COMING UP, A CRISIS IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE PAY MUCH OF THEIR INCOME TO PUT A ROOF OVER THEIR HEAD.

WHAT CAN BE DONE TO BRING THE COST DOWN SO EVERYONE HAS THE HOME THEY NEED?

WE'LL TAKE UP THAT QUESTION NEXT, ON CONNECT NEW YORK.

♪ ♪ WELCOME TO CONNECT NY.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

EVEN BEFORE ANYONE HEARD OF COVID, NEW YORK AND THE NATION WERE IN THE GRIP OF A CRISIS IN AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

SIMPLY PUT, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE PAY MUCH OF THEIR INCOME ON HOUSING, WHETHER THEY RENT OR OWN THEIR HOME.

THE PANDEMIC MADE IT WORSE, WITH TENANTS UNABLE TO PAY THEIR RENT, AND LANDLORDS STRUGGLING TO PAY THEIR BILLS.

HOW COME IT'S SO HARD TO BUILD MORE AFFORDABLE APARTMENTS?

WHY ARE SMALLER, STARTER HOMES HARD TO COME BY.

WHAT CAN LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO TO ENCOURAGE CONSTRUCTION OF MORE AFFORDABLE HOMES AND APARTMENTS?

WE'LL TAKE UP THOSE QUESTIONS AND MORE WITH OUR GUESTS •.

SALLY SANTANGELO, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF CNY FAIR HOUSING REBECCA GARRARD, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR AT CITIZEN ACTION OF NEW YORK AND COLTON KELLS, TENANTS ADOCACY FELLOW AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY THE ISSUE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING ISN'T LIMITED TO RENTERS, IT'S NOT LIMITED TO NEW YORK CITY, IT'S NOT EVEN LIMITED TO NEW YORK STATE.

AND IT'S CERTAINLY NOT SIMPLY AN ISSUE THAT'S COME UP BECAUSE OF THE COVID PANDEMIC.

I'D LIKE TO GET A SENSE OF SCALE •TO DEFINE THE ISSUE SOMEWHAT.

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THAT DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO DECENT, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, IN OUR STATE AND EVEN NATIONWIDE?

REBECCA IS >> I THINK I WANT TO START BY AFFIRMING WHAT YOU SAID, WHICH IS THIS IS A PRE-PANDEMIC ISSUE, AND SO A LOT OF THE CONVERSATION AROUND THIS TOPIC HAS REALLY BEEN CENTERED IN THE COVID-RELATED AFFORDABILITY CRISIS THAT IS THE RESULT OF LOSS OF JOBS AND THE ECONOMIC DEVASTATION AROUND THE PANDEMIC.

BUT THIS IS ABSOLUTELY A CRISIS THAT WAS ONLY EXACERBATED BY THE PANDEMIC AND EXISTED BEFORE THAT.

SO I THINK THERE IS THAT REALLY FAMOUS STUDY THAT SHOWED THAT THERE IS NOWHERE IN THE COUNTRY WHERE YOU CAN WORK FULL TIME AT A MINIMUM WAGE JOB AND AFFORD YOUR HOUSING, ANYWHERE.

NOWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.

>> FULL TIME 40-HOUR A WEEK AT WHATEVER IT IS, $12 AN HOUR.

>> EXACTLY.

>> SO WE KNOW THAT IN NEW YORK, FOR A TENANT STATISTIC, WE HAVE MILLIONS OF RENTERS; HALF OF WHOM ARE RENT BURDENED.

THIS IS PRE-PANDEMIC STATISTICS, WHICH USES THE GENERALLY ACCEPTED METRIC THAT YOU SHOULD NOT PAY MORE THAN 30% OF YOUR INCOME IN HOUSING COSTS AND A QUARTER OF WHOM ARE SEVERELY REPRESENT BURDENED, WHICH MEANS THEY'RE PAYING MORE THAN 50% OF THEIR INCOME IN HOUSING COSTS.

SO, YOU KNOW, TO CONFIRM, RIGHT, THE CRISIS, WE HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE EVERY DAY PRE-PANDEMIC, WHO WERE ONE PAYCHECK AWAY FROM DISPLACEMENT, FROM EVICTION, WHO ARE CHOOSING EVERY DAY BETWEEN FEEDING THEIR FAMILIES AND KEEPING A ROOF OVER THEIR HEADS.

>> WE'VE OFTEN HEARD THAT THE STATEMENT OR THE STATISTIC $400.

A HUGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE, IF THEY HAD SOMETHING COME UP WHERE THEY NEEDED $400, DIDN'T HAVE IT.

BUT YOU SAID MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

ONE MILLION, FIVE MILLION?

DO WE KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE THIS IS AFFECTING?

>> WE KNOW RIGHT NOW THAT WE HAVE APPROXIMATELY 2.5 MILLION PEOPLE THAT ARE BEHIND ON THEIR RENT FOR COVID, RIGHT?

WE KNOW THAT THERE ARE APPROXIMATELY 60s-- SIX MILLION RENTERS IN NEW YORK.

