>> TONIGHT ON IVORY TOWER... THE COST AND BENEFITS OF TRUMP'S MOVES ON GREENLAND.

WHERE IS THE LINE DRAWN FOR PROTESTING?

WHO'S CROSSING IT IN MINNESOTA?

AND SHOULD SCHOOLS TEACH ABOUT JANUARY 6TH?

STAY TUNED FOR INSIGHTS FROM THE PROFESSORS COMING UP NEXT.

THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE .

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TARA ROSS OF ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY LISA DOLAK, SARAH PRALLE AND JOSH DARR.

THIS WEEK BEGAN WITH PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CONTINUED DEMAND FOR ANNEXATION OF GREENLAND AND THE POSSIBILITY OF A MILITARY INVASION, AND TARIFF THREATS AGAINST EIGHT OF OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES.

BY THE MIDDLE OF THE WEEK TRUMP TOOK ANNEXATION AND MILITARY FORCE AND TARIFFS OFF THE TABLE AND THEN HE ANNOUNCED THE FRAMEWORK OF A FUTURE DEAL .

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THE DETAILS HAVE YET TO BE FINALIZED, BUT WE'RE HEARING TALK OF SOVEREIGN U.S.

MILITARY BASES, NO RUSSIA DRILLING, AND A TRANSFER OF POCKETS OF LAND TO THE U.S.

LISA, GO THESE ARE PART OF THE FRAMEWORK OF THAT FUTURE DEAL, DO THEY MAKE TRUMP'S AGGRESSIVENESS WORTH IT ALL AT THAT TIME WE'VE EXPERIENCED, DOES IT PAY OFF IN THE END?

>> I MEAN, IT MAY WELL.

AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS THAT I'VE HEARD THAT THE FRAMEWORK OF THE DEAL MIGHT INCLUDE.

EUROPE WOULD STEP UP AND EXPAND THEIR EFFORTS TO INCREASE SECURITY AROUND THE ARCTIC.

AND NOT JUST A BAN ON RUSSIA DRILLING BUT THE UNITED STATES WOULD HAVE THE RIGHT OF FIRST REFUSAL AS TO ACCESS TO CRITICAL MINERALS.

LOOK, GREENLAND IS A BIG DEAL STRATEGICALLY INCREASINGLY SO.

INCREASINGLY GEOPOLITICALLY IMPORTANT.

IT SITS IN A CRITICAL CHOKE POINT FOR MONITORING RUSSIA NAVAL AND AIR ACTIVITY BETWEEN THE ARCTIC AND THE ATLANTIC.

RUSSIA HAS REBUILT BASES, CHINA WANTS MINERALS.

IT'S CRITICAL POSITIONING FOR MISSILE DEFENSE, EARLY WARNING, MONITORING WHAT IS GOING ON IN SPACE, AND THOSE CRITICAL MINERALS ARE VERY IMPORTANT.

AND SO IT'S A BIG DEAL.

THERE SEEMS TO BE BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT THAT IT'S A BIG DEAL.

I'M VERY GLAD THAT THE UNITED STATES IS PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS.

AND, BUT OF COURSE NORMALIZING THE IDEA THAT GREAT POWERS CAN ACQUIRE TERRITORY BY FORCE IS DESTABILIZING, HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC.

TRUMP SEEMS TO HAVE, AS YOU SAID, TAKEN THAT OFF THE TABLE, THANKFULLY.

WHAT THE UNITED STATES NEEDS TO DO IS TO DEEPEN OUR STRATEGIC POSTURE, YOU KNOW, BY COOPERATION, INCLUDING WITH NATO, WHO REMAINS THE UNITED STATES' GREATEST FORCE MULTIPLIER.

>> OKAY, SO LET ME ASK YOU THIS, LISA.

WHY NOW?

NOT ONLY HAS THE U.S.

HAD A CONTINUING INTEREST IN ACQUIRING GREENLAND BUT SO HAS TRUMP AND IN 2019 HE SORT OF TOOK IT OFF THE TABLE.

BUT NOW HE IS CLEARLY RAMPED UP HIS PURSUIT OF IT.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW ABOUT RUSSIA AND CHINA IN PARTICULAR?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT JUST RUSSIA AND CHINA.

I THINK THERE ARE LIKE EIGHT NATIONS WHO ARE CLAIMING-- SEVEN OR EIGHT NATIONS ARE CLAIMING RIGHTS TO THE ARCTIC GENERALLY.

IT'S BECAUSE IT IS INCREASINGLY IMPORTANT.

