ON THIS MONTH'S EDITION OF CONNECT-NEW YORK, WE'RE EXAMINING THE ROLE OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN SOCIETY, INCLUDING WHAT IT SHOULD COST AND WHO SHOULD GET IN.

ALL THAT, AND MUCH MORE, COMING UP NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO CONNECT-NEW YORK, I'M DAVID LOMBARDO - HOST OF WCNY'S THE CAPITOL PRESSROOM, A DAILY PUBLIC RADIO SHOW, BROADCASTING FROM THE STATE CAPITOL.

ON TODAY'S SHOW, WE'RE TURNING OUR ATTENTION TO HIGHER EDUCATION, SPECIFICALLY WHAT WE EXPECT FROM OUR COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES, AS WELL AS THE BARRIERS TO ENTRY.

AND BEFORE WE TAKE ON THOSE TOPICS WITH OUR PANEL OF STAKEHOLDERS, WE'RE GOING TO HEAR FROM SUNY CHANCELLOR JOHN KING, WHO LEADS THE STATE'S SYSTEM PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

WE SPOKE WITH CHANCELLOR KING, TWO WEEKS AFTER THE U.S. SUPREME COURT STRUCK DOWN THE USE OF AFFIRMATIVE ACTION FOR COLLEGE ADMISSIONS POLICIES EARLIER THIS SUMMER.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR MAKING THE TIME, CHANCELLOR KING.

I APPRECIATE IT.

>> EXCITED TO JOIN YOU.

>> I WANT TO BEGIN OUR CONVERSATION BY TALKING ABOUT THE BIG NATIONAL NEWS IN HIGHER EDUCATION RECENTLY, WHICH IS THE U.S. SUPREME COURT RULING THAT STRUCK DOWN THE AFFIRMATIVE ACTION POLICIES FROM UNC AND HARVARD.

HOW, IF AT ALL, CAN THIS POTENTIALLY IMPACT THE ADMISSION POLICIES IN THE SUNY SYSTEM?

>> YEAH, WELL, LOOK, IT IS HUGELY DISAPPOINTING DECISION.

IT SETS BACK THE COUNTRY'S PROGRESS ON ISSUES OF EQUITY.

THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT, AS A RESULT OF NOT BEING ABLE TO USE THE TOOL OF RACE CONSCIOUS ADMISSIONS, OUR COUNTRY'S MOST SELECTIVE COLLEGES WILL HAVE FEWER BLACK AND LATINO STUDENTS AND THAT IS BAD FOR THE HEALTH OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

THAT SAID, FOR US AT SUNY, LOOK, ACROSS OUR 64 CAMPUSES, THERE IS A PLACE FOR EVERY NEW YORK STUDENT AT SUNY.

AT OUR MOST SELECTIVE INSTITUTIONS, THAT'S OUR UNIVERSITY CENTERS PARTICULAR WILL I IN THE GRADUATE PROGRAMS AS WELL AS AT OUR MEDICAL SCHOOLS, WE HAVE LEVERAGED THE TOOL OF RACE CONSCIOUS ADMISSIONS AND WE WILL NOW NEED TO CHANGE OUR APPROACH TO MATCH WITH WHAT THE SUPREME COURT SAID.

WE'LL CONTINUE TO USE THE TOOLS AVAILABLE UNDER THE LAW.

FIRST GENERATION STATUS, SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS.

THE ADVERSITY THAT STUDENTS MAY HAVE OVERCOME IN THEIR LIVES.

WHAT STUDENTS SAY IN THE ESSAY ABOUT THEIR PERSONAL JOURNEY IN WHICH THE COURT WAS VERY CLEAR, THEY COULD TALK ABOUT RACE IN THE CONTEXT OF THEIR PERSONAL JOURNEY.

WE'LL CONTINUE TO USE ALL OF THOSE TOOLS, GEOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION, TO MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE A DIVERSE CLASS ACROSS SUNY BECAUSE DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION ARE CORE VALUES FOR US.

>> DO YOU NEED TO PROACTIVELY MAKE CHANGES TO THE ADMISSIONS POLICY OR CAN YOU, I DON'T KNOW, CROSS YOUR FINGERS AND HOPE THERE ISN'T A LEGAL CHALLENGE TO THE ADMISSIONS POLICIES AS THEY EXIST NOW?

>> WE'LL NEED TO MAKE SURE AT OUR CAMPUSES THEY UNDERSTAND, THAT AS A RESULT OF THE COURT DECISION, RACE, AS A CATEGORY CAN'T BE USED IN MAKING THE DECISION BUT THE COURT WAS CLEAR THAT STUDENTS COULD TALK ABOUT THE ROLE RACE HAS PLAYED IN THEIR IDENTITY FORMATION AND ADVERSITY THEY MAY HAVE OVERCOME.

AND WE'LL CONTINUE TO LOOK AT STUDENTS ESSAYS, TO UNDERSTAND STUDENTS PERSONAL JOURNEYS.

>> I WANT TO TURN TO THE SUNY SYSTEM AND THE ROLE OF IT MORE BROADLY IN 2023.

AND BEYOND.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE VALUE OF A COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY DEGREE FROM THE SUNY SYSTEM?

>> YEAH, YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS THERE ARE TWO CORE VALUES.

THERE IS THE VALUE AROUND, KIND OF PERSONAL ECONOMIC MOBILITY, WE KNOW THAT FOLKS WHO HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE EARN A MILLION DOLLARS MORE OVER THE COURSE OF THEIR CAREER.

WE KNOW THAT SUNY, FOR GENERATIONS ACROSS OUR 75-YEAR HISTORY HAS BEEN AN ENGINE OF ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY, HELPING FOLKS MOVE INTO THE MIDDLE-CLASS AND SEIZE ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY.

AND THERE IS A SECOND DIMENSION THERE IS A CITIZENSHIP DIMENSION.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT I STARTED MY CAREER IN EDUCATION AS A HIGH SCHOOL SOCIAL STUDIES AND CIVICS TEACHER.

TO ME, IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE PREPARE STUDENTS TO PARTICIPATE IN OUR DEMOCRACY, TO ENGAGE WITH THEIR NEIGHBORS AND SOLVING COMMUNITY CHALLENGES, THAT THEY'RE PREPARED TO LEAD A FULFILLING LIFE, CONTRIBUTING TO THEIR COMMUNITY.

>> WELL, IT SEEMS LIKE WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING THERE IS THE IDEA OF CREATING NOT ONLY A WELL ROUNDED ADULT BUT ALSO AN ADULT WHO IS ABLE TO NAVIGATE A 20 FIRST CENTURY WORKFORCE, A WORKFORCE THAT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE SPECIALIZED.

IS THAT REASONABLE TO EXPECT FROM FOUR YEARS?

>> IT'S A LOT TO ASK, BUT WE ARE DOING IT.

WE ARE DELIVERING ON IT, YOU KNOW, YOU THINK ABOUT THE WAYS IN WHICH WE ARE SEEING AN ADVANCED MANUFACTURING RENAISSANCE IN NEW YORK STATE.

SUNY'S TWO-YEAR COMMUNITY COLLEGES AS WELL AS OUR FOUR YEAR INSTITUTIONS ARE PLAYING A KEY ROLE.

YOU THINK ABOUT THE JOBS COMING TO CENTRAL NEW YORK BECAUSE MICRON IS COMING, THE SEMICONDUCTOR COMPANY, AND ALL THE SUPPLY CHAIN COMPANIES THAT WILL SUPPORT THEM.

50,000 JOBS.

IT'S GOING TO BE OPTIONED COMMUNITY COLLEGE, SUNY OSWEGO THAT WILL HELP PROVIDE THE PIPELINE OF EMPLOYEES, SUNY POLY WHERE WE ARE TRAINING ENGINEERS.

YOU THINK ABOUT THE GREEN JOBS THAT WE ARE GOING TO NEED TO FILL AS WE MOVE TOWARDS RENEWABLE ENERGY.

AGAIN, IT'S GOING TO BE SUNY INSTITUTIONS THAT PLAY A VITAL ROLE THERE.

>> AND DO YOU SEE A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE AS BEING THE LAUNCHING PAD INTO THE WORKFORCE, OR IS IT A LAUNCHING PAD TO A GRADUATE DEGREE NOW SINCE SO MANY MORE PROFESSIONS REQUIRE OR AT LEAST WANT THAT SPECIALIZED DEGREE, WHETHER IT'S A MASTERS OR MAYBE EVEN A DOCTORATE?

>> YOU KNOW, IT REALLY CAN BE EITHER AND WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE STUDENTS HAVE THE OPTIONS.

WHEN WE THINK ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY COLLEGES, STUDENTS ARE EARNING MAYBE A CAREER CREDENTIAL.

THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT PUTS THEM ON THE PATH TO EARNING AN ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE.

ONCE THEY HAVE THAT ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE THAT MAY PUT THEM ON A PATH TO TRANSFER TO A FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTION.

ONCE THEY HAVE THE FOUR-YEAR DEGREE THEY MAY AT A LATER POINT COME BACK AND GET A MASTERS BECAUSE OF THE REQUIREMENTS OF THEIR PROFESSION OR BECAUSE THEY WANT TO MOVE UP AT THE WORKPLACE AND MOVE INTO A MANAGEMENT ROLE, FOR EXAMPLE.

SO WE WANT STUDENTS TO HAVE CHOICES AND THE WONDERFUL THING ABOUT SUNY, WE'VE GOT 64 UNITED STATES TUITIONS WITH LOTS OF CHOICES THAT ARE AFFORDABLE.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT ECONOMIC MOBILITY BEING ONE OF THE GOALS MUCH A SUNY DEGREE.

SO IN TERMS OF AN INVESTMENT TO REALIZE ECONOMIC MOBILITY, THE FUTURE EARNINGS, WHAT SHOULD NEW YORKERS BE PREPARED TO PAY?

