WELCOME AMERICA, TO BALANCING ACT-- THE SHOW THAT AIMS TO TAME THE POLITICAL CIRCUS OF TWO-PARTY POLITICS.

I'M JOHN KATKO.

THIS WEEK: WHAT ARE THE LEGAL RIGHTS OF IMMIGRANTS?

WE'LL SPEAK WITH IMMIGRATION POLICY EXPERT, LAURA COLLINS, TO GET HER VIEW FROM THE CENTER RING.

THEN, TWO MEMBERS OF CONGRESS SWING IN TO THE TRAPEZE TO GIVE THEIR THOUGHTS ON IF IMMIGRATION LAWS ARE BEING CORRECTLY INTERPRETED.

FINALLY, YOU'LL HEAR "MY TAKE", AND WE'LL LEARN WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT WEEK IN WASHINGTON WITH BLOOMBERG'S ALISA PARENTI.

BUT FIRST, LET'S STEP ONTO THE TIGHTROPE.

ONE OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT'S CORE DUTIES IS PROTECTING PUBLIC SAFETY AND NATIONAL SECURITY-AND IT HAS LONG USED THE LAW TO DO IT.

AN EARLY EXAMPLE OF THIS IDEA IS "THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT OF 1798."

IT WAS PASSED DURING RISING TENSIONS WITH FRANCE, WHEN PRESIDENT JOHN ADAMS AND THE FEDERALISTS FEARED WAR FOLLOWING THE FRENCH REVOLUTION.

THE LAW GIVES THE PRESIDENT BROAD POWER TO DETAIN OR DEPORT CITIZENS OF ENEMY NATIONS WITHOUT A HEARING.

WHILE IT WASN'T USED WHEN FIRST ENACTED, IT HAS SINCE BEEN USED DURING THREE WARS IN U.S. HISTORY.

DURING THE WAR OF 1812, PRESIDENT JAMES MADISON ORDERED BRITISH NATIONALS TO REPORT TO LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND ABIDE BY TRAVEL RESTRICTIONS, OR BE SUBJECT TO DEPORTATION.

THEN, DURING WORLD WAR I, PRESIDENT WOODROW WILSON APPLIED THE ACT TOWARDS GERMANS AND AUSTRO-HUNGARIANS, USING THE ACT TO RESTRICT THEIR RIGHT TO OWN FIREARMS, THEIR ABILITY TO PUBLISH ANYTHING CRITICAL OF THE U.S., AND TO RESIDE NEAR MILITARY FACILITIES.

AND, MOST INFAMOUSLY, DURING WORLD WAR II: PRESIDENT FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT USED THE LAW TO INCARCERATE MORE THAN 120,000 JAPANESE AMERICANS, RELOCATING THEM FROM THEIR HOMES INTO INTERNMENT CAMPS.

NOTABLY, NO INTERNED JAPANESE AMERICANS WERE EVER CHARGED OR CONVICTED OF ESPIONAGE OR SABOTAGE.

TODAY, THE "THE ALIEN ENEMIES ACT" STILL EXISTS IN THE PRESIDENT'S ARSENAL.

IN MARCH, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION INVOKED THE ACT TO LABEL THE VENEZUELAN GANG, THE TREN DE ARAGUA, A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

AND IT HAS BEEN USED TO DEPORT MORE THAN 200 UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO PRISONS IN EL SALVADOR.

TRUMP ISN'T THE ONLY MODERN PRESIDENT TO ENFORCE STRICT IMMIGRATION POLICIES.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA-CALLED BY SOME THE "DEPORTER-IN-CHIEF"- REMOVED OVER THREE MILLION IMMIGRANTS, MORE THAN ANY OTHER U.S. PRESIDENT.

HIS ADMINISTRATION USED FORMAL IMMIGRATION COURTS, BUT ALSO LEANED HEAVILY ON "EXPEDITED REMOVAL," A PROCESS THAT SKIPS COURT HEARINGS FOR CERTAIN BORDER CROSSERS.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION CONTINUES TO BE A FLASHPOINT.

IN JANUARY, THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY EXPANDED "EXPEDITED REMOVAL" AND HAS MADE IT EVEN EASIER TO REMOVE IMMIGRANTS FROM THE UNITED STATES.

THESE EVOLVING POLICIES ARE CURRENTLY BEING CHALLENGED IN THE COURTS.

INDEED, THE BOUNDARIES ARE MURKY-- BUT WE ARE HERE TO BRING CLARITY TO THE SITUATION.

LET'S START WITH THE CENTER RING.

JOINING ME IN THE CENTER RING TO FURTHER EXPLORE THE RIGHTS EXTENDED TO IMMIGRANTS IS IMMIGRATION POLICY EXPERT, LAURA COLLINS, OF THE BUSH INSTITUTE IN DALLAS, TEXAS.