THIS ACCESS TO MINERALS, THE SORT OF NEED FOR EUROPE TO STEP UP.

THE ACCESS THAT RUSSIA WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW FROM THE ARCTIC DIRECTLY TO THE EASTERN SEA BOARD.

SHIPPING ROUTES IS ANOTHER THING I DIDN'T MENTION.

COMMERCIAL SHIPPING.

AS THE WORLD WARMS, AS SPACE BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT, IT JUST, OVER TIME, HAS BECOME MORE IMPORTANT.

WE ARE JUST HEARING A LOT MORE ABOUT IT BECAUSE OF TRUMP'S EFFORTS.

BUT YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THIS BUSINESS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE ARCTIC AND ITS IMPORTANCE FOR A LONG TIME.

>> FOR A LONG TIME.

JOSH, RUSSIA AND CHINA HAVE BEEN RAMPING UP THEIR EFFORTS.

RUSSIA IN PARTICULAR IS REFURBISHING ITS MILITARY BASES, BUYING MILITARY EQUIPMENT.

CHINA KEEPS PUTTING ITS COMPANIES THERE, EXPANDING THE AIRPORT NETWORK.

HOW WORRIED SHOULD WE BE AND IS TRUMP ON TO SOMETHING SAYING WE SHOULD BE VERY WORRIED?

>> I THINK HE IS RIGHT THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT THE ARCTIC AS LISA POINTED OUT.

THE IMPORTANCE OF GREENLAND STRATEGICALLY HAS LONG BEEN KNOWN TO THE U.S.

AS A WAY OF TALKING ABOUT THE ARCTIC MORE GENERALLY.

AND THERE IS A 1951 DEAL WITH DENMARK AND GREENLAND THAT ALLOWS US TO PUT MILITARY BASES THERE.

THAT PRETTY MUCH GIVES US NOT A LOT OF OBSTACLES TO DOING THE THINGS WE FEEL ARE NECESSARY IN GREENLAND.

AND THE DEAL KIND OF SOUNDS A LOT LIKE THAT ONE WE ALREADY HAVE.

AND TRUMP'S OFFERS TO BUY IT SOUND LIKE HARRY TRUMAN'S OFFICER TO BUY IT.

SO IF THE TAKEAWAY IS THAT WE NEED TO REFRESH, RESTRENGTHEN, REMIND OURSELVES THAT THIS 1951 DEAL IS IN PLACE, AND THAT GREENLAND IS STRATEGICALLY IMPORTANT, THEN MAYBE THIS WASN'T ALL FOR NAUGHT.

BUT A VALUABLE REMINDER OF WHAT WE NEED TO DO.

>> SARAH, TRUMP HAS PUSHED HIS PLANS FOR A GOLDEN DOME DEFENSE SYSTEM; A LITTLE BIT LIKE "STAR WARS" FOR REAGAN.

AND IT WOULD INCLUDE SOMETHING DIFFERENT FROM THE SORTS OF THINGS THAT JOSH TALKED ABOUT.

BOTH SPACE-BASED SYSTEMS AS WELL AS GROUND-BASED.

DO YOU THINK THAT ADDS SOMETHING DIFFERENT HERE THAT MAKES THE PRIOR SORT OF STANCE OF THE U.S.

DIFFERENT; THAT WE ARE WANTING TO DO MORE HERE?

>> I THINK THIS WHOLE THING-- FIRST OF ALL, WE ARE GRADING TRUMP ON A HUGE CURVE HERE.

I AGREE WITH JOSH THAT THIS WAS NOT A PROBLEM.

IT WAS A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM.

HE CREATES A CRISIS AND TRE TENDS TO SOLVE IT.

WE HAVE BEEN IN CONVERSATIONS WITH DENMARK ABOUT THESE ISSUES FOR OVER A YEAR, EVER SINCE REALLY HIS FIRST TERM WHEN HE WAS THREATENING THE SAME THING.

AND THEY WERE WILLING TO GIVE US PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING BEE WANTED, TRITE?

SO I DON'T SEE THIS AS A WIN OF ANY SORT.

IN FACT, I THINK THE PRICE WE MIGHT PAY IS VERY HIGH.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE REACTION OF OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES, THEY'RE SPOOKED, RIGHT?

AND PROBABLY RIGHTLY SO.

AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME TRUSTING OUR WORD.

THEY'RE ALREADY LOOKING FOR OTHER PARTNERS.