I'M NOT ASKING HOW MUCH TUITION AND ROOM AND BOARD SHOULD COST PER DOLLAR AMOUNT, BUT SHOULD IT BE AN INVESTMENT?

SHOULD IT TAKE AN INDIVIDUAL OR A FAMILY SAVING MONEY, PUTTING ASIDE MONEY, MAKING HARD CHOICES?

>> YEAH, LOOK, I'VE ALWAYS THOUGHT WE SHOULD, AS A COUNTRY, TRY TO GET TO DEBT-FREE COLLEGE.

SO STUDENTS, BASED ON THEIR FAMILY INCOME, SHOULD HAVE SOME SKIN IN THE GAME AND THEY MAY HAVE TO WORK.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN YOU GRADUATE WITH YOUR DEGREE, IF WE MAKE THE RIGHT INVESTMENT AS A COUNTRY AND AS A STATE, YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO GRADUATE WITHOUT DEBT.

THINK ABOUT THIS.

AT SUNY, 53% OF THE STUDENTS IN OUR FOUR-YEAR INSTITUTIONS PAY NO TUITION TODAY BECAUSE OF THE TAP PROGRAM, THE EXCELSIOR PROGRAM, THE FEDERAL PELL GRANT PROGRAM.

WE SHOULD GROW THAT NUMBER.

I WOULD LOVE TO GET TO A PLACE WHERE STUDENTS COULD KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THEIR COLLEGE DEGREE AFFORDABLY WITHOUT DEBT.

>> EL WITH, THERE IS THIS IDEA THAT YOU MENTIONED OF PUTTING SKIN IN THE GAME.

BUT WE DON'T ASK KIDS AND THEIR PARENTS TO PONY UP FOR PART OF THEIR K-12 DEGREE.

SO WHY WOULD THERE BE A DIFFERENCE IN THE WAY WE PERCEIVE THE INVESTMENT NEEDED FOR A COLLEGE DEGREE?

>> WELL, LOOK, WHEN I WAS SECRETARY OF EDUCATION FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA, I MADE THE CASE FOR TUITION-FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE.

SO I WOULD SEPARATE TUITION FROM ROOM AND BOARD.

WHETHER IT'S AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE LEVEL OR THE FOUR-YEAR LEVEL, ROOM AND BOARD IS AN OPTION.

SOME OF OUR STUDENTS LIVE AT HOME, BUT MANY ARE LIVING ON CAMPUS 689 AND SO THAT CHANGES THE COST STRUCTURE.

SO THERE MAY BE A WAY IN WHICH STUDENTS HAVE TO CONTRIBUTE THERE.

BUT I LONG HAVE ADVOCATED FOR TUITION-FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND THINK WE COULD GET THERE AS A COUNTRY.

>> ASIDE FROM THE PRICE TAG, WHAT DO YOU THINK DIFFERENTIATES A PUBLIC EDUCATION EXPERIENCE IN NEW YORK FROM, SAY, GOING TO A PRIVATE COLLEGE OR NEW YORK AND THE EMPIRE STATE?

>> LOOK, FOR 75 YEARS, THE SUNY BRAND HAS BEEN EXCELLENT.

AND AFFORDABLE.

AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE KINDS OF EXPERIENCES STUDENTS COULD HAVE AT A STONY BROOK OR UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO, INSTITUTIONS COMPETTED TIFF WITH THE BEST RESEARCH INSTITUTIONS IN THE COUNTRY, OR YOU THINK ABOUT THE KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES STUDENTS MIGHT HAVE AT THE ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCE AND FORESTRY SCHOOL IN SYRACUSE OR AT SUNY MARITIME IN THE BRONX WHERE FOLKS ARE BEING PREPARED FOR JOBS IN THE SHIPPING INDUSTRY WHERE THAT CAN START AT SIX FIGURES.

WE ARE OFFERING STUDENTS A PATH TO PURSUE THEIR DREAMS AND THEY'RE ABLE TO DO IT AFFORDABLY.

OUR TUITION IS A LITTLE OVER $7,000.

ABOUT 30% LOWER THAN MANY OF OUR PEER INSTITUTIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY.

>> WELL, FINALLY, THE PANDEMIC SEEMS TO HAVE ACCELERATED THE MOVE, AT LEAST IN SOME HIGHER EDUCATION SETTINGS, OF TRANSITIONING CLASSES TO A REMOTE EXPERIENCE.

HOW CONCERNED, IF AT ALL, ARE YOU ABOUT THAT TRANSITION POTENTIALLY WEAKENING THE OVERALL COLLEGE EXPERIENCE, BOTH IN TERMS OF SOCIALIZATION AS WELL AS WHAT KIDS MIGHT GET FROM THE CLASSROOM?

>> WELL, LOOK, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT STUDENTS HAVE OPTIONS WITHIN THE SUNY SYSTEM.

YOU KNOW, YOU THINK ABOUT SUNY EMPIRE WHERE STUDENTS CAN COMPLETE THEIR ENTIRE DEGREE THROUGH ONLINE LEARNING.

IN CONTRAST, YOU THINK ABOUT BINGHAMTON OR GENESEEIA WHERE THE ON CAMPUS LEARNING EXPERIENCE, THE LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGE EXPERIENCE IS VITAL.

SO THOSE ARE DIFFERENT KINDS OF EXPERIENCES.

FOR THE WORKING 35-YEAR-OLD PARENT, THE EMPIRE EXPERIENCE MIGHT MAKE MORE SENSE, WHEREAS FOR THE 18-YEAR-OLD STUDENT WHO WANTS A SMALL LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGE EXPERIENCE WITH RIGOROUS ACADEMIC OPPORTUNITIES, CLOSE RELATIONSHIPS WITH FACULTY MEMBERS, SUNY GENESEEIA MIGHT BE RIGHT CHOICE FOR THEM.

>> SUNY CHANCELLOR JOHN KING, I APPRECIATE YOU JOINING THIS SUNY GENESEO ALUM FOR THIS CONVERSATION.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> FOR MORE ON ALL THOSE ISSUES, WE ARE TURNING TO OUR GUESTS IN THE STUDIO AND THEY ARE FRED COWALL, PRESIDENT OF THE UNION REPRESENTING FACULTY AND STAFF IN THE SUNY SYSTEM - SHUKRI MOHAMED, A MASTER'S STUDENT AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY - DAVID MATHIS, A TRUSTEE WITH THE MOHAWK VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND CHRISTOPHER PERRELLO, AN ASSISTANT TEACHING PROFESSOR AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

I WANT TO START WITH YOU PERFECTION SHUKRI, WHEN YOU DECIDED TO GO TO COLLEGE, WHAT DID YOU HOP TO GET OUT OF THAT EXPERIENCE AND NOW THAT YOU HAVE FINISHED YOUR UNDERGRADUATE EXPERIENCE, HOW DID THE FOUR YEARS COMPARE TO WHAT YOU WERE EXPECKING GOING IN?

>> STARTING OFF WITH MY BACHELOR'S, I WAS EXPECKING AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.

I WENT IN THINKING I WAS GOING TO TAKE ALL THE REQUIRED COURSES FOR ME TO BECOME A HISTORY TEACHER.

THAT WAS MY GOAL IN LIFE, SINCE I WAS IN SIXTH GRADE I WANTED TO BE A HISTORY TEACHER.

AND I WENT IN AND I SAW A WHOLE DIFFERENT EXPERIENCE.

SO I WAS THINKING, YOU KNOW, YOU JUST TAKE THESE REQUIRED CLASSES, YOU FINISH AND THAT WOULD BE ALL.

BUT IT OPENED MY EYES TO A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT CLASSES TO TAKE.

I WENT TO AN UPSTATE COLLEGE AND YOU HAVE TAKE ADDITIONAL CLASSES IN ADDITION TO YOUR REQUIRED CLASSES.

SO YOU GET TO TAKE MATH CLASSES, YOU GET TO TAKE STUFF IN THE BUSINESS CLASS, AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT CLASSES THAT WOULD YOU HAVE TO TAKE.

AND SO THAT EXPANDED MY HORIZON AS TO WHAT I COULD GET OUT OF THIS LIFE.

I WANTED TO BE A HISTORY TEACHER BUT NOW THE GOAL IS, WELL, WHAT IS THE GOAL?

BECAUSE MY HORIZON HAS BEEN EXPANDED SO MUCH NOW I HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT OPTIONS AS TO WHERE COULD I GO IN THE FUTURE.

>> SO CHRIS, WHEN YOU HEAR THAT STORY, TO ME, THAT SOUNDS KIND OF LIKE THE ALMOST STEREOTYPICAL IDEA OF WHAT WE WANT COLLEGE TO BE; THIS IDEA OF EXPANDING YOUR HORIZONS WHILE ALSO PREPARING YOU FOR THE WORKFORCE.

IS THAT THE REALISTIC POSSIBILITY FOR EVERYONE?

IS THAT WHAT SYRACUSE STRIVES FOR FOR ALL OF ITS STUDENTS OR DO YOU GUYS HAVE MORE LIMITED EXPECTATIONS?

>> WELL, I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT WE WANT OUR STUDENTS TO GET OUT OF THEIR EXPERIENCE AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY IS A FABULOUS ON CAMPUS EXPERIENCE, WHERE THERE IS ROBUST OPPORTUNITIES FOR STUDENTS TO DEVELOP SOFT SKILLS, TO BRING INTO THE WORKFORCE, AND TO TAKE THOSE SKILLS TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THEIR PROFESSIONAL ENDEAVORS.

LISTENING TO HER STORY IS PRETTY COMMON AMONG OUR STUDENTS AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

WE KNOW THAT IT'S AN EXPENSIVE SCHOOL, RIGHT?

THAT'S PRETTY OBVIOUS AND HONEST TO UNDERSTAND.

AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE SHOWING AN INVESTMENT IN OUR STUDENTS, NOT JUST THROUGH ROBUST ON CAMPUS ACTIVITIES BUT EXPERIENTIAL LEARNING OPPORTUNITIES THAT ALLOW STUDENTS TO EXPAND THEIR SOFT SKILLS.

