AS NEW YORK'S ECONOMY COMES BACK TO LIFE FOLLOWING THE SHUTDOWN AND STAGNATION CAUSED BY THE PANDEMIC, THERE IS A RENEWED CONVERSATION ABOUT THE BENEFITS AND PROTECTIONS AFFORDED THE STATE'S WORKFORCE.

FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT SHOULD THE UPSTATE MINIMUM WAGE BE?

WHAT RIGHTS SHOULD INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS HAVE?

WE'LL TAKE UP THOSE QUESTIONS - AND MORE - NEXT, ON CONNECT NEW YORK.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO CONNECT, NEW YORK.

I'M DAVID LOMBARDO, HOST OF THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM, FILLING IN FOR DAVE CHANANTRY.

LATER IN THE SHOW, WE'LL CONSIDER WHAT ENHANCED COMPENSATION REQUIREMENTS COULD MEAN FOR THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY AND THEN WE'LL BE JOINED BY A PANEL OF ECONOMIC STAKEHOLDERS TO DISCUSS A RANGE OF WORKFORCE PROPOSALS UNDER CONSIDERATION AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

BUT FIRST, WE'RE GOING TO CONSIDER THIS TOPIC FROM THE SMALL BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, AND TO DO THAT WE'RE JOINED BY ASSEMBLY SMALL BUSINESS COMMITTEE CHAIR AL STIRPE, A SYRACUSE-AREA DEMOCRAT.

WELCOME TO THE SHOW, ASSEMBLYMAN.

THANK YOU FOR MAKING THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> >> I MENTIONED AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW THAT THE PANDEMIC HAS BEEN AN OPPORTUNITY FOR A LOT OF REFLECTION, SO I'M INTERESTED IF - FROM YOUR PERCH AS CHAIR OF THE ASSEMBLY'S SMALL BUSINESS COMMITTEE - YOU'VE HAD ANY SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT COMPENSATION FOR WORKERS OR MAYBE THE EXPERIENCE HAS REINFORCED IDEAS YOU ALREADY HAD: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK THE PANDEMIC HAS MADE MANY THINGS MUCH CLEARER TO BOTH BUSINESS AND LABOR.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE BOTTOM LINE IS, I THINK PRE-PANDEMIC, ESPECIALLY IN CERTAIN INDUSTRIES, RESTAURANTS AND RETALL, EMPLOYERS THOUGHT OF EMPLOYEES AS MORE LIKE WIDGETS.

AND YOU KNOW, IF WE NEED THEM, WE'LL CALL THEM AND IF IT'S NOT BUSY, WE'LL SEND THEM HOME AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

WE FOUND OUT THAT, YOU KNOW, EVEN RESTAURANT WORKERS ARE ESSENTIAL EMPLOYEES.

THEY SPENT THE MAJORITY OF THE PANDEMIC IN THE KITCHENS WORKING, BRINGING CURB SIDE FOOD OUT TO PEOPLE, TRYING TO KEEP THINGS AS NORMAL AS POSSIBLE FOR EVERYBODY.

AND I THINK THEY DID A GREAT JOB AND WE SHOULD BE VERY GRATEFUL TO THEM.

AND WHAT THAT HAS, I THINK, TAUGHT US, IS THAT THEY'RE PEOPLE, THEY HAVE LIVES OUTSIDE OF WORK.

THEY HAVE CHILDREN.

THEY HAVE COMMITMENTS, RESPONSIBILITIES TO PAY THINGS SO WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY GET PAID FAIRLY AND AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, SUBMINIMUM WAGE OR THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK WE MIGHT HAVE TO RETHINK THAT.

BUT THE THING THAT MAKES THAT MOST COMPLICATED IS THAT THE WORKERS ARE NOT EVEN IN AGREEMENT ON THAT.

IF YOU GO TO A FINE DINING ESTABLISHMENT, THOSE WAIT STAFFS, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN WORK A FOUR HOUR SHIFT AND MAKE 300 TO 400 IN TIPS.

THEY'RE CERTAINLY NOT LOOKING TO GIVE THAT UP.

BUT IN THE REST OF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE DIFFICULT AND THINGS LIKE TIP POOLING, THAT'S DONE IN CALIFORNIA, IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO LOOK AT.

I MEAN WE'VE EVEN HAD PLACES IN NEW YORK CITY NOT ALLOW TIPS ANYMORE AND BUILD THAT RIGHT INTO THE PRICE OF THE FOOD.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE DISAGREEMENT ABOUT THE TIP MINIMUM WAGE WIN THE INDUSTRYth AND I THINK THAT WAS HIGHLIGHTED BY WILL DEPARTMENT OF LABOR HEARINGS THAT THE CUOMO ADMINISTRATION HAD A COUPLE YEARS AGO WHERE THEY WERE CONSIDERING WHETHER THEY WOULD UNILATERALLY RAISE THE TIP MINIMUM WAGE THEMSELVES.

ULTIMATELY WHAT THEY DID WAS RAISE THE TIP MINIMUM WAGE FOR EVERYONE WHO GETS A TIP MINIMUM WAGE OUTSIDE OF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY.

AS YOU THINK OF THIS ISSUE MOVING FORWARD, HOW DO YOU DECIDE THE BEST WAY FORWARD?

IS IT A SERIES OF HEARINGS?

ARE WE GOING TO HAVE TO JUMP AND LEAP AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS?

WHAT DO YOU DO?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S REALLY GOING TO HAVE TO DEPEND A LOT ON THE RESTAURANTS THEMSELVES.

I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS BECAUSE IF YOU TALK TO ANY RESTAURANT PERSON RIGHT NOW, THEY TELL YOU HOW HARD IT IS TO FIND WORKERS.

THE SUMMER BROUGHT SOME RELIEF BECAUSE THE COLLEGE KIDS CAME BACK AND AS FAR AS WAIT STAFF, THEY SORT OF FILLED A LOT OF THOSE GAPS BUT THE KITCHEN STAFF IS STILL AN ISSUE THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH.

SO I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THAT THEY CAN ATTRACT EMPLOYEES AND KEEP EMPLOYEES AND, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T REALLY DO A ONE SIZE FITS ALL APPROACH WHEN IT COMES TO THESE FOLKS.

AND IT REALLY, AGAIN, IS GOING TO COME BACK ON TO THE RESTAURANT OWNERS.

>> WELL, TURNING THEN TO THE TRADITIONAL MINIMUM WAGE, WHICH IS NOW AT $12.50 IN UPSTATE NEW YORK AS OF DECEMBER 31 OF LAST YEAR, NOW THE CUOMO ADMINISTRATION HAS THE ABILITY, THE DIVISION OF BUDGET, TO UNILATERALLY RAISE THAT RATE POTENTIALLY UP TO $15 AN HOUR.

THEY CAN DO IT THIS YEAR.

THEY CAN DO IT OVER MANY YEARS.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THEM GO ABOUT THAT PROCESS?

BECAUSE IN THE PAST, SAY WHEN THEY WENT UP TO $12.50, DOB PUT OUT A STATEMENT SAYING ECONOMIC CONDITIONS ARE OKAY FOR THIS.

IS THAT ALL YOU WANT TO SEE FROM D.O.B.

MOVING FORWARD, SHOULD THERE BE MORE EXTENSIVE HEARINGS?

AND IN TERMS OF THE PACE OF GETTING TO $15 AN HOUR, IS IT SOMETHING YOU THINK WE ARE READY TO DO RIGHT NOW MAYBE IN UPSTATE?

>> I DON'T THINK WE ARE READY RIGHT NOW.

I MEAN I GUESS I'M SPEAKING AS CHAIR OF SMALL BUSINESS AND, YOU KNOW, REACHING OUT AND TALKING TO A LOT OF THOSE FOLKS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY IS GOING TO DEPEND ON THE DATA.

SO IF COSTS CONTINUE TO GO UP, I'M ASSUMING MINIMUM WAGE WILL HAVE TO GO UP AT SOME POINT.

WHETHER IT GOES UP TO $15 AN HOUR OVER THE NEXT THREE YEARS, FIVE YEARS OR 10 YEARS, IS GOING TO DEPEND ON THAT.

SO YOU KNOW, THE COST OF LIVING IN NEW YORK CITY AND THE 12-COUNTY METRO AREA IS A LOT HIGHER THAN IT IS HERE IN SYRACUSE.

AND $15 AN HOUR IS STILL A STRUGGLE FOR PEOPLE DOWN THERE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S QUITE AS BAD UP HERE.

BUT STILL, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE PAYING PEOPLE MORE THAN $12.50 THAT USED TO PAY JUST MINIMUM WAGE BECAUSE THE FACT THAT IT'S HARD TO GET PEOPLE TO COME AND WORK FOR 12.50 AN HOUR.

>> I MENTION THE PROCESS THAT NEW YORK HAS NOW IN TERMS OF GETTING POTENTIALLY TO $15 UPSTATE.

DOES THAT PROCESS MAKE SENSE TO YOU?

SHOULD WE BE EXAMINING THIS EVERY YEAR POTENTIALLY?

SHOULD THIS BE AUTOMATICALLY TRIGGERED BY INFLATION?

SHOULD IT BE TIED TO OTHER METRICS OR DO YOU LIKE HAVING THE LEGISLATURE AND GOVERNOR POTENTIALLY WITH THE AUTHORITY TO RAISE THIS ON THEIR OWN?

>> I THINK WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN EVERY YEAR WHEN WE ARE OUT OF SESSION, WE DO OUR HEARINGS AND ROUNDTABLES AND THINGS.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHERE WE ARE GOING TO GET THE INFORMATION FROM BOTH EMPLOYEES AND EMPLOYERS OF HOW THINGS ARE OUT IN THE REAL WORLD.

