO.

THE OTHER ISSUE IS FAIRNESS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT COMES THROUGH AND THIS IS WHY I THINK THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY BECAUSE AFFORDABILITY EQUALS FAIRNESS IN MOST PEOPLE'S MINDS AND SO IT MAKES IT QUITE FRANKLY EASIER FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND WHY THIS IS SO MUCH OF A CONCERN EVEN THOUGH THE PERSONAL DATA IS A BIGGER ISSUE.

I THINK AFFORDABILITY JUST RESONATES MORE.

AND IT IS UNFAIR.

YOU KNOW, WE KNOW THAT ALREADY IN AREAS WHERE THERE ARE FOOD DESERTS IN TERMS OF GROCERY STORES AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THOSE INDIVIDUALS PAY MORE BECAUSE OF THE INFORMATION THAT HAS BEEN GATHERED THAT, OKAY, THE NEAREST STORE WHERE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET X ITEM IS 50 MILES AWAY.

SO WE KNOW WE CAN CHARGE YOU MORE, WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN AFFORD MORE IS A DIFFERENT ISSUE.

YOU ALMOST DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.

AND AS PRICES ARE GOING UP AND AS PEOPLE ARE BEING FORCED TO MAKE TOUGHER DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT PURCHASE, THIS RESONATES MORE WITH THE PUBLIC.

>> IT'S REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, FOR PRICE DISCRIMINATION TO BE EFFECTIVE, A COMPANY HAS TO HAVE LOCAL POWER LIKE A MONOPOLY.

THAT'S WHY YOU SEE PRICE DISCRIMINATION MORE EFFECTIVE IN PLACES LIKE AIRLINES OR-- MOVIES BECAUSE YOU COULD BUY LOW AND SELL HIGH BUT YOU CAN'T DO THAT WITH AN AIRLINE TICKET.

BUT ONE THING WE CAN THINK ABOUT HERE, TOO, IS UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

SO PRICE DISCRIMINATION CAN, NOT ALWAYS, NOT NECESSARY WILL YOU ALWAYS, BUT IT CAN INCREASE SOCIAL WELFARE BY PROMOTING TRADE THAT WOULD OTHERWISE NOT OCCUR AND I THINK THE UNIVERSITY EXAMPLE IS AN INTERESTING ONE IN THIS CONTEXT BECAUSE THE UNIVERSITIES ARE LOOKING AT DID YOU APPLY TO EARLY DECISION OR EARLY ACTION, WHAT IS YOUR FAMILY INCOME AND A WHOLE HOST OF OTHER CHARACTERISTICS THAT YOU ARE FILLING OUT ON A SHEET AND I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SKIP ON SOME OF IT.

AND IT ALLOWS FOR FAMILIES THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO PAY FULL PRICE TO SUBSIDIZE THAT CANNOT.

>> IT UNDERMINES WHAT IT IS THE TRUE VALUE OF A PRODUCT, RIGHT?

THE WE THINK ABOUT A RATIONAL MARKETPLACE WHERE PEOPLE KNOW AND JUDGE WHAT THE TRUE PRICE IS OF SOMETHING, THAT ALL GOES AWAY.

>> IT REALLY GETS DISCONNECTED FROM THAT.

I LEARNED A LOT JUST NOW.

NOW TO OUR FINAL SEGMENT.

THE POST-STANDARD REPORTED THIS WEEK ON AN UPTICK IN A-I DATA CENTERS LOOKING TO SET UP SHOP IN UPSTATE NEW YORK.

DEVELOPMENT OFFICIALS IN PLACES LIKE THE MOHAWK VALLEY GENESEE COUNTY AND THE NORTH COUNTRY ARE BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE.

THEY NEED THE PROPERTY TAX REVENUES THAT DATA CENTERS CAN BRING BUT THEY COULD DO WITHOUT THE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS THAT CAN COME WITH DATA CENTERS SUCH AS DEMANDS ON THE GRID WATER CONSUMPTION NOISE POLLUTION WITH NO GUARANTEES OF JOB CREATION.

JENNY, SHOULD CASH-STRAPPED TOWNS MAKE THE FINAL CALL ON WHERE DATA CENTERS ARE LOCATED OR SHOULD THE STATE?

>> IT'S AN IMPORTANT QUESTION BEING ASKED ACROSS THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

IT'S THE BIG BOTTLE NECK IN ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE ADVANCEMENT.

IS DATA CENTERS.

YOU CAN THINK OF DATA CENTERS AS THE GRAY MATTER IN THE A.I.

SPHERE.

THEY'RE WHAT IS DOING ALL OF THE COMPUTING SO WHEN YOU ASK CHATGPT FOR THE GOOD MOTHER'S DAY RECIPE, IT HAPPENS AT THE DATA CENTERS.