SO THEY CAN BE SUCCESSFUL.

THE PRICE TAG, TO ME, ALSO, IMPLIES THAT WE HAVE STRONG ACCESS FOR OUR STUDENTS.

WE HAVE AN AMAZING ALUMNI NETWORK IN ALL DIFFERENT CORNERS OF THE GLOBE, MANY DIFFERENT FIELDS AND INDUSTRIES WHICH WOULD ALLOW OUR STUDENTS TO GET OPPORTUNITIES THAT MAYBE THEY CAN'T GET AT OTHER INSTITUTIONS.

>> WELL, DAVID, AS SOMEONE WHO NOW HAS THE EXPERIENCE OF GOING THROUGH A MULTITUDE OF DIFFERENT COLLEGE EXPERIENCES AND NOW BEING CONNECTED WITH A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE ROLE OF FOUR-YEAR COLLEGES?

>> WELL, I THINK FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE IS VERY IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, HOWEVER, I WOULD SAY, FOR ME, GETTING MY ASSOCIATE'S AT A COMMUNITY COLLEGE WAS PROBABLY THE DOOR THAT WAS OPEN AND THEN IT OPENED A DOOR FOR A FOUR-YEAR EXPERIENCE AT UTICA COLLEGE OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, WHICH I'M PROUD OF.

BUT I'M ALSO PROUD OF MY ASSOCIATE'S DEGREE FROM MOAFL.

THE FROM MOHAWK VALLEY.

THE DIFFERENCE IS THAT I STAYED HOME.

I DIDN'T WANT TO ACQUIRE DEBT.

SO BY LIVING AT HOME, I DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY ROOM AND BOARD AND I WAS ABLE TO WORK.

SO WHEN I GRADUATED WITH A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE, MY TOTAL STUDENT LOAN DEBT WAS $2500.

>> AND WHEN YOU SAY THE DOOR THAT WAS OPEN TO YOU, WAS IT SIMPLY ABOUT THE MONEY ISSUE?

WAS IT ABOUT NEEDING TO STAY NEAR HOME?

TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.

>> IN THE BEGINNING AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE LEVEL, IT WAS ABOUT THE OPPORTUNITY.

I WAS A FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT.

SO I DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF EXPERIENCE.

AS A MATTER OF FACT, IT TOOK ME THREE AND A HALF YEARS TO GET MY ASSOCIATES BECAUSE I WORKED FULL TIME.

BUT THAT OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK AT A CAREER.

MY MAJOR AT MOHAWK VALLEY WAS RETAIL MANAGEMENT.

I HAD THE GOAL OF RUNNING A DEPARTMENT STORE OR BEING A REGIONAL MANAGER.

SO HAVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO MOVE DOWN A CAREER PATHWAY IS WHAT THAT DOOR WAS.

WAS IT PRIMARILY ABOUT A CAREER OR WERE YOU INTERESTED IN THE EXPANDING OF HORIZONS THAT CAN OFTEN COME WITH HIGHER EDUCATION, THE IDEA OF BECOMING A MORE WELL ROUNDED ADULT?

>> I THINK GOING BACK I WAS WORKING AT A MANUFACTURING FACILITY IN THE MAIL ROOM.

AND I GOT A LOT OF ENCOURAGEMENT FROM THE ENGINEERS AND THE OFFICE MANAGERS, TO SAY GET OUT OF THERE BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND 30, 40 YEARS PASSING MAIL AROUND.

SO IT WAS THEM THAT GAVE ME THE PUSH TO LEAVE MY JOB AND TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL FULL TIME.

>> PRIMARILY A LAUNCHING PAD THEN.

>> RIGHT.

>> GOTCH ARC.

FRED, AS SOMEONE INVOLVED IN THE SUNY SYSTEM WHICH HAS A WIDE VARIETY OF OPPORTUNITIES AND FACILITIES, WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE SUNY EXPERIENCE THAT IS OFFERED TO KIDS?

>> I THINK WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT WHAT IS WE HAVE BEEN HEARING, THE IDEA OF OPPORTUNITY.

EVERYONE SPEAKS OF THAT.

WE HEARD THE CHANCELLOR, EVERYBODY HERE IS TALKING ABOUT OPPORTUNITY.

AND I THINK THAT'S TRUCIAL IN THE CASE OF SUNY.

WHAT IS AVAILABLE IS A WIDE VARIETY OF OPTIONS.

AND WHETHER IT'S A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, WHETHER IT'S A MEDICAL SCHOOL LIKE HERE AT UPSTATE, WHETHER IT'S A GREAT ENGINEERING PROGRAM, YOU HAVE ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT OPTIONS AND WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT IT GIVES OPPORTUNITIES TO THOSE WHO COME FROM BIRCHT AREAS.

AND DIFFERENT SOCIOECONOMIC LEVELS.

THE IDEA OF GRANTING ABOPPORTUNITY TO THOSE WHO MAY NOT OTHERWISE ATTEND COLLEGE OR EVEN THINK ATTEND COLLEGE.

THAT'S WHERE IT BECOMES SO VITAL.

THIS IS A PUBLIC GOOD.

IT HELPS PEOPLE MOVE INTO THE MIDDLE-CLASS, BUT JUST GIVING AN INDIVIDUAL THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPAND THEIR HORIZONS, TO BECOME A WELL ROUNDED CITIZEN.

ADDITION EA, I WOULD SAY, THAT BY GOING TO WHETHER IT'S A COMMUNITY COLLEGE, A TECHNOLOGY CAMPUS OR ONE OF OUR COMPREHENSIVE CAMPUSES OR UNIVERSITY CENTERS, WHAT YOU DO IS YOU ARE BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER FROM A VARIETY OF COMMUNITIES.

WE ARE MISSING THAT IN THIS SOCIETY.

AND YOU SEE THE DEEP DIVISIONS IN OUR SOCIETY BECAUSE THERE ISN'T A SOCIAL NEEDS BY WHICH PEOPLE ARE BROUGHT TOGETHER, SHARE SPACE, SHARE LIFE AND I THINK HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTIONS ARE UNIQUELY POSITIONED TO DO THAT.

AND I THINK THAT'S CRUCIAL AT THIS STAGE.

ANOTHER ASPECT AS TO WHY THE SUNY SYSTEM IS A PUBLIC GOOD, DESERVING MUCH MORE FINANCIAL INVESTMENT AND COMMITMENT FROM THE STATE.

>> JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT WHAT Mr. FRED SAID.

SO I'M A FIRST GENERATION COLLEGE STUDENT, FIRST GENERATION IMMIGRANT.

MY FAMILY IS LOW INCOME.

I'M ALSO A WOMAN IN HIGHER EDUCATION SO THAT REALLY JUST PUTS ME AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LADDER WE HAVE CREATED IN THIS SOCIETY.

SO COLLEGE-- AND I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT WHAT YOU SAID ALSO, COLLEGE BEING AN EXPERIENCE, RIGHT?

I ALSO LIVED OFF CAMPUS AND I WORKED TWO JOBS AT THE SAME TIME.

BUT IT WAS ALSO A COLLEGE THAT ALLOWED ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE DIFFERENT THINGS.

I WAS ABLE TO GO TO BOSTON A COUPLE TILES, NEW YORK CITY WHICH I OTHERWISE WOULD NEVER HAVE GOTTEN A CHANCE TO.

MY PARENTS DON'T MAKE ENOUGH FOR US TO TRAVEL OFTEN.

I ALSO WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO COME SEE ALL THE DIFFERENT JOBS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

LIKE PEOPLE WORKING IN LOCKHEED MARTIN UPSTATE OR GOING DOWN TO NEW YORK CITY AND SEEING GOLDMAN SACHS, I BELIEVE IS THE SAME FOR IT.

BUT SEEING ALL THESE DIFFERENT COMPANIES.

IT'S NOT AN OPPORTUNITY THAT I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN UNLESS I HAD THAT SEAT AT THE TABLE IN A COLLEGE CAMPUS.

>> YOU BOTH TALK ABOUT OPPORTUNITY.

I THINK ABOUT MY OWN COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.

I MAJORED IN INTRAMURAL SPORTS AND DRINKING.

I DIDN'T TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ALL THE OPPORTUNITIES.

YOU CLEARLY HAVE SEEN THIS AS OPPORTUNITIES AND HAVE SEIZED THEM.

DO COLLEGES, IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, DO ENOUGH TO THAN ENSURE THAT STUDENTS ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THOSE OPPORTUNITIES, TO EXPERIENCE DIFFERENT THINGS, TO BECOME WELL ROUNDED ADULTS IN THE FUTURE?

>> I THINK A FOOT HAS BEEN PUT FORWARD, I GUESS IS ONE WAY OF SAYING IT.

I THINK COLLEGES COULD DEFINITELY BE DOING MORE TO ENGAGE THEIR STUDENTS WHETHER IT'S ON CAMPUS, OFF CAMPUS.

AND I SAY THIS ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, BEING A SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY ALUM, BEING AN ALUM FOR LeMOYNE COLLEGE AS WELL, PUTTING THE STUDENTS OUT THERE IN THE CITIES, ESPECIALLY HERE IN SYRACUSE, WE HAVE SO MANY DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES, WHETHER IT'S JOBS OR THINGS TO DO.

BUT I FEAR THAT STUDENTS DON'T NECESSARILY GET TO SEE THE BEAUTY NET CITY BECAUSE THE COLLEGES ARE NOT NECESSARILY CREATING THE SPACES TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

AND THAT GOES FOR ON CAMPUS AS WELL, CREATING THE SPACES WHERE IT'S MORE THAN JUST DRINKING.

IT'S SEEING THE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES THAT OR CAMPUS, THE DIFFERENT CLUBS, DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES, SPORTS, SPORTING EVENTS.