I'M HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU AND TALK ABOUT SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN VEXING THE COUNTRY FOR A LONG TIME AND THAT'S IMMIGRATION.

IN PARTICULAR, I HAVE A QUESTION TO START OFF WITH.

THERE IS A LOT OF CONFUSION ABOUT IT.

AND THAT IS DO INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY OR EVEN IF THEY HAVE STATUS, DO THEY HAVE ANY DUE PROCESS RIGHTS?

>> YOU KNOW, THIS IS ACTUALLY A REALLY EASY QUESTION.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW A LAW DEGREE TO FIND THE ANSWER TO THIS.

YOU CAN JUST PULL UP A COPY OF THE CONSTITUTION MUCH AND IT STATES VERY CLEARLY, PLACES WHERE THE CONSTITUTION APPLIES TO PEOPLE AND TERRENCE AND WHERE THE CONSTITUTION APPLIES FOR CITIZENS.

FOR DUE PROCESS RIGHTS IT APPLIES TO PERSONS AND WHAT THAT SIMPLY MEANS IS THAT THE SAME RIGHTS THAT EXTEND TO YOU AND ME AS U.S. CITIZENS, ALSO EXTEND TO THEM.

THERE ARE A FEW EXCEPTIONS AND CAVEATS DEPENDING ON WHAT HAS BEEN WRITTEN INTO LAW BUT FOR THE MOST PART, IMMIGRANTS, REGARDLESS OF THEIR STATUS HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS.

>> LET'S MAKE SURE EVERYONE IS PERFECTLY CLEAR WHAT WE MEAN BY DUE PROCESS.

DUE PROCESS MEANS THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO A HEARING AND THEY PUT THE GOVERNMENT TO ITS PROOF.

IN OTHER WORDS, IF THE GOVERNMENT THINKS YOU ARE AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT, THEY HAVE TO BASICALLY PROVE THAT IN A HEARING, IS THAT CORRECT?

>> THAT'S CORRECT IN ALMOST EVERY SINGLE CASE.

THERE IS AN EXCEPTION CALLED EXPEDITED REMOVAL, WHERE YOU DON'T NECESSARILY NEED THE SAME SORT OF HEARING IN FRONT OF AN IMMIGRATION JUDGE BUT THAT IS A NARROW EXCEPTION FOR THE MOST PART.

ALMOST EVERY SINGLE IMMIGRANT WHETHER THEY'RE HERE WITH THE STATUS OR NOT IS ENTITLED TO THE HEARING.

>> THAT DLIN DELINEATES THE FIFTH AMENDMENT RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> AND WITHIN THE FIFTH AMENDMENT THEY DON'T REFER TO CITIZENS.

THEY REFER TO PERSONS, IS THAT RIGHT AND THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, RIGHT?

THAT MEANS BECAUSE IT REFERS TO PERSONS, IT MEANS THAT ANYBODY, WHETHER YOU ARE HERE LEGALLY OR ILLEGALLY, YOU HAVE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS, RIGHT?

>> YES.

>> HAVE COURTS INTERPRETED THAT AS SUCH?

>> YES, I BELIEVE SO.

THIS IS A LONG STANDING AREA OF LAW.

IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS NEW AND WHILE THAT PROCESS MAY BE SLOW AT TIMES, AND CAN BE FRUSTRATING IF YOU ARE THE GOVERNMENT TRYING TO CARRY OUT REMOVALS, IT STILL EXISTS AND EXISTS TO PROTECT NOT JUST THE MIGRANTS BUT EXISTS TO PROTECT YOU AND ME.

>> GOT IT.

NOW AS YOU KNOW, AND WE ALL KNOW, THERE ARE DIFFERENT GRADATIONS OF PEOPLE HERE IN THE UNITED STATES THAT ARE NOT CITIZENS.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE COMPLETELY ILLEGALLY, JUST SNUCK INTO THE COUNTRY.

HAVE YOU PEOPLE THAT HAVE DIFFERENT STATUS MAYBE A STUDENT VISA OR HERE ON A WORK VISA OR HAVE THEIR GREEN CARD, WHATEVER.

SO DO THEIR RIGHTS DIFFER BASED ON THE STATUS THAT THE INDIVIDUAL HAS WHEN THEY'RE HERE?

>> THEY DO THE MARGINS.

I WOULD SAY THAT FOR THE SORT OF BIG CONSTITUTIONAL QUESTIONS, THOSE PROTECTIONS ARE THE SAME FOR EVERYBODY.

BUT WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE DIFFERENCES ACCORDING TO THE TYPE OF VISA THAT YOU HAVE, THERE ARE TERMS TO MAKE SURE THAT VISA APPLIES.

WE KNOW HAVE YOU MORE PROTECTIONS IF YOU ARE A LEGAL PERMANENT RESIDENT OR GREEN CARD HOLDER, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF YOU ARE SUBJECT TO REMOVAL PROCEEDINGS, ALMOST EVERY SINGLE PERSON WHO HAS BEEN MARKED FOR REMOVAL OR HAS BEEN ACCUSED OF DOING SOMING THAT WOULD VIOLATE THEIR VISA HAS THE OPPORTUNITY FOR A HEARING IN FRONT OF AN IMMIGRATION JUDGE.

