EDITION OF "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM" WHERE WE ARE CHECKING IN ON EFFORTS TO LOWER ENERGY BILLS AND HIGHLIGHTING THE CRONE PROBLEM OF CHRONIC ABCENTRAL ABSENTEE ITCH IN THE SCHOOLS.

ALL THAT AND MORE COMING UP NEXT.

THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

I'M DAVID LOMBARDO AND YOU ARE WATCHING "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM," A COLLECTION OF INTERVIEWS WITH INTERVIEWS, POLITICAL LEADERS AND POLICYMAKERS AND ADVOCATES ALL OF IT.

FIRST THIS MONTH WE ARE STARTING WITH JAMES SKOUFIS, AN ORANGE COUNTY DEMOCRAT WORKING WITH HIS COLLEAGUES TO WORK ON CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM WHEN KIDS MISS 10% OF THE SCHOOL YEAR WHICH HAS BEEN A MAJOR PROBLEM SINCE THE THE ACROSS THE STATE SINCE THE PANDEMIC.

>> I WANT TO GET INTO THE CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM.

THE MOST RECENT NUMBERS RELEASED BY THE STATE DEPARTMENT DURING AN ASSEMBLY HEARING EARLIER IN THE YEAR, THEY SAID THAT A LITTLE OVER A QUARTER OF KIDS DURING THE 2023-2024 SCHOOL YEAR WERE CHRONICALLY ABSENT MEANING THEY ARE MISSING ABOUT 10% OR MORE OF SCHOOL YEAR.

I GUESS THIS IS BASIC BUT WHY DOES THAT MATTER?

>> YEAH, SO LET'S FIRST PUT A FINE POINT ON WHAT THAT MEANS.

10% MEANS YOU ARE MISSING AT LEAST 18 DAYS OF THE SCHOOL YEAR.

AND THAT MIGHT NOT SEEM LIKE A LOT, BUT I WOULD ARGUE ONE, IT IS.

>> IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT.

ANYONE WHO IS ARGUING THAT IS NOT IN REALITY.

>> FOR MOST WHO ARE CHRONICALLY ABSENT, THE NUMBER IS MUCH HIGHER THAN 18.

>> OKAY.

>> NOW THE QUARTER OR SO IS THE AVERAGE.

LET'S ZOOM OUT.

1.

THE NUMBER IS MUCH HIGHER WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING AT HIGH SCHOOLERS WHO HAVE MORE INDEPENDENCE, HERE OLDER, WANT TO DO THEIR OWN THING.

ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, THE NUMBER IS TYPICALLY LOWER.

SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS ESPECIALLY IN LOWER INCOME MORE URBAN SETTINGS, ROCHESTER IS THE ULTIMATE OUTLIER, 72% OF MIDDLE SCHOOLERS THROUGH HIGH SCHOOLERS IN THE ROCHESTER SCHOOL DISTRICT ARE CHRONICALLY ABSENT.

72%.

ALBANY AND BUFFALO IS NORTH OF 60%.

AND SO THERE ARE SOME SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHERE LITERALLY, THE LARGE MAJORITY OF STUDENTS ARE ABSENT MORE THAN 18 TIMES A YEAR.

SO IN SOME OF MY SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN ORANGE COUNTY, PORT JERVIS, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS A SMALL CITY SCHOOL DISTRICT, PREDOMINANTLY WHITE, BY THE WAY,THEIR HIGH SCHOOL ABSENTEEISM IS PUSHING 40%.

THIS IS A PERVASIVE ISSUE AROUND THE STATE, ACROSS THE BOARD, EVEN IN SUBURBAN AND EXURBAN SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

WHY DOES THAT MATTER?

WE SPEND UNTOLD HOURS AND DAYS AND WEEKS AND MONTHS EVERY SINGLE YEAR IN THIS PLACE, THE CAPITOL, DISCUSSING HOW MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO SEND INTO CLASSROOMS AROUND THE STATE.

AND THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DEBATE THAT WE HAVE EVERY YEAR.

THERE HAS NOT BEEN HARDLY AN IOTA OF DISCUSSION ABOUT THE FACT THAT IN MANY OF THESE CLASSROOMS WE ARE DEBATING HOW MANY BILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO PUMP INTO SCHOOLS, THAT ARE CHRONICALLY MORE THAN HALF ABSENT.

MORE THAN HALF OF THE SEATS ARE CHRONICALLY EMPTY IN MANY OF THE CLASSROOMS.

THIS IS DATE WE SLIT HAVE TO FINALLY HAVE.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT WHY THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE THAT HASN'T DOMINATED EVERY SINGLE DAY HERE IN PLANET ALBANY, IS YOU THE BECAUSE IT IS ONE OF THOSE ISSUES THAT RAISES SOME UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATIONS BECAUSE WHEN I THINK ABOUT THAT HEARING THAT I MENTIONED AT THE TOP WITH REGARDS TO THE ASSEMBLY LOOKING AT THIS ISSUE, SOME OF THE THINGS THEY BROUGHT UP WAS THE IDEA THAT KIDS ARE GETTING QUOTE UNQUOTE RUBBER STAMPED AND MOVING RIGHT ALONG TO THE NEXT GRADE.

SO THAT REMOVES THIS IDEA OF I NEED TO COME TO SCHOOL THEN THE ISSUE OF PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT.

THAT IS ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL.

AND THEN THE IDEA HOW DO YOU APPROACH THIS ISSUE, DISCIPLINE IS A CONTROVERSIAL ISSUE IN SCHOOLS.

IS THAT WHY WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS OR IS IT BECAUSE IT'S A REALLY BAD PROBLEM AND NOBODY WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT?

>> I THINK IT'S A MIX OF A NUMBER OF REASONS, AND TWO OF THE THREE ARE TWO THAT YOU JUST ARTICULATED.

THE THIRD, I THINK IS THE AWARENESS IS NOT WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE IN THIS PLACE RIGHT NOW.

AND I'M GLAD THE ASSEMBLY IS HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

THEY HAD THIS PUBLIC HEARING.

WE INTRODUCED OUR LEGISLATION, WHICH I'M SURE WE'LL GET TO LATE IN SESSION, LAST YEAR, SENATOR FAHY SUBSEQUENTLY HAS JOINED AS A CO-LEADER OF THIS ISSUE IN THE STATE SENATE.

I DON'T THINK A LOT OF OUR COLLEAGUES UNDERSTAND THE DEPTHS OF THIS PROBLEM.

I THINK EVERYONE SUPERFICIALLY KNOWS IT IS SOMETHING OF A PROBLEM.

BUT UNTIL YOU ACTUALLY SEE THE NUMBERS AND THEY HIT YOU IN THE FACE, I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW GRAVE THE SITUATION IS IN A LOT OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

AND SO IT'S A MIX OF ALL THREE OF THOSE FACTORS, I THINK.

>> IN TERMS OF THE RESPONSE, THERE IS A PACKAGE OF BILLS YOU ARE PART OF AND BROADLY SPEAKING THEY INCLUDE A STATEWIDE COLLECTION OF DATA, COORDINATING A RESPONSE IN ORDER TO FIGURE OUT BEST PRACTICES AND THIS IDEA OF MAYBE PILOTING RESPONSES.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH THIS AS A POLICY RESPONSE?

>> YEAH, SO THE DATA, THE TRANSPARENCY PIECE IS AN MORE BACKDROP BUT IT'S NOT-- IT'S AN IMPORTANT BACKDROP BUT NOT GOING TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM FOR US.

>> BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE S.E.D.

HAS AT LEAST A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING.

>> THEY HAVE A GENERAL UNDERSTANDING.

THEIR DATA LAGS A YEAR OR TWO BEHIND WHERE WE ARE.

WE WANT SOME MORE REAL TIME DATA TO UP-TO-DATE TRACK WHERE THIS IS A PROBLEM AND LESS OF A PROBLEM, BUT WE REALLY NEED TO LOOK AT CONNECTICUT, ONE OF OUR NEIGHBORS TO ACTUALLY SOLVE THIS PROBLEM.

THEY'RE THE NATION LEADER.

THIS HAS BECOME AN EXACERBATED PROBLEM SINCE COVID.

AND OBVIOUSLY WE HAD REMOTE LEARN LEARNING.

I THINK PART OF WHAT IS DRIVING THIS-- AND THERE ARE SOME LONG STANDING DRIVERS FROM, YOU KNOW, PHYSICAL AND MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, TO ISSUES OF POVERTY, BUT ONE OF THE MORE RECENT ONES SINCE COVID WE HAVE HAD PEOPLE ON ZOOM AND I THINK FOR SOME FAMILIES AND FOR SOME STUDENTS, THEY STILL HAVEN'T SORT OF GOTTEN OUT OF THIS MENTALITY OF WELL, I DON'T REALLY NEED TO SHOW UP PHYSICALLY TO THE SCHOOL BUILDING.

I CAN, YOU KNOW, SORT OF TAKE THE TESTS AND DO THE HOME WORK AND NOT BE SEATED IN A CLASS BEHIND A DESK LOOKING AT A BLACKBOARD FOR HOURS ON END TO BE ABLE TO ADEQUATELY LEARN.

AND THAT'S OBJECT HAVE USUALLY A-- OBVIOUSLY A PROBLEM.

CONNECTICUT HAS PUT MONEY BEHIND THESE ATTENDANCE RESPONSE TEAMS THAT THEY HAVE SET UP IN A VARIETY OF REALLY HIGH PROBLEM SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

AND OVER THE COURSE OF JUST A SHORT AMOUNT OF TIME, WHAT WE SAW WAS THAT WHERE THEY HAVE THESE TEAMS DOING HOME VISITS AND SETTING UP PARTICULAR SOCIAL SERVICE RESPONSES WITHIN THE DISTRICT, IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL, THEY SAW A 16% INCREASE IN OR I GUESS DECREASE IN CHRONIC ABSENTEEISM WHICH IS A BETTER WAY TO FRAME IT WHICH IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT DROP IN THESE DISTRICTS AND SO THIS CAN BE RESOLVED.