I THINK A LITTLE MORE EFFORT COULD BE PUT IN THAT WAY.

YEAH, SO I THINK THAT'S ONE WAY OF GOING ABOUT IT.

>> CHRIS, HOW DO YOU TRANSLATE THE OPPORTUNITIES INTO REAL LIVED EXPERIENCES FOR STUDENTS?

>> SO AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, THE SCHOOL OF INFORMATION STUDIES WHERE I WAS DIRECTOR OF CAREER SERVICES FOR SEVERAL YEARS, WE HAD A VERY ROBUST EXPERIENTIAL LEARNING PROGRAM THERE WHERE WE PROMISED OUR STUDENTS COMING IN THAT WE RUN THESE WEEK TO THREE-WEEK LONG IMMERSION PROGRAMS WHERE WE BRING STUDENTS OUT TO SILICON VALLEY FOR SEVERAL WEEKS.

THEY CAN EARN 3, 6 CREDITS.

WE BRING THEM IN EUROPE WHERE THEY CAN VISIT SWITZERLAND AND PARLIAMENT IN LONDON, VERY LOW COST FOR THEM.

OF COURSE THEY'RE PAYING FOR THAT ACCESS COMING TO SYRACUSE.

BUT WE USE IT AS AN ADMISSIONS TOOL, TOO, TO MARKET TO STUDENTS TO SAY HEY, LOOK AT WHAT YOU GET COMING TO THE SCHOOL OF INFORMATION STUDIES OR COMING TO ARTS AND SCIENCES AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

YOU CANS EARN CREDITS AND VISIT INDUSTRY, MAKE THE CONNECTIONS WITH ALUMNI AND POSSIBLY GET AN INTERNSHIP OR GET A FULL-TIME JOB OUT OF IT.

>> HOW DO YOU ENSURE THE STUDENT WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT, AGAIN, BRINGING IT BACK TO MYSELF.

I'M KICKING MYSELF 15 YEARS LATER FOR NOT GOING ABROAD FOR A SEMESTER BECAUSE IT WOULD HAVE BEEN A CHEAP WAY TO SEE EUROPE.

I'M KICKING MYSELF FOR NOT DOING AN INTERNSHIP IN D.C.

WHEN I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY.

HOW DO YOU ACTUALLY MAKE THE KIDS WHO MIGHT BE FOCUSED IN SOME OTHER THINGS, SOME OF THE DEBAUCHERY AVAILABLE TO THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME AND ENSURE THEY DO THE OPPORTUNITIES?

>> WE HAVE A VERY STRONG PEER LEADERSHIP PROGRAM.

PEER MENTOR PROGRAM.

SO SHOWING STUDENTS, LIKE IF I'M JUST THE PROFESSOR, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO LISTEN TO ME.

BUT THEY WILL LISTEN TO THEIR PEERS.

IF THEIR PEERS WERE ABLE TO GET AN INTERNSHIP WITH LOCKHEED MARTIN OR WITH GOOGLE BECAUSE THEY ATTENDED ONE OF THESE PROGRAMS, THAT'S GOING TO GIVE THEM ENOUGH INCENTIVE TO JUMP IN ON THE BANDWAGON AND DO IT.

THAT'S WAS WE'VE SEEN AT SYRACUSE.

>> I ACTUALLY DID TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE D.C.

SEMESTER WHEN I WAS AN UNDERGRAD.

>> AND THAT'S WHY YOU ARE PRESIDENT AND I'M A TV HOST.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM.

>> AND THERE WAS DEBAUCHERY BUT IT WAS A LEARNING EXPERIENCE IN THE NATION'S CAPITOL.

NO, I THINK THAT WHERE I-- WHAT I SEE HAPPENING IN THE SUNY SYSTEM WITH THE PROFESSIONALS AND THE FACULTY THAT WE REPRESENT AT UUP IS THAT THERE IS A VERY STRONG EFFORT TO PROVIDE THESE KIND OF EXPERIENCES THAT YOU FOLKS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.

WHAT HAS BEEN TROUBLING IS REALLY TWO THINGS THAT WE HAVE SEEN, OR I HAVE SEEN AS I'M OUT VISITING CAMPUSES AND TALKING TO THE STUDENTS WE WORK WITH.

FIRST, BECAUSE OF THE UNDERINVESTMENT IN SUNY FOR 15 YEARS, THE STAFF IS OVERWORKED, MAY NOT HAVE THE SPACE LEFT TO DO AS MUCH AS THEY WOULD LIKE TO DO IN THESE SORTS OF PROGRAMS.

BUT SECONDLY,WE GET STUDENTS WHO COME IN AND, YES, THE CHANCELLOR IS CORRECT.

57% GRADUATE OR DON'T HAVE TO PAY ANY TUITION.

BUT THEY HAVE TO PAY FEES.

THEY HAVE TO PAY ROOM AND BOARD.

A LOT OF OUR STUDENTS-- I MET TWO STUDENTS HERE IN SYRACUSE AT E.S.F.

A FEW MONTHS AGO.

THEY'RE WORKING TWO JOBS IN ORDER FOR THEM TO PAY THEIR DINING SERVICE FEES.

SO I THINK IT'S CRUCIAL FOR US TO REALIZE THAT, AS LONG AS THE BURDEN IS PLACED ON STUDENTS TO PAY FOR THE EDUCATION, YOU ARE GOING TO CREATE A SITUATION WHERE THEY HAVE VERY DIFFICULT CHOICES.

WE THEY'D TO INVEST IN OUR FUTURE, WHICH ARE OUR STUDENTS.

AND IN DOING SO, WE ARE GOING TO GIVE EVERYONE THE GREAT KIND OF OPPORTUNITIES THAT YOU'VE HEARD ABOUT.

AND THEY CAN GET AT SUNY SCHOOLS BUT UNFORTUNATELY, SOME OF THAT HAS BEEN CURTAILED BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF PUBLIC COMMITMENT.

DEFINITELY DURING THE CUOMO YEARS.

THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN THE LAST TWO YEARS UNDER GOVERNOR HOCHUL, BUT WE NEED TO MAKE THAT COMMITMENT.

>> I DEFINITELY SEE THAT AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE LEVEL.

BACK IN THE DAY, WHEN COMMUNITY COLLEGES FUNDING FORMULA WAS A THIRD STUDENTS, THIRD FROM THE COUNTY, THIRD FROM THE STATE.

RIGHT NOW IT'S BASICALLY THE STUDENTS WHO ARE TAKING THE BIGGEST HIT, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF FUNDING.

AND THEN THE COUNTIES HAVE KICKED IN.

BUT THE STATE HAS, FOR PROBABLY THE LAST 20 OR 30 YEARS, FALLING SHORT OF THEIR COMMITMENT TO FUND HIGHER ED AT THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE LEVEL.

>> AND THERE IS A RECOGNITION AMONGST STATE LAWMAKERS, STATE POLICY MAKERS THAT WE ARE NOT HEADING TO THE THIRD, THIRD, THIRD BREAKDOWN ANY TIME SOON.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT SOMETHING FRED TALKED ABOUT, THE COST TO STUDENTS, I'M CURIOUS WHETHER YOU THINK THAT WE ARE CREATING A MULTITIER SYSTEM DAVID, WHERE DISADVANTAGED STUDENTS, IF THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO GET MONEY TO GO A FOUR-YEAR COLLEGE ARE ENDING UP IN OUR TWO-YEAR SYSTEM, OUR SYSTEM OF COMMUNITY COLLEGES, AND WHETHER THAT'S A BAD THING NECESSARILY.

IF WE ARE NOT SEEING KIDS FROM AFLUPT FAMILIES GOING TO COMMUNITY COLLEGES AND WHETHER WE ARE CREATING A MULTITIERED SYSTEM?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK WE WERE TALKING EARLIER ABOUT OPPORTUNITY.

AND YOU KNOW, I'M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT WE NEED AS MANY OPPORTUNITIES THAT WE CAN CREATE FOR STUDENTS BECAUSE THAT SHOULD BE OUR GOAL.

TO FIND OPPORTUNITIES IN HIGHER ED THAT FITS WHATEVER YOUR PARTICULAR NEEDS ARE.

SO IF IT'S TWO-YEAR SCHOOL OR AS FRED SAID, A UNIVERSITY CENTER OR FOUR-YEAR, THEN THOSE SHOULD BE AVAILABLE.

AND IT SHOULD BE MORE OF A COMMITMENT ON THE PART OF OUR SOCIETY TO FUND THOSE OPPORTUNITIES BECAUSE IN THE END, WE ARE GOING TO BENEFIT.

YOU KNOW, I RUN THE COUNTY OF ONEIDA'S WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT OFFICE.

I GET TO WORK WITH STUDENTS AND ADULTS WHO ARE MAKING TRANSITIONS IN RESEARCHES TO THE WORKFORCE AND I'M ALWAYS SAYING, YOU KNOW, TAKE A LOOK AT MAYBE TAKING A COURSE IN THE EVENING OR DOING SOMETHING ON THE WEEKEND.

START PREPARING YOURSELF BECAUSE IT'S GOING TO BE CRITICAL, ESPECIALLY IN THE WORKFORCE, THAT YOU ARE GOING TO NEED AT LEAST A TWO-YEAR DEGREE OR CERTIFICATE IN ORDER TO HAVE EMPLOYMENT THAT'S GOING TO BE BENEFICIAL TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.

>> AND WHAT ARE THE TYPES OF SPECIALIZED DEGREES OR CERTIFICATES THAT YOU CAN GET FROM TWO-YEAR EXPERIENCE?

>> I THINK RIGHT AT THE TOP IS NURSING.

HEALTHCARE.

IT'S CRITICAL IN TERMS OF WHERE WE ARE IN NEW YORK STATE AND WHERE WE ARE IN OUR SOCIETY.

I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT RIGHT NOW WE ARE SHORT ON TRACTOR-TRAILER DRIVERS.

