>> COMING UP NEXT ON “IVORY TOWER,” DID THE PRESIDENT'S STATE OF THE UNION ACTUALLY ADDRESS VOTER CONCERNS?

ALSO, IS IT TIME TO NATIONALIZE ELECTIONS?

AND, THE SYRACUSE COMMON COUNCIL BETS ON LICENSE PLATE READERS.

IS IT A GOOD BET?

STAY TUNED.

WE'LL BE RIGHT BACK WITH ANSWERS FROM THE PROFESSORS.

>> THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO “IVORY TOWER.” THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS JOINING ME AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE LISA DOLAK OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, LUKE PERRY OF UTICA UNIVERSITY.

BEN BAUGHMAN OF GANNON UNIVERSITY, MICHAEL TILLOTSON OF SUNY CORTLAND.

PRESIDENT TRUMP DELIVERED THE FIRST STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS OF HIS SECOND TERM.

THE SPEECH CAME WITH THE USUAL THEATRICS, SELF-CONGRATULATIONS, CONDEMNATIONS, AND PROMISES.

BUT THE PRESIDENT'S SPEECH WASN'T THE ONLY POLITICAL THEATER.

DEMOCRATS BROUGHT DRAMA OF THEIR OWN.

AS TEMPTING AS IT MIGHT BE FOR US TO SPEND MORE TIME ON THE SPECTACLE OF IT ALL, WE'VE DECIDED HERE ON “IVORY TOWER” TO FOCUS INSTEAD ON SUBSTANCE, ON POLICY.

STARTING WITH WHETHER THE PRESIDENT'S READ OF THE STATE OF THE UNION IS ON THE SAME PAGE AS VOTERS.

MICHAEL, HEADING INTO THE SPEECH, THE PRESIDENT WAS UNDER WATER IN THE POLLS WITH A 60% DISAPPROVAL JOB RATING.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, IF HE QUALIFIES HIMSELF SPEAKING FROM THE STANDPOINT OF EMOTION, OPINION, HYPOTHETICAL, CONJECTURE, THEN HE HAD A GOOD SHOWING, BUT IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE LACK OF SUBSTANCE, I THINK I WAS SURPRISED HE DIDN'T SPEND MORE TIME ON TARIFFS.

I WAS SURPRISED ON THAT BECAUSE I'VE HEARD THE ARGUMENT THAT TARIFFS ARE NOT AS BAD AS THEY'RE EXPECTED BUT WHEN YOU START TO LOOK AT THINGS, YOU SEE THAT MID SIZED BUSINESSES ARE PAYING THREE TIMES AS MUCH IN TARIFFS THAN THEY HAD BEFORE WITH A STUDY BY J.P.

MORGAN INSTITUTE.

AND WHY I THOUGHT IT WAS IMPORTANT HE TALK ABOUT TARIFFS.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO RESHORE PRODUCTION, NOT YET.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO RAISE DOMESTIC DEMAND, NOT YET.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO PUSH WAGES UP.

NOT YET.

THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO LEAVE CONSUMERS BETTER OFF.

NOT YET.

SO WHEN HE SAYS TARIFFS ARE THE BEST THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO THIS COUNTRY, I'M SURPRISED HE TRIED TO MAKE THAT STATEMENT.

I KNOW HE IS A DOUBLE DOWN GUY BUT I THINK HE IS DIGGING A HOLE FOR HIMSELF.

NOT SURE HOW IT WILL TURN OUT.

>> THE HOLE SEEMS TO BE A BIG ONE, THE WASHINGTON POST POLL SHOWN BEFORE THE SPEECH SHOWS THAT IS HIS WEAKEST SPOT.

HE IS WEAK ON ALL OTHER ISSUES, ALSO, BUT ESPECIALLY TARIFFS.

YOU STARTED BY TALKING ABOUT HIS EMOTIONS.

WHY DO YOU THINK HE IS STICKING ON THIS EVEN THOUGH IT IS CLEAR THAT IT IS NOT POPULAR?

>> AT THE END OF THE DAY, DONALD TRUMP IS A SHOWMAN.

I DON'T THINK HE IS EVER GOING TO SHAKE THAT PART.

I DON'T MEAN TO BRING UP OLD MOVIES BUT I THINK ABOUT BURT LANCASTER AND THE CHARACTER ELLER GANTRY AND ANDY GRIEF ANDY GRIFFITH IN THE CHARACTER LONESOME ROSE IN THE MOVIE OIS FACING THE CROWD.

"HE CAN'T RESIST THOSE URGES.

HE CAN'T.