I THINK THE U.S., AFTER THIS, IS MUCH MORE ISOLATED FROM ITS ALLIES THAN IT WAS PRIOR.

I THINK THIS ACTUALLY ENCOURAGES COUNTRIES LIKE CANADA WHO IS REACHING OUT TO CHINA ALREADY FOR BILATERAL ECONOMIC TRADE AGREEMENTS.

AND I JUST DON'T SEE THE UPSIDE TO THIS AT ALL, HONESTLY.

AND THE GOLDEN DOME?

I MEAN FOR YEARS DIFFERENT PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THESE MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEMS.

RARELY DOES ANYTHING COME OF IT.

I DON'T REALLY BELIEVE TRUMP CARES ABOUT THE SECURITY OF THE ARCTIC REGION.

HE WANTED TERRITORY, RIGHT?

AND HE WASN'T REALLY SHY ABOUT SAYING THAT.

>> YEAH, THAT BIG PIECE OF ICE, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> SO TARA, WHAT ABOUT THE PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECTS OF WHAT HAS HAPPENED?

LISA MENTIONED THE RESPONSES OF OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES.

EIGHT OF THEM READIED THEIR MILITARY.

THEY SENT IN MILITARY REINFORCEMENTS.

HOW DOES THE U.S.

GET PAST SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> EXCUSE ME, I'M NOT SURE THAT WE DO.

AS LISA ALLUDED TO, I THINK THERE HAS BEEN SOME VERY SERIOUS DAMAGE TO OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OUR EUROPEAN ALLIES.

I CAN'T REMEMBER WHICH UNWITH OF THE DANISH OFFICIALS STATED AS WELL AS GREEN LAND'S OFFICIALS HAVE STATED, THEY TALK ABOUT THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T MIND NEGOTIATING WITH THE UNITED STATES, RETHINKING POLICY, RETHINKING AGREEMENTS.

BUT THEY DON'T LIKE BEING THREATENED.

AND INCREASINGLY THIS NOTION THAT THE U.S.

CAN, YES, IT HAS A LOT OF MIGHT, BUT THAT IT IS USING ITS MIGHT AGAINST ITS ALLIES MAKE THEM VERY UNCERTAIN ABOUT THE UNITED STATES, BUT IT ALSO MAKES THE UNITED STATES-- EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE ALL THIS MIGHT-- IT MAKES US SEEM VERY UNSTABLE WITH THAT MIGHT.

I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE REAL FEAR IS.

IS THAT YOU CANNOT TRUST THAT THE UNITED STATES IS GOING TO ACT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF ALL OF NATO.

BECAUSE IF TOMORROW DONALD TRUMP DECIDES THAT, WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE HAVE BEEN PUTTING WAY TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON GREENLAND, LET'S JUST CLOSE DOWN THE BASE, THEN WHERE ARE THEY LEFT?

WHERE ARE THEY LEFT?

CERTAINLY ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED IN GREENLAND IS THEY'RE NOW PUSHING FOR INDEPENDENCE MORE NOW AND PUSHING FOR IT TO HAPPEN MORE IMMEDIATELY THAN THEY WERE BEFORE.

SO, UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE TO MOVE ON.

>> WE CELEBRATED THE LEGACY OF DR.

MARTIN LUTHER KING, JR.

THIS WEEK .

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AT THE SAME TIME THE COUNTRY IS EMBROILED IN A HEATED DEBATE OVER THE RIGHT TO PROTEST.

PROTESTERS IN MINNESOTA ARE ACCUSED OF TRESPASSING ON A SUNDAY CHURCH SERVICE .

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OBSTRUCTING ICE ENFORCEMENT AND FACILITIES .

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EVEN BOXING AND FACILITIES .

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EVEN DOXING AND ASSAULTING ICE OFFICERS .

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MEANWHILE, A FEDERAL JUDGE BANNED ICE OFFICERS' USE OF PEPPER SPRAY.

THIS IS ON TOP OF ALLEGATIONS THE ICE OFFICERS ARE VIOLATING THE CIVIL RIGHTS OF PROTESTERS; USING EXCESSIVE FORCE AGAINST THEM .

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AND RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING A PROTESTER.

SO, TARA, WHERE IS THE LINE TO BE DRAWN AROUND THE RIGHT TO PROTEST?

AND IN MINNESOTA, WHICH SIDE IS CROSSING THAT LINE?

THE PROTESTORS, ICE OR BOTH?

>> QUITE FRANKLY, IN MINNESOTA, I THINK ICE IS CROSSING THE LINE MUCH MORE THAN THE PROTESTORS ARE.