SO I THINK THAT HAS TO PLAY A BIG PART IN INFORMATION THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR MIGHT LOOK AT AS FAR AS WHETHER OR NOT THEY'RE GOING TO RAISE IT.

YOU CAN'T ASSUME THAT THEY'RE NEVER GOING TO RAISE IT JUST BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, A BUSINESS SAYS THAT'S GOING TO BE A HARDSHIP BECAUSE THEY'RE PEOPLE AND THEY NEED TO LIVE AND PAY THEIR BILLS AND EVERYTHING.

SO I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A GRADUAL INCREASE BUT I THINK IT'S DEFINITELY GOING TO GO UP.

>> AND YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENT COST OF LIVING SAY IN THE NEW YORK CITY AREA VERSUS UPSTATE AND REALLY IF YOU HAMMER DOWN INTO THIS EVEN MORE, THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENCES.

YOU HAVE POTENTIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE WHO ARE IN HIGH SCHOOL AND COLLEGE WHO MIGHT END UP MAKING $15 AN HOUR VERSUS A PARENT TRYING TO SUPPORT A FAMILY ON $15 AN HOUR.

DO WE NEED EVEN MORE FLEXIBILITY WITHIN THE MINIMUM WAGE OR DOES THAT CREATE ITS OWN HEADACHES WITH POTENTIALLY THEN YOU TRY TO HAVE BUSINESSES WHO ARE HIRING PEOPLE AT THE LOWER MINIMUM WAGE OF A TIERED SYSTEM?

>> LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, I HAVE SOME KIDS AND THEY WORKED WHEN MINIMUM WAGE WAS $7.25.

>> SO THEY'RE YOUNGER THAN ME BECAUSE I WAS MAKING LESS THAN THAT AT ONE POINT.

>> THEY HAD TO GO TO COLLEGE AND THEY HAD TO SAVE UP FOR COLLEGE.

AND SOME OF THOSE COLLEGES COST $50, $60,000 A YEAR.

THEY HAD TO TAKE OUT LOANS AND DO ALL THAT.

SO WHEN PEOPLE TELL ME THAT KIDS SHOULDN'T MAKE THE SAME AS ADULTS, I MEAN IT DEPENDS WHAT ARE THOSE KIDS GOING TO DO?

EVERYBODY HAS TO COME OUT AND EITHER THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO SCHOOL OR THEY'RE STARTING THEIR CAREER AND THEY NEED TO BUY A HOME, BUY A CAR, DO THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND EVERYTHING COSTS MORE.

SO SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, A 16 OR 17-YEAR-OLD KID SHOULD ONLY BE MAKING 7:25 OR 8.50 OR $10 AN HOUR DOESN'T SWAY ME THAT MUCH.

>> I WANT TO TURN TO ANOTHER ISSUE AND SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED IN YOUR FIRST ANSWER ABOUT HOW WORKERS WERE AT THE WHIMS OF THEIR EMPLOYERS.

THAT TALKS ABOUT THIS ISSUE OF ON CALL SCHEDULING.

ANOTHER ISSUE THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR HELD HEARINGS ABOUT AND THEY WERE GOING TO POTENTIALLY ISSUE NEW REGULATIONS ON, AND THEN AT THE LAST MINUTE, SAID NO, WE ARE GOING TO KICK THE BALL OVER TO THE LEGISLATURE AND LET THEM TAKE THE LEAD ON THIS.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE NEED FOR POTENTIAL REFORM OF THE ON CALL REGULATIONS, POTENTIALLY EITHER GUARANTEEING HOURS OR EVEN JUST GUARANTEEING WAGES FOR PEOPLE, EVEN ON DAYS MAYBE WHERE THEY WILL NOT END UP WORKING?

>> WELL, THERE IS ANOTHER COMPLICATED ISSUE AND IT'S NOT-- IT IS BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF BUSINESSES; ESPECIALLY SEASONAL BUSINESSES, WEATHER RELATED BUSINESSES.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT FOR THOSE PARTICULAR BUSINESSES.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHY-- I MEAN IT WAS BACK IN 17 AND 18, WHEN WE HAD ALL THE HEARINGS AND DID ALL THE WORK ON THAT.

AND THAT'S WHY THEY KIND OF PULLED THE PLUG ON MAKING ANY CHANGES BECAUSE IT WAS SO DIFFICULT.

BUT I MEAN CURRENTLY RIGHT NOW, IF YOU SHOW UP FOR WORK IN NEW YORK STATE, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GET PAID AT LEAST FOUR HOURS EVEN IF THEY SEND YOU HOME.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO GO.

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE ANY CHANGES, I THINK THEY HAVE TO BE VERY SPECIFIC.

WHAT DO YOU DO FOR SNOW PLOW DRIVERS?

HAVE YOU TO WAIT FOR THE SNOW.

I HAD A ROUNDTABLE AND THE GUY FROM SEABREEZE IN ROCHESTER SAID, YOU KNOW, WHEN IT RAINS AND STUFF, WE DON'T HAVE ANYBODY SHOW UP AT SEABREEZE, SO WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH ALL THE EMPLOYEES?

HE SAID I CAN'T TELL THEM 72 HOURS IN ADVANCE WHETHER IT'S GOING RAIN OR NOT REALLY.

SO I THINK IF WE GO INDUSTRY BY INDUSTRY, WE CAN MAKE SOME CHANGES.

I THINK THE RETAIL INDUSTRY IN PARTICULAR, YOU KNOW, IT WAS LOOKED AT AS KIND OF A WAY TO UTILIZE LOW WAGE WORKERS TO KIND OF BALANCE YOUR BOOKS FOR YOU.

AND AGAIN, THESE PEOPLE HAVE CHILD CARE RESPONSIBILITIES, HAVE TO PAY THE RENT OR THE MORTGAGE AND STUFF LIKE THAT.

SO IT'S NOT REALLY FAIR THAT THEY'RE SITTING BY THE PHONE WAITING FOR YOU TO CALL AND IF YOU CALL AND THEY CAN'T GO NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN, THEY'RE EITHER GOING TO LOSE THEIR JOB OR THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET AS MANY SHIFTS GOING FORWARD.

SO HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL, I THINK, WITH THAT.

AGAIN, I THINK WHAT THE PANDEMIC HAS SHOWED US IS THAT EMPLOYERS ARE NOW PAYING MORE ATTENTION.

AND THEY'RE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR EMPLOYEES NOT COMING TO WORK ANYMORE.

SO THEY'RE GOING TO BEND OVER A LITTLE BIT MORE NOW THAN THEY'VE EVER DONE BEFORE, I THINK.

AND HOPEFULLY THAT WILL MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR EVERYBODY.

>> I'M GLAD YOU MENTIONED OR, I GUESS ACKNOWLEDGED THE CONTROVERSY SURROUNDING ON CALL SCHEDULING IN TERMS OF JUST HOW POLITICAL PLI CHALLENGING IT IS WITH ALL THESE DIFFERENT PARTS.

WITH THAT SORT OF BACKDROP, I'M CURIOUS, IS THERE ANY SORT OF CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW IN THE CAPITOL AROUND SOMETHING LIKE ON CALL SCHEDULING OR, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A HOT TOPIC, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE NUCLEAR, DO PEOPLE JUST HOPE IT SORT OF PASSES OFF TO THE SIDE AND WE DON'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT?

>> TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST, WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED IT A LOT DURING THE PANDEMIC.

I MEAN THERE WERE MANY OTHER THINGS THAT WERE EMERGENCIES THAT WERE REALLY-- >> ONE OR TWO.

>> THAT WE WERE ATTENDING TO.

BUT I HAVE A FEELING THAT, AGAIN, AFTER LABOR DAY WHEN WE GO OUT AND DO A LOT OF OUR PUBLIC HEARINGS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, I THINK THAT ISSUE IS GOING TO COME UP AGAIN.

AND I HOPE THAT BUSINESS OWNERS THEMSELVES PARTICIPATE IN A BIG WAY IN THIS AND TELL US WHAT THEY'RE THINKING OF DOING FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES, TRYING TO MITIGATE SOME OF THE DOWNSIDE OF ON CALL STUFF.

I MEAN IF YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO COME IN AND GET TWO SHIFTS AND THEN THEY CALL UP AND CANCEL TWO SHIFTS ON YOU, YOU ARE NOT MAKING MONEY.

AND IT'S A REAL HARDSHIP FOR SOMEBODY IN THAT POSITION.

SO AGAIN I THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO HOPEFULLY GET THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO STEP UP AND HELP OUT WITH THIS.

>> WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION SOLELY THROUGH THE LENS OF WHAT THE STATE GOVERNMENT CAN DO.

ARE YOU EVER FRUSTRATED BY THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION... >> YES.

>> YOU SEE WHERE I'M GOING.

NEW YORK CAN INCREASE THE MINIMUM WAGE, CAN MAKE THINGS MORE EXPENSIVE AND THEN HAVE YOU TO COMPETE WITH A NEIGHBORING STATE.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THIS WHOLE CONVERSATION ELEVATED TO THE FEDERAL LEVEL?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IF YOU LOOK AT EVERY ISSUE THAT WE ARE OR DEALING WITH THAT IS AT A CRISIS POINT, WHETHER IT'S GUN CONTROL, IMMIGRATION, YOU KNOW, MINIMUM WAGE, ANYTHING.

IT PITS ONE STATE AGAINST ANOTHER AND THAT'S JUST THE WRONG WAY TO RUN THIS THING.

IT WOULD BE A LOT BETTER IF WE HAD SOME FEDERAL PARTICIPATION AND THERE WAS SOME COURAGE ON THE PART OF OUR FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION AND LEGISLATORS TO TACKLE SOME OF THESE ISSUES.