>> LISA DID YOU REALLY LOVE THE SHOW AS MICHAEL PUT IT.

>> IT IS EMBARRASSING THE SPECTACLE, THE STATE OF THE UNION ON THE WORLD STAGE.

BUT AS FAR AS HIS POPULARITY, I THINK IT'S THE ECONOMY, STUPID.

IT'S GOING TO BE THE ECONOMY WHEN IT COMES TIME FOR THE MID TERMS.

IT'S GOING TO BE GAS PRICES.

IT'S GOING TO BE HOW PEOPLE FEEL ABOUT GAS PRICES, HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT GROCERIES, HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT, YOU KNOW, TROTS, AND-- INTEREST RATES AND HOUSING AFFORDABILITY AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO I JUST AM NOT CONVINCED THAT THE STATE OF UNION ADDRESS IN MARCH MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE AT ALL, AND CERTAINLY NOT WITH REGARD TO THE MID MID TERMS HAPPENING IN NOVEMBER.

>> IN TERMS OF IT BEING A STATEMENT OF PRIORITIES, EVEN IF IT DOESN'T END UP SORT OF BEING FOLLOWED AFTERWARD, LUKE, DO YOU THINK THE DEMOCRATS ARE DOING ANY BETTER WITH THEIR RESPONSE FA FROM THE VIRGINIA GOVERNOR.

DID THEY GIVE A VISION FOR VOTERS THAT MAKES SENSE?

>> YES, THEY'RE FOCUSED ON POCKETBOOK ISSUES.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ACTUALLY WATCHED THE REBUTTAL.

IT WAS RELATIVELY MINIMAL AND IT'S PARTISAN DIVIDED IN TERMS OF WHO WATCHES WHAT.

PART OF THE LARGER PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE HAD UNPOPULAR PRESIDENTS FOR 10 YEARS NOW.

BIDEN AND TRUMP WERE EVICTED WITH 49 TO 50% OF THE VOTE.

THE LAST TIME WE HAD A POPULAR PRESIDENT WAS BARACK OBAMA WHO LEFT WITH THE 60% APPROVAL RATING.

UNLESS THEY'RE DIE HARD SUPPORT ERST ON EITHER SIDE, IT'S MORE OF THE SAME.

THIS NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS GOING TO BE MORE INTERESTING IN MOO IN TERMS OF WHAT THE FUTURE BRINGS.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE INDEPENDENCE IN PARTICULAR BECAUSE YOU WERE SAYING THAT YOU'VE GOT THESE FOLKS ON EITHER SIDE, IT DOESN'T REALLY MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUT INDEPENDENTS SEEM TO BE MORE TUNED IN.

THEY SOURED ON TRUMP, ESPECIALLY IN SWING STATES.

AND AFTER THE SPEECH, THEY REALLY DIDN'T, YOU KNOW, THINK ANY BETTER THANE THEY DID BEFOREHAND.

>> THE SPEECH WAS NOT SUCCESSFUL IN TRYING TO WOO INDEPENDENTS.

IT IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM FOR THE REPUBLICANS.

EVEN THOUGH THE DEMOCRATS POPULARITY IS NOT HIGH, THE ENTHUSIASM GAP IS PLUS 14 IN THEIR FAVOR WHICH THE REPUBLICANS KNOW IS GOING TO BE A PROBLEM?

>> YEAH, I THINK WHOEVER REALLY LEANS BEEF IS STARTING TO COME DOWN.

IT'S GOT TO BE SOMETHING THAT HITS THE POINTS, THAT IS CONCISE AND MESSAGING THAT IS CONTINUOUS VERSUS YELLING DURING THE STATE OF THE UNION.

I JUST THINK IT'S-- NO MATTER WHAT SIDE YOU ARE ON, THAT JUST NOT THE WAY TO WIN VOTES.

I THINK YOU ARE FEEDING INTO WHAT THE DESCRIPTION IS.

>> I AGREE WITH THAT.

I JUST-- AND I THINK WITH REGARD TO WHAT-- THE PROBLEM WITH WHAT YOU ARE SAYING IS I AGREE WITH YOU BUT THE REALITY IS THEY-- WHAT CAN THEY DO ABOUT THOSE THINGS?

THERE IS LIMITED ABILITY TO CONTROL THOSE THINGS.

THIS IS TRUE GENERALLY, RIGHTS?

DONALD TRUMP MAY BE THE OUTLIER IN THIS BUT GENERALLY THE PRESIDENT GETS UNWARRANTED CREDIT AND UNWARRANTED BLAME FOR THE STATE OF THE ECONOMY AND SO WHAT KIND OF CONCRETE THINGS COULD BE DONE.