BUT THE PROTESTORS ARE ALSO RESPONDING TO THE FACT THAT THEY DON'T FEEL THAT THEY'RE MAKING ANY HEADWAY AGAINST ICE.

AND THAT THEY FEEL THAT ICE IS ESCALATING IN TERMS OF ITS BEHAVIOR.

SO THE PROTESTORS CROSS MORE LINES WHEN THEY FEEL THAT THE PEACEFUL PROTESTS IS NOT ACHIEVING WHAT THEY NEED TO ACHIEVE.

AND THE OTHER THING THAT IS HAPPENING IS THAT IT IS BECOMING A TIT FOR TAT.

AND YOU ESPECIALLY SEE IT WITH THE INCIDENT AT THE CHURCH.

TYPICALLY, CHURCHES HAVE BEEN SACROSANCT.

EVEN IN THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, YOU KNOW, OTHER THAN THE BOMBING, FOR MOST PART, EVEN THE KLAN.

THEY WOULD PROTEST OUTSIDE, THEY WOULD THROW THINGS AT CHURCHES BUT THEY WOULDN'T COME INTO CHURCH.

SO ONCE YOU GO INTO A CHURCH, YOU HAVE CROSSED THE LINE.

SO I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

>> YEAH, SO YOU ARE THE HISTORIAN AT THE TABLE, SO I'LL ASK YOU, WHAT ARE THE LESSONS THAT YOU WOULD OFFER TO MINNESOTA PROTESTORS THAT ARE TO BE DRAWN FROM THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT PROTESTS?

>> FIRST AND FOREMOST, ACTUAL TRAINING IN HOW TO PROTEST.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SOMETIMES GETS LOST WITH THE LESSONS ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, IS THAT THERE WAS TRAINING THAT WENT ON BEFORE PROTESTS.

THERE WAS DISCUSSION THAT WENT ON BEFORE TREFT PROTESTS.

IT WAS NOT SIMPLY OKAY, ON FACEBOOK OR GRAM OR X, WE ARE GOING TO PROTEST THIS DAY, WHICH IS GOOD IN TERMS OF GETTING CROWDS.

BUT IT'S NOT SO GOOD IN TERMS OF CONTROLLING THOSE CROWDS.

AND PART OF THAT TRAINING HAS TO BE WHAT ARE YOU WILLING TO RESIST?

HOW DO YOU RESIST IT SO THAT YOU PROTECT YOURSELF, BUT SO THAT THINGS DON'T ALSO ESCALATE, WHICH WOULD MAKE IT MUCH EASIER IN THIS CASE TO SEE THAT ICE IS IN THE WRONG.

>> IT'S ALL ABOUT PUBLIC PERCEPTION, RIGHT?

>> WELL, I MEAN I AGREE WITH SOME OF WHAT TARA SAID ABOUT SOME OF THE LESSONS ABOUT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT OF BEING ORGANIZED AND PREPARED.

BUT ACTUALLY, ESCALATION WORKED IN THEIR FAVOR.

ESCALATION ON THE PART OF INVOLVEMENT OF FEDERAL TROOPS, WHICH WERE THERE TO BRECT THE PROTESTORS-- WHICH WERE THERE TO PROTECT THE PROTESTORS.

IT IS AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC AND DATA THAT POLITICAL SCIENTISTS AND SOCIOLOGISTS HAVE GATHERED TO SHOW THAT WAS AN INCREDIBLY SUCCESSFUL WAY OF GETTING ATTENTION AND GETTING PEOPLE ON YOUR SIDE.

AND SO I JUST WANT TO SAY ONE MORE THING ABOUT THE CHURCH THING.

I THINK THAT'S GETTING A LITTLE BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.

PEOPLE TRESPASSED IN A CHURCH.

THAT IS A STRATEGY, WHETHER WE AGREE WITH IT OR NOT.

AND IT IS CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE.

AND WHEN YOU ENGAGE IN CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE, YOU ARE WILLING TO TAKE ON THE PUNISHMENT.

THE PROBLEM IS THEY'RE PUNISHING THEM WITH A FELONY CHARGE, NOT A TRESPASSING MISDEMEANOR CHARGE.

>> THEY DISRUPTED THAT SERVICE.

IT WAS WAY MORE THAN PROTESTING.

IT INTRUDES ON ANOTHER FUNDAMENTAL PROTECTED CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT, THE RIGHT TO ASSOCIATE IN FREEDOM AND RELIGION AND THINGS LIKE THIS.