SO MOHAWK VALLEY WE ARE TURNING OUT TRACTOR-TRAILER DRIVERS.

WE ARE GETTING READY TO BUILD A NEW FACILITY ON CAMPUS.

LIKE THE CHANCELLOR SAID WITH MICRON COMING IN, WE ARE ALSO GOING TO BE AFFECTED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, ONEIDA COUNTY WE ARE VERY CLOSE TO ONONDAGA COUNTY.

SO WE ARE GOING TO BE PUTTING UP , I THINK IT'S LIKE A $32 MILLION FACILITY TO HELP TRAIN WORKERS TO COMMUTE TO CLAY TO WORK AT MICRON.

>> CHRIS, DAVE BRINGS UP AN INTERESTING POINT WHICH IS THE IDEA OF FILLING THE GAPS IN OUR WORKFORCE.

IS THERE A WAY THOUGH FOR HIGHER EDUCATION TO BE AHEAD OF THE CURVE WHEN IT COMES TO MEETING THE NEEDS OF OUR ECONOMY?

IT SEEMS LIKE WE ARE ALWAYS FIGHTING THE LAST WAR, LIKE NOW WE ARE PIVOTING TO ADVANCE MANUFACTURING.

NOW WE ARE DOING THE THING WITH TRUCK DRIVERS.

NOW WE ARE RECOGNIZING THE NEED FOR HEALTHCARE WORKERS.

CAN WE STAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE OR IS IT NOT POSSIBLE?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE.

IN MY OPINION, IT TAKES A LOT OF NETWORKING AND COMMUNICATION WITH EMPLOYERS.

AND I THINK BECAUSE EMPLOYERS-- THAT'S WHERE THE CHANGE IS HAPPENING, AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF INFORMATION STUDIES, WE ARE TRYING TO PREPARE STUDENTS FOR JOBS THAT DO NOT EXIST YET.

AND SO HOW DO YOU TEACH SKILLS IN JOBS THAT DON'T EXIST AND YOU CAN'T ANTICIPATE WHAT THOSE ARE.

WORKING WITH EMPLOYERS, THEY SEEM TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THE NEEDS ARE FOR THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS MORE THAN HIGHER EDUCATION.

SO WITHOUT CREATING HIGHER ED INTO JUST THIS GIANT BUBBLE THAT JUST SERVES AS A WORKFORCE PUMP, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO WORK CLOSELY AND COLLABORATIVELY WITH EMPLOYERS TO SEE WHAT WE ARE GOING TO NEED.

RIGHT NOW AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, I WOULD SAY DATA SCIENCE IS REALLY ONE OF THOSE AREAS WHERE ALL STUDENTS SHOULD BE TAKING A CLASS OR TWO IN DATA SCIENCE OR DATA ANALYTICS SO THAT WAY THEY CAN BE MORE PREPARED TO GO INTO THE WORKFORCE WHERE USING DATA TO MAKE THESE DECISIONS.

>> AND FRED, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF FACULTY, DOES THE SUNY SYSTEM, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE A DIVERSE ENOUGH POPULATION OF PROFESSORS AND STAFF WHO ARE ALSO EDUCATED ENOUGH IN SO CALLED EXPERTS IN THE FIELDS THAT THEY CAN STAY AHEAD OF THE CURVE AND THEY'RE NOT ESSENTIALLY READING ONE CHAPTER AHEAD OF THE STUDENTS?

>> RIGHT.

AND I THINK A COUPLE ISSUES HERE.

FIRST IS THERE IS-- AND I KNOW THE CHANCELLOR IS COMMITTED AS WELL.

THERE IS A DESPERATE NEED TO BRING IN MUCH MORE DIVERSITY IN THE FACULTY AND PROFESSIONAL STAFF IN SUNY FROM VARIOUS BACKGROUNDS AND ALSO IT ENCOURAGES THE DEVELOPMENT OF A MORE DIVERSE STUDENT BODY.

STUDENTS ARE MUCH MORE SUCCESSFUL IF THE FACULTY AND PROFESSIONAL STAFF THEY DEAL WITH LOOK LIKE THEY DO, TO PUT IT SIMPLY.

BUT THERE ALSO IS THE CASE WHERE OUR MEMBERS AS FAWBLGHT AND SO FORTH ARE DOING CUTTING EDGE RESEARCH.

THEY'RE AHEAD OF THE CURVE ENOUGH THAT THEY ARE AWARE OF WHAT FUTURE EMPLOYERS MAY NEED.

BUT I WOULD ALSO POINT OUT IN THE SUNY SYSTEM, BECAUSE OF, AGAIN, 15 YEARS OF UNDERFUNDING, WE HAVE A SITUATION WHERE YOU KNOW, FOUR AMAZINGLY GOOD MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE SUNY SYSTEM, VERY BIG AND VERY DIVERSE POPULATION OF STUDENTS ESPECIALLY AT DOWNSTATE IN BROOKLYN, THOSE INSTITUTIONS ARE SUPPORTED, LIKE IN SYRACUSE, BY UPSTATE MEDICAL, WHICH IS A TEACHING HOSPITAL, PUBLIC TEACHING HOSPITAL.

IT GETS ALMOST NO PUBLIC FUNDING SUPPORT, AND YET IT TREATS PATIENTS AND IS INTEGRAL TO THE TRAINING OF THE NEXT GENERATION OF PHYSICIANS, OF TECH FOLKS IN THE HOSPITALS, NURSES.

THAT'S WHERE THE COMMITMENT HAS TO COME AS WELL.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A RECOGNITION IN THE LEADERSHIP OF THE STATE.

IN OR DEALING WITH THE NURSING SHORTAGE, YOU DON'T SOLVE IT BY CREATING BONUSES FOR NURSES TO COME FROM OUT OF STATE.

HAVE YOU TO TRAIN THEM AND THAT MEANS A PIPELINE PROGRAM, WHICH WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AS A UNION, DIVERSIFY THE WORKFORCE, BUT IT MEANS GETTING AHEAD OF THE CURVE.

IT SIMPLY IS DEMOGRAPHICS.

THERE IS A WAVE OF RETIREMENTS COMING IN THE HEALTHCARE INDUSTRY AND WE ARE NOT PREPARED FOR IT AT ALL AND SO THEREFORE THERE NEEDS TO BE THAT KIND OF INVESTMENT AS WELL.

>> Y WITH, FRED-- WELL, FRED RAISED THE ISSUE OF DIVERSITY OF OPTIONS AMONGST YOUR SCHOOL CHOICES.

THAT MAKES ME WANT TO TURN OUR CONVERSATION TO THE IMPORTANCE OF CHOICE IN THE HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEM.

AND TO DO THAT OUR PRODUCER SUSAN BITTER HAS THIS STORY OUT OF CENTRAL NEW YORK WHERE COLLEGE THAT HAS BEEN EDUCATING STUDENTS FOR NEARLY 200 YEARS, RECENTLY MADE THE HARD CHOICE TO CLOSE ITS DOORS.

>> CAZENOVIA COLLEGE WAS AN INSTITUTION THAT LASTED FOR NEARLY TWO CENTURIES, FOUNDED IN 1824.

DURING THAT TIME REGARDLESS OF ITS IDENTITY IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE HEART BEAT OF THE COMMUNITY KIND OF A HUB FOR CULTURAL, SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC ACTIVITY.

DECISION WAS MADE TO CLOSE BACK IN DECEMBER OF 2022.

WE HAD ENTERED INTO A THREE-YEAR BOND PROCESS IN 2019 AND THE IDEA THEN WAS STRENGTHENING OUR ENROLLMENT STRATEGIES AND PROCESS AND USING OUR UPCOMING BICENTENNIAL TO LEVERAGE FUNDRAISING TO DO A CAMPAIGN AROUND THERE.

AND THEN BE IN A MORE FAVORABLE POSITION COMING OUT OF THAT IN 2022 TO GET LONGER TERM FINANCING, RIGHT?

THAT WAS THE PLAN AND OF COURSE YOU KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT IS THAT WHAT NOBODY FORESAW, WAS A GLOBAL PANDEMIC HITTING WITHIN SIX MONTHS OF US ENTERING INTO THAT AGREEMENT.

WE HAD THE INCREASED COSTS, WE HAD LOWER ENROLLMENT THAN PROJECTED AND THEN MORE THAN ANYTHING, I THINK OF IT IN TERMS OF WE LOST THE TIME TO EXECUTE ON ALL THOSE PLANS THAT I MENTIONED.

SO, YOU KNOW, FAST FORWARD, TO LAST YEAR, WE ARE COMING UP AT THE END OF OUR THREE-YEAR PERIOD, ACTUALLY IN WORSE SHAPE THAN WE HAD GONE INTO IT.

SO DESPITE ALL INDICATIONS THAT WE WERE PROVIDED, THERE WAS NOT AN ENTITY WILLING TO PROVIDE US WITH THE FUNDING.

SO WHEN WOE SAW THAT, THAT'S WHEN THE BOARD REALIZED THEY HAD TO MAKE THE TOUGH DECISION TO CLOSE RATHER THAN MOVING FORWARD IN UNCERTAINTY AND RECRUITING STUDENTS WHEN WE WEREN'T SURE WE WOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE THE FUNDS TO SUPPORT THEM.

>> THERE WERE A NUMBER OF FACTORS IN THE CLOSING.

THE MOST IMMEDIATELY IS THAT THEY HAD TAKEN OUT A BOND, WHICH WAS COMING DUE AND THEY COULDN'T PAY IT.

BUT I THINK THERE ARE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT ARE COMMON TO NOT ONLY CAZENOVIA COLLEGE BUT OTHER COLLEGES, THE KIND OF DEMOGRAPHIC CLIFF PEOPLE TALK ABOUT, WHERE THE NUMBER OF COLLEGE AGE PEOPLE HAS BEEN SHRINKING.

THERE ARE A LOT OF SMALL COLLEGES WHO HAVE CLOSED RECENTLY.

SO WE ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE.