>> OKAY.

SO YOU SAID IMMIGRATION JUDGE.

THAT'S WHERE I WANTED TO GO NEXT.

IF YOU HAVE TO HAVE A HEARING, YOU HAVE TO HAVE A JUDGE PRESIDING OVER THAT HEARING OR AN INDIVIDUAL EQUIVALENT TO A JUDGE.

DO WE HAVE ENOUGH JUDGES IN THE COUNTRY TO HANDLE THIS MASSIVE BACKLOG OF PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY?

>> IMMIGRATION JUDGES IS ONE OF THOSE PLACES WHERE THERE IS A LARGE BOTTLE NECK.

THIS ADMINISTRATION HAS PROMISED HIGH NUMBERS OF REMOVALS BECAUSE OF THE DUE PROCESS RIGHTS, THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH IMMIGRATION JUDGES TO HEAR THE CASES AND THAT'S TRUE WHETHER YOU ARE TRYING TO REMOVE PEOPLE OR WHETHER YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE ASYLUM SYSTEM WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO AFFIRMATIVELY GAIN A LEGAL STATUS HERE.

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH IMMIGRATION JUDGES TO REALLY HEAR THOSE CASES AS WELL AND SO THAT IS A PLACE WHERE THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT BOTTLE NECK TO THE PROCESS MOVING QUICKLY.

>> SO HAS THERE BEEN AN EFFORT TO FIX THIS BACKLOG AND GET MORE IMMIGRATION JUDGES?

AND IF THERE HAS AN EFFORT, WHY HASN'T IT COME TO FRUITION?

>> I FEEL EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT TO RORP THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS INCLUDED A PROPOSAL TO INCREASE THE NUMBER OF IMMIGRATION JUDGES.

YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T JUST SNAP YOUR FINGERS AND DO IT, EVEN IF YOU INCREASE THE FUNDING AVAILABLE, HAVE YOU TO GO HIRE THEM AND THEY'RE EXECUTIVE BRANCH POSITIONS SO IT DOES TAKE SOME TIME TO STAFF UP AND FIND PEOPLE WHO CAN BE IMMIGRATION JUDGES.

HAVE YOU TO ESTABLISH AND THEY HAVE TO FIND A DOCKET, WHERE YOU ARE GOING TO PUT THEM.

SO THERE IS, AGAIN, A PROCESS TO THAT AS WELL.

YOU CANNOT JUST SIMPLY ADD IMMIGRATION JUDGES QUICKLY AND EXPECT THAT THE PROBLEM WILL GO AWAY BECAUSE THE BACKLOG RIGHT NOW IS MILLIONS OF CASES.

>> AND THERE IS ANOTHER ASPECT OF THE MINIMUM WAGE GRACE ISSUE, AT LEAST-- FOR THE IMMIGRATION ISSUES CAUGHT AT THE BORDER ON A REGULAR BASIS.

THE EXTRAORDINARILY HIGH NUMBER OF INDIVIDUALS CAUGHT ARE CLAIMING ASYLUM AND WHEN YOU CLAIM ASYLUM, CERTAIN THINGS KICK IN RIGHT AWAY UNDER U.S. LAW.

CAN YOU BRIEFLY EXPLAIN THAT ASPECT TO IT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE?

>> SURE, IF YOU REQUEST ASYLUM, THAT MEANS THAT YOU ARE AFRAID OF RETURNING TO YOUR HOME COUNTRY.

UNDER U.S. LAW, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO A CREDIBLE FEAR INTERVIEW AND IN FRONT OF AN IMMIGRATION JUDGE TO MAKE SURE WE ARE NOT SENDING BACK PEOPLE WHO MIGHT BE PERSECUTED BY THEIR HOME GOVERNMENT, MIGHT BE TORTURED, SO THERE ARE ADDITIONAL RIGHTS THAT COME WITH REQUESTING ASYLUM.

FOR A LOT OF THE FOLKS AT THE BORDER, IT'S THEIR ONLY LEGAL PATHWAY TO THE UNITED STATES.

I KNOW IT FEELS LIKE IT'S NOT A LEGAL PATHWAY BECAUSE WE SEE SO MANY PEOPLE AT THE BORDER REQUESTING IT.

BUT THESE ARE PEOPLE, EVEN IF THEY QUALIFIED FOR A WORK VISA, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS JUST NOT ENOUGH OF THOSE TO GO AROUND.