WE NEED TO PUT ATTENTION AND MONEY AND FUNDING BEHIND IT SO THAT'S WHAT OUR LEGISLATION LOOKS TO DO, IN ADDITION TO THE TRACKING AND THE DATA AND THE TRANSPARENCY THAT YOU TOUCHED ON.

>> WELL, FOR A RESPONSE LIKE THAT, IS IT IMPORTANT THEN, THAT IF YOU ARE GOING TO FUND SOMETHING LIKE THAT, 1: YOU IDENTIFY THIS IS WHAT THE MONEY IS FOR.

IT'S NOT JUST PART OF THE GENERAL FOUNDATION AID.

AND 2: THE WAY IT IS AWARDED ISN'T SAY A COMPETITIVE GRANT SO THAT ONLY THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WITH THE CAPACITY TO HAVE THE GRANT WRITER CAN ACCESS IT?

>> AGREED.

AND SO TOTALLY ALIGNED WITH THE FIRST PIECE, WHICH IS THIS CAN'T JUST BE FOLDED INTO SOME LARGER SUM OF MONEY AND WE HOPE AND TRUST AND EXPECT THAT SCHOOL DISTRICTS WILL USE TO IT ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.

IT NEEDS TO BE EARMARKED.

ON THE SECOND AND LOOK THERE ARE DOM PETEING, NO PUN INTENDED.

THERE ARE COMPETING SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT HERE.

I'M IN THE SCHOOL THAT BELIEVES IT SHOULD BE NON-COMPETITIVE ARE SOME SOME OF THE REASONS YOU ARTICULATED AND BECAUSE OF HOW PERVASIVE THIS PROBLEM IS, WE SHOULD BE SENDING FUNDS AND REQUIRING THESE TEAMS THAT I DISCUSSED BEFORE IN EACH AND EVERY SCHOOL DISTRICT.

SENATOR FAHY HAS A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT APPROACH.

AND THERE ARE ARGUMENTS TO BE MADE FOR EACH.

SHE HAS A MORE PILOTED APPROACH THAT IS COMPETITIVE AND THE ARGUMENT THERE IS WELL, WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GET A STATEWIDE POT OF MONEY FOR EVERY SINGLE SCHOOL DISTRICT, LET'S AT LEAST GET OUR FOOT IN THE DOOR AND PILOT IT IN CERTAIN SCHOOL DISTRICTS, HAVE THEM COMPETE FOR A SMALLER AMOUNT OF MONEY, AND THEN IF IT GOES WELL, WE CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT THAT THIS HAS WORKED AND WE SHOULD EXPAND IT.

AND SO THERE ARE TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT.

BUT CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, I'M ALIGNED WITH THE FIRST POINT THAT YOU RAISED.

>> WELL, AS YOU POINTED OUT, THIS IS A BIGGER PROBLEM FOR HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS IN PART BECAUSE THEY HAVE MORE AUTONOMY.

THEY HAVE MORE INDEPENDENCE.

BUT THESE ARE STILL MINORS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

SO THEORETICALLY THERE SHOULD BE A GUARD RIPARIANS WHO AWARE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE MISSING SCHOOL.

NOT PEOPLE, THESE KIDS ARE MISSING SCHOOL.

SO DOES THAT OPEN THE DOOR FOR A CONVERSATION ABOUT CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES AND THEIR ROLE IN THIS OR IS THAT A CAN OF WORMS WE DON'T WANT TO UNPACK BECAUSE OUTCOMES WITH CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICE IS ARE GENERALLY NOT THAT GREAT.

>> THIS IS AN UNCOMFORTABLE ELEMENT OF WHAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE THAT HAS SOME FOLKS RUNNING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

OPPOSITE DIRECTION IN ENGAGING IN THIS DEBATE.

SO YES, AS I UNDERSTAND IT, AS SENATOR FAHY AND OTHERS WHO HAVE ENGAGED ON THIS UNDERSTAND IT, CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES IS TOTALLY HANDS OFF ON THIS ISSUE.

AND MANY SCHOOL DISTRICTS HAVE ATTEMPTED, AS A LAST RESORT, AND THAT'S THE KEY HERE-- THIS IS A MEASURE OF LAST RESORT-- REACHED OUT TO C.P.S., CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES, WHEN A PARENT IS AWARE OF A PROBLEM OF THEIR KID NOT GOING TO SCHOOL AND DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT.

AND C.P.S.

ACROSS THE STATE, WE ARE TOLD JUST THROWS THEIR HANDS UP AND SAYS NOT OUR PROBLEM.

AND SO, YES, I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO HAVE THIS UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW TO BETTER ENGAGE C.P.S.

AS A MEASURE OF LAST RESORT WHEN PARENTS ARE WILLFULLY NEGLIGENT IN EVEN ATTEMPTING OR TRYING TO DO ANYTHING TO ENCOURAGE AND GET THEIR KIDS TO TURN UP IN SCHOOL AND EDUCATE THEMSELVES.

SO, YES, OUR BILL DOES SPEAK TO THIS.

IT'S A MEASURE OF LAST RESORT.

BUT I THINK IT IS AN UNCOMFORTABLE CONVERSATION THAT WE NEED TO START HAVING.

>> WELL, SENATOR, THANK YOU FOR HAVING THIS CONVERSATION.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> I WAS TOTALLY COMFORTABLE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>> WE CREATE THAT ATMOSPHERE FOR EVERYONE.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THAT WAS JAMES SKOUFIS WHO EXPECTS TO REKINDLE THE DISCUSSION OF ABSENTEEISM WHEN STATE LAWMAKERS SKEDADDLE OUT OF ALBANY.

WE'LL NOW TURN TO TAXES.

EXAMINING PROTECTIONS AND SERVICE ARE AVAILABLE TO TAX FILERS IN THE EMPIRE STATE WITH OUR GUEST SRA CARLSON DIRECTOR OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF TAX AND FINANCE.

I WANT TO START WITH THIS IDEA OF CONSUMERS PROTECTIONS AVILLABLE FOR NEW YORKERS WHO DECIDE THAT HIRING A PROFESSIONAL TAX PREPARER IS RIGHT FOR THEM BECAUSE THERE ACTUALLY ARE CERTAIN GUARANTEES THAT NEW YORKERS SHOULD EXPECT WHEN THEY ARE HIRING SOMEONE.

SO CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH SOME OF THE IMPORTANT THINGS THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE AWARE OF OR ON THE LOOKOUT FOR?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF TAX PREPARERS ARE HONEST PROFESSIONALS BUT THERE ARE SOME TAX PREPARERS OUT THERE THAT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR POSITION OF TRUST TO SCAM THEIR CUSTOMERS OUT OF THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY.

SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE DEVELOPED THIS CONSUMER BILL OF RIGHTS REGARDING TAX PREPARERS.

IT CONTAINS THE REQUIREMENTS THAT ANY REPUTABLE PREPARER SHOULD FOLLOW.

AND IMPORTANT INFORMATION TO HELP PROTECT YOURSELF IF YOU HIRE A TAX PREPARER THIS SEASON.

SO SOME OF THE REQUIREMENTS IN THIS DOCUMENTED, MAKE SURE YOU VERIFY YOUR TAX PREPARER'S CREDENTIALS.

MAKE SURE THEY ASK ABOUT YOUR INCOME, DUX DEDUCTIONS AND FAMILY TO PREPARE AN ACCURATE RETURN AND MAKE SURE THEY ALLOW TO YOU VIEW YOUR COMPLETED RETURN BEFORE IT IS FILED AND ASK ANY QUESTIONS.

>> THE THING I TOOK AWAY FROM THE CONSUMER BILL OF RIGHTS IN THIS AREA IS THAT IT ENSURES YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A TAX EXPERT AS YOU GO INTO THIS PROCESS, IT REALLY EMPHASIZES DISCLOSURES AND FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, HAND HOLDING SO THAT YOU ARE NOT SURPRISED BY ANYTHING IN THIS PROCESS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO CERTAIN TAX PREPARERS ARE REQUIRED TO REGISTER ANNUALLY WITH THE NEW YORK STATE TAX DEPARTMENT.

THEY'RE REQUIRED TO POST A CURRENT CERTIFICATE OF REGISTRATION AT THEIR PLACE OF BUSINESS ALONG WITH A PRICE LIST OF THEIR SERVICES AND ANY OTHER FEES, ALONG WITH CONSUMER BILL OF RIGHTS.

SO YOU KNOW, DEFINITELY WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING TO HIRE A PREPARER, ASK UP FRONT, HOW MUCH IS THIS GOING TO COST ME AND MAKE SURE YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THE CHARGES.

>> BRINGING UP THE ISSUE OF THE CONSUMER BILL OF RIGHTS IS A GOOD WAY TO WEED OUT A BAD OPERATOR VERSUS A GOOD ONE BECAUSE A GOOD ONE IS GOING HAVE NO PROBLEM SAYING YEP, WE HAVE THIS BILL OF RIGHTS AND HERE ARE YOUR RIGHTS.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

SO IT'S A REALLY EASY TO FOLLOW DOCUMENT.

YOU CAN PRINT IT DIRECTLY FROM OUR WEBSITE, TAX.NY.GOV BRING THIS WITH YOU WHEN YOU ARE LOOKING TO HIRE A PREPARER AND FOLLOWING REQUIREMENTS UNDER STATE LAW.

>> STATE PREPARERS ARE NOT THE ONLY WAY TO GO BECAUSE NEW YORK HAS A NUMBER OF OPTIONS FOR FREE HELP AS WELL AS FREE FILING OPTIONS.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH SOME OF WHAT IS OUT THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

MANY ELIGIBLE NEW YORKERS QUALIFY TO USE FREE FILE SOFTWARE THAT IS AVAILABLE DIRECTLY ON OUR WEBSITE.

AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE THE TAXPAYER ASSISTANCE PROGRAM WHERE CERTIFIED TAX ASSISTANCE EMPLOYEES WILL HELP GUIDE ELIGIBLE TAXPAYERS AS THEY PREPARE THEIR STATE AND FEDERAL TAX RETURNS FOR FREE OFFERED AT LOCATIONS THROUGHOUT NEW YORK STATE.

SO FOR SCHEDULING INFORMATION AND TO EXECUTIVE A VIRTUAL OR IN-PERSON SESSION, GO TO OUR WEBSITE FOR MORE INFORMATION.

>> YEAH, AND FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE WATCHING THIS, I CAN'T UNDER SELL THE IDEA THAT YOU SHOULD VISIT TAX.NY.GOV BECAUSE YOU ARE IF DOING A GOOGLE SEARCH, YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THINGS AT THE TOP, THOSE ARE PROMOTED POSTS, AND THEY MAY HAVE ULTERIOR MOTIVES WHEREAS TAX.NY.GOV IS LOOKING OUT FOR YOU.

>> WE HAVE THIS INFORMATION ON OUR HOME PAGE RIGHT NOW FOR FILING SEASON.

AGAIN, WE ENCOURAGE NEW YORKERS, CHECK OUT THE OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE, SEE WHICH OPTIONS YOU QUALIFY FOR BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU CAN HELP SAVE HUNDREDS OF DOLLARS IN TAX PREPARATION FEES.

>> SURE.

AND RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE MIGHT JUST BE REALIZING OH YEAH, I DO HAVE TO PAY TAXES EVERY YEAR AND THEY'RE SCRAMBLING WITH THE IDEA THAT MID APRIL DEADLINE.

OBVIOUSLY YOU WANT PEOPLE TO ACT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE AND GET THINGS IN ON TIME BUT FOR PEOPLE WHO SEE THIS IS P JUST GOING TO BE SOMETHING I CAN'T GET TOGETHER ON TIME, HOW WOULD YOU VOCES THEM?

WHAT SORT OF EXTENSIONS ARE OUT THERE?

HOW SHOULD THEY APPROACH THIS 1234.

>> THERE IS PLENTY OF TIME TO FOIL YOUR RETURN.

AS WE GET CLOSER TO APRIL 15, FILING DEAD LIN, IF YOU NEED ADDITIONAL TIME TO FILE, YOU CAN REQUEST A SIX-MONTH EXTENSION ON THE WEBSITE TAX.NY.GOV, IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO KNOW THIS IS ONLY AN EXTENSION OF TIME TO FILE, NOT AN EXTENSION OF TIME TO PAY ANY TAXES DUE.

SO AGAIN WE ENCOURAGE FOLKS, FILE YOUR RETURN BY APRIL 15, PAY AS MUCH AS YOU CAN TO REDUCE ANY PENALTIES AND INTEREST.

>> AND A LOT OF THOSE FREE ADVISERS WHO ARE OUT FROM, AND THEY'RE GOING TO BE OFFERING THIS HELP THROUGH EARLY APRIL TOWARDS THAT APRIL 15 DEADLINE, RIGHT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

CHECK OUT SOME OF THE FREE FILING OPTIONS AVAILABLE ON OUR WEBSITE.

WE HAVE LOTS OF INFORMATION TO HELP NEW YORKERS MEET THEIR FILING ONLY OBLIGATIONS.

>> AND IT IS A MYTH THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO PAY YOUR TAXES IN ANY YEAR WHERE THERE'S WINTER OLYMPICS.

>> I HAVEN'T HEARD THAT MYTH BUT WE CAN RESEARCH THAT FOR YOU.

>> I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU MAKING THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

>> AND AS A REMINDER TO VIEWERS, THAT TAX DEADLINE YOU ARE GOING TO WANT TO REMEMBER IS APRIL 15.

BUT NOW WE ARE TURNING TO ENERGY COSTS IN NEW YORK AND THE POLSKY POLICY RESPONSE TO SKY HIGH UTILITY BILLS THIS WINTER MARIE FRENCH IS OUR GUEST FOR POLITICO NEW YORK, ENERGY AND ENVIRONMENT REPORTER AT CAPITOL.

I WANT TO GET INTO ENERGY PRICES RIGHT NOW.

AND FOR SOME POLICYMAKERS IN NEW YORK, THE BOOGIE MAN HERE, THE COST DRIVER THAT THEY POINT TO IS THE STATE'S 2019 CLIMATE CLEERP AND COMMUNITY PROTECTION ACT WHICH SET INTO LAW GREEN ENERGY AND GREEN EMISSION GOALS.

AND YOU CAN DEBATE WHETHER THAT ACTUALLY IS THE COST DRIVER OR NOT.

WE CAN MAYBE GET INTO THAT LATER, BUT RIGHT NOW I WANT TO TALK FIRST ABOUT WHAT STATE REGULATORS SPECIFICALLY THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, IS DOING WHICH MIGHT ACTUALLY IMPACT THAT LAW.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHAT IS AT STAKE THERE AND WHAT THEIR POWERS ARE?

>> YEAH, SO IN THE CLIMATE LAW THERE WERE BUILT IN SOME OFF RAMPS IN PARTICULAR ON THE ELECTRIC SIDE.

SO THE STATE'S CLIMATE LAW, AS YOU KNOW HAS THE GOAL OF 70% RENEWABLES BY 2030.

UNLIKELY THE STATE IS GOING TO BE ABLE TO MEET THAT.

ZERO EMISSIONS GRID BY 2040.

ZERO EMISSIONS HAS NOT YET REALLY BEEN DEFINED.

WHAT TECHNOLOGIES QUALIFY UNDER THAT HAVEN'T BEEN DEFINED, WHETHER IT COULD BE RENEWABLE NATURAL GAS, HYDROGEN, YOU KNOW, THERE IS LOTS OF DEBATE ABOUT WHAT THAT QUALIFIES AS.

>> COULD NUCLEAR BE PART OF THE CONVERSATION?

>> NUCLEAR DEFINITELY QUALIFIES AS ZERO EMISSIONS IN THE STATE'S VIEW I WOULD SAY.

WHETHER THAT WOULD BE ONLINE BY 2040 IS ANYONE'S GUESS AT THIS POINT.

WHAT THE PSC DID WAS THEY ISSUED NOT EVEN LIKE AN OFFICIAL WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS, A REQUEST FOR COMMENT, ON WHETHER THEY SHOULD OPEN A PROCESS TO LOOK AT THOSE ELECTRIC SECTOR GOALS.

>> SURE.

>> IN THE CLIMATE LAW THEY CAN CONSIDER THEM ON THE BASIS OF VARIOUS FACTORS INCLUDING YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S GOING TO IMPACT LIABILITY AND THAT KIND OF THING.

SO THEY HAVE ISSUED A REQUEST FOR COMMENT.

>> RIGHT HOW DO YOU READ INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS BECAUSE YOU POINTED OUT, IT'S NOT THEIR OFFICIAL WAY OF DOING THINGS AND IT IS MORE INFORMAL.

BUT DO YOU VIEW THIS AS THE BEGINNING OF A PROCESS THAT HAS AN INEVITABLE ENDING HERE OR IS THERE AM AMBIGUITY ABOUT HOW THIS WILL PLAY OUT?

>> THERE IS LOTS OF AMBIGUITY.

THIS IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE THE COMMISSION DOESN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING WHEN PEOPLE PETITION THEM IN THIS PARTICULAR WAY THAT THEY WERE PETITIONED IN CASE.

SO THIS WAS FROM BUSINESS GROUPS WHO ARE SKEPTICAL OF THE CLIMATE LAW FROM MEMBERS OF THE CLIMATE ACTION COUNCIL SKEPTICAL OF THE CLIMATE LAW AS WELL.

AND SO THEY ARE ASKING FOR CLARITY BECAUSE THEY BASICALLY DON'T THINK THE GRID IS GOING TO REMAIN RELIABLE IF THEY ARE NOT ABLE TO REPOWER NATURAL GAS PLANTS, WHICH RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, DEVELOPERS, INVESTORS WOULD LOOK AT NEW YORK STATE, LOOK AT THAT 2040 ZERO EMISSIONS TIMELINE AND SAY HOW CAN I RECOVER MY COSTS GO I REPOWER A GAS TOUR BUN AT THIS POINT TOUR BUN AT THIS POINT.

>> AT THE SAME TIME YOU HAVE GOVERNOR HOCHUL WHO BEGINS SUBTLY AND NOT SO SUBTLY SAYING SHE WANTS TO CHANGE THE UNDERLYING LAW AND DOING THAT AS PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS.

DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF WHAT SORT OF STATUTORY CHANGES SHE IS LOOKING TO MAKE AS PART OF THE PUSH TO POTENTIALLY REDUCE COSTS IN THE LONG RUN AND ADDRESS THAT ISSUE OF RELIABILITY IN THE LONG RUN?

IS IT CLEAR WHERE SHE IS HEADING?

>> THIS IS IMPORTANT, RIGHT.

THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION ONLY HAS SOME AUTHORITY OVER THE ELECTRIC SIDE OF THINGS.

THE GOVERNOR HAS PUBLICLY SAID SHE WANTS CHANGES IN THE BUDGET TO EXTEND SOME OF THE TIMELINES IN THE GOAL-- OR IN THE LAW.

AND ALSO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF HOW NEW YORK COUNTS EMISSIONS, WHICH SHE HAS PREVIOUSLY ALSO PUSHED FOR.

THAT WAS IN 2023.

SO THAT'S WHERE HER FOCUS IS.

SHE IS CITING THIS LAWSUIT THAT SAYS THE STATE HAD FAILED TO FOLLOW THE LAW THAT SAID THEY SHOULD ISSUE REGULATIONS BY A CERTAIN TIME TO ACHIEVE THE GOALS.