THE DEMOCRATS DEFAULT TENDS TO BE LET'S CREATE MORE BENEFIT PROGRAMS.

>> THAT'S NOT THE VOTERS YOU ARE TRYING TO WIN BACK.

YOU HAVE TO WIN THE SUBURBANITES BACK.

THAT'S IS GOING TO BE WHAT IS GOING TO IMPACT THAT?

I'M NOT IN THAT POSITION TO KNOW.

I KNOW IF SOMEBODY IS PRESENTING ME WITH MORE THAN A CONCEPTION OF A PLAN, THAT IS A WIN FOR 2026.

>> WELL, COULD IT SIMPLY BE A SORT OF CLINTONESQUE I FEEL YOUR PAIN?

IS THAT WHAT THIS IS REALLY ABOUT?

JUST SORT OF, YOU KNOW, GETTING FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND I'M ON YOUR SIDE.

I HEAR YOU, EVEN IF I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT, LUKE.

>> THAT'S A DIFFICULT MESSAGE FOR TRUMP TO DELIVER.

CERTAINLY IT WORKS WITH HIS CORE BASE.

BUT BEYOND THAT, I DON'T THINK HE IS A FEEL YOUR PAIN KIND OF GUY.

HE MOVE WANTS TO INFLICT PAIN THAN FEEL PAIN.

AND SO THAT'S JUST HIS POLITICAL 3 TACTICS.

I THINK THE PROBLEMS TO YOUR POINT THAT LIST-- THAT TRUMP FACES ON DAY ONE HE SAID I'M GOING TO FIX CONSUMER PRICES.

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DO.

YOU CANNOT FORCE BUSINESSES TO LOWER PRICES EVEN THOUGH INFLATION HAS COME DOWN.

CONSUMER PRICES ARE STILL HIGH.

HE IS TRYING TO SAY THINGS ARE BETTER AND WE ARE TIRED OF WINNING BUT IT'S THE DEMOCRATS FAULT BUT WE ARE WINNING.

IT'S A MIXED MESSAGE.

DOESN'T WORK.

>> WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE THAT TO, MICHAEL?

I SORT OF HAVE AN IDEA.

>> THINK ABOUT JESSE JACKSON'S SECOND CAMPAIGN.

HE LEANED IN ON I FEEL YOUR PAIN.

HE GOT SEVEN MILLION VOTES IN 1988.

LET'S NOT FORGET THAT.

BUT IF THE DEMOCRATS LEAN ONLY ON MORALITY ISSUES, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO WIN.

>> QURLT ISSUES CULTURAL ISSUES.

NOT THE CULTURAL ISSUES, EITHER?

NOW REPUBLICANS HAVE AMPED UP EFFORTS TO CHANGE ELECTION PROCESSES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THE PARTY'S SAVE AMERICA ACT NARROWLY PASSED THE HOUSE AND IS NOW IN THE HANDS OF THE SENATE.

IF ENACTED IN ITS CURRENT FORM, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE TO PROVIDE PROOF OF CITIZENSHIP TO REGISTER, AND A PHOTO ID FOR IN-PERSON VOTING, IN ADDITION TO MANY OTHER CHANGES.

DEMOCRATS WANT PRETTY MUCH THE OPPOSITE, LOOSER REGISTRATION RULES AND ID REQUIREMENTS, DROP BOXES, EXPANDED MAIL-IN VOTING, AND SO ON.

ALL OF THIS AMOUNTS TO WHAT WE CALL NATIONALIZING ELECTIONS.

THE QUESTION IS, HAVE WE REACHED THE POINT WHERE WE NEED THE SAME VOTING STANDARDS IN ALL 50 STATES?

AMERICANS SAY THEY WANT SOMETHING DONE TO SECURE ELECTIONS.

>> VERY UNUSUAL SYSTEM WHERE ALL OUR ELECTIONS ARE RUN BY STATES, INCLUDING FEDERAL ELECTIONS.

IT'S MESSY, CREATES INCOHERENT VOTING PROCEDURES BUT IT HAS SOME BENEFITS IN TERMS OF MAKING IT DIFFICULT FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO OPPRESSIVE WILL I CONTROL HOW ELECTIONS WORK.

SO I HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ON THIS.

IN TERMS OF THE BILLS, THERE ARE THINGS I DON'T LIKE ABOUT EACH OF THESE BILLS.

FOR ME THE MAJOR PROBLEM IN TERMS OF OUR ELECTION IS LOW VOTER TURNOUT, RIGHT?

WE TALKED ABOUT-- I MENTIONED HOW UNPOPULAR OUR PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES WERE.