MAYBE THE COMPANIES DON'T RECRUIT IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

MAYBE THEY DON'T HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER IN THE UNITED STATES WHO COULD SPONSOR THEM OR MAYBE THE GREEN CARD BACKLOG IS TOO LONG.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE SEEKING OPPORTUNITY AND FREEDOM, THINGS THAT WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

ASYLUM IS A LEGAL PATHWAY TORE THEM AND ONE OF THE ONLY ONES AVAILABLE.

>> ONE OTHER SUBJECT, WHEN THEY COME ACROSS THE BORDER, FOR EXAMPLE, OR WHEN SOMEONE IS FOUND TO BE HERE ILLEGALLY, DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETAIN THEM PENDING THE HEARING THAT THEY'RE OWED?

>> YEAH, I BELIEVE SO.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME LIMITATIONS ON THAT DEPENDING ON YOUR AGE.

OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A LIMITATION ON THAT, NOT JUST IN THE RIGHT SPHERE BUT CAPACITY SPHERE.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DETENTION BEDS TO DETAIN ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE CERTAINLY CAN DETAIN PEOPLE FOR AN AMOUNT OF TIME, BUT IT IS NOT NECESSARILY UNIVERSAL.

THAT'S WHY ALTERNATIVES TO DETENTION EXIST.

THAT IS A TOOL THAT GOVERNMENTS, WHETHER REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRAT ADMINISTRATIONS HAVE USED OVER THE TIME TO MONITOR PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE WITHOUT AUTHORIZATION, MAKE SURE THEY SHOW UP TO THEIR COURT HEARINGS, SO WE KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

NOT EVERYONE IS DETAINED BUT THERE IS A RIGHT TO DETAIN THEM.

>> BECAUSE OF THE DRASTIC LACK OF BEDS TO DETAIN THESE INDIVIDUALS, PEOPLE ARE HERE ILLEGALLY ARE ARRESTED AND ENTER BASICALLY-- PAROLED INTO THE COUNTRY BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE CAPACITY TO KEEP THEM, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 50,000 PEOPLE DETAINED AT THE MOMENT, SO WE DO HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE CAPACITY.

AND WITH BORDER NUMBERS BEING LOW, IT'S NOT REALLY THE BORDER THAT'S DRIVING THOSE NUMBERS AT THIS POINT.

IT'S THE INTERIOR REMOVALS.

BUT NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO BE DETAINED, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU ARE A VULNERABLE POPULATION IT MAY NOT MAKE SENSE TO DETAIN YOU.

FAMILIES IN PARTICULAR ARE DIFFICULT TO DETAIN.

THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT SAFEGUARDS THAT GO INTO PLACE TO MAKE SURE IT IS THE RIGHT ENVIRONMENT FOR CHILDREN, FOR EXAMPLE, SO NOT EVERYONE IS APPROPRIATE FOR A DETENTION ENVIRONMENT.

SO THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO MAKE DECISIONS ON THAT.

WE'VE SEEN WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE TRY TO DETAIN EVERYBODY.

IT QUICKLY RESULTS IN OVERCROWDING AND A SITUATION THAT DOESN'T, IS NOT WORKABLE FOR THE AGENCIES, NOT WORKABLE FOR ANYBODY.

SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A CAPACITY ISSUE AND A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO MAKE THIS SYSTEM RUN?

>> WELL YOU SHED SOME GREAT LIGHT ON THE SITUATION THAT HAS BEEN A LONG, LONG PROBLEM THAT HAS VEXED MANY ADMINISTRATIONS OVER THE YEARS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR INSIGHT.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

NOW, LET'S CONTINUE THE CONSERVATION ON THE TRAPE EZE.

SO, ARE THE IMMIGRATION AND DEPORTATION LAWS BEING INTERPRETED CORRECTLY AND IMPLEMENTED RESPONSIBLY?

JOINING US ON THE TRAPEZE ARE ILLINOIS DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN JONATHAN L. JACKSON AND TEXAS REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMAN TONY GONZALES.

WELCOME, GENTLEMEN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANKS SO MUCH FOR HAVING YOU BOTH HERE.

THERE IS A CONSTANT BALANCE BETWEEN THE RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS AND KEEPING OUR COUNTRY SAFE AND THE IMMIGRATION DEBATE RIGHT NOW IS FRONT AND CENTER IN THAT LONG-TERM ATTEMPT AT BALANCE.

WE'VE SEEN THROUGHOUT OUR NATION'S HISTORY TIMES WHEN WE'VE GOT IT OUT OF WHACK.

YOU MAY BELIEVE IT IS OUT OF WHACK NOW.

YOU MAY BELIEVE THAT WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT, BUT THE QUESTION I'LL START WITH, CONGRESSMAN GONZALEZ, I'LL BRING IT TO YOU FIRST.

HOW ARE WE DOING WITH RESPECT TO BALANCING THE RIGHTS BETWEEN THE CIVIL LIBERTIES OF INDIVIDUALS AND PROTECTING OUR COUNTRY WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION?

>> I THINK THAT'S THE KEY.

