DAVID LOMBARDO >> WELCOME TO THIS MONTH'S EDITION OF "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM."

WHERE WE ARE EXPLORING SUPPORT FOR VICTIMS OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT, STATE REGULATIONS IN THE ADIRONDACKS AND LIFE IN ALBANY AS A REPUBLICAN STATE LAW FIRM LAWMAKER.

ALL THAT AND MORE COMING UP NEXT.

>> THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

>> SUPPORT COMES FROM O'DONNELL AND ASSOCIATES PUBLIC AFFAIRS FIRM PROVIDING STRATEGIC GUIDANCE TO BUSINESSES AND NON-PROFITS ON GAFF NATEING GOVERNMENT POLICY AND REGULATORY ISSUES.

♪ ♪ >> I'M DAVID LOMBARDO AND YOU ARE WATCHING "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM," A COLLECTION OF POLITICAL INTERVIEWS WITH LEADERS, POLICYMAKERS, ADVOCATES AND JOURNALISTS COVERING ALL OF IT.

UP FIRST WE WILL SHARE OUR CONVERSATION WITH STATE SENATOR ZELLNOR MYRIE WHO IS LOOKING TO UPDATE STATE LAW SO THAT SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL MUSE CONDUCT CAN SUE THEIR PERPETRATOR'S ESTATES IF THEY HAVE PASSED ON.

IN MAY, HE TOOK TESTIMONY FROM TWO OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN'S VICTIMS.

WE SPOKE WITH MYRIE ABOUT THIS EFFORT IN OUR STUDIO AT THE CAPITOL.

SENATOR MYRIE, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> THE PUBLIC TESTIMONY CAME AT A COMMITTEE MEETING WHERE LAWMAKERS ALSO CONSIDERED YOUR LEGISLATION THAT IS DESIGNED TO UPDATE NEW YORK'S LAWS GOVERNING SEX TRAFFICKING, INCLUDING PROVIDING A PATHWAY TO LAWSUITS AGAINST THE ESTATES OF ALLEGED PERPETRATORS OF AUS BOO.

YOU MADE THE CASE THAT THE STATUS QUO IS FAILING SURVIVORS.

WHAT IS IT ABOUT OUR LAWS RIGHT NOW THAT DON'T WORK FOR SURVIVORS.

>> PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THE EPSTEIN CASE.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE FAMILIAR WITH THIS NOTION THAT ABUSERS USE A WIDE NETWORK TO CARRY OUT THAT ABUSE.

AND IN THE EPSTEIN CASE, HE HAD A VAST NETWORK, BECAUSE OF HIS WEALTH, BECAUSE OF HIS PRESTIGE, BECAUSE OF HIS CIRCLES THAT HE TRAVELED IN, AND HE WAS ABLE TO ACCUMULATE A LOT OF WEALTH THAT WAS INITIALLY SEPARATE FROM HIS SEX TRAFFICKING VENTURE, BUT AS WE HAVE COME TO SEE, WITH THE RELEASE OF MORE OF THE FILES, WAS, IN FACT, VERY INTERTWINED AND THEN PROBABLY ENABLED A LOT OF THAT SEX TRAFFICKING.

AS THE LAWS STAND RIGHT NOW, THAT ESTATE CANNOT BE TOUCHED FOR WHAT WE CALL PUNITIVE DAMAGES BECAUSE THE LAW SAYS THAT WHEN SOMEONE DIES, THAT THAT ESTATE CANNOT BE HELD LIABLE FOR WHAT THAT PERSON DID WHEN THEY WERE ALIVE.

THERE IS SOME GOOD REASONS FOR THAT.

THERE ARE SOME GOOD LEGAL FOUNDATIONS IN THAT.

BUT THEY'RE NOT BASED ON THE CONSTITUTION AND THEY'RE NOT BASED IN OUR STATUTES.

THEY COME FROM WHAT WE CALL COMMON LAW.

THIS IS WHAT THE COURTS HAVE MADE UP.

BUT PUNITIVE DAMAGES ARE MEANT TO DISCOURAGE BEHAVIOR IN OUR COMMUNITIES AND OUR SOCIETY THAT WE FIND REPREHENSIBLE; THAT WE WANT TO MAKE AN EXAMPLE OUT OF.

YOU ARE GOING TO PAY EXTRA MONEY FOR THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR.

MY ARGUMENT WITH THIS BILL IS THAT SEX TRAFFICKING IS SUCH A BEHAVIOR, THAT WE WANT TO DISCOURAGE AND WE WANT TO MAKE PEOPLE WHOLE.

WE WANT SOME JUSTICE FOR THE SURVIVORS.

AND RIGHT NOW, THEY CANNOT RECOVER FROM THE EPSTEIN ESTATE.

THERE ARE CASES WHERE THE COURTS ARE TELLING THEM THIS ALL IS REALLY TERRIBLE AND TRAUMATIC WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU, BUT THE STATE LAW SAYS THAT YOU CAN'T RECOVER.

THAT'S PART OF WHY I WANTED TO INTRODUCE THIS BILL AND WHY I WANTED TO HEAR FROM THEM DIRECTLY, TO SEE EXACTLY HOW WE SHOULD CHANGE IT.

>> IT'S ONE THING TO MAKE IT SO THAT SOMEONE CAN POTENTIALLY ACCESS FUNDS THAT MIGHT HELP THEM GET COUNSELING OR MAYBE MAKE UP FOR LOST WAGES THAT THEY NEVER COULD REALIZE.

BUT PUNITIVE DAMAGES.

WHAT IS THE POINT OF MAKING IT SO YOU CAN GET PUNITIVE DAMAGES FROM SOMEONE WHO IS DEAD?

THERE IS SOME CHANCE, HOPEFULLY NO CHANCE OF THEM REPEATING THAT ACTION.

SO WHAT IS DETERRENT ISSUE THERE?

>> YOU CAN THINK ABOUT EPSTEIN'S CASES SPECIFICALLY.

AND WHEN HE FIRST STARTED GETTING CHARGED AND THERE WERE CHARGES BOTH IN FLORIDA, THERE WERE SOME BEGINNINGS OF CHARGES HERE IN NEW YORK, WHERE THEY CAN FORESEE THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BE IN LEGAL AND PERHAPS CRIMINAL TROUBLE AND SO THEY MOVE THEIR MONEY AROUND.

AND THEY STRUCTURE THEIR ESTATES SUCH THAT IT WOULD BE PROTECTED IN THE EVENT THAT THEY DIE AND THE WEALTH THAT THEY ACCUMULATED WOULD NOT TOUCH ANY ACCOUNTABILITY FROM WHAT THEY DID IN LIFE.

IF WE HAVE, ON THE BOOKS, A MEASURE FOR SURVIVORS TO GET SOME ACCESS TO THAT, TO GET PUNITIVE DAMAGES FOR REPREHENSIBLE BEHAVIOR, THE HOPE IS THAT ANY FUTURE JEFF EPSTEIN OR ANYONE ELSE KNOWS THAT THEIR CURRENT BEHAVIOR WILL HAVE AN IMPACT ON WHAT THEIR ESTATE ITSELF GOING TO BE, HOW THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO PASS ON THAT WEALTH, HOW THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO HIDE THAT WEALTH TO BENEFIT OTHER PEOPLE IN THE SYSTEM.

ONE OF THE UNIQUE THINGS THAT WE ARE DOING IN THIS BILL IS CREATING SOMETHING CALLED A SEX TRAFFICKING VENTURE IN OUR STATUTE.

ALL OF THE ENTITIES SURROUNDING JEFFREY EPSTEIN AND THE DIRECT ABUSE CAN BE HELD LIABLE IF THIS COMES INTO LAW, AND WHAT THAT IS MEANT TO DO IS TO SAY, OKAY, WELL, THE ABUSER MAY BE DEAD, BUT THE INDIVIDUALS WHO BENEFITED FROM THAT, WHO ARE STILL ALIVE, MIGHT ALSO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND LIABLE AND THAT, TO ME, IS ALSO A WAY TO DETER THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR.

>> SO IT'S ONE THING TO OPEN THE DOOR FOR THIS TYPE OF LEGAL ACTION OR CREATED IT SO THAT SOMEONE ELSE CAN BE ROPED INTO THIS TYPE OF CASE, BUT WHAT ABOUT THE THRESHOLD FOR ACTUALLY PROVING THAT YOU DESERVE PUNITIVE DAMAGES?

ARE YOU LOOKING TO REVISIT THAT STANDARD, WHICH IS, I WOULD SAY, HIGHER THAN WHAT WE MIGHT EXPECT TO POTENTIALLY GET OTHER TYPES OF PAYOUTS.

>> THAT A GREAT QUESTION AND THIS BILL AMENDS BOTH OUR CRIMINAL STATUTES AND OUR CIVIL STATUTES.

BOTH OF THOSE THINGS HAVE DIFFERENT STANDARDS OF EVIDENCE, DEPENDING ON WHAT THE PERSON IS BEING ACCUSED OF OR CHARGED WITH IN THE CRIMINAL CONTEXT.

AND THE CHANGES THAT WE ARE MAKING ON THE CIVIL SIDE, SAYS THAT IF YOU HAVE KNOWN FOR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN AND YOU HAVE TO PROVE THAT BY CLEAR AND CONVINCING EVIDENCE, THAT IS THE STANDARD BY WHICH SOMEONE MIGHT BE ABLE TO RECOVER.

THAT, TO ME, IS NOT A WHOLESALE CHANGE OF HOW WE TRADITIONALLY HOLE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

IT IS SIMPLY SAYING THAT SEX TRAFFICKING AND USING A NETWORK TO ENABLE THAT SEX TRAFFICKING, SHOULD BE REACHED IN OUR CIVIL LAW.