BOTH BIDEN AND TRUMP WERE ELECTED BY 25% OF ELIGIBLE ADULTS.

THAT'S BAD.

WILL AND WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX THAT.

POLICY WISE I THINK THE BEST SOLUTION IS TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT BE RESPONSIBLE TO REGISTER ALL ELIGIBLE ADULTS TO VOTE.

EVERY OTHER DEMOCRACY DOES IT THAT WAY.

WE DON'T.

WE KNOW IF PEOPLE ARE REGISTERED, THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO VOTE.

THAT'S WHAT WOULD I LIKE TO SEE IN TERMS OF FEDERAL POLICY.

>> TO DO MORE OF WHAT HAPPENED IN 1993 WITH THE MOTOR VOTER BILL PASSED UNDER DEMOCRAT CONTROL.

HAVE I TO TELL YOU LUKE, I AGREE WITH YOU ON THIS.

I'M ALWAYS SHOCKED ABOUT HOW LITTLE ATTENTION IS PAID TO GETTING FOLKS OUT TO VOTE.

AND SO WHAT DO YOU ATTRIBUTE SUCH LIMITED CONCERN FOR THAT?

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE ELECTORATE AS IT EXISTS NOW INSTEAD OF BUILDING THE ELECTORATE.

>> WELL, LIKE MANY THINGS, I THINK IT COMES TO HYPERPARTISANSHIP IS THE PROBLEM.

ON THE SURFACE BOTH SIDES DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING THESE LAWS WILL MAKE OUR ELECTION SYSTEM BETTER.

PART OF THE CALCULATION IS HOW IT WILL SERVE THEM POLITICALLY.

AND YOU KNOW, UNTIL THE BEST INTERESTS OF OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM OF OUR DEMOCRACY IS PUT FIRST BY BOTH PARTIES, IT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO GET TO WHERE WE NEED TO GO.

>> HARD TO GET PEOPLE OUT TO VOTE WHEN THE CHOICES BEFORE THEM ARE SO BLEAK.

LACK OF ENTHUSIASM PROBLEM.

I MEAN TOM ENTHUSIASM THAT IS CURRENTLY IN THE MIX IS ANTI-TRUMP SENTIMENT, RIGHT?

THAT'S IT.

AND SO PEOPLE SAY WHY BOTHER.

WHY BOTHER TO GO OUT AND VOTE?

THAT'S A BIGGER PROBLEM.

BUT ON THIS ISSUE, I WANT TO POINT OUT BECAUSE I KEEP READING IN MEDIA WELL RESPECTED MEDIA, THAT ELECTIONS ARE RUN BY THE STATES.

THAT IS TRUE.

BUT THEY NEVER SAY THAT CONGRESS UNQUESTIONABLY HAS THE POWER HERE.

I MEAN THE CONSTITUTIONAL LANGUAGE IS, YOU KNOW, CONGRESS CAN MAKE OR ALTER THOSE STATE REGULATIONS.

THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT CONSTITUTIONAL POWER.

THE QUESTION IS INSTITUTIONAL WISDOM AND WHETHER THIS MAKES SENSE.

AND FOR ME, I DO WORRY ABOUT THE PATCHWORK AND, YOU KNOW, THE TREND HAS BEEN CERTAINLY IN THE LAST 10, 15 YEARS, A LOOSENING OF ELECTION REGULATIONS.

SOME OF IT HAD TO DO WITH COVID.

AND I DO WORRY ABOUT PUBLIC CONFIDENCE.

I DON'T WORRY ABOUT FRAUD.

THERE IS NO WIDESPREAD FRAUD THAT HAS ALTERED ELECTIONS.

THE COURTS HAVE LOOKED AT THIS.

THEY HAVE BEEN CLEAR ABOUT IT.

BUT I DO WORRY ABOUT PUBLIC CONFIDENCE.

AND PART OF THIS IS THE PARTISAN DIVIDE AND THE NATURE OF THE RHETORIC THAT IS OUT THERE.

AND SO IF THERE WERE GOING TO BE NATIONAL STANDARDS, IN MY VIEW, THEY SHOULD BE MINIMUMS.

THEY COULD BE THINGS LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOME THIS LIMIT ON HOW MANY WEEKS AN ELECTION CAN GO ON FOR.

DOES IT HAVE TO BE SIX WEEKS?

NO.

I DON'T THINK SO.

SHOULD IT BE TWO TO THREE?

MAYBE.

RIGHT?

MINIMUM STANDARDS ON SECURITY AROUND MAIL-IN VOTES.

AND WITH REGARD TO VOTER I.D., THAT'S A HARD ONE.