I AGREE WITH YOU FROM A STRATEGY STANDPOINT.

I AGREE WITH THE LESSONS THAT YOU SAY WERE DRAWN.

BUT THE OPPOSITE IS ALSO TRUE, WHICH IS THAT, YOU KNOW, ILLEGAL , VIOLENT, SOMETIMES BEHAVIOR ON THE PART OF PROTESTORS, HAS NEGATIVE EFFECTS.

IT TENDS TO FRACTURE SUPPORT.

IT TENDS TO HARDEN INSTITUTIONAL RESISTANCE, GIVE OPPONENTS THE RHETORICAL UPPER HAND.

AND SO FOR THOSE REASONS, I THINK, YOU KNOW, CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE IS ONE THING.

CROSSING THE LINE IN THAT REGARD IS ANOTHER THING.

>> BUT THERE IS VERY LITTLE VIOLENCE ON THE PART OF THESE PROTESTORS.

>> BUT THERE IS ILLEGAL CONDUCT, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I MEAN JUST FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THE COURTS, THEY CERTAINLY ARE GOING TO GET AWAY-- I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THE FELONY CHARGES IN THE CHURCH.

I REALLY DON'T.

>> BUT TO YOUR POINT, LISA, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS SAID THAT DOCKS DOXING AND SIMPLY IMPEDING IS PROSECUTABLE.

JOSH, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT.

>> THE LEGAL ANGLE OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE ANGLE HERE IS INTERESTING.

THE ADMINISTRATION IS DUSTING OFF THE OLD LAWS THAT WERE NOT NECESSARILY INTENDED, AND CHARGING DON LEMON A JOURNALIST FOR COMPANY CONSPIRING UNDER THE KKK ACT FROM 1871 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

WE ARE JOURNALISTS ARE NOT HELD UNDER THAT.

NOT GOING INTO THE CHURCH AND A FELONY WAS WRITTEN ABOUT THE PROTESTING AT A ABORTION CLINIC.

THE PROTESTORS NEED LEGAL TRAINING AND THEY NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LAWS THAT HAVE TRADITIONALLY APPLIED TO THIS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT LAWS THAT ARE GOING TO BE APPLIED TO THEM AND SO THINK CREATIVELY ABOUT HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELVES AND WHAT LAWS MIGHT HELP YOU THAT YOU HAVE NOT BEEN USING.

>> OR DO WHAT THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT DO DID, GET TOGETHER A TEAM OF LAWRSZ.

CLOSER TO HOME... IF IT PASSES .

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A BILL INTRODUCED IN ALBANY WOULD REQUIRE THAT NEW YORK SCHOOLS TEACH THE HISTORY OF THE JANUARY 6TH CAPITOL RIOT AND ITS AFTERMAT.

THE BILL IS SPONSORED BY SENATOR JOHN LIU AND ASSEMBLYMAN CHARLES LAVINE, WHO SAID "WE NEED TO MAKE SURE OUR CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT THE TRUTH."

A REPUBLICAN OPPONENT SAID EQUAL ATTENTION SHOULD BE GIVEN TO THE 2020 GEORGE FLOYD RIOTS.

MEANWHILE OKLAHOMA IS REQUIRING SCHOOLS TO TEACH ELECTION CONSPIRACY THEORIES.

WHAT'S THIS ALL ABOUT?

>> IT'S AN OLD BATTLE, REALLY, THAT GOES BACK TO AT LEAST 1925 TO THE SCOPES TRIAL, WHICH WAS LITIGATING WHETHER YOU COULD TEACH EVOLUTION IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD BATTLES THROUGHOUT OUR HISTORY ABOUT CURRICULUM, ESPECIALLY ABOUT HISTORY AND CIVICS AND THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF THOSE.

BUT I WOULD HESITATE TO EQUATE THE TWO LAWS OF WHAT OKLAHOMA IS TRYING TO DO AROUND THE TEACHING OF JANUARY 6; IN OTHER WORDS, TEACHING IT AS SOMEHOW CONTROVERSIAL, THE ELECTION.

AND WHAT NEW YORK STATE IS TRYING TO DO-- I'M NOT SURE THAT NEW YORK STATE NEEDS TO DO THIS, HONESTLY.

BUT THEY'RE NOT EQUIVALENT, RIGHT?

ONE IS TRYING TO TEACH LIES AND CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND THE OTHER ONE IS JUST TEACHING HISTORY.