SO IF YOU WANT TO EXTRAPOLATE THOSE NUMBERS, WE HAVE ANYWHERE BETWEEN 2 AND 4 MILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT, WHO ARE COST BURDENED.

>> IN NEW YORK STATE.

>> IN NEW YORK STATE, EXACTLY.

AND AGAIN TO GO TO THE FIRST METRIC, RIGHT?

WE HAVE NO LOW INCOME PERSON WHO IS HOUSING STABLE AND ABLE TO AFFORD THEIR RENT, GIVEN THAT METRIC WE TALKED ABOUT WITH WORKING FULL TIME IN A MINIMUM WAGE JOB.

>> NOW, SALLY, ONE MIGHT ASSUME THAT THERE COULD BE A SHORTAGE OF NEW YORK CITY, BUT-- AND WE WILL GET TO NEW YORK, BUT WHAT ABOUT A LESS DENSE CITY LIKE SYRACUSE, ALBANY, UTICA, ROCHESTER.

HOW COME WE HAVE A PROBLEM IN THOSE CITIES?

>> WELL, ONE OF THE REAL ISSUES THAT WE FACE IN UPSTATE CITIES AND EVEN IN RURAL AREAS, ALSO ACROSS UPSTATE IS REALLY BEEN DECADES OF DISINVESTMENT IN HOUSING, A REALLY HOUSING QUALITY CRISIS SO IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT AFFORDABILITY BUT WE HAVEN'T MAINTAINED PROPERTIES, LAX CODE ENFORCEMENT, IN CITIES ACROSS UPSTATE AND SOMETIMES EVEN WORSE IN RURAL AREAS.

SO WE HAVE SUFFERED FROM REALLY THE HOUSING QUALITY DETERIORATING, WHICH HAS MADE HOMES UNLIVABLE.

SO WE HAVE OFTEN TIMES VACANT PROPERTIES, BUT THEY NEED TO BE TORN DOWN.

THEY NEED TO BE DEMOLISHED BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT SUITABLE FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE IN.

SO WE HAVEN'T ADEQUATELY INVESTED IN QUALITY AFFORDABLE HOUSING ANYWHERE IN NEW YORK STATE OR IN THE COUNTRY, FRANKLY.

WE STOPPED INVESTING IN PUBLIC HOUSE HOUSING.

WE HAVEN'T ADEQUATELY MAINTAINED PUBLIC HOUSING OR BUILT NEW PUBLIC HOUSING TO PROVIDE OPTIONS FOR PEOPLE AT THE LOWEST INCOME LEVELS.

AND SO IT IMPACTS EVERYBODY IN EVERY AREA.

>> AND I KNOW IN SYRACUSE, AND SOME OTHER UPSTATE CITIES, YOU DIDN'T LENGS LEAD BUT THAT'S ANOTHER PART OF THE ISSUE.

A LOT OF HOMES THAT DO EXIST HAVE PIPING THAT MAYBE YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN THAT HOME.

>> THAT IS A HUGE ISSUE.

AGAIN, A CRISIS OF UPKEEP AND INVESTMENT AND A RESULT OF UPKEEP, LACK OF UPKEEP AND INVESTMENT.

AND, YOU KNOW, LEAD AND OTHER HABITABILITY ISSUES THAT IMPACT CHILDREN AND FAMILIES WITH CHILDREN.

AND THAT IS-- AND WE HAVE A LOT OF, IN LARGE PART, BECAUSE OF OUR OLDER HOUSING STOCK, MOST OF THE HOUSING STOCK IN UPSTATE CITIES IS BUILT LONG PRIOR TO WHEN LEAD ORDINANCES OR LED REQUIREMENTS.

MOST OF OUR HOUSING STOCK IS PRE-1939, SO THAT HOUSING COMES WITH A LOT OF ENVIRONMENTAL HAZARDS THAT PEOPLE CONTINUE TO BE IMPACTED BY.

>> SO IF YOU FLIP THAT AROUND, THEN WHAT HAPPENS IS THOSE HOMES, THERE ARE SO MANY THAT ARE SUBSTANDARD, THE ONES THAT ARE STANDARD COST THAT MUCH MORE.

>> AND ONE OF THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, ISSUES WITH COVID IS WE ARE DOING LESS LEAD TESTING AND LESS LEAD REMEDIATION, SO PEOPLE , CHILDREN ARE NOT GETTING AS MUCH, NOT AS LIKELY TO VISIT THEIR PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR AND HAVE THEIR LEAD TESTS PERFORMED.

THE INSPECTION PROCESSES HAVE BEEN, YOU KNOW, STALLED IF NOT STOPPED IN MANY COMMUNITIES.

SO THE WORK TO ADDRESS LEAD HAS, YOU KNOW, REALLY SLOWED DURING COVID AND WE ARE, YOU KNOW, A CRISIS THAT I THINK WE HAD SOME MOMENTUM TOWARD ADDRESSING PRE-COVID IS MUCH WORSE.

>> I WANT TO BRING COLTON INTO THE CONVERSATION.

STRIKES ME THAT IN MANY WAYS, THE LACK OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS A POLICY CHOICE.