I GUESS WHAT I DON'T-- ONLY CITIZENS ARE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE IN FEDERAL ELECTIONS?

HOW CAN THE GOVERNMENT DO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WITH REGARD TO, YOU KNOW, VERIFYING CITIZENSHIP AT THE POINT OF REGISTRATION?

BECAUSE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT VOTER I.D.

AND THEY SAY IT'S EXPENSIVE, YOU KNOW, AND THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH FRICTION CAN WE TOLERATE NOOFERRED TO-- IN ORDER TO GET IT RIGHT?

>> WELL, THE THING IS, 36 STATES ALREADY HAVE SOME FORM OF PHOTO I.D.

REQUIREMENT IN PLACE.

AND SO PART OF ME, LUKE, WONDERS WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL OF HAVING THIS BE A REQUIREMENT?

ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU'VE GOT OVER 80% OF AMERICANS WHO SUPPORT A PHOTO I.D.

BEING REQUIRED.

>> BECAUSE STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT IT WILL MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO VOTE.

AND REPUBLICANS SEEM TO THINK IT IS ONLY GOING TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR REPUBLICANS TO VOTE WHERE IT IS GOING TO VARY PER STATE.

MARYLAND'S RESEARCH DETERMINED THAT IN TEXAS IF YOU IMPLEMENTED STRICTER VOTER I.D.

LAWS YOU ARE GOING TO HURT REPUBLICANS MORE THAN DEMOCRATS.

I THINK THERE IS A MISREADING OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

AND LISA, TO HOW TO GET WHERE I SUGGESTED WE GO?

WE ALL HAVE SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBERS.

WHEN I TURNED 18, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PROMPTLY INFORMED ME I WAS ELIGIBLE TO BE DRAFTED.

I THINK WE CAN DO IT.

IT IS WHETHER WE HAVE THE WILL TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

>> MICHAEL, PART OF THE RATIONALE IS BEHIND THIS PARTICULAR BILL IS THAT NON-CITIZENS ARE VOTING.

AND THE INSTANCES OF THAT HAPPENING ARE SO RARE.

IS THIS JUST ANOTHER PART OF THE IMMIGRATION AGENDA OF THE ADMINISTRATION AND REPUBLICANS?

>> BEFORE I ANSWER THE QUESTION I WANT TO SAY THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAD THIS IDEA SEVERAL YEARS AGO, TOO.

I DIDN'T LIKE IT THEN AND I DON'T LIKE IT NOW.

BUT TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, I THINK THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR CONNECTICUT SAID IT RIGHT WHEN SHE SAID THE PRESIDENT IS PROPOSING UNCONSTITUTIONAL SOLUTION TO A PROBLEM THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

AND I THINK SHE SAID A LOT WHEN SHE SAYS THAT.

FOR ME, I THINK THAT THE IDEA OF FORCING PEOPLE TO GET DOCUMENTS WHEN, AS LUKE SAID, THEY HAVE A NUMBER ATTACHED TO THEM, SHOULD BE ENOUGH.

AND I JUST FIND IT A WAY FOR THE PRESIDENT TO POSSIBLY TAMP DOWN THE BLOOD BATH THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE G.O.P.

IN THE MID TERMS.

THAT MAY SOUND OVERLY SIMPLISTIC BUT THAT'S JUST THE WAY I SEE IT.

>> BEN, PART OF THE PUSH BACK ON THIS IS THAT IT AMOUNTS TO BEING AN UNFUNDED MANDATE.

SO STATES WOULD HAVE TO DO A TON OF THINGS IN ORDER TO IMPLEMENT THIS.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE BURDEN THIS BRINGS TO STATES AND THE FACT THAT WE COULD STILL END UP WITH SORT OF THIS UNEVENNESS BASED ON WHICH STATES CAN IMPLEMENT IT FULLY.

>> YEAH, SO I THINK IT'S A GOOD IDEA WHAT LUKE WAS SAYING, WITH THE GOVERNMENT BEING INVOLVED AND PROVIDING SOME FORM OF FREE I.D.

TO MITIGATE THAT THE BEST YOU CAN.

MY BIGGER CONCERN IS THE THAT WE ARE AT THE HIGHEST DISTRUST IN INSTITUTIONS RIGHT NOW.

AND CENTRALIZING IT WOULD BE A NIGHTMARE, JUST FROM A STANDPOINT OF WE ALREADY HAVE THIS DISTRUST AND WE ARE PUTTING THIS DISTRUST INTO ONE BODY VERSUS 50 OR 51.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME.