>> LIKE THE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN AT THE WIZARD OF OZ.

>> YEAH, REALLY BIG HEAD.

THEY USE A LOT OF ELECTRICITY WHICH IS A BIG CONTROVERSY ABOUT DATA CENTERS AND THEY TAKE UP A LOT OF PHYSICAL SPACE.

SO THE PROPOSED DATA CENTER THAT JUST VOTED I THINK YESTERDAY TO PAUSE A MORATORIUM ON DATA CENTERS IN THE MUNICIPALITY AS THEY INVESTIGATE WHAT THE IMPACTS WILL BE, THAT DATA CENTER, POTENTIALLY COULD USE AS MUCH ELECTRICITY AS THE CITY OF PHILADELPHIA.

AND WOULD TAKE UP ROUGHLY 125 ACRES OF LAND, WHICH IS PRODUCTIVE LAND.

YOU KNOW, THERE IS TALK ABOUT IN ILLIAN, THE REMINGTON ARMS FACILITIES THAT HAS BEEN DEFUNCT FOR A WHILE.

THERE IS TALK ABOUT RETROFITTING THAT INTO A DATA CENTER.

THE PROBLEM AGAIN, LOTS OF ELECTRICITY AND THEY DON'T HIRE PEOPLE.

THERE IS ROUGHLY AN AVERAGE DATA CENTER MIGHT HIRE 20 PEOPLE ONCE CONSTRUCTION IS DONE.

>> YOU CAN SOLVE THE ELECTRICITY PROBLEM THROUGH PRICE DISCRIMINATION.

CHARGE A LOW PRICE AND THEN ESCALATE IT... >> I DO WANT TO LINK THIS TO THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A 50% INCREASE IN ELECTRICITY DEMAND IS COMING FROM DATA CENTERS.

DATA CENTERS ARE GOING TO TAKE 10% OF OUR ELECTRICITY AROUND THE COUNTRY BY 2030 AND RIGHT NOW ELECTRICITY PRICES ARE GOING UP.

THIS IS A CLASSIC SUPPLY AND DEMAND ISSUE AND THE DEMAND IS INCREASING SO FAST THAT SUPPLY CAN'T KEEP UP AND THAT'S REALLY BAD NEWS.

SO IF YOU ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT ELECTRICITY BECAUSE OF THE CARBON EMISSIONS ASSOCIATED WITH GENERATING THAT ELECTRICITY, YOU SHOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THE EXCESS DEMAND COMING FROM DATA CENTERS BECAUSE WHAT IT WILL DO TO ELECTRICITY PRICES.

>> THIS IS WHY I THINK WHEN YOU LEAVE DECISIONS TO MUNICIPALITIES ONLY, THAT'S A PROBLEM BECAUSE THESE DECISIONS DO IMPACT ENTIRE REGIONS.

>> YEAH, IT IMPACTS ENTIRE REGIONS BUT THEY'RE COMING TO PLACES, AS I SAID IN THE OPEN, THAT NEED THE MONEY AND SO YOU ARE FINDING SMALL TOWNS THAT ARE FORKING OVER $2.5 MILLION FOR THE BUILDING THAT IS GOING TO COME.

SO TARA, WHAT ABOUT THAT?

WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT IS UPSTATE THAT IS BEHIND THE REST OF THE STATE?

>> WELL, PART OF THE ISSUE IS THAT I THINK BECAUSE UPSTATE IS SUCH A MIX OF URBAN AND RURAL, I THINK THAT'S PART OF WHY WE ARE BEHIND.

AND I ALSO THINK THAT'S WHY WE FEED TO BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT WHETHER IT SHOULD BE THE LOCAL COMMUNITY OR THE STATE, WHICH IS MAKING THE DECISION BECAUSE LOCAL COMMUNITIES, UNFORTUNATELY, SOMETIMES HAVE A TENDENCY TO LOOK MORE SHORT-TERM THAN LONG-TERM.

SO THEY THINK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS MIGHT PROVIDE JOBS.

THE SORT OF ADVERSE OF THAT, OF COURSE, IS BECAUSE YOU DO ALSO HAVE MORE RURAL AREAS, WHERE YOU HAVE MORE CONCERNS ABOUT THE IMPACT ON WATER, THE IMPACT ON ELECTRICAL USE, ET CETERA.

YOU KNOW, FOLKS WHO MIGHT NOT BE AS QUICK TO, YOU KNOW, GET OUT TO A PUBLIC FORUM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, MIGHT BE JUST AS NEGATIVELY IMPACTED.