WE HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT AND CONGRESS HAS A ROLE TO PLAY IF THIS AND I THINK IT'S AN EVERYDAY CHALLENGE.

I WILL TELL YOU THIS.

I REPRESENT A DISTRICT THAT IS 823 MILES OF THE SOUTHERN BORDER, NEARLY HALF OF THE SOUTHERN BORDER.

TAKES ME 10 HOURS TO GET FROM ONE END TO THE OTHER AND WHAT I'VE SEEN IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS IS OUR LIVES HAVE COMPLETELY CHANGED FOR THE POSITIVE.

I THINK FOR MANY AMERICANS, THEY JUST WANT TO BE TREATED FAIRLY, RIGHT?

THEY JUST WANT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALL OBEYING THE LAW.

WE ARE STOPPING AT THE STOP SIGN.

WE ARE PAYING OUR TAXES.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE DOING ALL THE THINGS WE NEED TO DO.

SO AT THE END OF THE DAY, AMERICANS JUST WANT TO BE TREATED FAIRLY AND THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE HERE IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY TREATED DIFFERENTLY THAN THEY ARE.

NOW IT IS A BALANCING ACT THOUGH, RIGHT?

YOU CAN GO TOO FAR ONE WAY OR YOU CAN GO TOO FAR THE OTHER AND I THINK THAT'S THE KEY.

THE GOAL TO ME, THE REAL GOAL IS TO HAVE CONGRESS, THE BODY CLOSEST TO THE PEOPLE, LEAD US THROUGH THIS.

>> CONGRESSMAN JACKSON, ANY CONCERNS WITH HOW THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS ENFORCING THE IS A MAKEUP ARTIST THAT WAS LAW ABIDING.

SO I THINK WHAT THE PRESIDENT HAS DONE IS ABSOLUTELY ATROCIOUS.

THAT THE VIOLENT CRIMES THEY SHOULD BE TARGETED.

THEY SHOULD BE REMOVED BUT PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE TO WORK, THEY WANT TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE THAT HAD TO FLEE BECAUSE CORRUPTION IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY BECAUSE OF DANGER OR BECAUSE OF GANG VIOLENCE.

WE SHOULD BE WELCOMING YOUR TIRED, YOUR POOR AND HUDDLED MASSES.

A HUGE ECONOMIC ISSUES THAT AMERICANS HAVE TO FACE ON BRINGING PEOPLE IN HERE TO CONTINUE OUR ADVANTAGE IN SUSTAINED GROWTH.

>> CONGRESSMAN GONZALEZ, DO YOU HAVE ANY CONCERNS ABOUT ITSELF DUE PROCESS BEING GIVEN OR LACK OF DUE PROCESS GIVEN AND THE INDIVIDUALS BEING DEPORTED?

MOST ARE GETTING HEARINGS BUT SOME ARE NOT.

ARE YOU CONCERNED WITH THAT.

>> YOU ALWAYS HAVE CONCERNS WITH THAT.

WE ARE A LARGE COUNTRY.

$300 MILLION OF US AND YOU HAVE ALL THE DIFFERENT CASES.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS IN POLITICS IS YOU TAKE ONE INSTANT AND YOU TRY TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF THAT IS THE NORM.

WHAT I WANT THE NORM TO BE IS FOR RULES TO BE FOLLOWED AND LAWS TO BE IN PLACE.

AND FOR TOO LONG THE NORM HAD BEEN LAWLESSNESS.

ONCE AGAIN I SAW IT ALONG THE BORDER.

FOR MANY AMERICANS, THEY'RE GOING HEY, WHAT ABOUT US?

SOMEHOW WE ARE IN THE BACK OF THE LINE OF ALL THESE THINGS THAT ARE OCCURRING.

NOW THE CITIES ARE INVESTING IN PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE ILLEGALLY AND NOT INVESTING IN OUR HOUSING OR IN OUR JOBS OR OPPORTUNITIES.

SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE SOME TIME BEFORE THAT BALANCES OUT.

BUT ONCE AGAIN, IT'S CONGRESS' JOB TO PROVIDE OVERSIGHT AND APPROPRIATING THE FUNDS FOR THAT AND I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE TAKE THAT SERIOUS.

>> CONGRESSMAN JACKSON, YOU MENTIONED PREVIOUS ABOUT AN INDIVIDUAL BEING QUOTE UNQUOTE KIDNAPPED AND SHIPPED OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

WOULD YOU FEEL DIFFERENTLY IF THE INDIVIDUAL WAS TAKEN INTO CUSTODY AND GIVEN A HEARING BEFORE HE WAS SHIPPED OUT?

>> YES.

I WOULD TOTALLY BE FINE WITH A PERSON THAT HAD THE PRIVILEGE TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND VIOLATED THE SAFETY AND HEALTH OF AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, THEY SHOULD GO.