>> SO, TODAY YOU HEARD FROM SOME SURVIVORS OF SEX TRAFFICKING AS WELL AS AN ADVOCATE IN THIS SPACE.

ANY SURPRISES OR DID IT REINFORCE THE BELIEFS THAT YOU HAD ABOUT THIS ISSUE?

>> I HAVE TO SAY FIRST THAT I COMMEND THE WOMEN THAT CAME FORWARD AND TESTIFIED TODAY.

IT IS A HARROWING EXPERIENCE, EVEN IF YOU ARE TESTIFYING ABOUT SOMETHING RATHER BENIGN IN FRONT OF A BUNCH OF STRANGERS, IN FRONT OF A PANEL OF SENATORS, LET ALONE SOMETHING SO TRAGIC AND TRAUMATIC AS BEING A VICTIM OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN.

AND WE HAD TWO WITNESSES IN PARTICULAR, WHO WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS PUBLICLY FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER.

AND TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT, THEY HAD A PRETTY EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE, AS DID THOSE OF US ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, LISTENING.

AND THERE WERE SOME THINGS THAT WERE AFFIRMED.

BUT IT IS DIFFERENT WHEN YOU ARE IN THE ROOM AND YOU ARE HEARING IT FROM THE PERSON.

I, FRANKLY, WAS HAVING A DIFFICULT TIME KEEPING IT TOGETHER.

SOME OF WHAT WE HEARD WAS REPREHENSIBLE, ABUSE THAT STARTED WHEN SOME OF THESE WITNESSES WERE 14 YEARS OLD.

16, 15; 17 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S A HARD THING TO HEAR, EVEN IF YOU KNOW AND ARE EXPECTING IT.

IT'S MY HOPE THAT THEIR EXPERIENCE TRAGIC AS IT WAS, WILL SERVE AS A CATALYST FOR TO US DO SOMETHING HERE IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> WELL, WE'VE SEEN IN RECENT YEARS THE LEGISLATURE TAKE ACTION IN SUPPORT OF SURVIVORS OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT BUT THINGS LIKE THE CHILD VICTIMS ACT OR ADULT SURVIVOR ACT WERE BILLS THAT HAD, I WOULD SAY, INSTITUTIONS OR PEOPLE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE WENT TO BAT FOR, TO A CERTAIN DEGREE.

WHEREAS WITH YOUR LEGISLATION, I DON'T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE LINING UP TO DEFEND THE ESTATE OF JEFFREY EPSTEIN.

SO WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR ADVANCING THIS BILL?

IS THERE ANY PRACTICAL OR SUBSTANTIAL OPPOSITION THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FACE?

>> WE HAVEN'T HEARD IT YET.

AND I TAKE NOTHING FOR GRANTED HERE IN ALBANY.

THINGS THAT YOU THINK MAKE A LOT OF SENSE AND THAT SHOULD HAVE VERYINGS VERY LITTLE OPPOSITION, NOTWITHSTANDING IT WON'T GET THROUGH.

BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD ANY SUBSTANTIVE OPPOSITION TO THIS.

AND I THINK THE TESTIMONY TODAY IS GOING TO MAKE OPPOSING THIS EVEN MORE DIFFICULT.

I WILL SAY THAT WE ARE FACING A BIT OF A TIME CRUNCH GIVEN ALL OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE LEGISLATURE OR MORE APPROPRIATELY NOT HAPPENING, AND SO I THINK PART OF THE TASK THAT WE HAVE AHEAD OF US IS TRYING TO CONVINCE ENOUGH OF MY COLLEAGUES THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT REQUIRES US ACTING RIGHT NOW, IN THIS MOMENT.

JEFFREY EPSTEIN IS WHAT GETS THE ATTENTION ON THIS.

BUT THIS ISN'T JUST ABOUT HIM.

THIS IS ABOUT ALL OF THE PEOPLE THAT CANNOT MAKE THEIR WAY TO ALBANY, THAT CANNOT TESTIFY, THAT DO NOT MAKE THE HEADLINES, THE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE VICTIMS EVERY SINGLE DAY, THAT DESERVE OUR ATTENTION AND DESERVE FOR US TO ACT.

I'M HOPING THAT THIS MICROCOSM IS WHAT IS GOING TO HELP US HELP THOSE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

>> SO, YEAH, LET'S EXPAND BEYOND THE JEFFREY EPSTEIN EXAMPLE BECAUSE THERE ARE OTHER PERPETRATORS OF SUBSTANCE USE WHO-- SEXUAL ABUSE WHO HAVE PASSED AWAY AND IT WAS A LIMITING FACTOR IN EFFORTS TO BRING LAWSUITS UNDER THE ADULT SURVIVORS ACT OR CHILD VICTIMS ACT.

WHAT WOULD THIS SAY FOR THE PERSON WHO DIED AND MAYBE THEY LEFT A PENSION TO A WIDOW, MAYBE THEY LEFT A HOME TO A FAMILY MEMBER.

ARE THOSE PEOPLE, THOSE RELATIVES, ARE THEY AT RISK OF HAVING THINGS PASSED ALONG TO THEM STRIPPED AWAY UNDER THIS LEGISLATION IF IT BECAME LAW.

>> POTENTIALLY.

>> IS THAT FAIR?

>> I THINK POTENTIALLY THEY ARE, AND I THINK IT'S UP TO THE COURTS TO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS JUSTICE AND WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A FAIR OUTCOME.

I WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS UNFAIR.

THE VICTIMS WHO HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE TRAUMA.

WE HEARD FROM ONE WITNESS TODAY WHO SAYS SHE SUFFERS FROM PTSD AND DEPRESSION HAVING NOT SPOKEN ABOUT THIS FOR MANY YEARS.

THEY HAVE TO LIVE WITH THE IMPACTS OF WHAT WAS DONE TO THEM, REGARDLESS WHETHER THIS PERSON IS ALIVE OR IF THEY HAVE PASSED.

I THINK THAT WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SAY, YOU HAVE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

AND IF YOU INFLICT THIS TYPE OF DAMAGE-- AND AGAIN, THIS HAS TO GO THROUGH THE COURTS.

THERE HAS TO BE EVIDENCE.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A ROBUST BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN THE ESTATE AND BETWEEN THE PERSON WHO IS ALLEGED TO HAVE BEEN A VICTIM.

AND THE COURTS WILL DECIDE.

WHAT WE ARE PROVIDING IS AT LEAST AN AVENUE FOR THEM TO DO THIS.

RIGHT NOW THAT AVENUE DOES NOT EXIST.

I THINK THAT THAT CONVERSATION HAS HAD TO HAPPEN.

>> IS THERE A DEFENSE ATTORNEY OUT THERE WHO HANDLES THE CASE FOR ESTATE THAT IS JUST WORTH MAYBE A PENSION OR IT'S JUST WORTH A HOUSE THAT WAS HANDED DOWN.

I MEAN WHO IS GOING TO BAT FOR THOSE PEOPLE?

>> LOOK, I DON'T THINK THAT WE SHOULD BE HOLDING NECESSARILY INDIVIDUALS WHO HAVE NO CUP CULPABILITY, WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

THAT FEELS UNFAIR.

BUT I THINK THAT IF YOU BALANCE THE WEIGHTS OF JUSTICE HERE ON WHAT HARM HAS BEEN DONE TO SOMEONE WHO WAS A VICTIM AND A SURVIVOR AND THEIR ABILITY TO RECOVER, I THINK THAT THAT BALANCE AND THAT CONVERSATION HAS TO HAPPEN.

AND SOME INSTANCES THAT MIGHT MEAN THAT SOMEONE MAY LOSE OUT ON THE BENEFITS OF AN ESTATE.

I'M ARGUING THAT IN THE INTEREST OF JUSTICE, THAT IS THE RIGHT OUTCOME.

>> NEXT WE ARE GOING TO CHECK IN WITH STATE SENATOR JACOBS ASHBY, A CAPITAL REGION REPUBLICAN PUSHING LEGISLATION TO GIVE NEW YORKERS MORE FLEXIBILITY WITH THEIR INSURANCE COVERAGE IF A HEALTHCARE PROVIDER THEY RELY ON SUDDENLY BECOMES OUT OF THEIR NETWORK.

HERE IS THAT CONVERSATION FROM THE WMH-TV STUDIO.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME SENATOR.

>> THANK YOU.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

>> THE IDEA OF SOMEONE'S HEALTHCARE PROVIDER SUDDENLY BECOMING OUTSIDE OF THE NETWORK OF THEIR INSURANCE COVERAGE MIGHT SEEM LIKE A NICHE ISSUE BUT IS A PERSISTENT AND ONGOING PROBLEM HERE IN THE CAPITAL REGION.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT PEOPLE ARE DEALING WITH RIGHT NOW?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, THIS HAS BECOME MORE COMMON THAN I THINK MANY PEOPLE WOULD LIKE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, DURING THE SUMMER, WE WOULD SEE PEOPLE BECOME OUT OF NETWORK BECAUSE OF CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN INSURANCE COMPANIES AND HEALTH SYSTEMS SMS AND-- AND IN PARTICULAR WE HAD A CONSTITUENT REACH OUT TO US BECAUSE HER MOTHER HAD A CARDIOLOGY APPOINTMENT COMING UP AND THEN SHE WAS OUT OF NETWORK.

AND WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN THERE?

AND YOU KNOW, THERE WERE CARVEOUTS IN PLACE FOR SOME PEOPLE'S CARE, WHETHER IT WAS NEGATIVE-- IT'S GOING TO HAVE A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON CARE.

IT'S GOING TO END UP COSTING MORE MONEY DOWN THE ROAD BECAUSE OF THAT DISRUPTION.