SO IF THE STATE IS SORT OF MAKING THE DECISION, IT SORT OF MAKES IT, I WOULD LIKE TO THINK, A LITTLE FAIRER SO THAT AT LEAST ALL VOICES ARE HEARD AND CAN HAVE A PART OF THE DECISION MAKING.

>> THAT IT IS MORE INCLUSIVE.

IF I COULD COME BACK TO YOU, AARON, BECAUSE IT'S MORE OF YOUR AREA.

THE WATER CONSUMPTION IS HUMONGOUS, RIGHT?

>> THE COOLING AND ENERGY NEEDS OF THESE DATA CENTERS ARE ENORMOUS.

LOOKING AT ELECTRICITY.

HUNDREDS OF MEGAWATTS, SOME OF THEM ARE GOING UP TO THE THOUSANDS OF MEGAWATTS.

THIS IS A BIG CHUNK OF ELECTRICITY AND THEY NEED WATER TO KEEP THINGS COOL WHICH REDUCES THE USE OF WATER RESOURCES THAT CAN'T GO TO OTHER THINGS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF LOCAL IMPACTS ON THE ENVIRONMENT FROM THESE.

>> CHAD.

>> DATA CENTERS ARE IN HIGH DEMAND.

AND AS A SOCIETY WE SHOULD WANT TO PUT THEM IN PLACES THAT IMPOSE THE LOWEST COSTS WHICH NOW MEANS PLACES WITH CHEAP LAND, LOW POPULATION DENSITY, LOTS OF WATER AND CLEAN ELECTRICITY.

SO IF NOT HERE, THEN WHERE.

SOME OF WHAT I THINK WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TOO, COMES DOWN TO SUBSIDY AREA ISSUES, LIKE WHO GETS TO DECIDE THESE THINGS.

AND I THINK THE LOCAL POLLUTION ISSUES LIKE THE SOUND AND STUFF IS FOR A LOCAL COMMUNITY TO DECIDE, WHEREAS THE INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUES LIKE WHERE YOU HAVE POWER LINES CROSSING JURISDICTIONS, THAT FUNDAMENTALLY HAS TO BE A STATE LEVEL KIND OF DECISION.

>> TO THE TABLE, THIS ALMOST FEELS LIKE CART BEFORE THE HORSE; THAT IT'S COMING SO FAST THAT NEW YORK ISN'T READY.

THE GOVERNOR HAS ASKED THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION TO STUDY THE ISSUE.

BUT CHINA IS WAY AHEAD.

SO IS THERE ANYTHING THAT CAN BE DONE TO SORT OF SPEED UP OUR ACCOMMODATION OF THIS?

>> I WAS JUST GOING SAY I SURPRISE WHEN I HEARD HER MAKE THAT ANNOUNCEMENT THEY WOULD TAKE A YEAR TO MAKE THAT DECISION OR THE RESEARCH.

WE DON'T HAVE A YEAR BECAUSE THE DEMAND IS SO POWERFUL RIGHT NOW.

>> 30 SUPER CENTERS ARE LOOKING TO COME RIGHT NOW.

WELL, WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON TO OUR GRADE BOOKS.

AND WE ARE GOING TO START WITH OUR FS.

AND TARA, DO YOU WANT TO GIVE US YOUR F.

>> MY F GOES TO NINE MEMBERS OF THE SOUTH CAROLINA STATE LEGISLATURE WHO ARE PUSHING A fellowEGISLATORS TO STRIP SOUTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY, WHICH IS AN HBCU OF ITS STATE FUNDING.

MY F IS ALSO SHARED WITH THE STUDENTS OF THAT SOUTH CAROLINA STATE UNIVERSITY HBCU BECAUSE THIS ALL STARTED WITH A CONTROVERSY OVER A REQUEST BY THE UNIVERSITY TO HAVE THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PAMELA EVETT BE THEIR COMMENCEMENT SPEAKER.

SHE IS A MAGA REPUBLICAN AND THE STUDENTS PROTESTED BECAUSE THEy DID NOT REFLECT THEIR VALUES.

THE COLLEGE CITING SECURITY CONCERNS DISINVITED HER AND THE STATE LEGISLATORS ARE DEMANDING THAT THE STATE PULL ALL OF THE FUNDING FROM THE HBCU.

FIRST OF ALL IT SEEMS LIKE EVERYBODY SEEMS TO BE FORGETTING THAT LOVELY THING KNOWN AS THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

THE STUDENTS HAD A RIGHT TO PROTEST.

THE COLLEGE DOES HAVE A REASONABLE CONCERN ABOUT SECURITY, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF INCREASING ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE STUDENTS HAD THE RIGHT TO PROTEST, THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY SHE HAD TO BE DISINVITED BECAUSE I'M SURE EVEN ON THAT CAMPUS, THERE ARE SOME STUDENTS WHO MAY HAVE WANTED TO HEAR HER.