LeMOYNE HAS ALWAYS HAD AN ABIDING RESPECT AND AFFECTION FOR OUR GOOD NEIGHBOR TO THE EAST, CAZENOVIA COLLEGE.

THE PRESSURES ON REVENUE REALLY FORCED THEM TO MAKE AN IMPORTANT DECISION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY COULD CONTINUE TO OFFER HIGH QUALITY CAZENOVIA DEGREES.

THEY ARE THE BEGINNING OF THE MESSAGE REGARDING DESTRESSED INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING THAT WILL, INEVITABLY REDUCE THE NUMBER OF OPTIONS THAT RUNG PEOPLE HAVE AND PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE DEVELOPMENTAL LIFESPAN HAVE, TO ACHIEVE THEIR HIGHER EDUCATION GOALS.

>> WE HAD MANY CHARACTERISTICS OF SCHOOLS THAT HAVE BEEN NOTED AS PROBABLY BEING THE MOST CHALLENGED, BEING SMALL, BEING PRIVATE, BEING IN A SEMIRURAL LOCATION, HAVING A SMALL ENDOWMENT AND BEING VERY TUITION DEPENDENT.

IT IS A VERY TOUGH ENVIRONMENT RIGHT NOW IN THE HIGHER ED LANDSCAPE.

I THINK THAT THE COLLEGES ARE REALLY GOING HAVE TO WORK HARD TO MAKE CLEAR ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF A COLLEGE EDUCATION IN THIS ENVIRONMENT BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF NARRATIVE IN POPULAR MEDIA AROUND IS IT WORTH IT ANYMORE AND IS IT REALLY THAT VALUABLE.

>> FOR MANY JOBS AND GOALS, IT IS NECESSARY TO GET A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE, OBVIOUSLY IF YOU GO TO MEDICAL SCHOOL YOU NEED A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE OR LAW SCHOOL.

AND, YOU KNOW, I WENT TO A SMALL LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGE, ALL MY CHILDREN WENT TO SMALL LIBERAL ARTS COLLEGES.

WE GOT GOOD EDUCATIONS AND WE ENJOYED IT AND WE, YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A VERY GOOD EXPERIENCES IN MANY, MANY WAYS LIVING WITH A BUNCH OF PEOPLE YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO GET ALONG WITH, ALL THE EXTRACURRICULAR STUFF, IT'S NOT NECESSARY FOR EVERYBODY, BUT IT'S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR MANY KINDS OF PEOPLE.

>> THE RULE OF HIGHER EDUCATION IN THE MODERN EDUCATION IS TO BE NIMBLE.

WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY IN PRODUCING GREAT CITIZENS MOVING FORWARD.

A GOOD CITIZEN STILL NEEDS TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT HISTORY, RIGHT?

AND THE ABILITY TO COMMUNICATE EVEN IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA ERA.

ALL OF THOSE SKILLS ARE JUST CRUCIAL TO BE A SUCCESSFUL PERSON IN THE 21st CENTURY.

AS THE ECONOMY CONTINUES TO EVOLVE, MORPH, PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO LEARN HOW TO LEARN AND TO GAIN NEW SKILLS.

>> AND IT'S CHALLENGING TO PURSUE THE LATEST-- TO PUT ALL OF YOUR EGGS TRAINING FOR A SPECIFIC JOB IN FRONT OF YOU RIGHT NOW THAT MAY NOT BE THERE IN 10 YEARS.

I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE MORE PEOPLE CHANGING JOBS MORE FREQUENTLY IN THE FUTURE.

SO I THINK HAVING THAT SOLID FOUNDATIONAL BASE IS GOING TO SERVE FOLKS WELL IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO PIVOT FROM ONE AREA TO ANOTHER.

>> I THINK COLLEGES NEED TO BE NIMBLE, I WOULD SAY, IN THINKING ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT IS USEFUL FOR COLLEGE-AGE PEOPLE OR NOT COLLEGE AGED PEOPLE.

>> WHEN CAZENOVIA ANNOUNCED IT WAS CLOSING, IT WAS CLEAR TO US WE NEEDED TO BE MORE ASSERTIVE, MORE ENTREPRENEURIAL, DIG DOWN EVEN DEEPER INTO THE PARTNERSHIPS THROUGHOUT THE ECONOMIC SECTORS, LISTENING CAREFULLY TO THE NEEDS OF AN EMERGING, I INVOLVING ECONOMY-- EVOLVING ECONOMY AND WHAT BUSINESS SAY THEY NEED IN THE NEXT GENERATION OF TALENT.

IF WE OPERATE IN ISOLATION OF THOSE ECONOMIC REALITIES, WE WILL NOT FAIR WELL.

>> COLLEGES NEED TO BE REALLY NIMBLE RIGHT NOW.

NEED TO BE ABLE TO MOVE QUICKLY IN RESPONSE TO THE CHALLENGES THEY'RE FACING.

THE REGULATORY ENVIRONMENT HABIT ALWAYS BEEN CONDEUCE CONDUCIVE FOR MAKING QUICK PIVOTS.

AND THIS IS THE STATE, THIS IS ALSO OTHER REGULATORY AGENCIES INCLUDING ACCREDITING BODIES, IT CAN BE CHALLENGING AND CUMBERSOME AND TIME CONSUMING TO MAKE CHANGES AT A COLLEGE, TO ADD ACADEMIC PROGRAMS, TO MODIFY YOUR CHARTER TO ALLOW YOU TO OFFER GRADUATE PROGRAMS, TO EXPLORE CREATIVE TYPES OF PARTNERSHIPS WITH OTHER INSTITUTIONS.

THOSE REQUIRE AN APPROVAL AND REVIEW PROCESS BY ACCREDITORS AND THE STATE AND WE JUST DON'T HAVE A LOT OF TIME.

>> THIS IS A TOUGH TIME.

WE ARE AT AN INFLECTION POINT AND I FULLY EXPECT THAT OTHER INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING WILL HAVE TO MAKE SIMILAR HARD DECISIONS JUST AS CAZENOVIA COLLEGE DID.

THE BUSINESS MODEL REALLY IS MATURE AND IT'S REACHED ITS USEFUL END SO TO SPEAK.

CORPORATIONS NEED TO HELP HIGHER EDUCATION IN ORDER TO PRODUCE THE KINDS OF WORKERS, THE TALENT THAT THEY NEED.

AND I THINK THAT IF INSTITUTIONS PARTNER IN SMART WAYS, WITH BOTH THE GOVERNMENT AND THE CORPORATE SECTOR, AND INCLUDING ALL SECTORS OF THE ECONOMY, WE CAN FIND A BUSINESS MODEL THAT WORKS NOT JUST FOR INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING, BUT FOR FAMILIES AS WELL.

AND THAT'S ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL.

AND I'M HOPING THAT THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, GOVERNMENT ENTITIES, LISTEN CAREFULLY TO WHAT WE ARE SAYING IN HIGHER EDUCATION AND LET'S WORK TOGETHER TO GET THIS DONE ON BEHALF OF FAMILIES.

>> SO, FRED, BASED ON THAT STORY, HOW CONCERNED SHOULD PEOPLE BE ABOUT THE POSSIBLE SHRINKING OF AVAILABLE OPTIONS FOR STUDENTS, AS WELL AS FACULTY, TO TEACH AT?

IS THIS A PROBLEM OR ARE WE JUST SEEING THE RIGHT SIZING OF HIGHER EDUCATION?

>> IT IS A PROBLEM AND IT IS A CONCERN.

AND I THINK THAT CERTAINLY THE DEMOGRAPHIC TRENDS POINT TO A CERTAIN INEVITABILITY, BUT I THINK WHAT, TO ME, THE CORE ISSUE, AGAIN, WHETHER IT'S PRIVATE INSTITUTIONS OR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS, IS SOCIAL INVESTMENT.

AND, YES, IT MEANS FINANCIAL INVESTMENT.

IF IT IS A PUBLIC GOOD, WHETHER IN THE PRIVATE INSTITUTION OR PUBLIC, THERE NEEDS TO BE THAT FUNDING.

AND HERE'S WHY.

AS MUCH AS THE DEMOGRAPHIC CLIFF AS WAS REFERRED TO EXISTS, THERE IS ALSO ANOTHER CLIFF, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT.

50 TO 60% OF AFRICAN-AMERICAN, LATINO AND THE RATE IS EVEN HIGHER FOR INDIGENOUS GRADUATES OF HIGH SCHOOL, NEVER EVEN HIVE THIS IS NATIONALLY, NEVER EVEN CONSIDER GOING TO COLLEGE.

THEY DON'T SEE IT AS PART OF THEIR FUTURE.

THEY SEE IT AS SOMETHING A: THEY CAN'T AFFORD OR B: THEY WON'T FIT IN AND YOU HAVE THAT KIND OF HUGE POPULATION THAT CAN BE REACHED.

BUT IT DEMANDS RESOURCES.

IT DEMANDS VERY GOOD RECRUITMENT STRATEGIES.

AND THEN RETENTION STRATEGIES.

SUNY HAS AN AMAZINGLY SUCCESSFUL PROGRAM, THE EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY PROGRAM.

IT'S ALWAYS UNDERFUNDED.

STUDENTS WHO COME IN FROM UNDERRESOURCED COMMUNITIES AND ARE UNDER PREPARED GRADUATE AT HIGHER RATES THAN THE NATIONAL GRADUATION RATE.

THESE ARE STUDENTS WHO SHOULDN'T SUCCEED.

THEY'RE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY AND THEY DO SUCCEED.

THOSE ARE THE KIND OF PROGRAMS WE NEED, PERHAPS AND MAYBE I'M BEING IDEALISTIC, BUT TO GET BEYOND THE DEMOGRAPHIC CLIFF BY GETTING THOSE STUDENTS IN WHO NEED TO BE IN IF WE ARE GOING TO BE A MULTICULTURAL, MULTIRACIAL SOCIETY.