I MEAN THEY'RE TOUGH ISSUES.

I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU CAN'T KEEP KICKING THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD.

>> ASSUMING THAT COURAGE IS NOT GOING TO BE HANDED OUT LIKE THE WIZARD OF OZ ANY TIME SOON, WHAT ABOUT A REGIONAL APPROACH?

THE GOVERNOR HAS INDICATED HE WANTS TO DO THE SAME THING WITH MARIJUANA WITH MASSACHUSETTS AND PENNSYLVANIA.

IS THERE ANY WAY WE CAN CREATE A NORTHEAST REGIONAL REGULATIONS OR AM I JUST DREAMING HERE?

>> WELL, I THINK WE COULD ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES.

I MEAN WE DID IT WITH POLLUTION WHERE WE HAVE A COOPERATIVE OF STATES THAT HAVE YOU TO PAY IN FOR THE AMOUNT OF POLLUTION.

REGGIE SYSTEM.

AND YOU KNOW, THEY'RE GOING TO DO IT, I THINK, WITH MARIJUANA.

BUT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THEY COULD DO IF THEY REALLY WANTED TO WORK TOGETHER.

SOME STATES HAVE AN ADVANTAGE, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A LOWER MINIMUM WAGE OR THEY HAVE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT IS MAKING INDUSTRY GO TO THEIR STATE SO IT'S HARD TO GET THEM TO GIVE THAT UP SOMETIMES.

BUT IN THE LONG RUN, I THINK THAT WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER OPTION.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE HAVE BEEN SPEAKING WITH ASSEMBLYMAN AL STIRPE, SYRACUSE AREA DEMOCRAT AND CHAIR OF THE ASSEMBLY SMALL BUSINESS COMMITTEE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME AND SEEING YOU IN PERSON.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> AND NOW WE'LL TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY THANKS TO A PACKAGE PUT TOGETHER BY OUR WCNY PRODUCERS WHO SPOKE WITH A RESTAURANT OWNER IN ALBANY AND A FORMER RESTAURANT WORKER FROM BUFFALO TO FIND OUT IF THE TIPPED MINIMUM WAGE IN NEW YORK STATE IS WORKING FOR ALL PARTIES IN THE RESTAURANT BUSINESS.

>> WE HAVE TO GIVE WORKING PEOPLE THAT VIEW NAT THEY WORK HARD, THEY CAN HAVE A BETTER LIFE AND THEIR KIDS CAN HAVE A BETTER LIFE THAN THEM.

AND WHEN YOU WORK AT SUBSIS TANS WAGES, YOU CAN'T DO IT.

>> IN NEW YORK, RESTAURANT WORKER-- TIPPED RESTAURANT WORKERS EARN 66% OF THE WAGE.

THEY STRUGGLE WITH TWICE THE POVERTY RATE OF THE REST OF THE U.S.

WORKFORCE.

THEY USE FOOD STAMPS AT DOUBLE THE RATE OF OTHER WORKERS AND SUFFER FROM THE HIGHEST RATES OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT OF ANY INDUSTRY BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO TOLERATE UNAPPROPRIATE CUSTOMER BEHAVIOR TO FEED THEIR FAMILIES IN TIPS.

>> I'M DOMINICK, OWNER AND ONE DIRECTOR HERE IN DOWNTOWN ALBANY.

DIRECTOR OF THE NEW YORK RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION.

>> COST OF OPERATING A RESTAURANT, TWO BIGGEST COST ARE LABOR AND COST OF GOODS.

ABOUT 95% OF EVERY DOLLAR THAT COMES INTO A RESTAURANT GOES RIGHT BACK OUT.

>> INCREASE IN MINIMUM WAGE WOULD BE PRESSURE ON BUSINESS OWNERS TO, WELL, THEY HAVE TO COMPLY TO INCREASE THE WAGE AND THAT WOULD RAISE COSTS.

THAT CAN BE TAKEN OUT OF PROFITS, FOR EXAMPLE, BUT SOME OF THESE MIGHT ALSO BE PASSED ON TO CONSUMERS.

IN SHORT, IT IS AN INCREASE IN COSTS.

>> AT THIS TIME, RESTAURANTS, MANY OF THEM, ARE SAYING THERE IS NO WAY TO FULLY REOPEN BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH WORKERS.

>> MY NAME IS KAY, I'M A FORMER RESTAURANT WORKER.

I WORKED IN THE INDUSTRY FOR ABOUT SIX YEARS AND I JUST STOPPED LAST WEEK.

MY TIP MONEY WAS ESSENTIALLY HOW I PAID FOR EVERYTHING EXCEPT FOR MY RENT AND THE WAY THAT I BUDGETED, IT IS NO THE A FUN THING TO GO INTO WORK AND KNOW THAT WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO BUY GROCERIES DEPENDS ON WHETHER PEOPLE THINK THAT YOU ARE NICE ENOUGH OR CUTE ENOUGH OR WHETHER YOU ARE DEMURE WHEN SOMEONE IS SCREAMING IN YOUR FACE.

>> IF WE ARE GOING TO DISCUSS RAISING THE TIP WAGES, WE HAVE TO DISCUSS THE STRUCTURE OF HOW TIPS WORK.

TIP EMPLOYEES TEND TO BE THE HIGHEST PEOPLE IN THE RESTAURANT.

I THINK IT'S A CONVERSATION BUT NOT JUST OKAY, WE ARE GOING TO PAY EVERYBODY $15, INCLUDING PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, MAKING 30 TO 40 AN HOUR TIPPED ALREADY.

>> NOT ONLY DID WE CREATE IMMENSE SUFFERING FOR THESE WORKERS DURING THE PANDEMIC, BASICALLY THEY HAVE SAID WE ARE DONE.

>> THE JOB THAT I HAD TWO YEARS AGO IS NOT THE SAME AS THE ONE I LEFT LAST WEEK.

CUSTOMERS ARE MORE DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH, ESPECIALLY BEFORE THE MASK REQUIREMENT WAS LIFTED.

I WAS CALLED A VARIETY OF SLURS, THINGS HAVE BEEN THROWN AT ME AND A COUPLE CUSTOMERS PUSHED ME.

AND THEN THERE IS A LOT MORE WORK ON TOP OF EVERYTHING.

WE HAVE FEWER STAFF MEMBERS, FEWER WELL TRAINED STAFF MEMBERS.

ADDITIONAL CLEANING TO TAKE ON AND OUR BUSINESS MODEL ALSO BECAME A LOT OF ONLINE AND DELIVERY ORDERS, WHICH IS NOT GENERALLY HOW WE WERE DOING THINGS.

>> WITH SO MUCH UNCERTAINTY WITH COVID, WHEN RESTAURANTS WERE SHUT DOWN IN 24 HOURS BY THE GOVERNMENT, I THINK PEOPLE REALIZE HOW UNSTABLE THIS INDUSTRY CAN BE.

AND A LOT OF THEM FOUND WORK ELSEWHERE.

>> PERCEPTIONS HAVE CHANGED, RIGHT?

WORKERS HAVE PREFERENCES OVER JOBS AND DIFFERENT TYPES OF JOBS.

>> I LEFT THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY FOR A LOT OF REASONS.

WE WERE REALLY, REALLY UNDERSTAFFED AND THE COMPANY WASN'T ADJUSTING HOURS OR WORK FLOW TO COMPENSATE FOR THAT SO WE WERE ALL EXPECTED TO PICK UP EVEN MORE SHIFTS AND OPEN UP OUR AVAILABILITY EVEN MORE.

>> THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY IS SYNONYMOUS FOR PEOPLE WHO WORK 50, 60, 70 HOUR WEEKS, MYSELF INCLUDED.

AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE REALIZING THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVING YOUR CALENDAR JAM PACKED WITH THINGS ALL DAY AND THEN HAVE YOU A VERY BUSY SERVICE AND IT'S 10:00 AND HAVE YOU NOTHING LEFT IN THE TANK YOURSELF, WE NEED TO RETHINK THAT.

>> IT'S ALSO JUST HARD WORK.

IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT TO NOT BE VIEWED AS A PERSON FOR EIGHT HOURS A DAY EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK.

IT'S HARD, PAINFUL WORK AND TAKES A BIG EMOTIONAL TOLL WHEN IT'S DONE IN THIS WAY.

>> WE SHOULDN'T BE THINKING ABOUT COMING BACK AS A RESTAURANT INDUSTRY UNLESS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A MORE SUSTAINABLE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY FOR EVERYBODY.

AND IN FACT, WORKERS ARE SAYING WE WON'T COME BACK.

>> ABOUT THE ONLY WAY THAT IN MY VIEW THAT RESTAURANT OWNERS AND THE INDUSTRY HAVE RIGHT NOW IN ORDER TO COMBAT THESE LABOR SHORTAGES IS TO TRY TO ALTER MORE-- OFFER MORE INCENTIVES.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT IS NEEDED IN THE SHORT RUN, IN THE TRANSITION PERIOD.

>> PEOPLE ARE SCRAMBLING TO CREATE A BETTER WORKFORCE ENVIRONMENT WHERE PEOPLE HAVE SECURITY.

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS, YOU DO BETTER WHEN YOU PAY PEOPLE MORE.

YOUR MARGINS ARE BETTER.

WHY?

BECAUSE A: YOU GET QUALIFIED WORKERS WHO DO GREAT SERVICE, GREAT FOOD.

YOUR TURNOVER GOES DOWN.

YOUR PRODUCTIVITY GOES UP.

YOUR FOOD AND SERVICE QUALITY GO UP AND CUSTOMER SPENDING INCREASES AS WELL.