SO THEY HAD A RIGHT TO PROTEST.

THE LEGISLATORS DON'T HAVE TO LIKE THE DECISION BY THE COLLEGE, BUT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO REMEMBER THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

>> NOW, THAT'S WHAT I CALL A WHOLE PREACH RIGHT THERE.

CHAD, YOU ARE UP.

>> SO A LOT OF US KNOW THAT SEVEN INDIANA REPUBLICANS LAWMAKERS VOTED AGAINST TRUMP'S TO GERRYMANDER DEMOCRATS ATTEMPT TO REDISTRICT THE DELEGATION.

AND SOME WERE TRUMP LOYALISTS BECAUSE REDISTRICTING WOULD OCCUR OUTSIDE THE 10-YEAR CYCLE AND TRUMP ATTACKED THEM WITH A VENGEANCE.

FIVE LOST THEIR PRIMARIES LAST WEEK.

THESE LAWMAKERS EARN $33,000 A YEAR, DON'T UNDER ESTIMATE THE TRUMP CULT'S WILLINGNESS TO GO EVEN AFTER THE SMALLEST DEFECTOR.

>> AARON.

>> WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE INCREASED DEMAND FOR ELECTRICITY.

MY F GOES TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SPENDING BILLIONS OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO PAY ENERGY COMPANIES NOT TO BUILD OFFSHORE WIND TURBINES EXACTLY WHEN WEIGH NEED MORE ELECTRICITY SUPPLY.

THE CLEAN POWER FROM THESE TURBINES CAN PROVIDE MUCH NEEDED ELECTRICITY AND BE PART OF TRANSITIONING TO AN ELECTRIC GRID NOT RELIANT ON DIRTY FOSSIL FUELS THAT KILL PEOPLE.

THEY HAVE IT COMPLETELY BACKWARDS ON THIS.

>> JENNY.

>> MY F GOES TO THE UNREGULATED AND CORRUPTING PREDICTION MARKETS.

CAMPAIGN STAFFERS TOLD NPR THEY MADE THOUSANDS BETTING AGAINST THEIR OWN CANDIDATES.

MORE WORRISOME IS GOVERNMENT AND MILITARY INSIDERS ARE BETTING ON MILITARY AND POLICY ACTIONS, IN SOME CASES MAKING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

AND THE NATURE OF THESE MARKETS MEANS THAT THEIR IDENTITIES ARE OBSCURED WHICH CHALLENGES ANY PROSECUTION ATTEMPTS.

SO WHEN THE PEOPLE WHO START WARS, RUN CAMPAIGNS AND SET POLICY PROFIT FROM PREDICTING THEM, THAT'S NOT A FAIR MARKET.

IT'S A RACKET.

>> OKAY, AND NOW FOR OUR AS, STARTING AGAIN WITH YOU, TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO LICHI WANG WHO IS ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S MOST FOREST SCHOLAR ACTIVISTS IN ASIAN-AMERICANS SINCE THE 60S ESTABLISHING THE RESEARCH CENTER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA BERKELEY, ALSO CO-FOUNDER OF CHINESE FOR AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND RECENTLY PROVIDED A $1 MILLION ENDOWMENT TO MAKE SURE THE CENTER KEEPS FUNCTIONING.

>> CHAD.

>> APRIL 28, HAMILTON'S BURT MARSHALL PLEAD GUILTY TO A DECADES LONG PONZI SCHEME OF NEARLY $95 MILLION EFFECTIVELY ENDING A LONG ORDEAL FOR OUR VILLAGE.

YOU CAN EARN A SECOND BUCK TAG BY KILLING AN EXTRA CO- DOE WHICH HELPS REDUCE THE POPULATION, DEER, GIANT RATS SPREAD DISEASE AND COUNTLESS CAR ACCIDENTS AND SEVERELY OVER POPULATED IN OUR STATE.

I SUPPORT THESE NEW REGULATIONS.

>> MY A GOES TO THE GOVERNMENT TAKING THE MEAT PACKING COMPANIES.

THERE IS NO USDA APPROVED MEAT PROCESSING FACILITIES IN MADISON, ONONDAGA AND FARMERS HAVE TO TRUCK THEIR ANIMALS TO OUTSIDE COUNTIES.

>> WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE BECAUSE THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR YOU TONIGHT.

BEFORE WE GO A SHOUT OUT TO CAROL WHO WROTE TO SHARE SOME INTERESTING THOUGHTS ABOUT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S BALLROOM.

WE'D LOVE TO HEAR WHAT THE REST OF YOU THINK.

PLEASE WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER" HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.