SO I THINK THAT THIS BILL REALLY AIMS TO IMPROVE NOT ONLY THE QUALITY OF CARE, BUT ALSO THE CONTINUITY IN BOTH INDUSTRIES WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS.

>> AND THE RESPONSE IS TO ESSENTIALLY ALLOW SOMEONE TO GO BACK INTO THE MARKETPLACE IF THERE IS SOMEONE WHO PURCHASES HEALTH INSURANCE THROUGH THE STATE MARKETPLACE OR MAYBE LOOK AT OTHER PLANS THAT THEIR EMPLOYER OFFERS.

IF, FOR EXAMPLE, THEIR EXISTING PLAN NO LONG LONGER COVERS THAT NETWORK PROVIDER THAT THEY'RE USING.

DO YOU HAVE EXPECTATIONS THOUGH THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE A MEANINGFUL OPTION?

IS THERE REASON TO THINK THAT THERE IS ENOUGH FLEXIBILITY OR VARIETY OF INSURANCE OPTIONS THAT SOMEONE WILL BE ABLE TO FIND SOMEONE WHO COVERS THE PROVIDER THAT THEY WANT?

>> I THINK THAT IF THIS BECOMES LAW, IT'S GOING TO PROVIDE A CERTAIN LEVEL OF AUTONOMY THAT IS CURRENTLY NOT THERE.

AND THAT, AGAIN, IT WILL BENEFIT BOTH INDUSTRIES.

IT WILL BENEFIT THE PROVIDERS.

IT WILL BENEFIT THE PAYERS.

IT WILL BENEFIT THE REGULATORS, TOO BECAUSE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE-- YOU ARE GOING TO CREATE A MORE PERMISSIVE ENVIRONMENT.

>> AND IN TERMS OF THIS ISSUE MORE BROADLY, IS THIS SOMETHING WE ARE SEEING MORE AND MORE AS, SAY INDIVIDUAL DOCTORS BECOME PARTS OF LARGER SYSTEMS AND THEY GO TO BATTLE WITH THEIR INSURANCE CARRIERS OR THE INSURANCE CARRIERS GO TO BATTLE WITH LARGE MEDICAL SYSTEMS?

DO YOU SEE THIS BEING A MORE PERSISTENT PROBLEM IN THE FUTURE?

>> I CAN'T PROVIDE ANY QUANTITATIVE ANALYSIS ON THAT OBJECTIVELY.

BUT ANECDOTALLY, IT SEEMS LIKE IT.

THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS THAT WE HEAR OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, THE NUMBER OF ARTICLES, THE NUMBER OF CONVERSATIONS I HAVE WITH PEOPLE EXPERIENCING THIS PROBLEM, SEEMS TO BE RISING >> AND COMING BACK TO THE IDEA OF SOMEONE'S PROVIDER GOING OUT OF NETWORK FOR THEM, WHAT CAN THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHY IS THAT POTENTIALLY A REASON TO EXPECT THAT THERE WILL BE A BREAK IN THAT CONTINUUM OF CARE?

>> WELL, THIS CAN ARISE FROM DIFFERENT TYPES OF NEGOTIATIONS.

AND UNFORTUNATELY AT THAT POINT, THE PERSON IS CUT OFF FROM RECEIVING THE LEVEL OF CARE THAT THEY'RE ACCUSTOMED TO.

>> THEORETICALLY THEY COULD DIG INTO THEIR POCKET AND PAY MAYBE HIGHER CO-PAYS OR COST OF THAT CARE WITHOUT THE INSURANCE COVERAGE AND JUST STICK WITH THE PLAN THEY'VE GOT.

YOU ARE SMILING BECAUSE I THINK WE KNOW HOW EXPENSIVE SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD BE.

>> CORRECT.

AND I THINK THAT IS ALREADY HAPPENING, EVEN WITHOUT A DISRUPTION.

>> SURE.

>> NEGOTIATIONS TAKING PLACE FOR DIFFERENT AGREEMENTS EVEN WITHOUT A BREAK IN COVERAGE, PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING AN INCREASE IN COST, RIGHT?

NOT NECESSARILY AN INCREASE IN QUALITY OF CARE, BUT AN INCREASE IN COST.

>> I IMAGINE THAT THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE HEARING YOU TALK ABOUT THE SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM AND THEY'RE SAYING WAIT, WAIT, WAIT.

I GOT A SIMPLER SOLUTION TO THIS PROBLEM.

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE IS COVERED BY A CERTAIN INSURANCE PROVIDER, WHY DON'T WE JUST HAVE A STATE RUN INSURANCE OPTION THAT EVERYONE CAN TURN TO OR JUST HAVE A STATE TAKEOVER OF THE HEALTH INSURANCE OPTION.

WHY ISN'T THAT WHERE YOU ARE GOING WITH THIS?

OR MAYBE IS THAT POTENTIALLY SOMETHING YOU ARE INTERESTED IN AND THIS IS A PIECE MEAL OR INTERIM MEASURE TO THINK ABOUT?

>> I THINK THAT I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW PEOPLE WOULD MAKE THAT LOGICAL LEAP.

BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT IT'S FEASIBLE WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHAT SINGLE PAYER HAS LOOKED LIKE AND OTHER AREAS, WHETHER IT'S OVERSEAS OR HERE, OTHER STATES THAT HAVE ATTEMPTED THAT SMALLER STATES WITH A MORE MANAGEABLE POPULATION, VERMONT HAS TRIED THAT A FEW TIMES AND IT WOULD BANKRUPT THEIR STATE.

AND I THINK WE WOULD SEE A SIMILAR THING HAPPEN HERE.

I CAN APPRECIATE HOW PEOPLE WOULD WANT THAT, BUT I DO BELIEVE THAT IT TAKES A CERTAIN LEVEL OF COMPROMISE AMONG ALL OF THE INDUSTRIES, REGULATORY, PAYER AND CLINICIAN, RIGHT, TO MAKE THIS WORK.

AND I THINK A LOT OF THE ISSUES WHERE WE SEE THESE ISSUES COME UP IS BECAUSE OF FRICTION AMONG THOSE.

THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEAN THAT WE WANT TO ENTRUST THE ENTIRE PROCESS TO ONE ENTITY.

I THINK THAT WOULD RESULT-- I THINK THAT WOULD HAVE CATASTROPHIC RESULTS.

>> IF WE ARE GOING TO STICK WITH THE STATUS QUO FRAMEWORK WE HAVE AND COMEBACK TO THE IDEA OF AN INSURANCE COMPANY NEGOTIATING WITH A PROVIDER AND TRYING TO ENSURE THAT THEY STAY IN NETWORK, IS THERE A LARGER ROLE, DO YOU THINK STATE FINANCIAL REGULATORS SHOULD PLAY?

SHOULD THEY BE AT THE TABLE SO TO SPEAK TO TRY TO HELP THESE PEOPLE COME TOGETHER BECAUSE IT SEEMS, AT LEAST FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, THAT THIS IS CONTAINED TO JUST THESE TWO PARTIES AND THE STATE REGULATORS ARE NOT NECESSARILY PART OF THE CONVERSATION.

>> CERTAINLY I THINK THEY COULD PLAY A LARGER ROLE.

AND I THINK THAT THIS BILL WOULD ALLEVIATE THAT FROM HAVING TO HAPPEN.

THERE ARE A LOT OF INSTANCES WHERE I FEEL PEOPLE ARE LEFT OUT LITERALLY IN THE COLD AND THERE COULD BE A ROLE FOR THE STATE TO STEP IN AND ENSURE THAT THESE ENTITIES ARE ACTING NOT ONLY IF THEIR BEST INTEREST BUT THE INTEREST OF THE PATIENT.

>> AND WHAT HAPPENS IF, AFTER SAY A PROTRACTED NEGOTIATION, THE ENSURER-- INSURER AND HEALTHCARE PROVIDER COME BACK AND MAKE GOOD TERMS, YOU KNOW, THEY KISS AND MAKE UP, SO TO SPEAK.

CAN SOMEONE THEN REENROLL IN THEIR PREVIOUS INSURANCE PLAN OR WOULD THEY HAVE TO WAIT FOR, SAY, TRADITIONAL QUALIFYING EVENT LIKE THE START OF A NEW YEAR, FOR THEM TO GO BACK TO THAT PREVIOUS PLAN?

>> SO I BELIEVE THAT'S THE CASE RIGHT NOW.

BUT MANY TIMES WHAT IS HAPPENING IS THAT THESE PROTRACTED NEGOTIATIONS ARE LASTING MUCH LONGER THAN THE PATIENT NEEDS.

SO, INSTEAD OF HAVING TO WAIT, THIS WOULD ALLOW THEM THE OPTION OF GOING ON.

NOW, IF THEY WANTED TO GO BACK TO THEIR PREVIOUS INSURER, I'M SURE THAT THIS BILL WOULD ALLOW THAT.

>> NOW WE ARE GOING TO HEAR FROM CLAUDIA BRAMER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR PROTECT THE ADIRONDACKS WHO SAT DOWN WITH US TO TALK THE STATE ADMINISTRATION OF THE LIFE INSIDE UP'S NEW YORK'S BLUE LINE AND CONSIDER POSSIBLE OVERSIGHT CHANGES TO PRIVATE LANDS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> PROTECT THE ADIRONDACKS IS IN THE MIDST OF A MULTIYEAR REVIEW OF THE ADIRONDACKS PARK AGENCY ACT, WHICH SERVES AS, I GUESS, THE UNDERLYING FOUNDATION FOR MORE THAN FIVE DECADES OF THE AGENCY THAT HAS OVERSIGHT WHAT DO YOU THINK THE I AM IMPLEMENT ACE OF THAT LAW FIVE PLUS DECADES LATER.

IS THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT IT PROVIDE UPDATES TO THE LAW.