I THINK THE QUESTION IS SHOULD IT ELEVATE-- SHOULD THE STATE GET INVOLVED AT THAT LEVEL?

RIGHT NOW THE CURRENT LAW REQUIRES COVERAGE OF SLAVERY, HOLOCAUST AND THE IRISH POTATO FAMINE AND THOSE ARE THE ONLY THREE TOPICS THAT THE STATE REALLY REQUIRES.

THIS WOULD BE IN ADDITION TO THAT.

>> TARA, SOME FOLKS SAY THAT ALL CURRICULA ARE POLITICIZED NO MORE AND NO LESS AND CERTAINLY THE 1619 PROJECT MADE THAT VERY POINT; THAT TEACHING HISTORY ITSELF, IS A MATTER OF CHOICES.

>> OH ABSOLUTELY.

AND THAT, SADLY, IS ONE OF THE REASONS THAT I'M NOT REALLY SUPPORTIVE OF THIS BILL.

AND I'M NOT SORT OF SUPPORTIVE OF ALL OF THE TOPICS THAT ARE LISTED INSIDE BECAUSE IT IS POLITICIZED.

JUST SIMPLY IN THE CHOICE.

>> THE EVIDENCE OF THAT IS THE WORD INSURRECTION.

THAT SHOULD BE TAUGHT.

NOT RIOT.

NOT DISTURBANCE AT THE CAPITOL.

INSURRECTION IS WHAT THE STATUTE REQUIRES AND MY PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THAT TO THIS DATE, NO HUMAN BEING, NO PERSON, NO PROTESTOR HAS BEEN CHARGED WITH, LET ALONE CONVICTED WITH INSURRECTION AND SO NO COURT HAS HELD THAT THIS WAS AN INSURRECTION.

SO, TO ME, THAT IS A POLITICALLY TINGED WORD.

I MEAN I HAVE SO MANY PROBLEMS WITH THIS, I WOULD NEED MY OWN SHOW, OKAY, TO GO THROUGH THEM.

BUT EVEN THAT WORD IS EVIDENCE TO ME THAT THIS IS AN ATTEMPT TO GET STUDENTS TO ADOPT A PARTICULAR INTERPRETIVE FRAMEWORK.

THAT'S PROBLEMATIC FOR SO MANY PRESENCE REASONS.

WHAT WE SHOULD BE TEACHING STUDENTS IS HOW TO EVALUATE POSITIONS AND NOT WHICH POSITIONS TO TAKE.

>> WELL, BUT LET ME PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT ON THAT, LISA AND SAY THAT SET ASIDE THE WORD INSURRECTION.

ISN'T THIS REALLY AN EFFORT TO SAY LET'S DEAL IN FACTS.

RIGHT?

CALL IT WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT.

>> I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH DEALING FACTS.

I'M NOT SURE I WANT NEW YORK STATE LEGISLATURE TELLING US WHICH THOSE FACTS ARE.

AND REALLY THAT'S-- YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT DISPROPORTIONATE EMPHASIS.

TALK ABOUT A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OF A PROBLEM.

DO WE KNOW THAT SCHOOLS AREN'T TEACHING JANUARY 6?

DO WE HAVE ANY IDEAS OR ANYTHING TO THAT?

I THINK WE CONTINUE TO FORCE EDUCATIONAL MANDATES ON TEACHERS THAT IS GOING TO CROWD SOMETHING ELSE OUT.

WE ARE UNDERMINING THEIR PROFESSIONAL JUDGMENT.

I THINK DEPENDING ON HOW IT'S TAUGHT, AND AGAIN THE WORD INSURRECTION CONCERNS ME ENORMOUSLY.

YOU COULD END UP HAVING BACKLASH.

STUDENTS CAN REACT AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE AN INCREASE SCEPTICISM.

SO THIS COULD UNDERMINE THINGS.

SO, AGAIN, NO IS MY ANSWER TO THIS.

[LAUGHTER] >> OKAY.

SO, JOSH, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> WELL, I THINK IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO TEACH HISTORY FORM OF HELPING STUDENTS TO INTERPRET PRIMARY SOURCES.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PRIMARY SOURCES ABOUT JANUARY 6.

SOME OF-- A LOT OF US WATCHED IT HAPPEN IN REAL TIME AND THEY'RE ALL STILL OUT THERE.

SO THE NOTION THAT THERE HAS TO BE A PARTICULAR INTERPRETATION PLACED UPON IT ALMOST PUTS STUDENTS BETWEEN THE PRIMARY SOURCES, WHICH I THINK ARE FAIRLY UNY QIF EQUIVOCAL ABOUT WHAT THEY SAY.