I WOULD BE TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT BUT WHEN I HEAR ABOUT A MOTHER WHO HAS A CHILD AND THE CHILD IS A LEGAL AMERICAN CITIZEN, THE CHILD HAS CANCER AND THEY HAVE BEEN-- THE CHILD HAS BEEN DEPORTED WITH THE MOTHER, I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT.

IT'S SIMPLY A LACK OF COMPASSION.

WHEN YOU HEAR-- WHEN I SEE PEOPLE ROUNDED UP THAT ARE TRYING TO GET MEDICAL SERVICES RIGHT HERE IN THE CITY OF CHICAGO.

WE'VE STOPPED MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THIS POPULATION ARE NOT GOING TO THE HOSPITAL ANYMORE.

THEY ARE NOT PICKING UP THEIR MEDICINE.

THEY'RE BECOMING SICKER.

I DON'T WANT PEOPLE LIVING IN FEAR.

PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN FEAR, NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM THAT.

I DON'T WANT TO SEE A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER'S LIFE IN DANGER.

LET'S HAVE A PROCESS WHERE WE BRING PEOPLE OUT, THAT THE PEOPLE ARE HONORABLE, THEY HAVE BEEN PAYING THEIR TAXES AND LET'S GIVE THEM A PATHWAY TO STAY HERE AND NECESSITY WANT GO GO BACK HOME, LET'S ASSIST THEM.

>> THE COMMENTS I HEAR FROM BOTH OF YOU IS COMPASSION IN VARYING DEGREES AND RESPECT FOR DUE PROCESS AND RULE OF LAW.

LET'S TAKE IT TO THE NEXT STEP IF YOU BOTH BELIEVE IN THOSE TENETS, WHICH IS GREAT, WHAT WOULD YOU DO TO CHANGE THE LAWS AND CONGRESSMAN JACKSON, LET'S START WITH YOU.

WOULD YOU TWEAK THE IMMIGRATION LAWS ONE WAY OR THE OTHER TO MAKE IT A BETTER SITUATION?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I WOULD MAKE SURE THAT EMPLOYERS HAD TO DOCUMENT PEOPLE AT THAT TIME PEOPLE ARE NOT EXPLOITING THE LABOR.

IF YOU TAKE THE INCENTIVE OUT FROM EMPLOYERS GETTING ALL THE BENEFITS AND THESE PEOPLE HAVING TO LIVE IN THE SHADOWS I'M AGAINST THAT.

IT COULDN'T EXIST IF IT WASN'T PROFITABLE AND IT WOULDN'T BE PROFITABLE IF EMPLOYERS WERE PENALIZED FOR HIRING THAT PEOPLE THAT WERE DOING WORK UNDOCUMENTED.

WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE UNDERBELLY WHO IS BENEFITING FROM THIS.

THE PEOPLE ARE EXPLOITED AND THE CORPORATIONS ARE MAKING HUGE SUMS, EXTRA FUNDS FOR THAT.

SO MY BIG WAVE OF THE WAND WOULD BE I WOULD HOLD CORPORATIONS RESPONSIBLE THAT HAVE UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE WORKING IN THEM.

THEY'RE EXPLOITING CHILD LABOR, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THESE HUMAN BEINGS.

>> CONGRESSMAN GONZALEZ, YOUR TAKE.

>> YEAH, JOHN, TODAY WE HAD A HEARING, I SIT ON THE APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE AND SECRETARY GNOME CAME BEFORE THE COMMITTEE AND LAST YEAR I SENT A LETTER TO ICE AND I ASKED ICE HOW MANY CONVICTED CRIMINAL ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE LOOSE IN THE COUNTRY.

THE NUMBER I GOT BACK WAS ASTONISHING, 662,566, A NUDGE NUMBER.

I ASKED THE SECRETARY HAS THE NUMBER INCREASED OR DECREASED.

HER ANSWER WAS THE NUMBER OF CONVICTED ILLEGAL ALIENS IN OUR COUNTRY HAS INCREASED SINCE LAST YEAR.

SO TO ME, YOU TACK TACKLE IT, YOU GO ALL IN AFTER THE BAD ACTORS.

I'M TALKING ABOUT SOMEBODY CONVICTED IN A COURT OF LAW.

THAT KEEPS OUR COMMUNITY SAFE WHEREVER YOU ARE AND THEN ON THE OTHER HAND, IF SOMEBODY IS COMING LEER TO WORK, I THINK YOU OPEN UP WORK VISAS.

YOU STREAMLINE PROCESS.

THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO VOTING OR SOCIAL SERVICES.

THEY HAVE ACCESS TO A JOB AND GUESS WHAT I THINK THAT THRIVES IN OUR ECONOMY.

I THINK THAT HELPS OUR NEIGHBORS.

I THINK IT DOES A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS BUT THOSE ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

IF YOU ARE A CONVICTED CRIMINAL ALIEN, WE ARE COMING AFTER YOU TO KEEP OUR STREETS SAFE.