>> THAT'S WHAT WE THINK IT WAS ADOPTED FIRST IN 1972 AND IT HAS NOT BEEN SUBSTANTIVELY UPDATED SINCE THEN.

WE THINK THERE ARE MODERN CHALLENGES, NEW THINGS FACING THE ADIRONDACKS PARK AND THE IN GENERAL THAT REQUIRE THE ACT TO BE MODERNIZED AND UPDATED AND GIVE THE PARK AGENCY MORE JURISDICTION OVER CERTAIN ISSUES AND CLARITY ABOUT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING WHEN PRIVATE LAND PROJECTS ARE COMING BEFORE THE AGENCY FOR REVIEW.

>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE PRACTICAL CHALLENGES THAT ARISE WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE THE LAW IS JUST NOT UP FOR THE QUESTIONS OF MODERN DAY?

>> WELL, ONE THING THAT'S PRETTY GLARING FOR THE ADIRONDACK PARK BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A BIG THREAT TO THE OVERALL CULTURE AND ENVIRONMENT OF THE PARK IS CLIMATE CHANGE.

CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE IN THE ACT.

WE HAVE THE CLIMATE LAW, THE CLCPA THAT REQUIRES THE AGENCY TO DO SOME CLIMATE ANALYSIS BUT WE THINK THE ACT ITSELF COULD BE A LOT CLEARER ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE CONSIDERATIONS THAT THE AGENCY NEEDS TO UNDERTAKE AND REVIEW WHEN THEY'RE LOOKING AT CERTAIN PRIVATE LAND PROJECTS.

ANOTHER THING THAT IS MENTIONED IN THE ACT BUT NOT REALLY UTILIZED VERY MUCH IS AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

THERE IS SOME TALK ABOUT COMMUNITY HOUSING IN THE ACT, BUT WE THINK THIS IS A REALLY SERIOUS CONCERN FOR COMMUNITIES IN THE PARK BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE HAVING A HARD TIME FINDING PLACES TO LIVE TO CONTINUE BEING RESIDENTS IN THE PARK.

SO SOME MORE LANGUAGE ABOUT WHAT THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING REQUIREMENTS WOULD BE FOR NEW SUBDIVISION PROJECTS, YOU KNOW, LARGER SUBDIVISION PROJECTS OR OTHER RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS LIKE APARTMENT BUILDINGS OR THAT SORT OF THING.

>> AND YOU MAKE A POINT ABOUT THIS APPLYING TO PRIVATE LAND.

IS THAT AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE ADIRONDACKS?

>> RIGHT, BECAUSE THE ADIRONDACK PARK AS MOST PEOPLE KNOW, IT'S SIX MILLION ACRES UP IN THE NORTHERN PART OF THE STATE.

ONLY HALF OF THE PARK IS OWNED BY THE PUBLIC AS PART OF THE FOREST PRESERVE.

AND THAT IS ALL GOVERNED BY THE STATE LAND MASTER PLAN, WHICH IS A DIFFERENT PART OF THE AGENCY'S OVERALL RESPONSIBILITY, BUT REALLY STATE LAND IS MANAGED BY THE DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL CONSERVATION.

SO WHAT FALLS INTO THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY'S JURISDICTION ARE THE PRIVATE LANDS.

THE OTHER ROUGHLY THREE MILLION ACRES THAT ARE OWNED BY PRIVATE LAND OWNERS IN THE PARK.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT THE COMPOSITION OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY ITSELF?

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE LOOKING TO CHANGE, EITHER WHO SERVES ON IT, THE MAKEUP OF IT?

IS THAT PART OF THIS CONVERSATION?

>> YEAH, RIGHT NOW THERE ARE 12 MEMBERS OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY BOARD AND THEY'RE SUPPORTED BY AN ENTIRE STAFF.

THERE IS AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, AGENCY COUNSEL, THERE IS REGULATORY PROGRAMS AND NATURAL RESOURCES STAFF SO ALL OF THAT IS IN PLACE AND, OF COURSE, WE STILL THINK THAT THEY COULD HAVE MORE STAFF PEOPLE THERE TO BE DOING BETTER, MORE ROBUST NATURAL RESOURCE ATHAT WILL SIS AND THAT SORT OF THING.

AS FAR AS THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY BOARD, THERE IS A PERSON WHO SITS WITH THE BOARD DURING THE MEETINGS BUT THEY DON'T HAVE A VOTE.

IT'S THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT REPRESENTATIVE.

>> OKAY.

>> WE THINK THAT THAT PERSON SHOULD BE GIVEN A VOTE ON THE ADIRONDACK PARK AGENCY BOARD.

AND ALSO TO ADD SOME MORE QUALIFICATIONS FOR THE BOARD MEMBERS THAT THEY NEED TO BE PART OF ENVIRONMENTAL, CIVIC OR OTHER COMMUNITY ORGANIZATIONS RELATED TO THE PARK SO THAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE A DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF THE ADIRONDACK PARK-- THE PARK ITSELF AND THE COMMUNITIES THERE.

SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO CHANGE THE COMPOSITION OF THE BOARD MEMBERS.

>> I MENTIONED AT THE TOP THAT YOU ARE DOING A MULTIYEAR REVIEW AND YOU HAVE BEEN SOLICITING FEEDBACK FROM ALL SORTS OF STAKEHOLDERS, AND I THINK ONE THING THAT IS FAIR TO SAY ABOUT ANY TIME THERE IS A QUESTION IN THE ADIRONDACKS IS THAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET A VARIETY OF RESPONSES.

HAS THAT BEEN THE CASE WITH THIS AS WELL?

OR ARE THERE ISSUES WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE A CLEAR CONSENSUS HASY EMERGED?

>> THAT'S A VERY GOOD POINT.

THERE IS ALWAYS A LOT OF PUSH AND PULL IN THE ADIRONDACKS AND ONE THING I WANT TO SAY IS THAT ANY CHANGES TO THE ACT ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE BALANCED.

THE ADIRONDACK PARK ITSELF IS REALLY THE PRIMARY GOAL OF IT IS FOR THE PROTECTION, PRESERVATION OF THE UNIQUE NATURAL RESOURCES IN THE PARK, BUT THERE IS ALSO A CLEAR RECOGNITION THAT PEOPLE LIVE IN THE PARK AND THEY HAVE TO BE ABLE TO MAKE A LIVING.

THEY HAVE LAND USE DEVELOPMENT RIGHTS, DEPENDING ON THE DIFFERENT LAND CLASSIFICATIONS IN THE PARK.

LOTS OF STAKEHOLDERS HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ABOUT HOW THE PARK AGENCY IS WORK WORKING BUT NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVE AN IN-DEPTH UNDERSTANDING OF THE ACT ITSELF.

IT'S VERY COMPLICATED.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THERE IS CONSENSUS ABOUT IS THAT THE JURISDICTIONAL PROVISION IN THE ACT ARE CONFUSING AND SOMETHING THAT COULD HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY NEED AN A.P.A.

ACT PERMIT IS TO CLARIFY AND CLEAN UP THE JURISDICTIONAL PROVISIONS IN THE ACT BUT THAT'S A VERY BIG LIFT.

IT IS A HOOK FOR THE AGENCY TO HAVE JURISDICTION OVER CERTAIN PROJECTS SO THAT-- WHILE EVERYONE AGREES IT PROBABLY SHOULD BE CLEARER, THERE IS NO CLEAR CONSENSUS ABOUT HOW WE DO THAT AND WHAT CERTAIN THINGS COULD BE CHANGED OR TWEAKED IN THE ACT TO MAKE THAT BETTER.

>> WELL, TO THAT END THEN, IS THERE SOME MERIT TO THE IDEA OF BETTER THE DEVIL YOU KNOW THAN THE DEVIL YOU DON'T?

BECAUSE ONCE YOU OPEN UP A LAW AND BEGIN TINKERING WITH IT, IT COULD COME OUT OF YOUR HANDS, YOU KNOW, PROTECT THE ADIRONDACKS MIGHT NOT BE THE ONE WRITING THE NEW STATUTORY LANGUAGE, SO IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT?

>> THOSE WORDS HAVE BEEN SPOKEN DIRECTLY LIKE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT THIS IS.

WE KNOW IT'S CONFUSING BUT WE WOULD RATHER HAVE THIS THAN SOMETHING-- YEAH, SO WE DEFINITELY UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND TO YOUR POINT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT WRITING THE BILL.

THIS IS THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR ARE GOING TO NEED TO BE INVOLVED AND BE WILLING TO TAKE ON THE UNDERTAKING OF THE AMENDING THE A.P.A.

ACT AND MAYBE IT WON'T BE ONE GIANT, YOU KNOW, EFFORT ALL AT ONCE.

THAT'S HOW IT CAME INTO EXISTENCE.

IT WAS JUST ONE ENORMOUS BILL AND IT WAS VERY LONG AND COMPLICATED AT THE TIME.

WE COULD TRY TO MAKE CHANGES LIKE THAT OR WE COULD TRY TO DO PIECE MEAL CHANGES OVER TIME, TO CERTAIN PROVISIONS OF THE ACT.

NOW WHAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT IS A LOT OF THE PROVISIONS, THE SECTIONS IN THE ACT INTERACT WITH ONE ANOTHER.

>> YEAH, ALL TIED TOGETHER.

>> SO YOU TRY TO CHANGE ONE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT CHANGING THE OTHERS.

YEAH.

>> AND WE ARE GOING TO STICK WITH THE ADIRONDACKS AS WE HEAR FROM ASSEMBLYMEMBER BOBBY CARROLL, A BROOKLYN DEMOCRAT WHO IS HELPING LEAD THE CHARGE FOR A BID TO BRING THE WINTER OLYMPICS BACK TO NEW YORK WITH A PLAN THAT WOULD ENVISION EVENTS IN LAKE PLACID AS WELL AS THE NEW YORK CITY AREA.