SO IT'S A WIN-WIN.

>> I THINK IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT IS EITHER DONE FEDERALLY, BUT I THINK THE RESTAURANTS SHOULD BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

IF IT IS DONE AT A STATE LEVEL, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A STATE LIKE NEW YORK AND CONNECTICUT WHERE YOU ARE RESTAURANTS NEXT DOOR TO EACH OTHER.

THEY'RE CHASHING $5 FOR A BEER BUT $7 OVER HERE BUT SERVICE IS INCLUDED.

IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT.

>> SO MUCH OF THE EMPHASIS IS ON WAGES WHICH IS NOT UNIMPORTANT.

PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PAY THEIR BILLS AND SURVIVE BUT I THINK ESPECIALLY OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO, PEOPLE HAVE SEEN THAT THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT THEY WANT FROM LIFE.

PEOPLE WANT TO BE ABLE TO SPEND HOLIDAYS AND WEEKENDS WITH THEIR FAMILY.

THEY WANT MORE FLEXIBLE HOURS.

THEY WANT TO BE WORKING LESS.

>> A LOT OF MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES IN THIS INDUSTRY, A LOT OF ADDICTION.

THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT WE CAN LOOK AT TO MAKE THIS A KINDER MORE SENT GENTLE INDUSTRY.

>> IF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY WANTS TO HAVE GOOD WORKERS WHO ARE GOING TO STICK AROUND FOR A LONG TIME AND MAKE THOSE IMPORTANT CONNECTIONS WITH CUSTOMERS, BEING ABLE TO PROVIDE THAT SORT OF FLEXIBLE WORK ENVIRONMENT IN AWE WAY THAT IS ACTUALLY FLEXIBLE AND NOT COERCIVE THE WAY IT USUALLY IS, WOULD BE A STEP.

>> AND NOW WE ARE GOING TO EXPLORE THE WHOLE SPECTRUM OF EMPLOYEE BENEFIT ISSUES AND TO DO THAT WE ARE JOINED BY GRETCHEN PURSER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF SOCIOLOGY AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY; FRANK KERBEIN, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR HUMAN RESOURCES AT THE BUSINESS COUNCIL OF NEW YORK STATE; AND GREGORY LANCETTE, PRESIDENT OF CENTRAL-NORTHERN NEW YORK BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL.

I WANT TO START OUR CONVERSATION TALKING ABOUT 2019 WHERE GOVERNOR CUOMO PROPOSED A A TASK FORCE THAT WOULD EXAMINE THE BENEFITS AND PROTECTIONS AFFORDED TO NEW YORK'S INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS - MANY OF WHOM WORK IN THE SO-CALLED AND THAT MEANS RIGHTS AND BENEFIT AND THE IDEA WAS DEAD ON ARRIVAL.

LAWMAKERS HAVE THEN TRIED TO TAKE LEGISLATIVE STABS AT THIS A COUPLE OF TIMES.

THOSE PLANS WERE ALSO RADIOACTIVE.

I THINK THEY'RE BURIED IN THE ADD RON ADIRONDACKS WHERE NOBODY CAN SEE THEM OR TOUCH THEM.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE ISSUE AND RIGHTS AND BENEFITS THAT THEY SHOULD BE GETTING IN NEW YORK AND AROUND THE COUNTRY, WHERE DOES THAT CONVERSATION START FOR YOU?

>> THANKS FOR THE QUESTION.

I THINK THERE IS TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF POLITICS AROUND THE QUESTION OF EMPLOYMENT CLASSIFICATION OR LABOR CLASSIFICATION.

AND WHAT WE HAVE SEEN HIVE ARE INCREASINGLY INNOVATIVE WAYS FOR EMPLOYERS TO CLASSIFY WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER TO BE WORKERS AS SOMETHING OTHER THAN EMPLOYEES.

SO YOU SEE THAT PARTICULAR WILL I IN THE CASE OF INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS BUT IT'S FAR BROADER THAN THAT AS WELL.

SO YOU SEE A LOT OF KIND OF CONFLICT AROUND SIMILAR SITUATIONS LIKE, FOR INSTANCE, WORK FAIR CLIENTS, PEOPLE ON WORK FAIR, OR CLIENTS IN CERTAIN KINDS OF INDUSTRIES WHO ARE NOT RECOGNIZED AS EMPLOYEES.

SO I THINK THERE IS A HUGE PUSH, RIGHT, TO TRY TO FORCE EMPLOYERS TO RECOGNIZE THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE WORK FOR THEIR BUSINESSES ARE ACTUALLY EMPLOYEES AND NEED TO HAVE THE RIGHTS AND RECOGNITION THAT COME WITH THAT STATUS.

WHAT YOU SEE ON THE OTHER SIDE IS THAT COMPANIES LIKE UBER AND LYFT A LOT OF THIS IS ROLLED UP IN, ARE SPENDING MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST THESE ATTEMPTS TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE OF INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR STATUS.

>> FRANK, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT FRAMING OF THE DISCUSSION BECAUSE JUST SOME OF THE WORDS THAT THE PROFESSOR USED IN TERMS OF EMPLOYER ARE THINGS THAT UBER AND LYFT AND OTHER COMPANIES IN THE GIG ECONOMY ABOUT IT BALK AT.

>> THE THIRD PARTY INTERMEDIARIES INSTEAD OF EMPLOYERS.

I THINK WE ALL RECOGNIZE THE NATURE OF WORK HAS CHANGED OVER THE LAST 100 YEARS, RIGHT?

INNOVATION WAS THE KEY WORD I PICKED UP FROM THE PROFESSOR'S COMMENTS THERE AND TO APPLY IT, YOU KNOW, 19th OR 20th CENTURY DEFINITION OF EMPLOYEE TO THE NEW WORKFORCE DOESN'T BENEFIT ANYBODY.

DOESN'T BENEFIT THE WORKER LOOKING FOR THE FLEX FLEXIBILITY, FLEXIBILITY TO EARN EXTRA INCOME ON THEIR OWN, ENGAGE OR DISENGAGE AS THEY SEE FIT.

MERELY APPLYING THIS DEFINITION IS OFF BASE AND WE HAVE MENTIONED UBER AND LYFT AND LELINGS GIVE THEM CREDIT.

THEY'VE HAD MINIMUM GUARANTEED INCOME FOR THEIR DRIVERS, HEALTH INSURANCE PREMIUMS AVAILABLE TO THEM WE JUST SAW IN CALIFORNIA, 85 WAS THE BILL THAT APPLIED THE OLD DEFINITION TO ALL WORKERS WAS OVERWHELMINGLY OVERRULED THROUGH A PROPOSITION IN CALIFORNIA.

IT PROVIDED MILEAGE AND BASIC INCOME GUARANTEES.

THESE INNOVATIVES CCHTION, DOOR DASH, ALL THE COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT DO THIS, THEY CREATED THIS AMAZING NEW INDUSTRY, WE SAW HOW VAIT VITAL IT WAS DURING THE PANDEMIC.

LET'S GIVE THEM CREDIT.

THEY'RE COMING UP WITH AMAZING INNOVATIVE WAYS TO REWARD THEIR EMPLOYEES AS WELL AND TO APPLY THE OLD RULES TO THE NEW WORLDINGS PAROCHIAL.

>> THE ISSUE OF FLEXIBILITY BECAUSE BACK PRE-PANDEMIC WE HAD TWO RIDE HAILING DRIVERS ON THE CAPITOL PRESS ROOM AND THOSE WERE THE BUZZ WORDS THEY USED.

DON'T TAKE AWAY OUR FLEXIBILITY AND LAWMAKERS WANT TO REGULATE IT AND SAY THEY DON'T WANT TO TAKE AWAY THE FLEXIBILITY.

WE WANT TO YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO DO THIS AS A SIDE HUSTLE IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT.

IF YOU WANT TO DO THIS AS YOUR FULL TIME JOB, WE WANT TO YOU HAVE THAT.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE POTENTIAL REGULATIONS OR PROPOSED IDEAS THAT HAVE BEEN FLOATED THAT YOU THINK WOULD LIMIT FLEXIBILITY?

>> WE SAW IT WITH UBER, UBER'S REACTION, THE MONEY THEY SPENT IN CALIFORNIA FOR GOOD REASON.

IT WOULD HAVE DESTROYED THEIR BUSINESS MODEL.

IT'S A SYSTEM THAT WORKS ARRANGING CONTACTS TO AN INDIVIDUAL AND THOSE WHO WANT TO PROVIDE A SERVICE TO AN INDIVIDUAL.

SO THAT THE FACT THAT WE APPLY THIS OLD DEFINITION UBER THREATENED TO LEAVE CALIFORNIA AS A RESULT OF THE IMPASSE.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WOULD HAVE.

IT'S A PRETTY BIG STATE WITH A PRETTY BIG MARKET.

>> IF THEY WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT PREMIUMS, WORKER'S COMPENSATION PREMIUMS, THAT'S NOT A SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL FOR UBER AND LYFT AND APP BASED THINGS.

THIS IS NOT JUST UBER AND LYFT.

WE HAVE INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS, WRITERS WHO WERE THREATENED BY THIS.

THEY PUSHED BACK THE HARDEST.

YOU KNOW, PERSONAL SERVICE PROVIDERS WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPACTED.

>> YOU ARE COMING FROM THE WORLD OF ORGANIZED LABOR AND I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT MAYBE OLDER DEFINITIONS OF THE WAY WE THINK ABOUT EMPLOYEES, I THIS I WE THINK ABOUT KIND OF THE ORGANIZED LABOR APPROACH TO ALL THIS.

WHAT DO YOU THIS THINK ABOUT THE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR EMPLOYER DEFINITION ISSUE?