SO SHE IS POINTING TO THAT AS A MATTER OF URGE ENSKI-- URGENCY.

ENVIRONMENTAL LAWYERS DISPUTE THAT.

>> LET'S GET BACK TO THAT IDEA OF WHAT IS DRIVING COSTS BECAUSE CLEARLY THE GOVERNOR HAS STAKED OUT A POSITION ALONGSIDE REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS, ENERGY PROVIDERS THAT UTILIZE FOSSIL FUELS THAT THESE MANDATES, THE GREEN EMISSION GOALS, THE GREEN ENERGY GOALS, ARE POTENTIALLY GOING TO DRIVE UP COSTS IN THE NEAR FUTURE IF NOT ALREADY HAVING AN IMPACT.

ENVIRONMENTALISTS THOUGH, THESE ADVOCATES FOR THIS GREEN TRANSITION WHO WANT TO EMBRACE RENEWABLES ENERGY SAY THIS IS MISLEADING.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF THEIR ARGUMENT?

>> YEAH, SO ON THE ENVIRONMENTAL SIDE, THEY POINT TO A COUPLE OF THINGS, RIGHT?

THERE IS THE ISSUE THAT THE CLCPA HAS NOT REALLY BEEN IMPLEMENTED.

THERE ARE COSTS ON YOUR BILL THAT THE STATE UTILITY REGULATOR HAS SAID ARE LINKED TO THE CLIMATE LAW.

IT'S ABOUT DEPENDING ON WHAT UTILITY YOU ARE IN, IT'S ABOUT 10% OR UP TO 10%.

THAT'S THINGS LIKE ENERGY EFFICIENCY PROGRAMS, THINGS LIKE HEAT PUMP INCENTIVES BUT THE BIGGEST PORTION OF IT IS THE SUBSIDIES FOR THE STATE'S NUCLEAR FLEET.

THAT ALREADY EXISTS.

>> WHICH PREDATES THE CLCPA.

>> THAT PROGRAM DOES PREDATE THE PASSAGE OF THE CLIMATE LAW.

THAT'S CORRECT.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT THE FUTURE OF IMPLEMENTATION OF THE CLIMATE LAW IS GOING TO RAISE COSTS BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE PUT OUT A MEMORANDUM THAT SUGGESTS THAT PEOPLE'S BILLS ARE GOING TO GO UP THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN TERMS OF THEIR OVERALL ENERGY COSTS.

YOU KNOW, HOW ARE THE ENVIRONMENTALISTS DISPUTING THOSE NUMBERS?

>> WELL FIRST IN THE SHORT-TERM, THEY'RE POINTING OUT THE FACT THAT RIGHT NOW A LOT OF THE PRICE INCREASES YOU ARE SEEING ARE BECAUSE OF NATURAL GAS COSTS AND THE VOLATILITY THERE, THE MARKET AND WE COULD BE SEEING EVEN MORE OF THAT WITH THE WAR IN IRAN.

SO, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE POINTING TO IN THE SHORT-TERM.

IN THE LONG-TERM, YEAH, THE GOVERNOR IS SAYING YEAH, IF I'M FORCED TO IMPLEMENT THIS PROGRAM THAT I SUPPORTED IN 2023, AND HAVE SAID IS THE WAY I WANT TO IMPLEMENT THE CLIMATE LAW, THEN IT WOULD COST NEW YORKERS A LOT OF MONEY.

SO SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE FORCED TO DO IT.

SHE WANTS TO CHANGE THE LAW, EXTEND THE TIMELINES AND CHANGE THE ACCOUNTING METHOD SO THAT BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO REDUCE EMISSIONS LESS ON THE WHOLE.

>> BUT THERE HAS BEEN A CONCERN THAT THE SCENARIOS THAT THEY HAVE OUTLINED WITH THEIR COST ESTIMATES ARE NOT GROUNDED IN REALITY; THAT IT TAKES THE WORST CASE TYPES OF EXPECTATIONS MOVING FORWARD AND DOESN'T ACCOUNT POTENTIAL SAVINGS.

IS THAT MATH, IS THAT ARGUMENT FROM ENVIRONMENTALISTS WORTH SPENDING TIME ON?

OR IS THAT A FLAWED CRITIQUE OF THE POTENTIAL FUTURE COSTS?

>> SO THAT, THIS MEMO THAT WAS RELEASED, YOU KNOW, WAS WRITTEN AND RELEASED BY THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION, YOU KNOW IS FOCUSED ON ESTIMATES BASED ON 2024 MODELING OF THE PRICE OF CARBON ALLOWANCE WOULD BE.

AND YOU APPLY THAT TO SOME OF THE NUMBERS THEY HAD IN THE STATE ENERGY PLAN FOR HOUSEHOLDS AND LIKE HOW MUCH THEY SPEND ON ENERGY AND HOW MUCH ENERGY THEY USE.

SO THOSE-- THEY ARE BASED ON LIKE NO PRICE CAPS FOR ALLOWANCES, NO INCREASED REBATES.

IT INCLUDES A 30% REBATE IN THE LAW ALREADY.

BUT, YOU KNOW, ENVIRONMENTALISTS ARGUE YOU COULD INCREASE THAT.

IF YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THAT INCREASE THE AMOUNT TO CONSUMERS F. YOU ARE WORRIED ABOUT THE PRICES ARE TOO HIGH, SET A CAP.

THEY SAY THEY'RE READY TO NEGOTIATE OVER THIS ISSUE AND LIKE WOULD BE WILLING TO COME TO THE TABLE AND TALK THROUGH IT AND DROP-- I GUESS NOT DROP THE LAWSUIT BUT POTENTIALLY SETTLE THE LAWSUIT; YOU KNOW, IF THE STATE ACTUALLY WERE TO IMPLEMENT THIS PROGRAM.

>> SURE.

LET'S PUT ASIDE THE LONG-TERM PROBLEMS AND THE DEBATE OVER WHAT IS DRIVING ENERGY PRICES AND TALK ABOUT THE ISSUE OF PROVIDING SOME SHORT-TERM RELIEF BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF PROPOSALS THAT HAVE BEEN FLOATED, EVERYBODY WHO IS RUNNING FOR OFFICE THIS YEAR, WHICH IS THE ASSEMBLY, THE THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION HAS APPROVED RATE INCREASES THAT ARE GOING TO COME DOWN THE PIKE.

THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE CASES IN FRONT OF THEM SOON TO CONSIDER INCREASES.

THEY'RE SORT OF MOVING TOWARD A MORE, I'VE CALLED IT AN AUSTERITY SORT OF POLICY, WHERE YOU KNOW, THE RECENT CON-ED RATE CASE WAS MUCH LOWER THAN SOME OF THE HISTORICAL ONES WE HAD SEEN IN THE COUPLE PRECEDING YEARS.

BUT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE STILL AREN'T SATISFIED BECAUSE THAT'S STILL AN INCREASE AND IT'S A REGRESSIVE COST FOR NEW YORKERS.

SHORT-TERM RELIEF OPTIONS ARE KIND OF LIMITED RIGHT NOW, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE A LOT OF THIS IS SUPPLY.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE STATE HAS RELATIVELY LITTLE CONTROL OVER AND MANY OF THE SOLUTIONS LIKE THE GOVERNOR'S IDEA OF BUILDING MORE NUCLEAR PLANTS, IS LONG-TERM.

AND ALSO DEBATABLE IN TERMS OF THE COST IMPACT.

SO THERE IS PROPOSALS YOU KNOW IN THE ASSEMBLY.

THEY HAVE PROPOSAL TO REBATE 2.6 BILLION TO PEOPLE TO ALLEVIATE ENERGY COSTS CONCERNS.

THAT'S KIND OF THE REPUBLICANS PROPOSED A REBATE AS WELL BEFORE THAT.

EVERYBODY HAS GOT PROPOSALS.

SENATOR KAVANAGH-PARKER THE ENERGY CHAIR IN THE SENATE CALLED IT A GIMMICK WHEN HE WAS ASKED ABOUT THE REBATES AND THE ASSEMBLY PROPOSED A TWO-YEAR FREEZE ON RATES INCLUDING ALREADY APPROVED RATE INCREASES, WHICH WOULD LIKELY TRIGGER SOME LEGAL CHALLENGES OR PUSHBACK FROM THE UTILITIES.

>> YOU SAY LIKELY.

I SAY MOST DEFINITELY ASSUREDLY WOULD PROBABLY HIT SOME CHALLENGES.

>> WHO KNOWS, DAVE.

WE LIVE IN STRANGE TIMES.

>> ON THAT NOTE, MARIE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> AWESOME TO BE HERE AS ALWAYS.

>> AND NOW WE ARE CHECKING IN WITH ASSEMBLYMEMBER JOHN McDONALD, A CAPITAL REGION DEMOCRAT JOINING US TO DISCUSS SERVICES PROVIDED BY PHARMACISTS AS WELL AS CARVING OUT ROOM IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT TAPS.

HERE IS OUR INTERVIEW.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME, ASSEMBLYMEMBER, APPRECIATE.

>> IT PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

>> YOU RUE ENTLY PASSED A BILL TO ENSURE PHARMACISTS GET PAID FOR DISPENSING HORMONAL CONTRACEPTIVES WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE OTHER I'D OF A COIN RECENTLY ADOPTED TO ENSURE THAT PHARMACISTS CAN DISPENSE HORMONAL-- DO YOU KNOW WHY THIS IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF A MEANINGFUL EQUATION.

>> WHEN THE GOVERNOR SIGNED THAT INTO LAW A COUPLE YEARS AGO, IMMEDIATELY THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH STARTED ALLOWING PHARMACISTS TO BILL FOR AND BE COMPENSATED FOR PROVIDING THAT SERVICE.

FOR MEDICAID.