HERE IS THE LATEST TO SECURE THE 242 WINTER GAMES FOR THE EMPIRE STATE.

SO I GUESS FOR STARTERS, WHAT SORT OF EXISTING INFRASTRUCTURE IS IS THERE IN NEW YORK, WHETHER IN THE ADIRONDACKS OR THE NEW YORK CITY AREA THAT WOULD LEND ITSELF TO A FUTURE WINTER OLYMPICS SO WE DON'T CENTER TO INVEST BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN BUILDING NEW FACILITIES?

>> THE GREAT AND FACILITIES INSIDE THE TOWN AS WELL AS IN NORTH CREEK AT CORE MOUNTAIN.

WE HAVE AN ABUN DANCE OF RICHES HERE THAT YOU CAN START TO SKETCH OUT ALMOST EVERY SINGLE EVENT THAT THE WINTER OLYMPICS HAS.

AND SAY THAT WE HAVE A PLACE THAT COULD FIT THAT.

NOW HOPEFULLY, OVER THE NEXT WEEKS, MONTHS AND YEARS TO COME, AS THIS IDEA TAKES SHAPE, MORE PEOPLE GET AROUND THE TABLE AND FIGURE OUT WHAT THIS CONCEPT COULD BE.

THE OLYMPICS IS ALWAYS CHANGING.

SO THEY'RE ADDING EVENTS, THEY'RE DELETING EVENTS.

BUT TO FIGURE OUT A SUSTAINABLE COST EFFECTIVE GAMES THAT BUILDS NO NEW VENUES, SO NO NEW PERMANENT VENUES BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT SO MANY PEOPLE GET FRUSTRATED ABOUT.

JUST A SECOND, WHAT THE UTILITY OF THAT.

WE HAVE GREAT VENUES IN NEW YORK.

WE CAN HOST THESE GAMES NOW.

WE ARE PREPARED TO DO IT.

GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S LEADERSHIP REALLY MADE SURE THAT WE IMPROVED AND UPGRADED THE LEGACY FACILITIES IN THE LAKE PLACID AREA.

AND WHAT WE HAVE IN NEW YORK CITY IS JUST THE GREATEST CROSS SECTION OF SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT VENUES IN THE WORLD.

>> YEAH, THE FACILITIES IN LAKE PLACID, IT HASN'T BEEN A STAGNANT LANDSCAPE EVER SINCE THE 1980 GAMES.

RIGHT?

THE STATE HAS INVESTED AND HAS REALLY MONITORED THAT DIFFERENT SET OF OPERATIONS.

BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE WOULD HAVE TO BE A CONTINUOUS INVESTMENT BETWEEN NOW AND 2042 THOUGH?

>> YEAH, LAKE PLACID, UNDER GOVERNOR HOCHUL'S LEADERSHIP, WE MODERNIZED-- THE STATE OF NEW YORK MODERNIZED ALL OF THE FACILITIES FROM THE 1980 GAMES TO HOST THE WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES IN 2023.

I WAS AT THOSE GAMES.

THEY WERE A WILD SUCCESS.

AND THEY'RE THE REASON WE ARE ABLE TO DO WHAT WE ARE ABLE TO KIND OF DREAM RIGHT NOW, WHICH IS TO SAY CAN WE TAKE THE NEXT STEP AND SO THE OLYMPIC REGIONAL DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY IS THE LARGEST PER VAIR OF WINTER SPORTS FACILITY IS MAYBE IN THE WORLD.

AND THAT'S A FANTASTIC ASSET FOR NEW YORK STATE, BUT OF COURSE IT COSTS MONEY AND JUST LIKE IF YOU REDO YOUR HOME, AND YOU PUT A NEW ROOF, PUT NEW PLUMBING, NEW ELECTRICAL WIRING, YOU'VE GOT A GREAT HOME BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU DON'T DO REGULAR MAINTENANCE ON THAT HOME FOR THE NEXT FIVE, 10, 15 YEARS AND SO OF COURSE THERE WILL NEED TO BE REGULAR MAINTENANCE BUT THE QUESTION I WOULD SAY IS WE DO THE SAME WHEN IT COMES TO OUR THRU-WAYS, OUR SUNY SYSTEM, THE M.T.A., THE PORT AUTHORITY.

WE KNOW WHEN WE DEFER MAINTENANCE TO THOSE FACILITIES, IT COSTS MORE.

I WOULD HOPE THAT WE WOULD MAINTAIN, YOU KNOW, THE PROPER FUNDING FOR ORDA TO MAKE SURE THEY MAINTAIN THEIR WORLD CLASS FACILITIES.

>> IT ALSO SEEMS LIKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO INVEST IN SOME OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN THE REGION BECAUSE TRANSPORTATION IS DEFINITELY GOING TO BE A BIG QUESTION BOTH IN TERMS OF HOW PEOPLE GET AROUND THE ADIRONDACKS OR HOW THEY GET TO THE ADIRONDACKS AND ALSO WHERE ARE YOU GOING TO HOUSE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MAYBE COMPETING IN THE GAMES IN THE ADIRONDACKS.

SO IS THERE AN OPPORTUNITY HERE TO INVEST IN HOUSING, TO INVEST IN TRANSPORTATION INFRASTRUCTURE FOR THE REGION?

>> SO IT'S THE REASON I'M REALLY EXCITED THAT, YOU KNOW, GOVERNOR HOCHUL, YOU KNOW, SEEMS VERY INTERESTED IN THIS AND I THINK SHE IS GOING TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS.

IS THAT THEY'RE GREAT OPPORTUNITIES FOR HOUSING AND TRANSPORTATION UPGRADES, BOTH IN NEW YORK CITY AND IN LAKE PLACID THAT AN OLYMPIC GAMES CAN HELP CREATE A DEADLINE FOR.

WE KNOW THAT GOVERNMENT CAN BE SLOW.

WE KNOW DEADLINES ARE GOOD.

AND THIS IS WHERE MILAN CORTINA CAN BE REALLY INSTRUCTIVE.

THEY MADE SOME GREAT CHOICES.

RIGHT?

THEY BUILT PERMANENT STUDENT HOUSING IN MILAN THAT WAS THEIR OLYMPIC VILLAGE THERE.

BUT THEY BUILT TEMPORARY HOUSING IN CORTINA BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT FIT THERE.

WE COULD DO A MIX OF BOTH IN BOTH AREAS.

WHEN IT COMES TO TRANSIT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE ALWAYS IN THE LEGISLATURE TALKING ABOUT ARE THERE BETTER WAYS TO CONNECT NEW YORK CITY TO ALBANY, ALBANY TO POINTS WEST AND NORTH.

THIS WOULD BE A GREAT IMPETUS FOR THAT.

WHETHER IT'S WORKING WITH OUR FEDERAL PARTNERS ON UPGRADING AND IMPROVING AMTRAK SO MAYBE THAT IT IS NOT HIGH SPEED RAIL BUT HIGHER SPEED RAIL.

MAKING SURE THERE ARE BETTER CONNECTIONS SO MAYBE, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT TAKE A TRAIN FROM NEW YORK TO ALBANY OR NEW YORK TO SARATOGA AND GET ON A BUS AND MAKING THOSE CONNECTIONS SMOOTHER SO THAT WE CAN MOVE PEOPLE FROM THE GAMES AND THERE ARE TWO SMALL REGIONAL AIRPORTS THAT SERVE THE ADIRONDACKS.

ONE LAKE CLEAR IN SARANAC LAKE, WHAT UPGRADES CAN BE THERE AND THE VERY LARGE AIRPORT IN PLATTSBURGH, THAT IS, UNFORTUNATELY... >> LARGE MIGHT BE A BIT OF A STRETCH THERE.

>> UNDER UTILIZED THERE.

>> SO IN NEW YORK CITY LAGUARDIA IS NOT MY FAVORITE AIRPORT BECAUSE OF THE THOUGHTFUL INVESTMENTS WE MADE TO DURN THAT INTO A WORLD CLASS FACILITY.

IT IS MY FAVORITE AIRPORT.

THE GOVERNOR IS LEADING THOSE EFFORTS AT J.F.K.

AND NEWARK AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL HAVE A NEW PENN STATION, TOO.

PEOPLE ARE WORKING ON THOSE PROJECTS RIGHT NOW.

I THINK THE AWESOME OPPORTUNITY IS GOING TO BE IN 2042, WHICH IS JUST 15 YEARS AWAY.

ALL THOSE THINGS WILL BE COMPLETE.

AND WE WILL BE ABLE TO SHOW OFF OUR WONDERFUL STATE AND IN PARTICULAR NEW YORK CITY AND LAKE PLACID TO THE WORLD.

I THINK IT'S AN AWESOME OPPORTUNITY.

IT HAS BEEN REALLY EXCITING TO SEE OTHER PEOPLE EXCITED ABOUT IT AND I HOPE MORE AND MORE WILL COME OF IT.

>> COULD YOU IMAGINE A WORLD IN WHERE IF THIS DOES GAIN STEAM AND WE ARE FORMING A NON-PROFIT TO MAKE A BID AND THEN MOVE THINGS ALONG THROUGH NOW AND 2042, COULD YOU IMAGINE A WORLD IN WHICH YOU WOULD LEAVE POLITICS TO SPEAR HEAD SOMETHING LIKE THAT, GIVEN THE CLEAR INTEREST AND PASSION YOU HAVE FOR THIS?

>> IT'S A GREAT CIVIC PROJECT FOR THE FLEX GENERATION.

OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT MY DECISION.

RIGHT?

THERE WILL BE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE DECISION OF WHO WOULD LEAD FUTURE PROJECTS AND THERE COULD BE MULTIPLE LEADERS.