>> I THINK HAVE YOU TO LOOK AT THE SOURCE OF THE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTING MOVEMENT.

WHY WOULD EMPLOYERS INITIATE THAT TYPE OF HIRING PRACTICE AND A LOT OF IT IS TO AVOID THE RESTRICTIONS AND RULES GOVERNING EMPLOYER AND EMPLOYEE RELATIONS FROM THAT.

FROM THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY STANDPOINT SEEMS ATTRACTIVE TO THE YOUNGER WORKFORCE WHO GO OUT INTO THE 1099 WORLD AND WORKS AS AN INDEPENDENT EMPLOYER UNTIL THEY DO THEIR FIRST CYCLE OF TAXES.

>> 1099 REFERS TO THE TAX FILING, RIGHT, GOTCHA.

>> AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT CATCHES IT UP.

LIKE A CONTRACTOR OR BUSINESS OWNER THE OPPORTUNITY TO CATCH THE FIRST YEAR CONTRACTOR SO TO SPEAK AND THEY HAVEN'T DONE THEIR HOME WORK BEFOREHAND.

BUT THEN WHEN THE PANDEMIC HITS OR IF THEY GET INJURED ON A JOB, THEY FIND OUT THE HARD WAY SOMETIMES THAT THE PROTECTIONS OR PROVISIONS ARE NOT THERE FOR THEM THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THERE IF THEY WERE AN EMPLOYEE WORKING FOR THAT COMPANY.

>> THANK YOU,.

>> MISCLASSIFICATION OF EMPLOYEES IS A CRIME IN NEW YORK STATE.

I'VE SEEN MUGSHOTS OF EMPLOYERS WHO HAVE MISCLASSIFIED EMPLOYERS AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS WHEN THEY SHOULD BE EMPLOYEES.

NEW YORK HAS A LONG HISTORY AND CASE LAW.

WE DO NOT SUPPORT ANY BUSINESS THAT, YOU KNOW, TRIES TO SUBVERT THAT BY CALLING PEOPLE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS TO AVOID THE OBLIGATIONS WITH PROVIDEES.

NEW YORK STATE HAS A LONG STANDING TRADITION OF ENFORCING THAT.

IT'S WAGE THEFT IN NEW YORK.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS GREG MENTIONED IS THE ISSUE OF UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS AND SOMETHING YOU TALKED ABOUT WITH REGARDS TO CALIFORNIA.

WITH WE TALKED ABOUT RIDE HAILING DRIVERS, WE TALKED TO THEM PRE-PANDEMIC AND THEN ONCE THE PREP BEGAN, HE WAS RECEIVING UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS SOMETHING HE WOULD NOT HAVE RECEIVED PRE-PANDEMIC BUT WAS ABLE TO GET BECAUSE OF FEDERAL ACTION.

WHAT IS YOUR, YOU KNOW, TAKE ON WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED FROM THIS EXPERIENCE WITH THE PANDEMIC?

DOES THAT INDICATE THAT EITHER THE THIRD PARTY APPS OR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, SOMEONE NEEDS TO STEP UP AND COME UP WITH AN UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM FOR THESE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS, ESPECIALLY THE ONCE IN THE SO CALLED GIG ECONOMY.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHAT THE THIRD PARTY APPS HAVE DONE IS INGENIOUSLY RECONSTRUCTED THE EMPLOYER RELATIONSHIP.

THEY ARE EMPLOYERS AND WE NEED TO REGULATE THEM AS EMPLOYERS.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THEY CONTROL THE WAGE RATES AND THERE IS NO BUSINESS MODEL WITHOUT THE DRIVERS.

PERIOD.

LIKE THAT IS THE LABOR THAT DOES THE WORK OF THESE, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY THESE GIG EMPLOYERS.

I THINK WHAT WE SAW FROM THE PANDEMIC IS A NEED TO BUILD UP A REGULATORY SYSTEM TO BETTER SUPPORT WORKERS, PARTICULARLY ESSENTIAL WORKERS IN OUR SOCIETY.

FAR TOO MANY WORKERS, YOU KNOW, FIND THEMSELVES OUTSIDE OF THE SYSTEM ALL TOGETHER.

THEY'RE NOT ELIGIBLE FOR UNEMPLOYMENT.

THEY'RE AT THE WHIM OF THESE GIGS FROM DAY TO DAY.

AND YOU CAN'T PLAN A FUTURE UNDER THAT SITUATION IT'S VERY DYSTOPIAN TO THINK THAT COMPANIES LIKE UBER OR LYFT IS AN INGENIOUS MODEL FOR HOW WORK AND EMPLOYMENT IS GOING TO OPERATE TODAY.

>> FRANK, WHO DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT SAFETY NET THAT I MENTIONED?

SHOULD IT BE THE GOVERNMENT?

SHOULD THERE BE SOME SORT OF ACCOUNT THAT THEY'RE MAINTAINING WITH TAXPAYER MONEY OR IS THIS THE ISSUE WHERE IT SHOULD FALL ON THE EMPLOYER IN THIS CASE OR AND I HATE TO USE THE WORD EMPLOYER, BUT THE THIRD PARTY APPS.

>> WE'LL STIPULATE THAT.

RIGHT NOW THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE BENEFIT IS 100% PAID FOR BY EMPLOYERS, RIGHT?

SO THIS IS THE FUND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DESIGNED FOR EMPLOYEES WHO LOSE THEIR JOBS THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN.

THERE ARE FEDERAL REGULATIONS BECAUSE THERE ARE FEDERAL OVERSIGHTS OF EACH STATE'S FEDERAL UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE FUND.

HOW DO I MEASURE THAT?

I CAN GO HOME TONIGHT, ENGAGE WITH UBER APP, DISENGAGE WITH UBER APP, AM I NOW UNEMPLOYED.

IF I LOST THE JOB THROUGH NO FAULT OF MY OWN, CAN WE GET BENEFITS.

DURING THE PANDEMIC THERE WAS FEDERAL INTERCESSION THAT PROVIDED A BENEFIT TO THOSE WHO WERE IMPACTED AND WE UNDERSTOOD THAT AND APPRECIATED THAT IT WAS FUNDED THROUGH EMERGENCY FUNDING.

THE ASSEMBLYMAN TALKED EARLIER ABOUT PERHAPS A FEDERAL SOLUTION TO SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS AND THAT COULD BE THE ANSWER HERE.

THE PROBLEM IS, AND SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE WILL TELL YOU, OUR UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM IS NOW BROKE IN NEW YORK.

WE OWE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT $10 BILLION, 13 BILLION BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

100% PAID FOR BY NEW YORK STATE EMPLOYERS.

THEY ALL GOT A BILL THIS YEAR.

EACH WORKER NOW COST $THE 0 TO $400 PER YEAR FOR UNEMPLOYMENT THAT'S A LOT OF PIZZA OR TALKING ABOUT THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY, A LOT OF MEALS TO SELL TO MAKE THAT UP FOR THE EMPLOYER.

DO WE ALL THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE A SAFETY NET FOR THOSE WHO LOSE THEIR JOB THROUGH NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN?

A SYSTEM WE HAVE BEEN WORKING WITH FOR A LONG TIME AND WE ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WOULD YOU EVER, THROUGH THIS CHANGE IN DEFINITION, TRACK, MONITOR, APPLY THAT TO THE CURRENT WORKFORCE.

>> GREG, ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS IS THE ABILITY OF CONTRACTORS, ONES WORKING FOR THIRD PARTY APPS TO UNIONIZE AND ENGAGE IN COLLECTIVE BARGAINING, ANOTHER ISSUE WHERE THERE WAS TALK ABOUT IT IN THE CAPITOL BUT THAT DIED PRETTY QUICKLY THIS YEAR ONCE THERE WAS ANY TALK OF IT HOW DO YOU THINK THAT ISSUE SHOULD BE APPROACHED?

I IMAGINE YOU THINK IT IS THEIR RIGHT TO COLLECTIVELY BARGAIN IF THEY WANT TO?

>> WITHOUT TAKING THE EASY WAY OUT, IT'S A PRIME EXAMPLE OF A FEDERAL LEGISLATION OR FEDERAL POLICY COULD HELP GUIDE THE STATES THAT DO HAVE NUANCES TO THE INDUSTRY.

FEDERAL GUIDANCE COULD BE THERE WITH BACKSTOP PROTECTIONS.

AS THE CONVERSATION STARTS HAPPENING IS WHEN WE SEE ENRICHED BENEFITS THAT THE GO TO THE WORKERS IN THERE AND THAT'S WHERE SOME OF THE MILEAGE AND STAND BY AND COMPENSATION COMES IN AS THE CONVERSATION STARTS COMING UP.

BUT I REALLY DO THINK A FEDERAL BASELINE WOULD GIVE STATES THE ABILITY TO ACTUALLY TWEAK IT AND USE SOME OF THE NATIONAL RESOURCES TO BUILD A PROGRAM THAT WOULD BE CORRECT FOR A REGION OR AN ECONOMY.

>> 2K3WRE67 EN, WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THIS CONTEXT LARGELY THROUGH THE CONTEXT OF THE THIRD PARTY APPS BUT AS FRANK POINTED OUT, THERE ARE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS WHO ARE NOT WORKING FOR THEM.

THEY ARE JOURNALISTS WHO WOULD LIKE TO BE WORKING FOR SOMEONE BECAUSE THAT'S A TOUGH WORLD OUT THERE.

BUT HOW SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT THOSE INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS?

DO THEY DESERVE SOME SORT OF SAFETY NET?

AND IF SO, WHO SHOULD BE PROVIDING IT?

>> WELL CERTAINLY THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE LEGITIMATELY CLASSIFIED AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS AND BENEFIT FROM THAT DESIGNATION.