THIS BILL SPEAKS TO COMMERCIAL HEALTH PLANS.

AND BASICALLY, WHAT THIS DOES IS RECOGNIZE IT TAKES TIME.

NOW TO BE HONEST WITH YOU BECAUSE IT CAME UP IN THE DEBATE THE OTHER DAY, REIMBURSED WE CHANGE IT TO HAVE THE REIMBURSEMENT BE OF MEDICAID OR HIGHER.

>> THAT'S BEING RESPONSIVE TO THE VETO LAST YEAR.

>> RESPONSIVE TO THE VETO MESSAGE.

THE REALITY IS THAT WE SHOULD ALLOW PHARMACISTS TO BE COMPENSATED FOR THE SERVICE.

IF THE PATIENT IS GOING TO THE DOCTOR OR NURSE PRACTITIONER OR PHARMACY, THE REALITY IS IT'S THE SAME SERVICE BEING PROVIDED.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY'RE COMPENSATED FAIRLY.

AS YOU SAID IN THE DEBATE, PHARMACISTS ARE PAID LIKE $45 FOR THAT ONE INITIAL CONSULTATION; WHICH IS ABOUT 15 TO 20 MINUTES.

BUT IF YOU GO TO A DOCTOR'S OFFICE, IT'S PROBABLY IN THE HUNDRED DOLLAR RANGE OR HIGHER.

AS MARY BETH AND I DISCUSSED ON THE FLOOR, IT SAVES THE HEALTHCARE SYSTEM MONEY.

LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, NOBODY WAS HAPPY IT WAS VETOED IN THE FALL.

THE REALITY IS WHEN YOU SIT BACK AND ACTUALLY WORK WITH THE EXECUTIVE, WHICH MYSELF AND SENATOR SKOUFIS DID, WE FIND A PATH FORWARD TO DEMONSTRATE THIS IS A COST SAVINGS.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, REDUCING BARRIERS TO PATIENTS BECAUSE THAT'S THE BIG CHALLENGE.

THAT'S WHAT IS DRIVING THIS.

>> AND I THINK BY HAVING AN INCENTIVE, BY HAVING THE FINANCIAL INCENTIVE FOR THE PHARMACIST, I IMAGINE IT IS GOING TO LEAD SOME TO REMIND CUSTOMERS THIS IS AN OPTION BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH AWARENESS THERE IS OUT THERE AMONG THE GENERAL PUBLIC THAT YOU CAN GO AND GET THAT BIRTH CONTROL PRESCRIPTION RIGHT FROM YOUR PHARMACIST.

>> THERE IS NOT A LOT OF AWARENESS.

I THINK THIS WILL HELP THE AWARENESS PERSPECTIVE.

AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S ABOUT REDUCING BARRIERS TO CARE.

THAT'S THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT.

SAME TOKEN, I THINK PEOPLE SOMETIMES-- PHARMACIES ARE FUNNY.

WE ARE EASILY ACCESSIBLE WE GET CAUGHT UP ON THE PRESCRIPTION AND YOU CAN GET YOUR GEMMY BEANS AT THE SAME TIME AND THEY ARE NOT LOOKED AT THE SAME IN THE LAST 20 YEARS.

PHARMACISTS ARE A GREAT PROO EFFECTS.

WE HAVE BEEN GRADUATING DOCTORS OF PHARMACY, HIGHLY EDUCATED JUST AS HIGHLY EDUCATED AS NURSE PRACTITIONERS AND P.A.S AND NOT TO PIT ONE AGAINST THE OTHER BECAUSE WE SHOULD ALL BE WORKING TOGETHER.

>> TO THAT END, YOU HAVE ANOTHER BILL THAT EXPANDS THE SCOPE OF THE WORK THAT PHARMACISTS ARE DOING AND I'M INTERESTED IN YOUR BILL BECAUSE IT EXPANDS THE TYPE OF TESTS THAT YOU WANT TO ALLOW LICENSED PHARMACISTS TO ORDER AND ADMINISTER.

ARE PHARMACISTS ALREADY ORDERING TESTS.

>> WE ARE CURRENTLY ABLE TO DO FLU VIRUS-- TEST FOR VIRUS AND TEST FOR COVID.

WE WANT TO EXPAND THIS TO RSV AND PNEUMONIA BUT ALSO AS IS DONE IN MANY OTHER STATES AND ONCE AGAIN THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, THE COMMISSIONER WOULD ISSUE A STANDING ORDER BECAUSE IT'S PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD.

IF YOU'VE GOT FLU, IF YOU'VE GOT RSV OR PNEUMONIA, THERE IS A STANDARD PROTOCOL WHAT PRESCRIPTION PATIENTS SHOULD TAKE.

YOU TAKE INTO THE-- YOU COME INTO THE PHARMACY NOT FEELING WELL, THERE ARE TESTS OUT THERE THAT ARE NOT EXTRAORDINARILY EXPENSIVE.

WE CAN TEST FOR THREE OR FOUR DIFFERENT THINGS.

DAVE, YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'VE GOT PNEUMONIA.

STANDARD PROTOCOL SAYS WE ARE GOING TO START YOU ON LEVOQUIN.

WE CAN ISSUE THE ORDER.

ISSUE THE PRESCRIPTION, FILL THE PRESCRIPTION.

DAVID GOES HOME AND STARTS TO GET IMMEDIATE CARE OPPOSED TO WHAT ELSE WOULD HAPPEN.

YOU GO TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM AND YOU KNOW IT'S WELL DOCUMENTED HERE IN THE CAPITAL REGION, ALBANY AND ST.

PETE, THEIR EMERGENCY ROOMS ARE GREAT AND OVERCROWDED.

YOU CAN WAIT THREE TO SIX HOURS TO WAIT TO SEE IF YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING AND BY THE WAY YOU ARE EXPOSED-- IF YOU WEREN'T EXPOSED GOING IN, YOU WILL BE EXPOSED GOING OUT.

THIS HELPS PROVIDE CARE TO PATIENTS, AND PARTICULARLY IN URBAN-RURAL AREAS WHERE THERE ARE A DEARTH OF PROVIDERS.

IT HELPS REDUCE SOME OF THE STRESS ON EMERGENCY ROOMS, WHICH I THINK IS IMPORTANT.

AND BY THE WAY, IT'S A MUCH LESS EXPENSIVE DELIVERY OF CARE.

YOU GO TO THE E.R., IT IS GOING TO BE A GOOD COUPLE THOUSAND OF DOLLARS EVEN IF NOTHING IS WRONG WITH YOU.

THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS IN THE SYSTEM AND THAT'S NOT GOOD FOR OUR SYSTEM.

OUR COMMERCIAL HEALTH INSURANCE IS STRUGGLING, PROVIDERS AND BUSINESSES ARE STRUGGLING AND WE NEED TO TRY TO FIND A SMARTER WAY OF DOING THINGS.

AND THAT'S WORKING WITH PROVIDERS NOT WORKING AGAINST THEM.

>> IT'S ONE THING TO AUTHORIZE THIS TYPE OF POWER FOR PHARMACISTS.

IT'S ANOTHER THING TO SEE IT IMPLEMENTED AND MADE WIDESPREAD AVAILABLE.

SO WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN IN PHARMACIES WHERE THE PHARMACISTS SEEM COMPLETELY OVERWHELMED OR THE SPACES ARE LIMITED IN TERMS OF WHERE YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO ADMINISTER A TEST.

WHAT DO YOU ENVISION HERE?

>> IT'S NOT FOR EVERY PHARMACY.

LIKE ANYTHING ELSE, PHARMACIES LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE NEEDS OF THE COMMUNITY.

IF YOU HAVE COMMUNITIES-- LISTEN, NOW IT'S MICHAEL CASHMAN'S NORTH COUNTRY AND IT USED TO BE BILLY JONES.

>> ASSEMBLYMEMBERS IN THE AREA.

>> THERE IS NOT A LARGE NUMBER OF PROVIDERS KNOCKING ON THE DOOR TO SET UP PRIMARY CARE PRACTICES.

IF THIS FITS IN YOUR PRACTICE AND SERVES YOUR COMMUNITY, WE SHOULD GIVE THEM THE OPTION TO DO IT.

WE ARE NOT SAYING THAT PHARMACIES ARE REPLACING E.R.S BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

AND WE ARE NOT IN THERE TO ELBOW OUT DOCK STORES-- DOCTORS.

THE REALITY IS WHETHER IT'S PHARMACIES, YOU TALK TO DOCTORS, YOU TALK TO NURSES, THEY'RE ALL BUSY.

WE HAVE A SYSTEM-- WE HAVE A HEALTHCARE SYSTEM IN 2026 THAT IS WORKING OFF THE LAWS AND REGULATIONS OF 1975.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

THERE ARE SO MANY SCOPE OF PRACTICE BARRIERS AND SILE OWES PUT UP-- SILOS PUT UP WE NEED TO ENCOURAGE THE PROVIDERS TO WORK TOGETHER NOT AGAINST EACH OTHER.

YOU KNOW, IT'S FUNNY.

I WAS LEGISLATIVE CHAIRMAN FOR THE PHARMACIST SOCIETY 30 YEARS AGO WHEN WE WERE ADVOCATING FOR PHARMACISTS TO HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO ADMINISTER VACCINES AND AT THE TIME THE STATE NURSE ASSOCIATION FOUGHT IT BECAUSE THEY WERE AFRAID NURSES WOULD BECOME EXTINCT.

WELL,THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

AND, BY THE WAY, 3 I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW DOCTORS AND NURSES WILL CALL US TO ASK US TO VACCINATE THEIR PATIENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE TOO BUSY DOING OTHER THINGS.

ONCE AGAIN, WE NEED TO TAKE DOWN THE SILOS.

>> LET'S TAKE YOUR LITERAL PHARMACIST HAT OFF FOR A SECOND BECAUSE YOU ARE A PHARMACIST AND PUT ON YOUR-- GLUE I ACTUALLY PLAY ONE ON TV.