BUT, LOOK, I THINK THIS IS THE BEST IDEA THAT NOW A FEW PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF.

IT USED TO BE THE BEST IDEA NOBODY HAD HEARD OF.

NOW A FEW PEOPLE HAVE HEARD OF IT.

LOOK, I WAS LUCKY.

I WAS BORN AND RAISED IN BROOKLYN BUT MY FAMILY HAS HAD A GENERATIONAL HOME IN THE ADIRONDACKS.

THESE ARE TWO OF THE PLACES I LOVE MOST IN THE WORLD.

I THINK MORE PEOPLE SHOULD EXPERIENCE THEM.

AND YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WE'VE GOT A GREAT GOVERNOR WHO UNDERSTANDS HOW IMPORTANT CONNECTING UPSTATE AND DOWNSTATE AND SO HOPEFULLY OVER THE NEXT YEAR WE CAN GET A LOT OF PEOPLE CONNECTED TOGETHER, MOVING IN THIS DIRECTION AND HOPEFULLY WE WILL PUT TOGETHER TEAMS THAT REALLY ARE READY TO GO WIN THESE GAMES AND ANY WAY THAT I CAN BE HELPFUL AND BE PART OF THAT, I WOULD LOVE TO.

>> AND NOW RETURNING OUR ATTENTION TO THE THOUSANDS OF SMALL AGING DAMS ACROSS NEW YORK THAT ARE IN NEED OF MAINTENANCE AND COULD BE GOOD CANDIDATES FOR MODIFICATION OR REMOVAL.

WE SPOKE WITH LAURA RABINEAU, DIRECTOR OF RESEARCH AT THE ROCKEFELLER INSTITUTE OF GOVERNMENT AND CO-AUTHOR OF THE RECENT REPORT ON NEW YORK'S DAM INFRASTRUCTURE.

ASIDE FROM MAYBE THE DAM IN 11 WORTH PARK, I DON'T THINK MOST OF NEW YORKERS HAVE AN IDEA OF THE AGE, NUMBER AND TYPES OF DAMS THAT LITTER NEW YORK.

CAN YOU GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT THAT PICTURE LOOKS LIKE.

>> SURE, WE HAVE A LOT OF DAM INFRASTRUCTURE ACROSS NEW YORK STATE.

6,000 OR SO DAMS THAT WE HAVE LISTED AS THE STATE.

THE NUMBERS VARY SLIGHTLY, TO GREATLY, DEPENDING WHERE YOU LOOK AT THE DATA.

FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS A NATIONAL INVENTORY OF DAMS THAT HAS ABOUT 92,000 DAMS.

IN THAT INVENTORY, NEW YORK ONLY HAS ABOUT 1600 DAMS.

THAT'S BECAUSE A LOT OF OUR DAMS MAY NOT MEET THE CRITERIA FOR BEING INCLUDED.

SIZE, HAZARD LEVEL, ET CETERA, RIGHT?

BUT WE HAVE ABOUT 6,000 ACRORD-- ACCORDING TO STATE DATA.

THERE IS ALSO LIKELY ANOTHER NUMBER OF DAMS THAT WE DO NOT HAVE WITHIN THAT DATA SET AS WELL THAT RESEARCHERS ARE WORKING TO IDENTIFY AND LOCATE AND MAP.

BUT THERE ARE ABOUT 6,000.

THOSE 6,000 THAT WE DO HAVE, THE AVERAGE AGE IS AROUND 87 YEARS OLD.

THAT'S QUITE OLD.

IT'S ABOUT 20 YEARS OLDER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

WE ARE AN OLD STATE.

WE ARE AN INDUSTRIALIZED STATE.

AND A LOT OF OUR DAM INFRASTRUCTURE GOES BACK A LONG, LONG WAY.

WE HAVE DAMS ON RECORD AS OLD AS 1699 TODAY.

SO THAT'S QUITE OLD.

AND THEN IN TERMS OF SIZE, I THINK A LOT OF OUR POPULAR IMAGINATION PROBABLY CULTIVATES IDEAS AND IMAGES OF HOOVER DAM IN THE SOUTHWEST.

VERY LARGE, LIKE 700 PLUS FOOT DAM.

ON AVERAGE, OUR DAMS ARE ABOUT 15 FEET TALL.

SO MUCH SMALLER, MUCH, MUCH SMALLER.

>> AND WHAT SORT OF ROLE DO THESE DAMS POTENTIALLY PLAY ACROSS THE STATE IF THEY ARE SMALL DAMS LIKE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT AND NOT THE HOOVER DAM OR THE DAM THAT RICHARD KIMBALL JUMPS OFF OF IN THE FUGITIVE.

>> SO THEY PLAY A LOT OF DIFFERENT ROLES IN OUR COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE STATE.

SOMETIMES RECREATIONAL FACILITIES, RIGHT?

THEY MAY HAVE AN ESTHETIC VALUE FOR FOLKS.

THEY MAY PROVIDE FOR A DRINKING WATER RESERVOIR.

THEY MAY PROVIDE FOR FLOODING CONTROL OR ENERGY PRODUCTION.

SO MANY DIFFERENT REASONS, AND SOME OF THESE MAY BE HISTORICAL OR LEGACY REASONS THAT ARE NO LONGER IN USE FOR PRODUCTIVE.

>> WELL, IN ADDITION TO AS YOU POINTED OUT, NEW YORK HAVING ON AVERAGE OLDER DAMS THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE, YOU NOTE IN YOUR REPORT THAT THERE IS AN INCREASING NUMBER OF DAMS THAT ARE CLASSIFIED AS HIGH OR SIGNIFICANT HAZARDS.

WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE STATUS QUO AND SHOULD WE BE PUTTING OUT AN ALERT RIGHT NOW?

YOU KNOW, VIEWERS OR IS THAT DEFEND-- DEFINITION AND THOSE WORDS HAVE DIFFERENT MEANINGS FROM WHAT THEY SOUND LIKE TO OUR EARS.

>> NOT TO SCARE ANYBODY, THAT'S FOR SURE.

>> THAT'S FOR RATINGS WEEK.

>> THERE ARE A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT CLASSIFICATIONS, RIGHT?

ONE IS A HAZARD CLASSIFICATION AND ONE IS A CONDITION ASSESSMENT.

THE HAZARD CLASSIFICATION SAYS IF SOMETHING HAPPENED, THE IMPACT WOULD BE... AND THEN SAYS THE SEVERITY OF THAT IMPACT.

THE CONDITION ASSESSMENT SAYS THIS IS THE STATE IT'S ACTUALLY IN RIGHT NOW.

SO IS IT LIKELY TO EVEN HAPPEN?

AND SO I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO KIND OF SEPARATE THOSE THINGS OUT, JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS HIGHER HAZARD DOES NOT MEAN THAT SOMETHING IS NOT IN GOOD CONDITION.

HOWEVER, I WOULD SAY OF THE 6,000 DAMS THAT WE HAVE, ABOUT 4500 ARE LOW HAZARD BUT A THOUSAND ARE INTERMEDIATE OR HIGH HAZARD.

AGAIN, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY'RE IN POOR CONDITION, BUT SOME OF THOSE HAVE NOTED DEFICIENCIES SO WE ARE THINKING THEN ABOUT 300 OR SO THAT MIGHT HAVE MORE NOTED DEFICIENCIES.

THOSE SHOULD BE OF CONCERN TO PEOPLE.

I CAN'T TELL YOU WHERE EACH ONE IS ACROSS THE STATE BUT THERE HAS BEEN RENEWED EFFORT PARTICULARLY SINCE 2010 WHEN WE LOOKED AT OUR LAWS AND REGULATION AS ROUND DAMS, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE GETTING MORE RECENT CONDITION ASSESSMENTS OF THESE DAMS.

>> AND RIGHT NOW, WHAT IS THE STATE'S OVERSIGHT ROLE OR WHAT SORT OF RESOURCES ARE BEING DEDICATED TO THIS WORK BECAUSE IN YOUR REPORT, YOU NOTICED THAT OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE EAST, MASSACHUSETTS, HAVE A DEDICATED TEAM OF PEOPLE WORKING ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

SO WHAT DOES NEW YORK'S RESPONSE LOOK LIKE?

>> WE HAD ABOUT SEVEN FULL TIME STAFF PRIOR TO MORE RECENT LEGISLATION.

WE NOW HAVE ABOUT NINE FULL-TIME STAFF ACROSS DEC.

THAT, HOWEVER, I THINK DOESN'T REFLECT MAYBE THE LARGER NUMBER OF DAMS THAT WE HAVE, SO MASSACHUSETTS, AS YOU NOTED BY COMPARISON, HAS ABOUT 25 FULL-TIME STAFF MEMBERS.

THEY HAVE ABOUT HALF THE NUMBER OF DAMS IN THEIR STATE THAT WE HAVE IN NEW YORK.

SO ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE HAD IN OUR REPORT, AND SPEAKING TO A NUMBER OF STAKEHOLDERS THAT WORK ON DAMS, DAM OWNERS, REGULATORY STAFF, NON-PROFITS, ENGINEERING FIRMS, WAS TO HAVE A DEDICATED TEAM AS THEY DO IN MASSACHUSETTS, SO THAT WE ARE CENTRALIZING THAT KIND OF INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE AND PROVIDING MORE RESOURCES TO SUPPORT DAMAGE OWNERS AND COMMUNITIES AS THEY IN NAVIGATE THESE PROCESSES.

>> SO WHILE IT SOUNDS LIKE IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE A STRONG AND PRESENT STATE PRESENCE, THERE IS, AS YOU POINTED OUT, A LOT OF FLEXIBILITY OR VARIANCE IN HOW DAMS ARE USED.