>> DAVE, DO YOU THINK IT MAKES SENSE TO HAVE THE WIDE VARIETY OF OPTIONS WE HAVE NOW?

OR DO WE NEED TO HAVE A SMALLER MORE, TO USE THE BUZZ WORD, NIMBLE SELECTION OF COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITIES, MAYBE EVEN MORE SPECIALIZED COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES OPPOSED TO HAVING A WHOLE BUNCH OFFERING SOME OF THE SAME DEGREES?

>> I THINK, AS FRED SAID, YOU KNOW, I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE DEMOGRAPHICS, THE AFRICAN-AMERICAN, LATINO, INDIGENOUS POPULATION, THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE OPPORTUNITY.

WHEN I WENT TO UTICA COLLEGE OR SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, I WAS A HIGHER EDUCATION OPPORTUNITY STUDENT.

I GOT IN BECAUSE THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WERE THERE.

SO I'M NOT SURE IF I WANT TO SEE NECESSARILY A CHANGING IN TERMS OF SHRINKING.

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MAYBE IS A BETTER ORGANIZATION, A BETTER STRUCTURE.

THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH SUNY IS THAT I HAVE BEEN A TRUSTEE AT MOHAWK VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE FOR 46 YEARS AND OVER THOSE 46 YEARS, I CAN HONESTLY SAY I HAVE NEVER SEEN THE COMMITMENT ON THE PART OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK AND THE SUNY BOARD OF TRUSTEES TO TAKE A LOOK AT MAYBE DOING A MAJOR REORGANIZATION.

THE STRUCTURE THAT EXISTS IN SUNY IS THE STRUCTURE THAT WAS IN PLACE WHEN I WENT ON THE BOARD IN '77 AND SO MANY THINGS HAVE CHANGED IN HIGHER EDUCATION THAT MAYBE, NOT NECESSARILY CLOSING, BUT IF SUNY DOESN'T DO SOMETHING, I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A TOTAL UPHEAVAL IN THE 64 CAMPUS SYSTEM.

>> HOW ABOUT ON THE PRIVATE SIDE, CHRIS?

ARE THE PRIVATE NON-PROFIT INSTITUTIONS WILLING TO KILL THEIR SACRED COWS?

>> I WOULDN'T SAY THAT TO BE CERTAIN.

I KNOW THAT FOR SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY STUDENTS THAT HEOP PROGRAM IS INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

BRINGING SUMMER START STUDENTS FROM URBAN AREAS AND LOWER SOBER BELOW ECONOMIC AREAS AND BRINGING THEM UP THE SUMMER BEFORE TO GET THE ACADEMIC TRAINING THEY NEED TO BE SUCCESS SFL IN THEIR FIRST YEAR OF COLLEGE.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MAJOR PROGRAMS WE HAVE AT SYRACUSE.

SO FOR US TO BRING MORE DIVERSITY TO CAMPUS IS ALSO GOING TO BE IMPORTANT TO FEEDING INTO EMPLOYERS, RIGHT?

IF WE ARE HAVING LESS DIVERSE STUDENTS COME INTO THE CLASSROOMS AT WHATEVER INSTITUTION WE ARE AT, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR DIVERSITY IN THE WORKFORCE FIVE, 10, 15, 20 YEARS FROM NOW?

THAT'S PROBLEMATIC.

WE DON'T HAVE THE DATA YET.

BUT WE CAN FORESEE A SHRINKING DIVERSE WORKFORCE IN, ESPECIALLY IN WHITE COLLAR JOBS AND, YOU KNOW, HIGHER MORE EVOLVED INDUSTRIES OUT THERE.

>> WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE ACCESS TO HIGHER EDUCATION, HOW IMPORTANT IS IT THAT COLLEGE ADMISSIONS POLICIES PROMOTE EQUITY AMONGST THEIR APPLICANTS?

>> I THINK IT'S EXTREMELY IMPORTANT FOR THAT TO BE A MAJOR TOPIC OF DISCUSSION WHEN IT COMES TO COLLEGE ADMISSIONS.

I THINK EVEN BEFORE THAT, WE HAVE TO CONSIDER WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE HIGH SCHOOLS AS WELL.

THERE ARE PROGRAMS LIKE THE SCIENCE TECHNOLOGY ENTRY PROGRAM AND THESE KINDS OF PROGRAMS THAT ARE VERY SIMILAR TO HEOP AND EOP THAT ARE IN PRIVATE AND PUBLIC SCHOOLS LIKE SUNY, THEY NEED FUNDING AS WELL.

I THINK FUNDING IS SO EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT WE TALK ABOUT ENOUGH WHEN IT COMES TO HIGHER EDUCATION AND WHO HAS ACCESS TO WHAT FUNDING AND WHERE THEY'RE ABLE TO GO GET THAT FUNDING FROM.

I, MYSELF, WAS A STEP STUDENT, WHICH IS THE SCIENCE TECHNOLOGY ENTRY PROGRAM AND THAT'S HOW I WAS ABLE TO LEARN ABOUT COLLEGES.

COLLEGE WASN'T SOMETHING I WAS CONSIDERING WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL AS A FRESHMAN.

YOU KNOW, IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS LIKE A FAR OFF DREAM, ESPECIALLY WITH BACKGROUND I HAVE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN IT COMES TO MONEY, WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT COLLEGES YOU HAVE ACCESS TO, WHETHER YOU ARE ABLE TO GET INTO THOSE COLLEGES, WHETHER YOU ARE ABLE TO GET THROUGH THOSE COLLEGES, IT'S SOMETHING THAT IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE COLLEGE ADMISSIONS AND WHO SITS AT THE TABLE WHEN THEY'RE DISCUSSING WHO GETS ADMITTED AND THEN EVENTUALLY, WHO IS ADMITTED, THAT IS SO IMPORTANT.

AND IF YOU ARE NOT CONSIDERING STUDENTS WHO COME FROM A MULTICULTURAL, MULTIRACIAL BACKGROUND, WHAT ARE WE TELLING THE REST OF THE WORLD AS WELL, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE WORLD THAT WE LIVE IN AND I'M GOING TO MENTION TIKTOK THAT HAS OPENED UP A HUGE DOOR TO WHO WE ARE CONNECTED TO.

WE ARE CONNECTED TO PEOPLE IN JAPAN, PEOPLE IN AFRICA, AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT PLACES, WHICH MEANS THAT THE DOORS ARE OPEN FOR JOB OPPORTUNITIES IN ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT PLACES.

AND IF WE ARE NOT ADMITTING STUDENTS INTO OUR COLLEGES WHO ARE COMING FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS, WHAT IS THAT TELLING THE REST OF THE WORLD ABOUT WHO WE VALUE AS EMPLOYERS AND EMPLOYEES AND ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.

>> SHOULD THOSE FACTORS OF SAY SOCIOECONOMIC CONDITIONS BE MORE HEAVILY WEIGHTED THAN HOW A STUDENT MIGHT SEEM IN TERMS OF THEIR ABILITY TO GRADUATE SAY IN FOUR YEARS.

SHOULD COLLEGE ADMISSION OFFICERS BE LOOKING FOR THE DIAMONDS IN THE ROUGH OR SHOULD THEY BE TRYING TO PICK UP THE CLEAR CUT DIAMONDS SITTING THERE WAITING TO BE GRABBED?

HOW DO YOU DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN THE TWO?

>> I THINK THE DIAMONDS IN THE ROUGH ARE EXACTLY WHO WE SHOULD BE LOOKING FOR TBAWS THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO COME WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN THEIR LIFE THAT ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONES, THE DIAMONDS WHO ARE ALREADY CUT.

HAVE YOU PEOPLE COMING FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE WHO HAVE SEEN ALL KIND OF DIFFICULTIES AND HARDSHIPS AND CHALLENGES AND IF THEY WERE ABLE TO OVERCOME ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT CHALLENGES AND HARDSHIPS AND ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THINGS, THEN THAT TELLS YOU THE RESILIENCY OF THE HUMAN BEING YOU ARE ADMITTING INTO YOUR SYSTEM.

AND EVENTUALLY THE KIND OF PERSON THAT'S GOING TO COME OUT IS AN EVEN MORE RESILIENT PERSON WHO IS GOING TO JOIN A WORKFORCE THAT IS GOING TO BE WELL MET.

>> WELL CHRIS, TO WHAT DEGREE, IF ANY, SHOULD COST BE A BARRIER TO ENTRY?

SHOULD STUDENTS AND THEIR FAMILIES BE REQUIRED TO MAKE SOME SORT OF ZACHARY FOO IS TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE INVESTED IN THIS PART OF THEIR LIFE JOURNEY OR SHOULD IT BE SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN ENTER WITHOUT POTENTIALLY HAVING TO MAKE ANY SACRIFICES?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M SOMEONE WHO IS STILL PAYING BACK STUDENT LOANS AT 40 YEARS OLD AND AFTER GETTING A MASTERS DEGREE FROM SYRACUSE, I'M STILL PAYING THE LOANS BACK.

OF COURSE I ENJOYED AT THE TIME I WAS ABLE TO PAY FOR MY HOUSING AND HAVE A MEAL AND HAVE A VEHICLE TO GET ME TO AN INTERNSHIP.

THOSE WERE SACRIFICES THAT WERE IMPORTANT TO ME BUT I'M PAYING THOSE BACK NOW, RIGHT AT A INTEREST RATE THAT IS STILL VERY HIGH.

AND SO IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SAY THAT IT SHOULD JUST BE FREE ACROSS THE BOARD.

BUT I TRULY THINK THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAS AN ONLY OBLIGATION TO STEP IN AND PROVIDE SUBSIDIES AND CONTINUE TO PROVIDE ROBUST FINANCIAL AID TO STUDENTS.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE COLLEGE BE TOTALLY FREE.

BUT THE TRUTH IS, THERE ARE FAMILIES OUT THERE THAT CAN SACRIFICE AND CAN AFFORD IT.