>> WE ARE GLAD TO OFFER YOU THAT VENUE.

PUT ON YOUR LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAT BECAUSE YOU ARE A FORMER MAYOR AS WELL.

AND YOU'VE GOT A BILL THAT IS DESIGNED TO ADDRESS BUSINESS IMPROVEMENT DISTRICTS AND HOW THEY FACTOR INTO THE LOCAL TAX CAPS AND FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T REMEMBER, THESE ARE THE THRESHOLDS THAT ARE SORT OF ARTIFICIALLY IMPOSED ON MUNICIPALITIES IF THEY WANT TO GO ABOVE THAT IN TERMS OF INCREASING TAXES THEY NEED A SUPER MAJORITY VOTE.

YOU ARE LOOKING TO CARVE THEM OUT FROM THE CALCULATION.

WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT CAVEAT?

>> BUSINESS PRIVILEGES, TROY, SCHENECTADY, CITY OF ALBANY HAVE THREE OF THEM.

THAT'S WHERE THE PROPERTY OWNERS RAISE THEIR HANDS AND SAY MASTER, PLEASE TAX ME MORE BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO USE THAT MONEY FOR ADDITIONAL SERVICES THAT THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY DOESN'T NEED OR DOESN'T WANT.

THE REALITY IS, WHEN THE TAX QAP WAS ESTABLISHED AND I'M NOT AGAINST THE TAX CAP BUT THAT BID LEVY IS FACTORED INTO THE OVERALL CALCULATION AND WHAT HAPPENS BASICALLY IS THAT THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE NOW HAS TO HAVE THIS BID TAX ADDED INTO THE TAX CAP CALCULATION.

IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

>> ALL THE RATEPAYERS ARE NOT PAYING INTO IT.

>> TAKE THE CITY OF TROY.

BID'S IN DOWNTOWN.

THEY DO A GREAT JOB.

THEY HAVE A TAX CAP LEVY ADDED TO THE OVERALL CITY TAX CAP WHICH LIMITS THE MAYOR'S ABILITY TO USE THEIR BUDGET TO WORK ON THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE; TO HAVE THE BUDGET SPREAD OUT.

SO WHETHER IT'S MAYBE HALF A MILLION DOLLARS, IS ADDED TO THE TAX CAP THAT MEANS IT'S ANOTHER HALF MILLION DOLLARS THAT'S ONLY DEDICATED FOR A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE BID WHO, LIKE THE CONDO ASSOCIATION SAYS TAX ME MORE.

I WANT THIS MONEY FOR THESE PARTICULAR PURPOSES.

AND IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE BID BECAUSE IT INHIBITS THEM.

IT'S NOT FAIR TO THE TAXPAYERS AT LARGE OR THE RESIDENTS BECAUSE THEY'RE BEING IMPACTED, THEIR TAX CAP IS IMPACTED BY THIS AND BASICALLY IT IS GOING TO CAUSE THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO HAVE TO LIMIT SOME SERVICES TO THE COMMUNITY AT LARGE.

IT'S KIND OF COMPLICATED.

>> SURE.

>> IT'S A LITTLE BIT WONKY.

I HAD THE SAME ISSUE GOING ON WITH PILOTS.

THE TAX CAP HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A WHILE.

PERSONALLY I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOK LOOKING AT IT.

DON'T GET RID OF IT BUT LOOK AT WHERE IT IS STILL SUSTAINABLE BOUGHT R BUT WHERE ARE THERE PROBLEMS?

>> UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S A CONVERSATION FOR ANOTHER DAY.

ASSEMBLYMEMBER THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

>> PLEASURE TO BE HERE.

THANK YOU.

>> AND FINALLY, WE ARE GOING BACK TO OUR CAPITOL STUDIO WHERE TEE TALKED ABOUT THE HOCHUL ADMINISTRATION'S EFFORT TO REGULATE BUY NOW PAY LATER LENDING WITH WINSTON BERKMAN-BREEN, LEGAL DIRECTOR AT PROTECT BORROWERS.

HERE IS OUR CAPITOL PRESSROOM INTERVIEW.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME AND BEFORE WE GET INTO THE RECENTLY PROPOSED REGULATIONS FROM THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE UNDERLYING LAW AND WHAT IS AT ISSUE HERE WITH THE BUY NOW PAY LATER INDUSTRY THAT HAS TAKEN ROOT HERE IN NEW YORK; AND AROUND THE COUNTRY.

WHAT HAS THIS MEANT FOR CONSUMERS IN TERMS OF THE PRODUCTS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN OFFERED AND WHY IS IT A CONCERN FROM A CONSUMER PROTECTION PERSPECTIVE?

>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS INDUSTRY AND THE WAY THAT IT IS BEING REGULATED.

SO I THINK WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN NEW YORK WITH RESPECT TO BUY NOW PAY LATER IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN NATIONWIDE.

THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE ANYTHING UNIQUE ABOUT HOW FOLKS ARE USING IT IN NEW YORK ALTHOUGH THE STATE IS ONE OF THE FIRST TO BE AS PROACTIVE AS THEY HAVE BEEN IN TERMS OF REGULATING IT.

BUY NOW PAY LATER HAS BEEN AROUND FOR A FEW YEARS NOW AND STARTED AS A VERY SIMPLE INSTALLMENT PAYMENT SERVICE PROVIDER.

IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO A RETAIL, YOU KNOW, CLOTHING ONLINE OR IN THE STORE, YOU WANTED TO BREAK UP YOUR PURCHASE INTO FOUR OR FEWER PAYMENTS THEY WOULD OFFER THAT AS ZERO INTEREST JUST BREAK IT UP INSTEAD OF 100 UP FRONT, FOUR PAYMENTS OF 25.

FROM A CONSUMER PERSPECTIVE THAT SEEMS GOOD.

>> YEAH, ANY DIFFERENCE FROM THE IDEA OF HOLD IT ON LAYAWAY FOR ME THAT WE MIGHT HAVE HEARD IN DECADES PAST PRIOR TO THE ADVENT OF LIKE ONLINE PURCHASES?

>> THE DIFFERENCE IS THE THIRD PARTY.

SO THIS IS NOT NECESSARILY AN INSTALLMENT PLAN TO THE SELLER, THE MERCHANT WHERE AFTER 18 MONTHS YOU OWN THE SOFA OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES OR SEARS OR REFRIGERATOR.

HERE THE MERCHANT STORE IS GETTING PAID FALL BY-- AT THE POINT OF TRANSACTION AND YOU OWE A THIRD PARTY YOUR SUBSEQUENT INSTALLMENTS.

FROM A CONSUMER, THAT MIGHT FEEL EMPOWERING OR ALLOW YOU TO BUY THINGS THAT WERE UNACCESSIBLE OR SENDING YOU ON A BUYING SPREE AND YOU ARE BUYING MORE THAN YOU CAN ACTUALLY AFFORD.

THAT'S WHERE THE CONSUMER PROTECTION FRONT GETS IN.

A COUPLE OF CONSUMER PROTECTION CONCERNS.

ARE THESE LOANS?

WHEN THE INDUSTRY CAME AROUND ROUND, THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY TO SAY WE ARE NOT LOANS WE DON'T CHARGE INTEREST.

THE WAY THEY STRUCTURE THEIR PRODUCT OVER FOUR INSTALLMENTS FOR 0 INTEREST HAVE THE EFFECTIVE OF AIDING SOME-- EVADING CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS, CONSERVED OUT THE SHORTER TERM INSTALLMENT LOAN PRODUCTS FROM THEIR COVERAGE.

AND SO RIGHT OUT OF THE GATE THERE WERE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE INDUSTRY, HOW SHOULD IT BE REGULATED?

DOES IT HAVE TO COMPLY WITH NEW YORK STATE'S LENDING LAWS?

WE HAVE A LICENSED LENDER LAW.

UNDER THE BANKING LAW HAVE YOU TO GET A LICENSE IF YOU ARE DOING CERTAIN ACTIVITY IN THE STATE.

ARE THEY DOING THAT ACTIVITY?

DOES THE FACT THAT THEY SAY THEY DON'T CHARGE INTEREST MEAN IT'S NOT A LOAN?

THEN THERE IS THE QUESTION OF INTEREST.

THEY MIGHT SAY THERE IS ZERO INTEREST BUT WHEN YOU LOOK INTO THE DETAILS AND THE PROFIT MARGINS THEY'RE REALLY CHARGING HIGH LATE FEES AND LOTS OF LATE FEES.

DEFINITELY A FEATURE, NOT A BUG OF THE PRODUCT.

THEN HAVE YOU TO ASK, OKAY, THIS IS PART OF THE BUSINESS MODEL.

IS THIS A FORM OF INTEREST BY WAY OF FINANCE CHARGE?

ARE YOU EFFECTIVELY SAYING YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY US INTEREST BUT WE KNOW YOU ARE GOING TO PAY US $15 FOR A MISSED PAYMENT SO THAT BECOMES THE COST OF THE PRODUCT.

THERE WERE A LOT OF OPEN END THE QUESTIONS.

WE SAW A LOT OF BIG COMPANIES LIKE KLARNA OR AFTER PAY ENTERING THE SPACE AND IT WAS TAKING OFF WITH CONSUMERS BUT THE CONSUMER PROTECTION REGULATOR TO COMMUNITY DIDN'T CATCH UP IN THE INITIAL DAYS AND SAY COME GET LICENSED OR YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE LICENSED.

>> WITH MORE PLAYERS GETTING INTO THE SPACE, HAVE WE ALSO SEEN A CHANGE IN TERMS OF WHERE IT'S BEING APPLIED?

IS IT NOT JUST FOR THOSE TRADITIONAL ONLINE GOODS AND SERVICES THAT SOMEONE MIGHT PURCHASE?