SO DOES THAT MEAN YOU NEED TO HAVE SORT OF FLEXIBLE OR, I GUESS, CASE BY CASE APPROACH TO THE FUTURE OF ALL THESE DAMS BECAUSE WHILE IT MAKE SOME SENSE TO GET RID OF SOME AND MODIFY OTHERS, IT SEEMS LIKE THE DAM DOZEN WORK IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

EVERY COMMUNITY IS GOING THROUGH ITS OWN SET OF FACTORS THAT IT NEEDS TO WEIGH.

THAT SAID, IN TERMS OF RESTORING CONNECTIVITY AND LOOKING AT IT FROM AN ECOLOGICAL RESTORATION PERSPECTIVE, IF WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS HAVE MORE RIVER MILES, THAT ARE CONNECTED, WHAT WE FOUND THROUGH OUR CONVERSATIONS WITH STAKEHOLDERS AND WORKING ACROSS STATES IS THAT PUTTING A PRIORITY ON DAM REMOVALS WAS AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO DO THAT.

STATES, LIKE MASSACHUSETTS SINCE YOU MENTION IT, THAT PRIORITIZE REMOVALS HAVE HAD GREATER SUCCESS AT REMOVING THEM.

NEW YORK TAKES A PRETTY NEUTRAL POSITION, RIGHT, THAT SAYS HERE ARE ALL OF THE OPTIONS, WHICH EVER OPTION YOU WANT TO GO DOWN, THAT'S FINE.

AND THAT STILL MAY BE FINE, BUT YOU CAN PRIORITIZE WHICH OF THOSE YOU MIGHT GET A BETTER COST BENEFIT OUT OF IN THE LONG-TERM FROM BOTH A COST PERSPECTIVE AND AN ECOLOGICAL BENEFITS PERSPECTIVE.

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

LAURA THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR VISITING US IN THE STUDIO APPRECIATE IT.

>> BEFORE WE GO THOUGH, WE ARE GOING TO HEAR OUR CONVERSATION FROM THE CAPITOL WITH ASSEMBLYMAN JOE ANGELINO, THE CENTRAL NEW YORK REPUBLICAN SAT DOWN WITH US TO DISCUSS HIS EFFORT TO DRAMATICALLY INCREASE A STATE TAX CREDIT FOR NEW YORKERS WHO VOLUNTEER THERE THEIR LOCAL EMS OR FIRE DEPARTMENTS.

WE BEGAN OUR CONVERSATION BY HIGHLIGHTING THE NEED FOR MORE VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS.

>> WELL, MY PERSPECTIVE IS WE ARE IN DESPERATE NEED OF MORE VOLUNTEERS.

MY ASSEMBLY DISTRICT IS LARGER, ENCOMPASSES FIVE COUNTIES AND I HAVE 47 VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND ONE DEPARTMENT IS A COMBINATION PAID AND VOLUNTEER.

AND THAT'S THE DEPARTMENT I BELONG TO.

EVERY DEPARTMENT IS IN GREAT NEED OF MORE VOLUNTEERS.

IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, I HAVE LOST TWO VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENTS, ONE IN BROOM COUNTY AND ONE IN CHENANGO COUNTY, AND ONE OF THEM CLOSED UP AND SOLD ALL THE EQUIPMENT THEY HAD BECAUSE THEY HAD NO VOLUNTEERS LEFT.

AND THE OTHER HAD TO NO VOLUNTEERS LEFT AND THEY SHARED IT WITH NEIGHBORING DEPARTMENTS.

SO THROUGH POPULATION LOSS, TIME CONSTRAINTS OF TRAINING, THERE IS JUST A LACK OF VOLUNTEERS ALL ACROSS THE STATE.

>> AND WHAT ARE YOUR EXPECTATIONS THOUGH OF A TAX CREDIT WHICH WOULD BE WORTH, YOU KNOW, UP TO $2500.

IS THIS SOMETHING YOU THINK IS A MEANINGFUL INCENTIVE FOR PEOPLE OR DO YOU VIEW IT MORE AS A NICE WAY TO SAY THANKS ALMOST TO THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY BEEN DOING THIS FOR YEARS.

>> IT'S BOTH.

AGAIN, I AM IN THE FIRE SERVICE AND I'M IN A FIRE TRUCK AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK WHEN I'M OFF.

AND I TALK TO VOLUNTEERS.

I GO TO ALL THE BREAKFASTS, ALL THE DINNERS AND I HEAR FROM THEM AND THEY'RE ALL SAYING WE NEED VOLUNTEERS.

ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO INCENTIVIZE GETTING MORE VOLUNTEERS IN THE DOOR.

THIS WAS A BIG ONE.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A $200 TAX CREDIT THAT JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY TAKES.

BUT $200 IS A PITTANCE.

>> SURE.

>> WE MANIES HAVE-- WE ALSO HAVE THE PROPERTY TAX RELIEF.

BUT WHAT WE FOUND IS A LOT OF YOUNG VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS DON'T OWN A HOME, OR, IN MY BROOM COUNTY AREA, WHICH IS SUBURBAN, SOME OF THE MEMBERS OWN A HOME BUT VOLUNTEER FOR A DEPARTMENT NOT IN THE SAME AREA AND THE LEGISLATION SAYS IT HAS TO BE, YOU HAVE TO VOLUNTEER WHERE YOU LIVE.

SO THAT WAS A PROBLEM.

SO JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY COULD USE AN INCOME TAX BREAK, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU OWN PROPERTY OR NOT.

SO I HAVE SEVERAL PIECES OF LEGISLATION ALL TRYING TO HELP RECRUIT AND RETAIN THE VOLUNTEERS THAT WE HAVE BECAUSE IF WE LOSE THEM, IT'S GOING TO BE A BIG PROBLEM.

>> AND DO YOU THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT THE PROBLEM FROM A, HOW DO WE GET VOLUNTEERS INTO THIS SPACE OR SHOULD WE ALMOST MOVE BEYOND THAT WAY OF THINKING ABOUT THINGS AND SAY, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO JUST PAY PEOPLE?

I MEAN DO VOLUNTEER DEPARTMENTS EVEN MAKE SENSE STILL.

>> WE ARE ON THE VERGE OF HAVING TO DO SOMETHING.

SO IF WE HAVE TO GO AND START PAYING PEOPLE TO DO WHAT THE VOLUNTEERS ARE DOING, IT'S GOING TO BE AN ENORMOUS THING.

NOW, ABOUT FIVE, EIGHT YEARS AGO, WE HAD THE SAME PROBLEM WITH AMBULANCE SERVICE.

THAT'S NOW MORE THAN 50% PAID AND IT'S A PATCHWORK OF HOW IT HAPPENS.

I HAVE FIVE COUNTIES.

WITH FIVE DIFFERENT WAYS OF PROVIDING AMBULANCE SERVICE.

WE GOT TO GET THE FIRE SERVICE RIGHT.

IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING STATEWIDE.

I THINK THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE VOLUNTEERS NEEDED BECAUSE WE JUST CAN'T PAY FOR IT.

ALSO, THINKING ABOUT IT'S ALMOST LIKE AN INSURANCE POLICY.

AND IF YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY SAYS WE DON'T DO IT ANYMORE, YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, THAT'S WHAT A VOLUNTEER FIRE DEPARTMENT IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN INSURANCE POLICY OF SOMETHING HAPPENS, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO SHOW UP.

BUT RIGHT NOW THAT'S NOT A GUARANTEE.

BUT HOW DO WE SET IT UP?

A RURAL AREA, YOU CAN'T HAVE FOUR GUYS SITTING IN A FIRE HOUSE THAT ANSWER 25 CALLS A YEAR, BUT WHEN YOU NEED THEM, THAT ONE TIME THAT A BARN IS ON FIRE OR A CAR ACCIDENT, YOU KNOW, SO WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT SOME WAY.

MAYBE IT'S A PAPER CALL OR PER DIEM.

SOMEHOW.

RIGHT NOW WE ARE PAYING FOR THEIR BASIC TRAINING.

ONE IS CALLED BASIC AND FIREFIGHTER AND WE PAY FOR IFO.

INTERIOR FIREFIGHTER CLASSES.

I THINK IT'S $700 OR $00.

AND THEN IF-- 800.

AND IF THEY TAKE OFFICER SCHOOL FOR LEADERSHIP POSITIONS THEY WILL BE PAID FOR THE TRAINING.

BUT THE VOLUNTEER FIRE SERVICE WHERE I LIVE LOOKS A LOT LIKE ME AND WHEN I SHOW UP ON A SCENE AT 2:00 IN THE MORNING DRIVING A TRUCK I'M NOT THE OLDEST GUY THERE BY FAR.

AND YOU KNOW, THERE IS NOT A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE GETTING INVOLVED IN THIS.

SO WE HAVE TO START CHANGING OUR TACTIC.

HOW ARE WE GOING TO ATTRACT NEW PEOPLE AND RETAIN SOME OF THE GOOD PEEP THAT WE HAVE?

>> WELL, I WANT TO PIVOT TO THE MECHANICS OF GETTING AN IDEA, LIKE THE ONE WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WITH THE TAX CREDIT, TO THE FLOOR IN EITHER THE ASSEMBLY OR THE SENATE, OBVIOUSLY YOU'VE GOT THAT FIRSTHAND EXPERIENCE IN THE ASSEMBLY.

I DON'T THINK LISTENERS NECESSARILY GRASP THE FACT THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE THE BEST IDEA IN THE COUNTRY, BUT BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOT AN R NEXT TO YOUR NAME IN NEW YORK, IT'S BASICALLY DEAD ON ARRIVAL.