IF YOU ARE HERE TO WORK, YOU KNOW, COME ON DOWN.

>> QUICK QUESTION FOR YOU BOTH VERY BRIEF ANSWER IF YOU WILL, PLEASE.

AND THAT IS IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE AND ENSURE THAT DUE PROCESS IS BEING GIVEN TO EVERYONE, EVEN IF THEY'RE HERE ILLEGALLY, WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH INCREASING EXES POE NENGSLY THE NUMBER OF IMMIGRATION JUDGES AVAILABLE TO HEAR THE CASES?

>> THAT IS EXACTLY THE SECRET SAUCE.

DURING PREVIOUS-- EVERY ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE THIS, PRESIDENT BUSH, CLINTON, OBAMA, BIDEN FAILED TO DO IT BUT TRUMP 1 AND THAT'S, THEY HAVE THESE DIFFERENT PROGRAMS.

ONE OF THEM, THEY HAD WAS CALLED THE PACER PROGRAM.

AND WHAT THIS DOES IS IT SURGES IMMIGRATION JUDGES AND PEOPLE GET THEIR CASES HEARD IN DAYS NOT YEARS MUCH THAT'S EXACTLY HOW YOU SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

>> CONGRESSMAN JACKSON QUICKLY.

>> MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE MORE JUDGES THAT YOU CAN DEAL WITH IT AND EVERYONE SHOULD BE AFFORDED DUE PROCESS OF THE LAW.

I WANT TO SEE EACH HUMAN BEING RESPECTED AND WE CAN DO THIS IN AN ORDERLY PROCESS.

Mr. TRUMP SAYS EVERYTHING IS AN EMERGENCY, FROM TARIFFS TO BORDERS TO SOCIAL SECURITY, IT'S NOT.

HE IS THE ONE THAT IS BREAKING THINGS AND THEN DECIDING THAT HE HAS TO HAVE THESE DRACONIAN AND DRASTIC MEASURES TO STOP PEOPLE AND LET US STOP THE RELATIONSHIP WITH THAT GOD AWFUL PRISON IN EL SALVADOR.

WE CAN DEAL WITH THIS DOMESTICALLY.

WE DON'T HAVE TO SHIP PEOPLE TO RWANDA OR EL SALVADOR.

IT'S WRONG.

>> THANK YOU CONGRESSMEN.

BOTH OF YOU, A WONDERFUL CONVERSATION.

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS COMMONALITIES HERE AND WE APPRECIATE THAT.

>> TAKE CARE.

TIME NOW FOR MY TAKE.

>> FOR 20 YEARS I WAS A FEDERAL ORGANIZED CRIME PROSECUTOR GOING AFTER CARTELS, NOT JUST IN THE UNITED STATES BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

AND IN THAT CAPACITY, I HAD A BIRD'S EYE VIEW OF IMMIGRATION LAWS IN GENERAL AND THE BORDER SECURITY IN PARTICULAR.

IT WAS A REAL PROBLEM THEN AND IT'S STILL A REAL PROBLEM.

BUT I GOT TO CONGRESS AND EVENTUALLY BECAME HEAD OF THE HARVARD UNIVERSITY HOMELAND SECURITY I GOT THE DAY TO DAY KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH THE BORDER AND THE SECURITY IMPLICATIONS RELATED TO IT.

AND THAT'S WHY THIS IS SUCH A BIG ISSUE NOW.

IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CONSTANT TENSION BETWEEN THE BALANCING OF THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS OF OUR CONSTITUTION WHETHER YOU ARE A CITIZEN OR NOT AND KEEPING THE PUBLIC SAFETY.

THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

THAT'S WHAT BIDEN WORKED STRUGGLED WITH AND THAT'S WHAT TRUMP IS STRUGGLING WITH NOW.

AND THAT'S WHAT AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING WITH IN THEIR MIND.

ONE THING WE CAN'T DO.

WE CAN'T IGNORE THE RULE OF LAW.

THE RULE OF LAW MATTERS.

AND THE LAW IS PEOPLE NEED HEARINGS.

SO EITHER GET MORE JUDGES, EXPEDITE THE HEARINGS OR CHANGE THE LAW.

EITHER WAY, WE CAN'T IGNORE THE LAW BECAUSE THAT'S AMERICA.

WHEN YOU START IGNORING LAWS, THAT'S WHEN PROBLEMS REALLY START HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY.

I'M JOHN KATKO AND THAT'S MY TAKE.

JOINING US NOW IS ALISA PARENTI TO SHARE WHAT'S HAPPENING NEXT WEEK IN WASHINGTON.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S TRADE WAR IS CONTINUING AND HE IS RAMPING UP THE RHETORIC.

HE SAID I DON'T NEED TO SIGN ANY TRADE DEALS.

THE COUNTRIES WE ARE NEGOTIATING WITH ARE THE ONES WHO HAVE A VESTED INTEREST IN GETTING OUR DOLLARS.