ARE WE SEEING IT IN OTHER ASPECTS OF LIFE AS WELL.

>> YEAH, THE STORY OF BUY NOW PAY LATER IS INTERESTING.

INITIALLY IT WAS VERY MERCHANT RETAILER POINT OF SALE.

WHETHER THAT WAS ONLINE OR IN PERSON.

I THINK WE ARE ALL FAMILIAR WITH THE ONLINE CHECKOUT CART AND YOU CAN PAY WITH CREDIT CARD, PAY WITH WHATEVER FORM OR CLICK A BUTTON.

THEN WE STARTED TO SEE IT IN SOME MORE PROBLEMATIC AREAS, FOR INSTANCE WE SAW SORT OF ONLINE TECH BOOT CAMP COMPANIES, SHADY FOR PROFIT SCHOOLS OFFERING PayPal OR OTHER PAYS, WHETHER OR NOT THESE PAY BUY NOW PAY LATER KNEW THEY WERE GETTING IN BED WITH THE BAD ACTORS IS NOT THE POINT.

BUT THEY WERE STARTING TO USE IT SELL THEM HIGH COST LOW QUALITY SERVICES, BASICALLY, BAD ONLINE FOR-PROFIT SCHOOLS IS AN EXAMPLE.

SO THAT WAS SORT OF 9 USE BY BAD ACTORS OF THE EXISTING PRODUCT.

THEN WE SAW NOT NEFARIOUSLY BUT CONCERNINGLY, IT ENTERED EVERYDAY LIFE.

PEOPLE CAN REMEMBER WE STARTED TO SEE NEWS ARTICLES ABOUT PEOPLE USING BUY NOW PAY LATER FOR THEIR BURRITO.

FINANCING OUR 11-DOLLAR BURRITO OR $6 OR 20.

STILL SHOULD WE BE FINANCING OUR LUNCH.

HAS IT CREEPED INTO OUR DAY TO DAY AND THE LATEST WHICH HAS EMERGED IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS IN MY ORGANIZATION IS PEOPLE USING BUY NOW PAY LATER FOR THEIR RENT.

TAKING THEIR MONTHLY RENT AND INSTEAD OF PAYING IT IN ONE INSTALLMENT IN THE FIRST FIVE DAYS OF THE MONTH, FINANCING OUT OVER MULTIPLE INSTALLMENTS THROUGH THE COMPANIES OVER TWO, FOUR, SIX OR EIGHT WEEKS.

>> LETS TALK ABOUT THE LEGISLATIVE RESPONSE THEN.

WHAT GUARD RAILS BUS THE 2025 BUY NOW PAY LATER LAW PUT IN PLACE AND WHAT SORT OF RULES OF THE ROAD ARE BEING LEFT TO BE ANSWERED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES WITH REGULATIONS?

>> SO WHAT THE 2025 LAW DOES ESSENTIALLY IS BUY NOW PAY LATER PAY IN INSTALLMENT FOR A SPECIFIC PRODUCT OR SERVICE YOU ARE GETTING.

NOT A CREDIT CARD OR GENERAL LINE OF CREDIT OR GENERAL CONSUMER LOAN WHERE YOU GET THE MONEY AND SPEND IT.

IT'S A THIRD PARTY INSTALLMENT PLAN OR LOAN FOR A SPECIFIC PRODUCT OR SERVICE YOU ARE BUYING.

IT SAYS IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE IN THAT INDUSTRY YOU HAVE TO GET A LICENSE.

IN THAT WAY IT SIDE STEPS THE QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THAT WAS ALREADY LICENSABLE ACTIVITY IN NEW YORK.

YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION OF WHETHER YOU ALREADY NEEDED A LEND ARE LICENSE TO DO BUY NOW PAY LATER IS MOOT BECAUSE YOU DEFINITELY HAVE TO GET A LICENSE.

WITH LICENSURE COMES A LOT OF OVERSIGHT BY THE STATE.

SO YOU KNOW, THE LAW AND THE SUBSEQUENT REGULATIONS GO INTO GREAT DETAIL ABOUT THE MECHANICS OF LICENSURE ALL THE BOOKS AND RECORDS THEY HAVE TO SHARE WITH THE STATE.

WHAT THEIR ANNUAL OR ONGOING OBLIGATIONS ARE TO REPORT TO THE STATE.

BUT THEN THERE IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF SORT OF CONSUMER PROTECTIONS BOTH SORT OF IN THE FLAVOR OF GUARD RAILS LIKE IF YOU ARE GOING TO ENGAGE IN BUY NOW PAY LATER LENDING, HERE ARE THE DISCLOSURES YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE SOMEONE, HERE ARE THE MONTHLY OR PERIODIC ACCOUNT STATEMENTS HAVE YOU TO SEND.

HERE IS HOW YOU HAVE TO HANDLE CONSUMER COMPLAINTS.

THEY REALLY TELL THIS INDUSTRY FOR YOU TO OPERATE NOT JUST LAWFULLY BUT APPROPRIATELY, HERE WHAT IS WE EXPECT OF YOU AND THEN THERE IS A GRAB BAG OF DON'T ENGAGE IN HARMFUL, FRAUDULENT OR UNFAIR OR ABUSIVE CONDUCT WE LIKE TO SEE WITH ANY FINANCIAL REGULATORY LAW, THE RULES OF THE ROAD AND ALSO WHAT ONE MIGHT CALL PROHIBITIVE CONDUCT.

IT'S A COMPREHENSIVE BILL AND THE REGS THAT HAVE COME OUT SUBSEQUENTLY, RECENTLY, ADD SOME FLESH TO THAT AND SOME MORE OPERATIVE DETAILS.

>> AND STICKING WITH THE DETAILS, I'M LOOKING AT A RESTRICTION ON INTEREST RATES, CAPPED AT 16%.

PENALTY FEES BE CAPPED AT BASICALLY $8.

IT ADDRESSES A PROHIBITION ON CONVENIENCE FEES AND THERE IS AN ISSUE WITH PREPAYMENT FEES AS WELL.

DO YOU THINK THOSE EFFORTS GO FAR ENOUGH?

OR COULD WE HAVE EVEN MORE STRINGENT RULES THAT YOU THINK MAYBE WOULDN'T DETER THIS INDUSTRY FROM OPERATING IN NEW YORK AND BEING AVAILABLE?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY GO TOO FAR CERTAINLY.

I THINK THOSE ARE REASONABLE AND NECESSARY REGULATIONS AND GUARD RAILS TO MAKE SURE THAT AS THIS INDUSTRY CONTINUES TO OPERATE, BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY HERE AND SO THIS IS INFORMED BY THE LIVED EXPERIENCE OF USERS IN THE MARKET OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS.

TO MAKE SURE THIS WORKS.

THEY TOUCH ON A LOT OF THE CORE AREAS AS YOU SAID SORT OF PENALTIES AND HOW MUCH THEY CAN CHARGE.

THEY ALSO GO INTO GREAT DETAIL ABOUT DATA PRIVACY, WHICH IS A REALLY IMPORTANT ASPECT INCREASINGLY IN OUR SORT OF VERY ONLINE WORLD, AND MAKING SURE THAT ANY USE BY THE BUY NOW PAY LATER COMPANIES OF OUR DATA, ANY OF OUR DATA IS ONLY WITH CONSENT AND THAT THAT CONSENT CAN BE REVOKED SO THEY CAN'T JUST TAKE OUR DATA AND SELL IT OR USE IT FOR PURPOSES THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT OR WOULDN'T HAVE AGREED TO SO THAT DATA PRIVACY IS A GROWING PROBLEM IN THE COUNTRY AND WAS ADDRESSED I THINK, PRETTY WELL IN THESE PROPOSED REGULATIONS.

THERE ARE SOME AREAS WHERE I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE MORE CLARITY.

THIS QUESTION OF YOU KNOW, WHAT IS INTEREST.

YOU SAID THAT THEY HAVE A CAP OF 16% INTEREST, WHICH IS THE STATE CIVIL USURY CAP HERE IN NEW YORK.

IT ISN'T AS SIMPLE AS HOW MUCH ARE YOU GOING TO CHARGE ME, WHAT% APR IS A PHRASE PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE HEARD, ANNUAL PERCENTAGE RATE FOR THE COST OF BORROWING THIS MONEY OR MAKING THESE INSTALLMENT PAYMENTS.

THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF WAYS THAT WE ARE SEEING THE CURRENT BUY NOW PAY LATER INDUSTRY SUCCESSFULLY AND UNSUCCESSFULLY SEEK TO AVOID CALCULATING CERTAIN FEES AS INTEREST; FOR INSTANCE, YOU MIGHT HAVE A COMPANY THAT, IN ADDITION TO THE COST OF ANY SPECIFIC INSTALLMENT LOAN THAT THEY GIVE YOU, MIGHT CHARGE A SORT OF MONTHLY OR ANNUALLY NOME NAM ANNUAL MEMBERSHIP FEE SO NOW HAVE YOU ACCESS TO THE BUY NOW PAY LATER PLATFORM AND YOU CAN GET INDIVIDUAL LOANS AS NEEDED.

SHOULD THAT MEMBERSHIP FEE BE CALCULATED IN AS PART OF THE INTEREST RATE, IT IS PART OF THE OVERALL COST OF CREDIT, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT THAN THE INTEREST IN TERMS OF WHAT INTEREST IS CHARGED ON ANY INDIVIDUAL LOAN YOU MIGHT HAVE.

SO I DO THINK THAT THERE IS SOME ADDITIONAL DETAIL THAT COULD BE PROVIDED.

THESE ARE JUST PROPOSED REGULATIONS.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE OPEN FOR COMMENT OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS AND THEN DFS WILL TAKE THAT INFORMATION.