I MEAN IF YOU WANT TO GET SOMETHING LIKE THIS TAX CREDIT TO A VOTE, AND POTENTIALLY BECOME LAW, WHAT DO YOU NEED TO DO?

I MEAN AS SIMPLE AS FIND A DEMOCRAT TO CARRY IT?

>> I'VE DONE THAT IN THE PAST AND IT WORKED.

I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND AND NEIGHBOR, BUT THAT MEMBER IS RETIRING.

>> I'M GUESSING MARIANNE BUTTENSCHON.

>> GUESS AGAIN.

>> DONNA LUPARDO.

>> IT IS.

>> A VERY CLOSE FRIEND.

SORRY TO SEE HER GO.

SHE AND I WORKED TOGETHER ON THE BLOOD ON HELICOPTERS BILL AND OTHER FIRST RESPONDER BILLS.

BUT SO IF THERE IS A MAJORITY MEMBER WILLING TO TAKE THIS OVER, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, MY MOTION TO DISCHARGE, WHICH THE MAJORITY PARTY CHOSE, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T PUT IT UP.

WE GAVE THEM-- HERE ARE SOME BILLS WE WOULD LIKE A MOTION TO DISCHARGE.

THEY PICKED THREE.

THIS WAS ONE OF THEM.

AND THEY'RE FEELING THE HEAT ON THAT.

NOW, AN INTERESTING THING ABOUT THE ASSEMBLY, THERE IS 150 OF US SITTING IN THAT ROOM.

100 ARE BASICALLY FROM THE TAPAN ZEE BRIDGE SOUTH INTO NEW YORK CITY AND LONG ISLAND.

THAT LEAVES ABOUT 48 OF US UPSTATE.

BOTH PARTIES.

THE PEOPLE IN THE MAJORITY, THE MAJORITY OF THE MAJORITY COMES FROM NEW YORK CITY.

WHERE THEY HAVE ONE SCHOOL DISTRICT, ONE FIRE DEPARTMENT, ONE PLARM AND AGAIN, LIFE LIFE POLICE DEPARTMENT AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, I HAVE 47 FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND 41 SCHOOL DISTRICTS I THINK AT LAST COUNT.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S-- IT STARTS OUT BECAUSE THERE IS AN R AFTER MY NAME BUT THEN IT GOES FURTHER AND I THINK THEY JUST DON'T COMPREHEND THE VASTNESS AND THE DIFFICULTY OF TIME AND SPACE IN A DISTRICT THAT ENCOMPASSES FIVE COUNTIES WHEN THEIR DISTRICT MIGHT ONLY BE 25 BLOCKS.

SO, AND THEY HAVE, LIKE I SAID, ONE FIRE DEPARTMENT THERE.

SO SOMETIMES I THINK IT'S A CULTURAL THING WHERE THEY DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM.

>> SO WHAT IS THE RIGHT MECHANISM MOVING FORWARD?

IS IT SOME SORT OF SMALL D DEMOCRATIC REFORMS THAT GUARANTEE BILLS GET AN ACTUAL FLOOR VOTE AND NOT JUST A CHANCE TO BE HEARD IN COMMITTEE?

IS IT SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS MORE NON-PART SON?

-- NON-PARTISAN?

WHAT DO YOU THINK MAKES SENSE.

>> THOSE OF US WHO HAVE AN R AFTER OUR NAME REPRESENT 6 AND A HALF TO 7 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS STATE AND WE ARE VERY FORCEFUL TRYING TO GET OUR MESSAGE OUT THERE.

BUT IT'S JUST STYMIED EVERYWHERE.

SO I CHOSE THE MOTION TO DISCHARGE BECAUSE THE COMMITTEE THAT IT WAS IN, I THINK IT WAS TAX AND FINANCE.

>> WAYS AND MEANS.

>> WOULD NOT PASS IT, WOULD NOT EVEN LET IT COME UP.

THE MECHANISM IS FORCE THE COMMITTEE TO DISCHARGE IT TO THE FLOOR AND LET EVERYBODY GIVE IT AN UP OR DOWN VOTE.

AND YOU KNOW, THERE WERE A FEW DEMOCRATS WHO DID VOTE ALONG WITH ME.

>> BECAUSE YOU ARE PUTTING THEM ON RECORD.

>> BUT THEY'RE ON RECORD FOR THE PROCEDURE.

>> SURE.

>> SO, YOU KNOW, I WAS TOLD THIS ISN'T THE CORRECT PROCEDURE.

IT'S SUPPOSED TO GO THROUGH THE COMMITTEE SYSTEM.

I FOLLOWED THE RULES OF THE CHAMBER AND I SAID I WOULD LIKE THIS BROUGHT TO THE FLOOR.

SO THE NO VOTE WAS ON THE PROCEDURAL METHOD I CHOSE.

>> BUT THAT'S SEMANTICS.

>> IT'S KILLING THE BILL NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY.

>> AND IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO DO IT THOUGH?

>> THIS IS THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN DONE AROUND HERE.

>> SURE.

>> SINCE I WAS A TEENAGER.

>> TRYING TO COME AT IT WITH FRESH EYES THOUGH, WHAT IS THE BETTER WAY?

>> THE BETTER WAY, I THINK, I THINK EVERY MEMBER SHOULD AT LEAST GET ONE BILL TO THE FLOOR FOR AN UP OR DOWN VOTE.

AND THE DOGMA INVOLVED IN KEEPING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WITH NOTHING TO PASS.

YOU KNOW, WE GET OUR LOCAL BILLS, NAME A BRIDGE, TAX, PARK ALIENATION AND WE ARE APPRECIATIVE BECAUSE WE NEED THAT.

OUR CONSTITUENTS NEED IT.

BUT A STATEWIDE BILL, THERE IS SOME AVERSION THAT IS SO DEEPLY SEEDED, I DON'T KNOW HOW TO ESCAPE IT.

>> WELL, AND IT SPEAKS TO THEN HOW A MAJOR PART A ASSEMBLY REPUBLICAN JOB IF THEY WANT TO BE EFFECTIVE, TO USE THE BULLY PULPIT.

IT COULD TAKE TWO OR THREE YEARS BUT YOU CHANGE THE NARRATIVE AROUND SOMETHING THAT IT BECOMES A DEMOCRAT ISSUE, AND WE HAVE SEEN REPUBLICANS BE SUCCESSFUL IN CERTAIN AREAS WITH THAT BULLY PULPIT.

>> I THINK THIS VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER BILL, THE TAX CREDIT ACTUALLY TOOK PEOPLE BY SURPRISE.

FIRST THAT IT CAME TO THE FLOOR FOR A MOTION TO DISCHARGE BECAUSE IT PUT A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE SPOT BECAUSE VOLUNTEER FIREMEN COME IN ALL SHAPES, SIZES AND ALSO POLITICAL PERSUASIONS.

AND THIS PARTICULAR BILL HAS GOT TRACTION FROM NIAGARA FALLS TO THE SOUTH SORE OF LONG ISLAND.

I HAVE BEEN INUNDATED WITH, YOU KNOW, MEDIA REQUESTS AND WHEN I'M DONE WITH YOU, I WILL BE TALKING TO A LOCAL HOMETOWN TELEVISION STATION, SAME TOPIC.

THIS IS A BIG DEAL.

>> AND THE WAY YOU LAY THAT OUT REMINDS ME OF A COMMITTEE VOTE A FEW YEARS AGO DEALING WITH GOLD STAR FAMILIES AND ULTIMATELY THE BILL GOT HELD UP IN COMMITTEE AND THEN GOVERNOR ANDREW CUOMO PICKED UP THE ISSUE BECAUSE HE REBOUNDING-- RECOGNIZED IT AS A POLITICAL WINER.

>> THIS WOULD BE ONE FOR ANY MEMBER BECAUSE IT'S POLITICALLY IT'S WHAT THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE STATE DEPEND ON.

93% OF THE STATE PROTECTED BY VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTERS.

THEY COME IN BOTH PERSUASIONS.

FIRE DOESN'T KNOW A POLITICAL PARTY.

AND YOU KNOW, 2:00 IN THE MORNING ON THE WORST DAY OF YOUR LIFE IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS COMING BUT YOU WANT SOMEBODY TO COME.

AND RIGHT NOW THAT'S TEETERING ON DOUBT WHETHER SOMEBODY COULD ACTUALLY COME.

LIKE I SAID, I'M A VOLUNTEER FIREFIGHTER AND MY DEPARTMENT THAT I WORK FOR, I AM THE NUMBER ONE PERSON FOR RESPONDING TO CALLS AND I'M IN ALBANY SIX MONTHS OF THE YEAR.

AND I THINK LAST YEAR I RESPONDED TO 83 OR 87 CALLS AND YOU KNOW, BUT THAT'S-- I'M IN A COMBINATION DEPARTMENT.

MOST OF THE CALLS ARE HANDLED BY PAID STAFF.

>> ASSEMBLYMEMBER THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME.

>> A PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR ASKING ME.

>> THAT'S OUR SHOW.

MY THANKS TO ALL OF THIS MONTH'S GUESTS AS WELL AS KMHT FOR SHARING THEIR STUDIO WITH US.

CHECK OUT "THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM" WHEREVER YOU DOWN LOAD PODCASTS.

FOR A DEEPER DIVE INTO THE WORLD OF NEW YORK POLITICS CHECK OUT OUR INSIDER PODCAST DISPATCHES FROM PLANET ALBANY AVAILABLE ON ALL YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST PLATFORMS AND FOLLOW US ON YOUTUBE WHERE YOU CAN VISIT THIS MONTH'S EPISODE OR CATCH UP ON PAST MONTH'S EPISODES AND SHARE INTERVIEWS CAN HE CAPITOL.

I'M LOP LOME.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

-- I'M DAVID LOMBARDO THANKS FOR WATCHING.