AND THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO CONTROL THE TERMS OF THEIR OWN EMPLOYMENT.

AND WHETHER THEY'RE WORKING FOR ANOTHER AGENCY, OR ANOTHER BUSINESS OR ANOTHER COMPANY, THAT COMPANY, WHAT THEY'RE DOING FOR THAT COMPANY IS NOT THE MAIN ACTIVITY OF THAT BUSINESS.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR SURE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO BE CONSIDERED AND RECOGNIZED AS INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS AND, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY THEY HAVE BEEN VOCAL BUT AGAIN I THINK THAT BEGS THE QUESTION OF WHO IS CONSIDERED AN INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR.

I THINK WE HAVE SEEN A KIND OF PUSH TOWARDS ENSURING THAT THERE ARE SOME FORMS OF LIKE MOVEABLE BENEFITS THAT PEOPLE CAN HAVE, RIGHT?

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IN THE ERA OF EMPLOYMENT INSECURITY.

IT'S JUST VERY PROBLEMATIC THAT SO MANY OF OUR BENEFITS, RIGHT, WHETHER YOU HAVE ACCESS TO RIGHTS, HEALTHCARE RIGHTS, ET CETERA, ARE DEPENDENT UPON WHETHER OR NOT YOU ARE EMPLOYED IN THE TRADITIONAL SENSE OF EMPLOYMENT.

I THINK WE THEY'D TO MOVE TOWARDS A DIFFERENT KIND OF SYSTEM OF BENEFITS FOR WORKERS IN OUR SOCIETY.

>> FRANK, YOU'VE GOT YOUR EAR TO THE GROUND IN ALBANY AND EVERYTHING I'VE SAID ABOUT THE REAL TOXIC NATURE OF THIS DEBATE IS NOT NEW TO YOU.

WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT, SAY THE 2022 SESSION, DO YOU HAVE ANY SENSE OF WHETHER THIS MIGHT ACTUALLY BE ADDRESSED OR DO YOU THINK THAT, BECAUSE OF THE CONTROVERSIAL NATURE, BECAUSE THERE IS, YOU KNOW, SO MUCH AT STAKE HERE, THAT NOTHING WILL GET DONE IN ALBANY?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.

THERE IS A CONSIST-- A SKISM.

>> THEY WATCHED FROM THE SIDELINES AS IT EXPLODED.

>> IS THERE A RESOLUTION TO THAT?

I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S WHN THE CAUCUS TO DECIDE.

BUT YOU KNOW, NEXT YEAR IS AN ELECTION YEAR AND THINGS GET WEIRD IN ALBANY IN ELECTION YEARS.

IT'S HARD TO SAY.

I WOULDN'T BET AGAINST THE PROGRESSIVES IN KILLING SOMETHING THAT WASN'T ALL ENCOMPASSING.

I THINK THEIR MAIN ISSUE WAS SURE COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AS A SECTOR IS FINE BUT THEY WANT TO ADDRESS THE WHOLE ISSUE.

AND OTHERS, YOU KNOW, THEY OPPOSE THAT.

I WOULDN'T UNDERESTIMATE THEIR ABILITY TO KILL IT AGAIN EVEN IN LIGHT OF, YOU KNOW, HAVING SMALL VICTORIES ALONG THE WAY.

HARD TO SAY.

>> I WANT TO TURN TO ANOTHER ISSUE AND THIS IS THE REAL BABY OF THE ORGANIZED LABOR MOVEMENT IN NEW YORK AND THAT'S THE MINIMUM WAGE AND WE SAW THE PUSH TO 15 WAS REALLY DRIVEN BY ORGANIZED LABOR IN NEW YORK AND WE ARE AT THE POINT NOW IN NEW YORK CITY AND THE SURROUNDING AREAS THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE AT $15 AND FAST FOOD WORKERS ARE ALSO AT $15 AN HOUR, UPSTATE NEW YORK IS 12.50 AN HOUR.

WHAT ARE YOU ANTICIPATING FROM THE LABOR MOVEMENT ON THIS ISSUE MOVING FORWARD?

DO YOU THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A CONTINUED PUSH TO GET TO $15 IN A HURRY WHICH THE CUOMO ADMINISTRATION HAS THE ABILITY TO DO?

OR IS THE ORGANIZED LABOR MOVEMENT AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED, HAPPY WITH THE SYSTEM THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW.

>> I THINK THE SYSTEM IS MAKING GOOD PROGRESS BECAUSE EVEN AT THE RATES SET AT 12.50 UPSTATE WHICH WE COULD ARGUE ALL DAY LONG WITH THE COST OF LIVING, IF YOU DO TAKE A LOOK AROUND, AND AS YOU ARE VISITING RESTAURANTS AND FAST FOOD ESTABLISHMENTS, THEY'RE ALL ADVERTISING AND PAYING MUCH MORE THAN $12.50 TO GET THE WORKFORCE.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS PANDEMIC RELATED OR LOW WAGE BODIES THAT THE AVAILABILITY ARE NOT THERE.

BUT I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE LABOR CONTINUOUS WILL I BUSH TO EVER INCREASE WAGES GOING FORWARD.

THAT'S WHAT THE LABOR MOVEMENT DOES, TRY TO IMPROVE LIVING STANDARDS FOR THE MEMBERSHIP AND INDUSTRIES THAT THEY ARE EPT.

>> GRETCHEN, THE MECHANIC MECHANISM FOR GETTING 15 AN HOUR UPSTATE IS UNDER REVIEW WITH THE DIVISION OF BUDGET AND COULD HAVE SOMETHING OUT THIS FALL SAYING WE ARE GOING TO INCREASE IT IN 2022.

IS THAT THE BEST WAY TO DO THIS AS FAR AS YOU ARE CONCERNED?

SHOULD THIS BE PART OF THE POLITICAL GAMES IN ALBANY OR SHOULD WE TIE THIS TO, SAY THE COST OF LIVING AND LET IT JUST TAKE OUR HANDS AWAY FROM IT?

>> I WOULD SAY THERE IS ANOTHER OPTION WHICH I THINK THIS IS A MORAL ISSUE.

TRYING TO SURVIVE AUTO TWFL.50 AN HOUR-- 12.50 AN HOUR PARTICULARLY WHEN YOUR JOB IS PRECARIOUS ONE SECURE HOURS, IS EXTRAORDINARILY DIFFICULT.

AND WE HAVE DIRE PROBLEMS OF POVERTY AND OBVIOUSLY EXTREME ISSUES OF INEQUALITY IN OUR SOCIETY.

SO I THINK THERE IS A MORAL CASE TO BE MADE THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE AND MINIMUM SHOULD BE $15 AN HOUR.

I MEAN I WOULD KIND OF QUESTION ANYONE SITTING HERE, ANYONE IN THIS ROOM, HOW WOULD IT FEEL TO EARN $12.50 AN HOUR.

COULD YOU CARE FOR YOUR FAMILY ON THAT WAGE?

I WOULD ADVOCATE FOR JUMPING THE GUN AND YOU SEE MANY OTHER STATES HAVE DONE THIS OR AT LEAST WILL HAVE DONE THIS BY 2023, AND PUSHED THAT MINIMUM WAGE UP TO $15 AN HOUR.

>> SO IF IT MINIMUM WAGE IS A MORAL ISSUE, WHY IS $15 AN HOUR THE RIGHT-- BECAUSE THAT'S NOT IN YOU HAVE TO RAISE A FAMILY OF FOUR O.

IS IT DISINGENUOUS TO TALK ABOUT $15 AN HOUR.

SHOULDN'T YOU BE SAYING $20, OR $25 AN HOUR.

WHAT ABOUT THE SOCIAL SAFETY NET THAT DOES EXIST IN NEW YORK.

BECAUSE HOPEFULLY NO ONE MAKING 12.50 AN HOUR IS GOING OUT OTHER POTENTIAL ASSISTANCE WHETHER IT'S CHILD CARE SUBSIDIES OR I GO ELSE.

THAT SPEAKS TO THE ABSURD AT THIS TO THE LOW WAGES IN OUR SOCIETY.

WHAT WE ARE DOING IS SUBSKIESING LOW WAGE EMPLOYERS AND SO FAR AS LOW WAGE WORKERS ARE AVAILABLE FOR PUBLIC ASSISTANCE PROGRAMS.

IT SHOULD BE THE CASE THAT IF YOU ARE WORKING, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE A LIVING THAT ALLOWS YOU TO PURSUE YOUR DREAM, TAKE CARE OF YOUR BASIC... AND I AGREE WITH YOU.

$15 AN HOUR IS IN FACT MORE THAN DOUBLE THE FEDERAL MINIMUM WAGE.

SO AGAIN THIS ALSO SPEAKS TO JUST THE ABSOLUTE INTRANSIGENCE ON THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

>> FRANK, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE PROCESS THAT EXISTS IN NEW YORK?

ARE YOU HAPPY WITH WHAT WE WILL PROBABLILY SEE IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE D.O.B.

DOES A STUDY EVERY FEW YEARS TO GO TO THE NEXT STEP IN THE CHART.

DID YOU READ THE STUDDIE FROM LAST YEAR?

>> I HAVE A REQUESTY ABOUT THAT.

IT'S A PRETTY SHORT STUDY CAME CAME OUT WITH.

>> THE STUDY IS IS IN NAME ONLY.

>> THAT'S CYNICAL.

DO YOU THINK THERE IS A RUBBER STAMP THAT JUST APPROVES IT?

>> YOU SAID IT, NOT ME.

SO IN THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC LAST YEAR THEY DETERMINED THE UPSTATE ECONOMY WAS HEALTHY IN YOU HAVE TO MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP.