SIMILARLY, THERE HAS TO BE IN THE LAW REQUIRES THIS, RISK-BASEDDED UNDERWRITING THEY SAY TO MAKE SURE YOU CAN AFFORD TO MAKE ON THE LOANS.

SOME OF THESE ARE TRULY ZERO INTEREST BUT SOME YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE IT CAN BE PAID BACK WITH OR WITHOUT INTEREST.

>> HOW DO THEY ASSESS SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

ESPECIALLY IN THE CASE OF THE $6 BURRITO ANYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO EVENTUALLY BE ABLE TO PAY THAT BACK.

>> RIGHT.

THAT'S THE QUESTION.

WHAT DOES IT MEAN.

A SOFT PULL ON YOUR CREDIT REPORT?

DO YOU HAVE TO BE AWARE OF AND CHECK HOW MANY OTHER OUTSTANDING BUY NOW PAY LATER OBLIGATIONS A CONSUMER HAS.

THIS IS ONE OF THE BIG RISK WHEN IT FIRST ARRIVED IS THAT PEOPLE WOULD GET STUCK WITH STACKING OR TAKING OUT SO MANY AT ONCE BECAUSE THEY ONLY NEED TO PAY A QUARTER OF ANY ONE OF THEM UP FRONT BUT SUDDENLY THEY REALIZE THEY HAVE SEVEN QUARTERLY PAYMENTS DUE ALL ON THE SAME DAY TWO WEEKS LATER AND THEY DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO COVER 245-6789 YOU CAN TAKE OUT ONE LOAN FROM THE OTHER COMPANIES AND THEY DON'T KNOW HAVE YOU TAKEN OUT A LOAN FROM YOUR A COMPETITOR AND THEY DON'T KNOW YOU HAVE INSTALLMENTS DUE.

SO GETTING THE AT WHAT DFS'S EXPECTATION FOR THE RISK-BASED UNDERWRITING IS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT FOR THE REGULATIONS TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> GIVEN THE AMBIGUITY YOU JUST FLAGGED AND THE FACT THAT WITH ANYTHING IN REAL LIFE, PEOPLE ARE LOOKING TO MAKE MONEY, THEY'RE GOING TO GET CREATIVE.

HOW IMPORTANT IS IT THAT WHEN THESE REGULATIONS ARE IN EFFECT, THAT THE DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES IS ACTIVELY ENFORCING THEM AND IS ACTIVELY, I GUESS,WALKING THE BEAT SO TO SPEAK?

>> OH IT'S REALLY CRITICAL.

AND THIS IS TRUE OF ANY OF THE LICENSING REGIMES THEY PUT INTO PLACE.

YOU AND I HAVE TALKED BEFORE ABOUT THEY'RE NOW EMPOWERED GO AFTER FOLKS WHO ARE LICENSED WHO SHOULD BE LICENSED AND ARE NOT.

THEY NEED TO STAY ON TOP OF THAT AND IT SHOULD HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY THROUGH THE LAW AND REGULATIONS ANNUAL REPORTING REQUIREMENTS.

THE REGULATIONS AND THE LAW REQUIRES IF THE BUY NOW PAY LATER COMPANY CHANGES THEIR MODEL THEY HAVE TO TELL THE SUPERINTENDENT OF DEPARTMENT OF FINANCIAL SERVICES AND GET PERMISSION.

THERE ARE BUILT IN TOUCH POINTS BUT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT DFS TAKES THE DATA THEY'RE BEING GIVEN AND LOOK AT IT.

THEY CAN'T JUST PUT IT IN A DRAWER SOMEWHERE AND CHECK IT OFF THE LIST.

THIS COMPANY COMPLIED.

THEY HAVE TO LOOK AND SEE HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

THE LAW IS VERY PRESCRIPTIVE BUT THEY HAVE ROOM IN THEIR REGULATIONS TO REVISE, RIGHT SO THEY CAN CHECK IN ON THINGS IN A COUPLE OF YEARS BASED ON HOW THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING AND WITHIN CERTAIN PARAMETERS MAKE REVISIONS IF NECESSARY OR GO BACK TO THE LEGISLATURE AND ASK FOR A BIGGER CHANGE IF THAT IS NEEDED, TOO.

>> WELL, IS THIS THE END OF THE ISSUES AS IT PERTAINS TO FINANCIAL ACTIVITIES IN NEW YORK THAT, FOR LACK OF BETTER EXPRESSION WALK LIKE A LOAN, LOOK LIKE A LOAN, QUACK LIKE A LOAN BUT ARE NOT REGULATED LIKE A LOAN, OR IS THERE ADDITIONAL ACTIVITIES THAT STATE LAWMAKERS NEED TO IDENTIFY AND GIVE STATE FINANCIAL REGULATORS THE TOOLS TO ADDRESS?

>> CERTAINLY NOT THE END OF COMPANIES THAT ARE GOING TO TRY NOT TO BE REGULATED OR AVOID THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS AND SORT MAXIMIZE THEIR PROFITS AT THE EXPENSE OF NEW YORKERS IN VIOLATION OF NEW YORK LAW.

MAJOR INDUSTRY OUT THERE.

CERTAINLY TRYING TO GAIN FAVOR IN ALBANY IS THE EARNED WAGE ACCESS EWA, FOLKS WHO PURPORT TO GIVE YOU YOUR PAYCHECK SOONER AND THEY SAY WELL YOU EARNED MONEY BEFORE THEN, WE'LL GET IT TO YOU BEFORE THEN AND THEN ON YOUR PAYDAY WE'LL TAKE IT OUT OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT.

THAT'S JUST AN ONLINE PAYDAY LOAN.

YOU GIVE THE CHECK TO THE PAYDAY COMPANY, POST DATE IT ON THE CHECK YOUR PAYCHECK HITS, THEY CASH THE CHECK AND EVERYONE IS GOOD TO GO.

NATIONWIDE WE ARE SEEING EWA COMPANIES GO AROUND AND ASK FOR SPECIAL LICENSURE TO BE EXCLUDED FROM EXISTING LICENSURE BECAUSE THEY'RE SOMEHOW NOT A LOAN.

THEY DO THIS FOR FREE.

WHATEVER THE JUSTIFICATION MIGHT BE THEY KNOW THAT THEY'RE HERE IN NEW YORK A CURRENT EXAMPLE OF COMPANIES GOING AROUND ACTING AS IF THEY'RE NOT A DUCK IN SPITE THE FACT THAT THEY'RE QUACKING AND I IMAGINE IN FIVE YEARS WE WILL SEE A COUPLE MORE.

THERE IS NO LACK OF INVENTIVENESS IN TERMS OF BOTH THE SORT OF FINTECH INDUSTRY WHICH IS NOT 10 TIRELY CRKS I DON'T WANT TO SUGGEST THAT BUT IN TERMS OF ACTUAL CROOKS THERE IS NO LACK OF IMAGINATION IN INVENTIVENESS.

>> FINALLY, ARE THE STATE ACTIONS, ARE THEY BEING TAKEN IN A VACUUM OR IS THERE ANYTHING THAT IS BEING DONE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL TO POLICE ANY OF THE ACTIONS THAT WE HAVE LAID OUT.

>> UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THE FEDERAL AGENCY CREATED AFTER GREAT RECESSION OF FINANCIAL CRISIS MEANT TO POLICE THIS MARKET, RIGHT, TO MAKE SURE THAT IF CREDIT OR DEBT PRODUCTS CONSUMER FINANCE PRODUCTS FROM TRADITIONAL MORTGAGES TO STUDENT LOANS TO NEW THINGS LIKE EARNED WAGE ACCESS OR BUY NOW PAY LATER, THEY WERE MONITORING THEM AND MAKING SURE THAT EXISTING FEDERAL LAWS THAT APPLY TO THEM ARE BEING APPLIED.

AND ALSO DOING RESEARCH AND REPORTING ON THEM.

AND WE SAW THE CFPB PUT OUT REPORTS AN REGULATIONS ABOUT BUY NOW PAY LATER.

THIS UNDER ADMINISTRATION UNFORTUNATELY ALMOST ALL OF THOSE, WHETHER IT'S INVESTIGATIONS, LAWSUITS, REGULATIONS, REPORTS HAVE BEEN RESCINDED AFFIRMATIVELY RESCINDED AND IT'S BASICALLY BEEN TURNED OFF.

THERE IS ONGOING LITIGATION ABOUT THE FACT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS FIRED OR TRIED TO FIRE NEARLY EVERY EMPLOYEE AT THE CFPB TO MAKE IT A ZOMBIE AGENCY, TECHNICALLY UNDEAD AND ALIVE BUT DOING NOTHING.

FOR THE NEXT THREE YEARS I DON'T THINK WE CAN COUNT ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT IN A NEW ADMINISTRATION REGARDLESS OF PARTY, THAT WE WOULDN'T SEE A REINVIGORATED FEDERAL INTEREST IN BUY NOW PAY LATER OR NEW EMERGING QUOTE UNQUOTE CONSUMER FINANCE PRODUCTS SO IT'S NOT A GIVEN, BUT I DO THINK FOR THE MOMENT, NEW YORK IS OPERATING IN A VACUUM ALONGSIDE 40 OTHER STATE VACUUMS.

ALL THE STATES ARE EMPOWERED TO HANDLE THIS SIMILARLY BUT THEY SPEAK TO EACH OTHER AND LEARN FROM EACH OTHER AND NEW YORK IS A FIRST MOVER WITH RESPECT TO THE BUY NOW PAY LATER LICENSURE AND ITS COMCOMPREHENSIVENESS AND UNDERSTANDING THE COMPLEXITY OF THE MARKET AND THAT'S AN INSTANCE WHERE IT WENT OUT AHEAD BUT MIGHT LOOK TO SISTER STATES TO SEE WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON EWA OR WHATEVER THE INDICATION MAY BE.

SO FOR THE MOMENT, CERTAINLY IN A VACUUM BUT NOT INHERENTLY IN THE FUTURE.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

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