THEY WANT OUR MARKETS AND ACCESS TO THEM.

SO HE IS SAYING, DON'T ASK ME, HE RECENTLY SAID TO REPORTERS.

DON'T ASK ME WHEN I'M GOING TO SIGN A TRADE DEAL OR WITH WHOM I WILL BE SIGNING THESE TRADE DEALS.

WE ARE LAYING DOWN A NUMBER TO THE INDIAS, JAPANS, SOUTH KOREAS, WE ARE GOING TO LAY DOWN A NUMBER AND SAY HERE WHAT IS WE REQUIRE YOU TO DO WITH REGARD TO THE PRODUCTS THAT YOU ARE IMPORTING FROM THE UNITED STATES.

THEY WILL ACCEPT THAT DEAL OR THEY WILL NOT.

THE MARKETS HAVE NOT BEEN BIG FANS OF THAT PARTICULAR HARD LINE STANCE.

>> SO, YEAH, I GUESS WITH RESPECT TO THE MARKETS, THAT'S THE QUESTION.

IS THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF UNCERTAINTY WITH RESPECT TO IS TARIFF POLICIES, SO HOW IS THAT IMPACTING THE MARKETS?

>> IT HAS BEEN A STEADY SLIDE SOUTH.

WE HAVE SEEN MAJOR SELLOFFS SINCE JANUARY.

WE TRACK THAT, OF COURSE, THAT'S WHAT WE DO HERE AT BLOOMBERG, THE DOW DOWN ABOUT 4% SINCE JANUARY.

THE NASDAQ COMPOSITE, THIS IS OF COURSE, THE TECH HEAVY BENCHMARK, IT'S DOWN 8% SINCE JANUARY AND THE S&P 500, ONE OF THE WIDER INDICES THAT WE TRACK, IS DOWN ALMOST 5% SINCE JANUARY.

SO SUBSTANTIAL LOSSES AND IT'S BROAD BASED ACROSS THE BOARD.

>> STAY TUNED WITH THAT.

WE HAVE TO SWITCH GEARS A BIT AND QUICKLY ASK YOU ABOUT CAPITOL HILL.

WHAT IS GOING UP ON THE HILL THIS WEEK.

>> WELL, WE ARE IN THE THICK OF BUDGET NEGOTIATIONS AND THE RECONCILIATION PROCESS.

SPEAKER JOHNSON ON THE HOUSE SIDE HAS TALKED ABOUT THIS AS THE MOST IMPORTANT MOST CONSEQUENTIAL LEGISLATION OF OUR LIFETIME SO NO PRESSURE THERE.

HE IS DEALING WITH COMPETING FAXES WITHIN HIS OWN PARTY.

SO TYPICALLY WHEN WE SEE ON CAPITOL HILL A FIGHT BETWEEN THE REPUBLICANS AND THE DEMOCRATS, BUT THIS IS VERY MUCH A FIGHT WITHIN THE G.O.P.

CONSERVATIVES LOOKING FOR SOME DEEP, DEEP SPENDING CUTS AND THEN MODERATES, A LITTLE BIT CONCERNED THAT WE MAY BE CUTTING INTO BONE WITH HOW DEEPLY THEY'RE LOOKING TO ELIMINATE WASTE AND FRAUD MUCH THAT'S KIND OF BEEN THE CATCH PHRASE.

ON THE SENATE SIDE, MAJORITY LEADER THUNE OR DEALING WITH A VERY SIMILAR SITUATION.

HE HAS GOT CONSERVATIVES DEMANDING ONE TRILLION DOLLARS IN SPENDING CUTS, MODERATES ON THAT SIDE REFUSING TO CUT INTO MEDICAID.

SO WE ARE HEARING THAT WE MIGHT HAVE PASSAGE ON THE HOUSE SIDE BY THE BEGINNING OF THE SUMMER.

ON THE SENATE SIDE, BY JULY 4.

WANT TO ALSO MENTION THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP'S SKINNY BUDGET WAS OFFERED UP LATER THAN TYPICALLY IS THE CASE.

USUALLY COMES IN FEBRUARY.

THIS YEAR IT WAS MORE LIKE MAY.

AND IT WAS SKINNY IN THAT LACKING IN KIND OF DETAILS AND FILLED OUT INFORMATION.

SOME OF THAT WE MIGHT GET WITHIN THE COMING WEEKS.

AND THIS IS, OF COURSE, A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS, VERY ANXIOUS TO ENACT HIS AGENDA.

>> THAT'S WHY THEY CALL IT SAUSAGE MAKING, I GUESS.

THANKS AGAIN FROM BLOOM BLOOMBERG NEWS.

SEE YOU NEXT TIME.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US•AND REMEMBER, IN THE CIRCUS THAT IS POLITICS, THERE'S ALWAYS A BALANCING ACT.

I'M JOHN KATKO.

WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT TIME, AMERICA.