SO I'M SURE THAT, YOU THOUGH, AND WE ANTICIPATE AN INCREASE IN THE FALL AS WELL AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL.

JUMPING FROM 12.50 TO 15 WOULD BE THE BIGGEST JUMP OF ANY REGION SINCE THE LAW WAS PASSED.

YOU ARE RIGHT, THE FIGHT FOR 15 LOOKS GOOD ON A T-SHIRT.

20 WOULD BE A NUMBER.

>> DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS.

>> 15 DOESN'T REALLY HAVE ANY VALUE.

IT'S A MADE UP NUMBER.

I DON'T THINK IT SOLVES YOUR ISSUES.

IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T ADDRESS EMPLOYER ISSUES.

IT'S A MADE UP NUMBER.

THE REAL MIP IS ZERO BUT YOU DON'T NEED TO GET INTO THAT DISCUSSION.

I TALKED TO THE SER VIVEBILITY ASPECT.

I DON'T THOUGH THAT THE MINIMUM WAGE IS INTENDED TO RAISE A FAMILY ON.

BUT MORE INTENDED THAT INDIVIDUALS USE TO GAIN EXPERIENCE, BECOME MORE VALUABLE IN THE MARKETPLACE.

>> I'M GOING TO GRETCHEN IN A SECOND.

I UNDERSTAND THAT PEOPLE DO WORK AND SUPPORT FAMILIES ON IT BUT IT WAS NOT INTENTIONED.

AND THE WORD FROM GREG, FRAGILITY.

NEW YORK STATE IS FRAGILE.

WE ANTICIPATE 49% OF SMALL COMPANIES IN NEW YORK STATE WON'T REOPEN AFTER THE PANDEMIC.

THERE ARE 455,000 COMPANIES IN NEW YORK STATE.

80% HAVE LESS THAN 40 EMPLOYEES.

THERE WERE LESS JOBS AT THE START OF THE PANDEMIC THAN THERE WERE BEFORE THE 2008 RECESSION.

UPSTATE NEVER RECOVERED FROM THE 2008 RECESSION.

WE'RE ONLY ONE OF THE FEW STATES WITH BUSINESSES LEAVING NEW YORK STATE, FRAGILITY IS A KEY WORD FOR SURE.

THE UPDATE ECONOMY IS FRAGILE NOW.

AND I BET IF YOU TALKED TO 100 BUSINESS OWNERS UPSTATE, HOW WOULD YOU APPRECIATE ANOTHER $250 COST FOR YOUR WORKFORCE, THAT FRAGILITY WOULD BE EXPOSED.

>> WOULD YOU LIKE TO RESPOND TO WHAT FRANK HAS SAID?

>> I'LL PASS.

>> ARE YOU SURE?

HE WAS RIGHT IN YOUR WHEELHOUSE.

I GUESS I WANT TO THEN PIVOT TO THE SUB MINIMUM WAGE.

SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE ASSEMBLYMAN AS WELL AND WE NOTED THAT THE SUB MINIMUM WAGE HAS BEEN ELIMINATED FOR ALL OTHER INDUSTRIES IN NEW YORK EXCEPT FOR THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY.

FRANK, IS THERE ANYTHING THAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT THAT MAKES SENSE?

>> MY FIRST PROBLEM IS THE TERM SUB MINIMUM WAGE.

NO ONE MAKES LESS THAN MINIMUM WAGE F. YOU DON'T MAKE... >> SHOULD I CALL IT TIP MINIMUM WAGE IT DOES SOUND BETTER.

>> IF I'M A TIPPED EMPLOYEE, I MAKE THE TIPPED MINIMUM WAGE.

IF I DON'T MAKE IN TIPS WHAT THE 34EU78 IS, MY EMPLOYER IS OBLIGATED BY LAW TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE.

>> IF WE ARE ALL FOLLOWING THE LAWS AND ASSUMING PEOPLE ARE AWARE OF THEIR RIEGHTS AND EVERYTHING.

AND I WOULD ENCOURAGE THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR TO ACTIVELY ENFORCE THAT LAW WITH EMPLOYERS.

>> FAIR ENOUGH.

>> THAT'S JUST ONE OF MY PERSONAL ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, AS THE ASSEMBLYMAN SAID THERE IS NOT AGREEMENT AMONGST WORKERS AS TO WHETHER THE TIPPED WAGE SHOULD BE MODIFIED OR ELIMINATED OR WHATEVER.

IT WOULD CERTAINLY HAVE AN IMPACT ON THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY AND WHAT WE HEAR EVERY DAY IS ABOUT FRAGILITY AGAIN OF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY AT THIS POINT.

WE HAVE PLACES THAT CLOSED DURING THE WEEK BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE STAFF.

DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO GET PEOPLE TO WORK.

WE DON'T SEE THE TIPPED WAGES AS AN EFFECTIVE WAY, AND ESPECIALLY IN THE WAY IT WAS PROPOSED AND JUST GONE, RIGHT?

THAT WOULD HAVE A SIGNIFICANT OVERNIGHT IMPACT ON THESE INDUSTRIES THAT WOULD HAVE TO RADICALLY REDESIGN HOW THEY MEASURE REWARD AND PAY EMPLOYEES.

>> CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE A LITTLE BIT AND ALSO, THERE IS A HISTORY, A NOT GOOD HISTORY OF THE SUB MINIMUM WAGE OR TIP MINIMUM WAGE THAT I THINK WE REALLY DON'T UNDERSTAND AS A SOCIETY.

SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

>> OH YEAH THE HISTORY OF THE SUB MINIMUM WAGE FOR CONTEXT, IT GOES BACK TO SLAVERY AND JIM CROW LAWS.

AND YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE.

I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT AND THERE IS NO UNIFORMED OPINION BETWEEN WORKERS THEMSELVES.

THERE IS REALLY STRANGED ORGANIZED ISSUES ON BOTH SIDES OF THE DEBATE.

THE TERMS OF THE DEBATE HAVE BEEN WRONGLY STRUCTURED.

AND THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT RAISING THE BLIP MINIMUM WAGE FOR RESTAURANT WORKERS THAT WOULD OBLITERATE THE CULTURAL PRACTICE OF TIPPING IN RESTAURANTS.

AND I THINK IF MORE WORKERS UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT THERE IS NOTHING ABOUT THIS DECISION THAT IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR TIPS.

YOU WOULD SEE, IN FACT, GREATER UNANIMITY AMONGST WORKERS ABOUT THE NEED FOR INCREASING THE MINIMUM WAGE.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, THE DEPARTMENT OF DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, YOU KNOW, GREAT.

BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE THE ENFORCEMENT CAPACITY TO ENSURE THAT, IN FACT, RESTAURANT WORKERS, MANY OF WHOM ARE VERY UNAWARE OF WHAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE.

MANY OF WHOM ARE MARGINALIZED IN ALL KINDS OF WAYS.

THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR CAN'T, IN FACT, BE REGULATING EVERY SINGLE RESTAURANT WORKPLACE.

AND SO THERE IS LOTS OF WORKERS WHO ARE NOT GETTING THE ACTUAL MINIMUM WAGE AND IN ORDER TO EVEN COME CLOSE TO TRYING TO ACHIEVE THE MINIMUM WAGE, THERE IS A LOT OF VULNERABILITY THAT THEY HAVE TO PUT THEMSELVES INTO.

AND SO THERE IS KIND OF COUNTLESS STORIES OF PARTICULARLY FEMALE WORKERS WHO EXPERIENCE ALL KINDS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT ON THE JOB THAT THEY FEEL THEY HAVE TO PUT UP WITH IN ORDER TO GET THE TIPS THEY NEED TO TRY TO ACHIEVE THE QUOTE UNQUOTE MINIMUM WAGE.

>> GREG, ORGANIZED LABOR AS WE MENTIONED HAS ALWAYS HAD AN INTEREST IN LOOKING TO RAISE THE LOWEST WAGES BECAUSE A RISING TIDE AND WHAT NOT AND BOATS AND ALL THAT STUFF.

I'M NOT A NAVY GUY.

BUT DO YOU THINK THAT ORGANIZED LABOR HAS A SIGNIFICANT INTEREST IN TARGETING THAT LAST REMAINING GROUP THAT'S GETTING THE SUB MINIMUM WAGE?

OR IS THIS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUES THAT THAT THESE ARE NOT ORGANIZED WORKERS FOR THE MOST PART THAT I'M AWARE OF.

AND SHOULD THERE BE THIS SPECIAL SUBSET WHERE ORGANIZED LABOR SAYS OKAY, WE UNDERSTAND THIS ISN'T OUR GAME.

WE ARE GOING TO SIT THIS ONE OUT.

>> SURE.

I THINK ORGANIZED LABOR HAS AN INTEREST IN RAISING THIS MINIMUM WAGE AND I THINK IT IS MORE OF A STANDARDIZING A WORKFORCE FOR AN INDUSTRY.

WE DO HAVE WORKERS IN MANY DIFFERENT INDUSTRIES THAT ARE IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THEIR LIFE CYCLE.

WE HAVE THE YOUNG WORKER THAT, YOU KNOW, DOESN'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE OR SKILL SET OR ANY OF THAT GOING IN TO TAKE A JOB THAT MAYBE OFFSET TO BUY THE IPHONE OR SOME OF THE THINGS THAT THEIR PARENTS MAY NOT BE ABLE TO GIVE THEM B.

OF.

BUT YOU ALSO HAVE THE END OF THE WORKING CAREER LIFE CYCLE WHERE A LOT OF THE WORKERS ARE THERE.