>> WHICH COULD ALSO MEAN THAT, YEAH, CONGRESS OVERSEES FEDERAL ELECTIONS, BUT STATES WOULD STILL OVERSEE STATE ELECTIONS.

SO IT COULD BECOME EVEN MORE CUMBERSOME.

NEXT UP... THE SYRACUSE CITY COUNCIL RECENTLY APPROVED A NEW AGREEMENT WITH A COMPANY THAT WILL USE SCANNERS TO READ LICENSE PLATES ON CARS TRAVELING THROUGH THE CITY.

IF YOU DRIVE TO WEGMANS, OR TO SCHOOL, OR TO A PLACE OF WORSHIP, YOUR LICENSE PLATE MIGHT BE SCANNED.

DATA ON WHERE YOU'VE BEEN AND WHEN COULD BE STORED BY THE COMPANY AXON, WHICH NOW HOLDS THE CONTRACT WITH THE CITY.

THE SYRACUSE POLICE DEPARTMENT SEES THE READERS AS ANOTHER VALUABLE ADDITION TO ITS CRIME-FIGHTING TOOLKIT.

ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT THE CITY'S USE OF THIS TECHNOLOGY?

ESPECIALLY THE PRIVACY ISSUES?

>> NO.

I'M NOT AT ALL.

IN FACT, I THINK THAT THEY'RE SMART TO USE IT AS A FORCE MULTIPLIER.

IT HELPS WITH INVESTIGATIONS.

IT IS A LOT LESS INTRUSIVE THAN WHAT YOU ARE CARRYING AROUND ON YOUR PERSON EVERY DAY, WHICH IS A PHONE.

AND THE PRIVATE SECTOR THAT IS ABLE TO ACCESS ALL YOUR DATA POINTS, YOUR PATTERNS, YOUR BEHAVIORS, YOUR CAR; WHEN YOU GO IN YOUR HOUSE AND IF YOU HAVE THE AMAZON THING, IT'S LISTENING ALL THE TIME.

SO THE AMOUNT OF SECURITY IS NOT ABOUT LICENSE PLATE RECOGNITION SOFTWARE THAT IS GOING TO FLAG WHENEVER THERE IS A STOLEN CAR OR A CAR THAT IS WANTED.

IT IS GOING TO ASSIST THE POLICE IN DOING THEIR JOB.

>> I MEAN THERE IS A BIG-- I AGREE WITH YOU AND I HAVE LONG SAID, INCLUDING ON THIS SHOW, THAT WHEN WE START TO TALK ABOUT PRIVACY, WE DO NEED TO BE REAL ABOUT HOW MUCH PRIVACY WE WILLINGLY GIVE UP TO PRIVATE ACTORS.

NOTWITHSTANDING THAT, THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRIVATE ACTORS SURVEILLANCE AND GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE: GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE.

IN TERMS OF THE LAW, CAN THE POLICE LOOK AT YOUR AND PHOTOGRAPH YOUR LICENSE PLATE?

SURE.

BUT CAN THEY, YOU KNOW, AGGREGATE OVER THE LONG-TERM TO THE POINT WHERE IT BECOMES, YOU KNOW, IF I CANNIVE GENERALLY HIVE EFFECTIVELY TRACKING YOUR MOVEMENTS?

NO.

THAT CROSSES INTO FOURTH AMENDMENT TERRITORY.

THESE ARE DECISIONS BY THE SUPREME COURT AND LOWER COURTS RELATING TO CELL PHONE TRACKING OF PEOPLE.

AND SO MY CONCERN REALLY IS, HOW LONG IS THIS DATA GOING TO BE KEPT, BY WHOM.

WHAT IS IT USED FOR?

ABLE TO BE FREELY ACCESSED WITHOUT A WARRANT?

WHEN IT IS MORE THAN JUST ABOUT A STOLEN CAR?

>> I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING BUT IF WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FOURTH AMENDMENT, THIS IS PUBLIC AREA.

AND THIS IS A PRIVILEGE TO BE IN A CAR AS WELL.

SO YOU'VE GOT THE PRIVILEGE OF DRIVING ON TOP OF THE FACT THAT YOU ARE IN THE MOST PUBLIC SPACE POSSIBLE.

THAT'S NOT SURVEILLANCE.

THAT IS YOU'VE GOT TO, WHEN A CRIME HAPPENS, WE ARE USUALLY REACTIVE.

WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PROPERLY INVESTIGATE IT OR WE ARE HELL ACCOUNTABLE.

AND YOU ARE ASKING THE POLICE TO DO MORE WITH LESS EVERY DAY.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT WE CAN EFFECTIVELY DO IT.

>> THE ONLY WAY.