>> IS IT A SACRIFICE IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT?

I GUESS IF YOUR FAMILY IS WELL OFF, IS IT A SACRIFICE TO PONY UP THAT MONEY IF THEY REALLY DON'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT?

>> WELL NOW WE ARE ARGUING ABOUT SEMANTICS.

YOU KNOW, YES IT'S A SACRIFICE WHEN THEY'RE PUTTING MONEY AWAY IN A 529 EVERY MONTH AND THEY CAN'T, YOU KNOW, THEY CAN'T ENJOY, I GUESS ALL THE LUXURIES THAT THEY WANT.

>> I GUESS THAT TYPE OF COMMITMENT IS SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE PREPARED TO MAKE IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE SAYING.

>> YES.

YOU GOT ME.

>> DAVE, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

SHOULD THERE BE A BARRIER TO ENTRY IN TERMS OF COST?

>> AS CHANCELLOR KING SAID, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE FREE COMMUNITY COLLEGE FOR ALL.

BUT THAT'S NOT-- WE ARE NOT THERE YET.

BUT IN MY PARTICULAR CASE, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE I WAS ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE TO GET MY DEGREES, MY TWO DAUGHTERS WERE ABLE TO GO TO COLLEGE.

ONE AT BUFF STATE THE OTHER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO.

GO THE THEIR BACHELORS.

MY OLDEST DAUGHTER WENT ON TO BUFF STATE TO GET HER MASTERS.

MY YOUNGER DAUGHTER WENT TO SUNY POLY AND GOT HER MASTERS.

NOW THEY HAVE FIVE BOYS AND THE GOAL IS FOR ALL OF THEM TO GO TO COLLEGE.

ONE RIGHT NOW IS AT NYU AND THE OTHER IS AT SYRACUSE.

SO THERE IS A DOMINO EFFECT THAT STARTED WITH ME.

SO FOR MY PARTICULAR POSITION, IS THAT AS IS THE CASE, YOU CAN START, THEN YOU CAN SEE THE GROWTH IN TERMS OF OPENING DOORS, ESPECIALLY FOR MINORITIES, WHO HAVE NOT HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO GET A HIGHER EDUCATION.

>> SO HOW MANY COLLEGE AND UNIVERSITY T-SHIRTS DO YOU OWN NOW?

>> I HAVE QUITE A FEW AND QUITE A LOT OF COFFEE MUGS THAT GO WITH THE T-SHIRTS.

>> ONE THING I DO WANT TO THINK ABOUT OR KIND OF PUT OUT THERE IS IF-- THESE ARE MADE UP NUMBERS OBVIOUSLY.

BUT IF 90% OF THE JOBS THAT ARE OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IN THE WORLD ARE REQUIRING COLLEGE DEGREES, RIGHT?

THAT MEANS ONLY IF YOU HAVE A COLLEGE DEGREE CAN YOU EVEN APPLY FOR THESE JOBS.

AND I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.

IF SOMETHING IS GOING TO BE REQUIRED, SHOULDN'T THE GOVERNMENT OR AT THE VERY LEAST, THE PEOPLE OF THE GOVERNMENT HAVE SOMETHING TO KIND OF CONTRIBUTE TO WHAT IS REQUIRED IF SOMETHING IS SO BIG OF A REQUIREMENT?

>> I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT BUT I THINK RIGHT NOW THERE IS A SERIOUS DISCUSSION IN THIS COUNTRY ABOUT THE VALUE OF HIGHER EDUCATION.

FOR THE FIRST TIME AMERICANS ARE SAYING DO WE REALLY NEED TO SEND OUR CHILDREN TO COLLEGE?

WHAT IS THE VALUE?

WHAT ARE THEY GETTING OUT OF IT?

I THINK THAT'S A DEBATE THAT'S AFFECTING OUR ABILITY TO GIVE RESOURCES, ESPECIALLY AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

>> AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE COST THAT IS PAID BY LINKING-- AND IT IS CERTAINLY IMPORTANT TO HAVE DEGREES THAT CAN BE CONNECTED TO FUTURE EMPLOYMENT.

BUT I THINK ONCE WE REDUCE HIGHER EDUCATION TO BE JUST A CONNECTION TO A JOB, THEN IT BECOMES AN ECONOMIC CALCULATION.

IS IT WORTH FOUR YEARS AND BUILDING UP A DEBT?

IT IS, IT HAS TO BE VALUED AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE GET THERE-- TO A POINT WHERE THE EDUCATION IS VALUED IN AND OF ITSELF.

THEN WE ALSO AVOID THE SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE SEEN IN MY HOME CAMPUS AT COBLESKILL, THE LIBERAL ARTS.

I'M A POLITICAL SCIENTIST.

OUR COURSES ARE NOT DEEMED AS IMPORTANT QUOTE UNQUOTE BY ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE WHERE THE RESOURCES NEED TO GO ARE THE TECH PROGRAMS WHERE THE STUDENTS ARE GOING TO BE GRADUATING.

LET'S REDUCE THE NUMBER OF CREDITS IN LIBERAL ARTS.

IT SHOULD BE THE OPPOSITE BECAUSE EMPLOYERS ARE LOOKING FOR WELL ROUNDED INDIVIDUALS.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHERE THE CONNECTION HAS TO BE MADE, THAT MAKES IT AN INVESTMENT.

THAT'S A SOCIETY WIDE CONVERSATION.

I DON'T KNOW IF WE ARE WILLING TO MAKE THAT.

>> DO THEY HAVE TO GO TO COLLEGE TO BECOME WELL ROUNDED INDIVIDUALS?

CAN THEY PICK UP BOOKS AT A LOCAL LIBRARY AND READ A TIME MAGAZINE TO BE THE CRITICAL THINKERS WE HOPE THEY EMERGE FROM THE COBLESKILL OR FOUR-YEAR EXPERIENCE?

>> I THINK WHAT IS IMPORTANT ABOUT COLLEGE IS THAT THERE IS THE TRAINING SO THAT THEN IT'S THE GUIDANCE.

THE WAY I USED TO EXPLAIN IT TO MY STUDENTS WHEN I WAS TEACHING FULL TIME WAS I SIMPLY ASK QUESTIONS AND PROVIDE YOU THE MEANS BY WHICH YOU DO THE SEARCH UNDERSTAND IT'S A SEARCH FOR WISDOM.

PURSUE THAT GOAL.

LEARN WHAT YOU CAN AND I'LL GUIDE YOU.

AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE IN OUR SOCIETY DEPEND ON WHATEVER IS ON THEIR PHONE, WHATEVER IS INSTANTANEOUS, VERY BRIEF NEWS THEY MIGHT GET.

THINK SPENDING THE TIME TO SERIOUS SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT THE GENERAL TERM ISSUES, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT CAN UNIQUELY HAPPEN AT A COLLEGE CAMPUS.

I'M SPEAKING LIKE SOMEONE FROM THE LAST CENTURY, WHICH IS WHEN I WAS BORN NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT, BUT THE REALITY IS, I BELIEVE STRONGLY YOU NEED THAT SETTING AND THAT'S WHY I FEEL THAT WHEN I HEAR COLLEGE AGED STUDENTS, I'M THINKING ABOUT SOMEONE FROM 14-94.

EVERYONE SHOULD SEE THE COLLEGE IN THEIR COMMUNITY AS SOMETHING THAT IS THEIRS AS WELL, TO EXPLORE, TO GO AND TAKE COURSES OR TO TAKE THEM ONLINE.

I THINK SUNY SHOULD OFFER ONE COURSE ON LINE FREE EVERY THREE YEARS TO SOMEONE WHO LIVES IN THE COMMUNITY AT A NEARBY COLLEGE SO THEY CAN EXPERIENCE THAT.

I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY VALUABLE.

>> YOU HAVE 45 SECONDS.

>> I WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE IMPORTANCE OF THAT SETTING.

I THINK THE SETTING, THE COLLEGE SETTING IS SO INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE YOU HAVE PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

I HAVE MET PEOPLE WHO HAVE HAVE NEVER MET SOMEBODY WHO LOOKS LIKE ME, ME AS A MUSLIM PERSON OR ME AS A BLACK PERSON.

HAVING THE SPACE, THE SETTING TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO THE DIFFERENT PEOPLE.

YOU DEVELOP SKILLS YOU OTHERWISE WOULDN'T GET IF YOU GO TO A LIBRARY AND PICK UP A BOOK TO READ AND I THINK THAT'S SO INCR EDIBLE FOR THE LIFE YOU ARE GOING TO LEAD FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

>> WE HAVE ABOUT 30 SECONDS LEFT AND DAVE, I JUST WANT TO COME BACK TO YOU REFLEXZ IN HIGHER EDUCATION WHERE IT'S TRENDING.

ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC OR PESSIMISTIC.

THERE IS A LOT TO TAKE AWAY.

>> IN BETWEEN.

I SEE GREAT OPPORTUNITIES AND MAJOR CHALLENGES.

THE DISCUSSION ABOUT CAZENOVIA CLOSING I THINK IS A SHOCK BUT IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SMALLER COLLEGES THAT ARE CLOSING.

THE MAIN COMMUNITY COLLEGE SYSTEM IN VERMONT, THEY'RE REORGANIZING.

A LOT OF UPHEAVAL IN HIGHER ED.

>> I THINK WE CAN FIGURE OUT A LOT OF THIS AT THIS TABLE.

WE DON'T HAVE TIME TO BANG OUT THE ANSWERS TODAY.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE TODAY.

MY THANKS TO OUR GUESTS, FRED KOWALL, PRESIDENT OF UNITED UNIVERSITY PROFESSIONS - SHUKRI MOHAMED, A MASTER'S STUDENT AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY - DAVID MATHIS, A TRUSTEE WITH THE MOHAWK VALLEY COMMUNITY COLLEGE - AND CHRISTOPHER PERRELLO, AN ASSISTANT TEACHING PROFESSOR AT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

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