ONE OF THE SAFETY NETH AND PROVISION LABOR PUBLIC WORKS FOR WORKERS RIGHTS, IS THAT IN THE TIPPED INDUSTRY, IF AN EMPLOYEE ISN'T ASTUTE AND DISCIPLINED AT SAVING OR PUTTING THINGS AWAY FOR THE RAINY DAY OR FOR THE END OF THE WORK CAREER, THERE IS NOTHING THERE FOR THEM.

SO STANDARDIZED, IT WOULD AT LEAST HELP FROM A SOCIAL SECURITY STANDPOINT WHERE THEY WOULD HAVE A HIGHER NUMBER AND HIGHER LEVEL OF RETIREMENT SECURITY.

>> AN ISSUE THAT IS OFFSET OF THE RESTAURANT INDUSTRY MINIMUM WAGE IS THE ON CALL SCHEDULING.

PROFESSOR, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT ONCALL SCHEDULING, IS THIS A COMPLICATED ISSUE FOR YOU OR A NO BRAINER FOR YOU WHERE THERE NEEDS TO BE ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS AND RULES AND GUARANTEED PAYMENTS FOR NEW YORKERS WHO ARE ON THESE ON CALL SCHEDULING SYSTEMS WHERE THEY'RE POTENTIALLY AT THE WHIM OF SEASONALITY OR JUST THE WEATHER.

>> THIS IS THE ISSUE IN SOME WAYS I CARE THE MOST ABOUT BECAUSE SO MUCH OF MY OWN RESEARCH HAS FOCUSED ON DAY LABOR.

THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF GIG WORKERS WHO HAVE NO SECURITY FROM ONE DAY TO THE NEXT.

AND I THINK WE HAVE SEEN POSITIVE PROGRESS IN THE NUMBER OF CITIES IN THE STATE OF OREGON AROUND THIS QUESTION OF PREDICTIVE SCHEDULING.

WOULD I LOVE TO SEE NEW YORK PASS SOME SORT OF LEGISLATION FOR THE STATE, NOT JUST FOR FIRKT AND FOR A BROADER CATEGORY OF WORKERS THAT ENSURE SOME ABILITY TO PREDICT THEIR SCHEDULE TWO WEEKS OUT SO THEY CAN ANTICIPATE WHAT THEIR EARNINGS WILL BE THAT MONTH.

IT IS-- THERE IS JUST FAR TOO MANY WORKERS WHO CAN'T PREDICT WHAT THEIR EARNINGS ARE GOING TO BE FROM MONTH TO MONTH AND WHO CAN'T SCHEDULE THINGS LIKE CHILD CARE OR THE SECOND OR THIRD JOB THAT THEY HAVE TO HAVE IN ORDER TO MAKE ENDS MEET BECAUSE OF THIS QUESTION OF UNSTABLE OR ON CALL OR JUST IN TIME SCHEDULING.

>> FRANK, WE CAN DEFINITELY COME UP WITH A LIST OF JOBS WHERE TRYING TO SCHEDULE OUT TWO WEEKS IN ADVANCE IS REALLY PROBLEMATIC FOR AN EMPLOYER.

I WORKED FOR BEN AND JERRIES FOR MANY YEARS IN SARATOGA SPRINGS AND THERE WERE DAYS WHEN I WAS NOT DOING ANYTHING WHEN IT WAS RAINING BUT SHOULD WE LET THAT ISSUE, WHERE THE JOBS BE WHERE THERE ARE PROBLEMS OF SCHEDULING BE THE ENEMY OF FINDING SOLUTIONS FOR INDUSTRIES WHERE THIS CAN WORK?

IF I'M AT K-MART, FOR EXAMPLE, IF THERE ARE ANY K-MARTS LEFT.

MAYBE I'M DATING MYSELF.

SHOULDN'T I KNOW MY SCHEDULE FOR TWO WEEKS OUT?

>> SURE.

AND NEW YORK CITY HAS ADOPTED A RETAIL MODEL WHERE THEY HAVE TO POST SCHEDULES IN ADVANCE AND THAT'S FINE.

WE GET THAT AS A FORM OF INFORMATION.

BUT AGAIN WE TALK ABOUT FRAGILITY.

BEN AND JERRY'S IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE FINE WHEN THERE IS NOT A BUSY DAY BUT LOCAL ICE CREAM STAND.

>> LOCALLY OWNED AND OPERATE.

>> I KNOW.

BUT YOUR INDEPENDENTLY OWNED SMALL BUSINESS DOES NOT HAVE THE RESOURCES.

AND WE SEE THIS A LOT.

$15 MINIMUM WAGE, AMAZON, WAL-MART HAS NO PROBLEMS MEETING THOSE OBLIGATIONS.

ON CALL SCHEDULING, THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOR REALIZED IN ADDITION TO THE COST OF PROVIDING THESE EXTRA PAYMENTS TO EMPLOYEES FOR TIMES THEY'RE NOT WORKING, THE ADMINISTRATIVE BURREDDEN OF DOING THAT DRIVES PEOPLE AWAY.

BUSINESSES LEAVE NEW YORK NOT BECAUSE NECESSARILY THE COST OF BUSINESS BUSINESS IN NEW YORK ALTHOUGH IF IT IS EXCESSIVE WE HAVE THE BIGGEST WOMPERS COMPETENCIES TEM IN THE COUNTRY AND BIGGEST U.I.

IN THE COUNTRY.

NOT BECAUSE OF THAT BUT BECAUSE OF THE REGULATION.

THE ICE CREAM STAND, LOCAL PIZZA PLACE, WHEN THEY WERE PUT IN PLACE, I WOULD GO TO MY FAVORITE PIZZA PLACE AND SAY ARE YOU READY FOR ON CALL STELLING.

HE DIDN'T KNOW WAY WAS TALKING ABOUT.

I SAY THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO.

HE SAID I CAN'T DO THAT.

I'M MAKING PIZZAs.

THAT'S WHY THE D.O.L.

I THINK SAW THIS AS A BAD WAY TO GO.

CAN WE BE MORE INNOVATIVE IN THIS, MAYBE.

AND I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MARKETS TRY THESE THINGS.

WE ARE IN A CRITICAL LABOR SHORTAGE NOW.

LARGE SECTOR OF THE WORKFORCE STAYING HOME.

AND EMPLOYERS ARE STRUGGLING TO FIND WORKERS AND YOU CAN SEE HOW INNOVATIVE THEY ARE.

I HAD AN F.M.

STATION ON ON THE WAY OVER HERE.

TALK ABOUT HOW OLD I AM AND EVERY COMMERCIAL WAS AN EMPLOYER LOOKING FOR HELP OFFERING BONUSES.

I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE A LITTLE MORE FLEX FLEXIBLE WITH THEIR WORKERS AND WE HAD THE SHORTAGE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC AS WELL.

EMPLOYERS IN NEW YORK HAVE BEEN VERY INNOVATIVE IN THE LAST 5, 6, 7 YEARS AS WE HAD LOW EMPLOYMENT PRIOR TO THE EP DEP.

ONE SIZE FITS ALL COULD HAVE BEEN CATASTROPHIC FOR SMALL BUSINESS IN NEW YORK STATE.

>> WE ONLY HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF TIME LEFT AND AS FRANK NOTED, NEXT YEAR IS AN ELECTION YEAR, A GREAT CHANCE TO PUT THE SCREWS TO SOME OF THESE POLL SIGNIFICANTSES AND GET SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WANT WITH THESE POLITICIANS.

>> I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO PUSH FOR RAISING WORKING STANDARDS.

BECAUSE THAT'S ONE THING EVEN FRANK, I THINK YOU MENTIONED SUPER MAJORITY.

THAT'S ONE OF THE SYNONYMOUS GOALS THAT YOU CAN SEE FROM THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THE LEGISLATURE IS THEY'RE ALWAYS TRYING TO RAISE THE STANDARDS FOR WORKING NEW YORKERS AND WORKING AMERICANS.

AND I DO UNDERSTAND THAT-- AND I ALSO AGREE, THAT ON ELECTION YEARS, YOU CAN'T REALLY TAKE MUCH FOR GRANTED ON THAT BECAUSE THE ENVIRONMENT IS PERFECTLY CHARGED AND-- >> GRETCHEN WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE SECONDS LEFT IF YOU WERE THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER OR ASSEMBLY SPEAKER FOR THE DAY, WHAT WOULD BE THE FIRST BILL YOU WOULD BRING UP OR THE FIRST TOPIC YOU WOULD MAKE SURE GETS PRIORITIZED IN THIS CONVERSATION?

>> OH DEAR, I DO NOT KNOW WHAT I WOULD PRIORITIZE.

LET ME ANSWER YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE ONE LAST THING I WANT TO SAY.

>> FIVE SECONDS.

>> I THINK WHATEVER WHAT IS OVERLYING THIS IS THE POWER IMBALANCE.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS JUST GREATER CAPACITY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL FOR WORKERS TO IN FACT FORM UNIONS.

IF WORKERS HAD POWER IN THE WORKPLACE, I THINK WE WOULD SEE LESS OF THIS IDEA OF ADMINISTRATIVE BURDENS AND NEED FOR EMPLOYMENT LEGISLATION.

>> UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE AND I WANT TO THANK OUR PANELISTS FOR MAKING THE TIME WITH US, PROFESSOR GRETCHEN PURSER OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY; FRANK KERBEIN OF THE BUSINESS COUNCIL OF NEW YORK STATE; AND GREG LANCETTE OF THE CENTRAL-NORHTERN NEW YORK BUILDING AND CONSTRUCTION TRADES COUNCIL.

YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN AND FOLLOW US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT WCNY.ORG/CONNECT NEW YORK.

ON BEHALF OF THE ENTIRE TEAM AT WCNY BEHIND THE CAMERA AND IN FRONT, I'M DAVID LOMBARDO.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.