>> AND I AGREE WITH YOU, BEN, IN THE SENSE THAT WHEN I LEAVE MY HOUSE, THE GOVERNMENT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ENFORCING THE LAWS AND I SUPPORT EFFORTS, INCLUDING SURVEILLANCE OF THEM DOING THAT.

TO LISA'S POINT, I AGREE WITH THE FACT THAT I DON'T SUPPORT THE GOVERNMENT HIRING A COMPANY TO DO THAT.

AND THEN CEDING CONTROL OF ALL THAT INFORMATION OF MY PUBLIC MOVEMENTS AND TAKING THAT OUT OF GOVERNMENT WHERE THOSE NON-GOVERNMENT ACTORS HAVE DIFFERENT MOTIVATIONS-- PROFIT-- AND HAVE DIFFERENT DECISION MAKING MECHANISMS, DIFFERENT LEVELS OF THE ACCOUNTABILITY.

THAT'S WHAT UP SETS ME.

I SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE GOVERNMENT'S ABILITY TO SURVEIL MY MOVE IN PUBLIC BUT NOT BY PRIVATE COMPANIES AND IT'S DIFFERENT FROM MY PHONE AND OTHER THINGS WHICH I CHOOSE TO BRING INTO MY HOUSE WHICH I DON'T HAVE THE CHOICE.

GOVERNMENT IS MAKING THAT DECISION FOR ME WHEN IT COMES TO THE PRIVATIZATION OF SURVEILLANCE.

>> LET ME JUMP IN HERE ON BEN'S SIDE, IF THAT IS OKAY WITH YOU, BEN.

WE HAVE FOUND, LUKE, THERE WAS A PROBLEM, RIGHT?

THAT THE SYRACUSE DATABASE WAS ACCESSED FOUR MILLION TIMES BY OTHER POLICE AGENCIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

SO COULD THE FIX TO THIS SORT OF CONCERN THAT YOU RAISE BE MORE CONTROLS?

THAT THE CITY AND THE CITY GOVERNMENT DO ITS JOB?

>> NO, THE FIX IS IF THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO SURVEIL ME IN THE INTEREST OF PUBLIC SAFETY, FINE.

THEN DO IT WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT.

DON'T HIRE SOME MULTINATIONAL CORPORATION TO DO THE JOB FOR YOU.

I UNDERSTAND LOGISTICALLY THAT'S NOT EASY BUT IT'S IN THE BETTER INTEREST OF THE AMERICAN CITIZENS.

>> TO HAVE THE POLICE DEPARTMENT DO IT IN THIS CASE.

MICHAEL, YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> HOW FAR DO WE GO WITH THIS PRIVATIZED CORPORATE POLICING BECAUSE I THINK IT'S PROBLEMATIC.

LESS AND LESS HUMAN INTERACTION.

I MEAN WHAT IS NEXT?

ROBOTS AND SELF DRIVING CARS BOOKS.

STARTING WITH YOUR F, LISA.

>> MY F GOES TO PRESIDENT TRUMP FOR THREATENING TO BLOCK THE OPENING OF THE NEARLY COMPLETED GORDIE HOWE INTERNATIONAL BRIDGE, A MAJOR U.S.-CANADA TRADE ARTERY BUILT TO RELIEVE CONGESTION AND STRENGTHEN CROSS BORDER COMMERCE.

GIVEN THAT THE THREAT CAME AFTER A SHORTLY MILLION DOLLAR DONATION FROM THE OWNER OF A COMPETING BRIDGE, THERE IS SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE PUBLIC POLICY IS BEING DRIVEN BY PUBLIC INTEREST OR PRIVATE INFLUENCE.

>> A HALF MILLION PEOPLE HAVE DIED.

UKRAINE IS DESTROYED AND FOR WHAT?

POTENTIAL MODEST BORDER GAINS?

THIS IS FOOLISH AND TRAGIC.

>> BEN.

>> MY F IS GOING TO A REPEAT CONVICTED STOW AWAY, AND THE FAILED AIRPORT SECURITY THAT ALLOWED HER TO GET PAST SECURITY MULTIPLE TIMES.

SHE IS ON PROBATION FOR STOWING AWAY FOR AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT FROM NEW JERSEY TO ITALY.

AND SHE WAS CONVICTED IN 2024 FROM FLYING TO PARIS WITHOUT A PASSPORT AND TICKET.

MULTIPLE FAILURES LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT BE HAPPENING NOWADAYS.

>> BUT COME ON, BEN.

IT'S ITALY AND PARIS.

>> THAT'S FAIR.