I WILL STAND UP FOR POLITICAL SCIENCE.

A LOT OF THIS IS IN THE REALM OF POLITICAL SCIENCE AS MUCH AS IT IS HISTORY IN TERMS OF WHAT IT TELLS US ABOUT POLITICAL ELECTION AND STATISTICS AND POLITICAL PSYCHOLOGY, NOT REALLY TAUGHT AT A HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL MORE OF AN A.P.-GOV TYPE THING BUT IT CAN HELP US UNDERSTAND HISTORY FROM WHAT HAPPENED.

>> FROM THE LENS OF POLITICAL SCIENTISTS.

YAY POLITICAL SCIENCE.

TARA.

>> FS.

>> I WANTED YOUR THOUGHTS IN RESPONSE-- >> I WASN'T SURE.

NO, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH THAT.

AND I SEE THIS AS SIMPLY TEACH THE HISTORY.

TEACH THE FACTS AND THEN LET THE STUDENTS, DEPENDING ON THEIR AGE LEVEL, INTERPRET THEM.

>> TRUTH HAS A WAY OF RESONATING.

WELL NOW IT'S TIME.

-- ACTUALLY NO, I WANTED TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING AND ASK YOU THIS QUESTION ABOUT, JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A FEW MINUTES LEFT, A KOWAL MINUTES LEFT, ABOUT TEACHER TRAINING.

THERE IS THE ASSUMPTION HERE THAT EVEN POLITICAL SCIENTISTS WHO HAVE STUDIED THIS, KNOW HOW TO NAVIGATE THE VERY DIFFICULT WATERS OF PARTISAN POLARIZATION.

THAT STUFF IS IN THE CLASSROOM.

SO ARE HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS-- WELL MAYBE I SHOULD COME BACK TO YOU, JOSH.

SHOULD HIGH SCHOOL TEACHERS BE EXPECTED TO KNOW HOW TO DO THIS THE RIGHT WAY?

>> POLARIZATION TOUCHES ON A LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS IN TERMS OF PSYCHOLOGY, ECONOMICS, IDEOLOGY, A LOT OF THE SOCIAL SCIENCES ARE NOT OFFERED AT THAT LEVEL IN HIGH SCHOOLS AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND THE POLITICAL WORLD, TO KNOW NOT JUST THAT PEOPLE ARE DIVIDED BUT WHAT IT MEANS THAT THEY'RE DIVIDED AND IT MEANS THEY CAN INTERPRET REALITY DIFFERENTLY.

>> THANKS FOR THAT.

NOW IT'S TIME FOR OUR GRADE BOOKS.

ACTUALLY STARTING WITH MY OWN F FOR MISSTATING THE CASUALTIES FROM THE U.S.

OPERATION IN VENEZUELA.

MY COLLEAGUE CHAD SPAR BER CORRECTLY REMEMBERED THERE WERE ZERO AMERICAN DEATHS.

I SAID THERE WERE 30 AMERICAN DEATHS WHEN I SHOULD HAVE TALLIED 30 CUBAN DEATHS.

STILL IMPORTANT BUT DIFFERENT.

NOW WE'LL GO TO TARA FOR HER F.

>> IN A RECENT POLL, 10% OF AMERICANS SAID THAT ICE AGENTS HAVE NOT GONE FAR ENOUGH IN THEIR ENFORCEMENT OF U.S.

IMMIGRATION POLICY.

MY F GOES TO THAT 10% AND I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THEM.

IN LIGHT OF MISIDENTIFYING, ARRESTING, TASKING ILLEGAL AND ALLEGED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO.

>> LISA?

>> MY F GOES TO VERIZON FOR ITS HANDLING OF LASTER WEEK'S NATIONWIDE CELLULAR OUTAGE.

NOT THE OUTAGE ITSELF.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT THE LACK OF THE COMMUNICATION ABOUT THE SCOPE AND RISKS EVEN THOUGH EMAIL AND WEB UPDATES WERE AVAILABLE.

FOR A COMPANY THAT RUNS CRITICAL COMMUNICATIONS INFRASTRUCTURE, SILENCE ISN'T ACCEPTABLE.

>> SARAH.

>> WHEN THE E.P.A.

IS DECIDING HOW CLEAN OUR AIR SHOULD BE OR HOW MUCH WE SHOULD REGULATE A CHEMICAL, THEY OFTEN CALCULATE THE COST OF THE REGULATION AND WEIGH THESE AGAIN THE BENEFITS TO HUMAN HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT.

THIS WEEK THE E.P.A.

ANNOUNCED IT'S ONLY GOING TO CALCULATE THE COST TO COMPANIES FOR TWO DEADLY AIR POLLUTANTS.

IN OTHER WORDS, HUMAN HEALTH AND THE CLEANER ENVIRONMENT COUNTS FOR ABSOLUTELY ZERO.

THIS IS A REALLY DRAMATIC AND DANGEROUS CHANGE TO THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT USUALLY SETS POLLUTION STANDARDS AND COULD RESULT IN MUCH DIRTIER AIR AND ALL THE HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT.

>> JOSH.

>> DISCO SO THIS WEEKEND WE HAVE A STORM COMING SOMEWHERE IN AMERICA, MAYBE EVERYWHERE IN AMERICA.

NEW YORK MAYOR MAMDANI SAID THIS WEEKEND WE ARE EXPECTING 3-16 INCHES OF SNOW.

IT'S WORTH WONDERING WHY ARE WE HAVING TROUBLE FORECASTING THESE STORMS?

WELL LAID OFF A LOT OF METEOROLOGISTS.

PEOPLE SAY THEY TRUST THEIR LOCAL WEATHER PERSON MUCH THAT'S GREAT BUT WHERE DOES THE DATA COME FROM?

>> AND NOW WE ARE GOING TO TURN TO OUR AS.

STARTING AGAIN WITH YOU, TARA.

>> MY A GOES TO AMERICAN PRAIRIE WHICH IS A LAND CONSERVATION NON-PROFIT WHICH HAS REMOVED 10D WIRE ON ITS LAND IN MONTANA.

REMOVING AND RECYCLING THE THORNY FENCING ALLOWS MORE FREE RANGE FOR THE ANIMALS AND OF COURSE MEANS LESS HARM TO ANIMALS.

>> LISA.

>> MY A GOES TO ONONDAGA COUNTY FOR ITS HANDLING OF THE MAJOR WATER MAIN BREAK THAT AFFECTED TOWNS IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE COUNTY.

CREWS COMPLETED RAPID REPAIRS UNDER BRUTAL WINTER CONDITIONS AND OVER THE HOLIDAYS.

NEIGHBORING WATER SYSTEMS STEPPED UP TO STABLE STABILIZE SUPPLY.

JUST AS IMPORTANT, RESIDENTS, BUSINESSES AND VOLUNTEERS CONSERVED WATER AND ADAPTED OPERATIONS SHOWING HOW EFFECTIVE INSTITUTIONAL RESPONSE AND CIVIC RESPONSIBILITY CAN REINFORCE EACH OTHER.

>> SARAH.

>> AFTER YEARS OF DISCUSSIONS AND NEGOTIATIONS AN INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENT TO PROTECT MARINE LIFE IS NOW IN EFFECT.

THE HIGH SEAS TREATY PROTECTS INTERNATIONAL WATERS FOR THE FIRST TIME.

THESE WATERS LAY OUTSIDE THE JURISDICTIONS OF ANY COUNTRY AND COMPRISE TWO-THIRDS OF THE OCEAN.

NOW COUNTRIES CAN WORK TOGETHER TO ESTABLISH PROTECTED ZONES RICH IN BIODIVERSITY.

THIS WILL BE A LENGTHY AND COMPLICATED PROCESS BUT LEAST WE CAN GET STARTED.

>> AND JOSH.

>> MY A IS ABOUT TO STUDENT JOURNALISM.

WE HAVE HAD A LOT OF ELECTED OFFICIALS STOP BY SYRACUSE REGION FOR THE MICRON GROUNDBREAKING.

WE HAD A LUKE RIDDEL AT NEWHOUSE TO IFNT VIEW PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE UNIVERSITY.

>> THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR YOU TONIGHT.

IT WAS ACTUALLY NICE TO HEAR BACK FROM A SNY OF YOU LAST WEEK.

MARY WROTE TO SAY, "THANKS FOR THE HIGH QALITY" OF CONTENT.

PETER WOULD LIKE MORE DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES .

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AND JOHN SAID LAST WEEK'S PANEL WAS A GREAT SHOW AND STRONG GROUP.

SO WAS TONIGHT'S.

WE'D LOVE TO HEAR FROM YOU, TOO.

PLEASE WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT WITH OTHERS GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT IVORY TOWER .

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HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.