THE ENDS DON'T JUSTIFY THE MEANS THOUGH.

>> OKAY.

MICHAEL.

>> MY F GOES TO SO CALLED FBI DIRECTOR CASH PATEL GOING AROUND THE WORLD PRETENDING HE IS A FRATERNITY GUY DRINKING HIS FIRST BEER.

MAYBE HE WILL FOLLOW HIS DEPUTY DIRECTOR GOING BACK TO THE PODCASTSES.

>> GOVERNOR HOCHUL HAS PROPOSED REFORMS CRACKING DOWN ON STAGED CAR CRASHES AND OTHER THINGS THAT INFLATE AUTO INSURANCE COSTS.

THIS IS A SERIOUS ISSUE IN THIS STATE WHERE DRIVERS PAY SOME OF THE HIGHEST PREMIUMS IN THE COUNTRY.

UNDER NEW YORK'S NO FAULT SYSTEM THOSE ABUSES TRANSLATE DIRECTLY INTO HIGHER RATES FOR HONEST MOTORISTS.

THE DETAILS OF HER PLAN HAVE TO THAN ENSURE PROTECTIONS FOR LEGITIMATELY INJURED VICTIMS BUT PUTTING INSURANCE FRAUD AND COST THAT DRIVERS FACE FRONT AND CENTER IS A CONSTRUCTIVE STEP TOWARD EASING THE BURDEN HERE.

>> MY A GOES TO THE SORORITY AT UTICA UNIVERSITY SPENDING LAST WEEK CAMPING OUT ON CAMPUS TO HELP RAISE MONEY FOR CANCER RESEARCH AS PART OF THEIR ANNUAL DEEP FREEZE EVENT.

THE LOCAL SORORITY DATES BACK TO THE SCHOOL'S FOUNDING AND IS DEVOTED TO PHILANTHROPY TOWARDS ISSUES AFFECTING WOMEN.

>> BEN.

>> MY A GOES TO GOVERNOR HOCHUL FOR BRINGING BACK REASONABLENESS AND DISCRETION TO THE STATE OF NEW YORK.

A RETIRED GRANDFATHER'S VANITY PLATE WAS FLAGGED AND HE RECEIVED A NOTICE SAYING HE WAS NO LONGER ABLE TO USE THE PLATE BECAUSE OF THE P IN IT.

THE P BEFORE WE GO.

THANKFULLY GOVERNOR HOCHUL STEPPED IN AND GAVE THAT PLATE A PARDON.

>> I WONDER IF SHE HAD A SCANNER.

>> MY A GOES TO THE LIFE AND LEGACY OF FREEDOM FIGHTER JESSE JACKSON.

PEACE TO YOU MY BROTHER, MY OUR ANCESTORS BE PLEASED.

>> INDEED, MICHAEL.

I GREW UP GOING TO OPERATION PUSH ON SATURDAYS LIKE IT WAS A CHURCH SERVICE.

EVERY WEEK PRETTY MUCH.

HE WILL BE MISSED.

OKAY, SO I WOULD LIKE TO SAY JUST ONE OTHER THING ABOUT THE AUTO INSURANCE ISSUE BECAUSE I'M SURE EVERYBODY AT THE TABLE HAS EXPERIENCED JUST SOARING INCREASES IN PRICING AND WHERE-- WHAT ARE WE DOING ABOUT THAT?

>> YEAH, I MEAN I REALLY DO-- AGAIN, I'M A LAWYER WORKING THE LEGAL SYSTEM.

I BELIEVE IN THE IMPORTANCE OF COMPENSATING LEGITIMATELY INJURED VICTIMS BUT SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE HERE AND THESE FRAUDULENT CRASHES THAT ARE STAGED ARE A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM IN THIS STATE, INCLUDING, YOU KNOW, PARTICULARLY DOWNSTATE.

AND I APPLAUD HER FOR AT LEAST PUTTING THIS ISSUE ON THE TABLE AND I'M HOPING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE LEGISLATION COMES OUT THE RIGHT WAY WITH THE RIGHT, YOU KNOW, ATTENTION TO TRUE VICTIMS, BUT THERE IS JUST NO QUESTION THAT SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE AND THESE CRASHES ARE DRIVING UP OUR INSURANCE RATES.

>> YEAH, IN SOME CASES BY 30% OR MORE.

WELL, THANKS EVERYBODY AT THE TABLE, THANKS EVERYBODY FOR WATCHING AND BEING WITH US.

WE'D LOVE TO HEAR YOUR OPINIONS.

WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT ON SOCIAL MEDIA, GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M MEAN THEY MEAN THEY.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER."

GOOD NIGHT.

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