I MEAN IS IT?

IS THAT TOO HARSH TO PUT IT THAT WAY?

WHY ARE WE, THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IN THE 21st CENTURY, MAKING THAT CHOICE?

I.

>> I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT.

THERE IS MONEY.

IT IS A POLICY CHOICE.

WE HAVE MONEY AND HAVE A CHOICE TO YOU HOW TO SPEND IT AND HAVE NOT SPENT IT ON HOUSING.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT AS A FOREFRONT OF HOW WE ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM GOING FORWARD, OBVIOUSLY THE CRISIS OF HAVING REPRESENT-- RENTERS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT OF WORK SO LONG NOT BE ABLE TO PAY RENT AND LANDLORDS NOT RECEIVING PAYMENTS, WE HAVE THIS CRISIS RIGHT NOW BUT GOING FORWARD WE'LL NEED TO ADDRESS THE SYSTEMIC ISSUES.

>> AND WE WILL, IN THIS HOUR, GET TO THE COVID PART OF THIS CONVERSATION, BUT AS YOU SAID, THIS PREDATES COVID.

SO I'M WONDERING, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE POLICIES, PERHAPS, THAT WE HAVE THAT HAVE EXACERBATED THE PROBLEM OR LED TO SOME OF THE SHORTAGES OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING?

IS THERE SOMETHING YOU CAN SAY THAT IS A POLICY THAT LEADS TO THIS RESULT?

>> WELL, I'LL SAY JUST TO FOLLOW UP ON THE LACK OF QUALITY OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING, ONE OF THE ISSUES WE HAVE IS REPRESENTATION AND VACCINATION PROCEEDINGS, FOR EXAMPLE, A LOT OF RENTERS WHO DO HAVE A LOT OF HOUSING OPTIONS TO BEGIN WITH, MIGHT CHOOSE A HOUSE THAT IS SUBSTANDARD QUALITY WISE AND THEN PAY RENT FOR A PLACE THAT'S NOT EXACTLY WORTH WHAT THEY'RE PAYING AND SO WHEN THEY GET EVICTED, YOU KNOW, A DEFENSE THEY MAY HAVE IS THAT THE RENT THEY WERE PAYING BEFORE THEY STOPPED, SHOULD COVER THE AMOUNT , YOU KNOW, THAT THEY MIGHT HAVE MISSED.

BUT WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW IS THAT PEOPLE GET ATTORNEYS, THERE ARE MORE PROGRAMS NOW, THAT IS STARTING TO COME TO LIGHT MORE OFTEN.

SO I THINK ONE THING IS RIGHT TO COUNSEL IN VACCINATION COURT WILL BRING UP THE HOUSING ISSUES, BRING IT MORE INTO THE PUBLIC EYE AND THEN WE CAN START ADDRESSING THAT.

>> THAT'S SOMETHING YOU ARE DOING IN YOUR ROLE WITH CORNELL.

>> SO MY ROLE WAS CREATED SPECIFICALLY TO TACKLE THAT PROBLEM OF, YOU KNOW, THERE IS AN ACCESS TO JUSTICE GAP WHERE FOLKS ARE GOING TO COURT UNREPRESENTED.

THE STATISTICS WILL VARY THROUGHOUT THE STATE BUT GENERALLY LANDLORDS, 95% OF THE TIME, WILL HAVE AN ATTORNEY, WHEREAS TENANTS, IT'S LESS THAN 5% OF THE TIME THAT THEY WILL HAVE AN ATTORNEY.

SO MY POSITION IS CREATED TO SORT OF HELP BRIDGE THAT GAP BECAUSE LEGAL SERVICES CORPORATIONS CAN ONLY HELP FOLKS, YOU KNOW, THAT ARE SEVERELY IN POVERTY.

>> I SEE.

>> AND IF I COULD JUST JUMP IN ON ONE OTHER POLICY OR SET OF POLICIES, RIGHT, THAT I THINK HAVE PROVEN TO REALLY EXACERBATE THE CRISIS AND NOT IMPROVE IT.

WE HAVE SPENT DECADES INVESTING IN INCENTIVIZING DEVELOPMENTS WITH THE THEORY THAT THAT ALONE WILL ALLEVIATE THE CRISIS; THAT AN INCREASE IN STOCK, RIGHT, SUBSCRIBING TO THE SUPPLY AND DEMAND THEORY, WILL IMPROVE THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS.

AND WE DON'T NEED ANYMORE DATA TO SHOW US THAT THAT IS NOT WORKING, RIGHT?

HOUSING COSTS HAVE FAR OUTPACED THE WAY IJ CREASES, RIGHT.

SO IF WE LOOK AT OPPORTUNITY ZONE PROGRAMS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL, HERE IN NEW YORK STATE, WE HAVE 485A AND 421A, RIGHT.

AND SO HERE IN CENTRAL NEW YORK WHAT 485A DOES IS IT PROVIDES HUGE, HUGE TAX SUBSIDIES TO DEVELOPERS WITH NO AFFORDABILITY REQUIREMENTS.

YOU SIMPLY HAVE TO CONVERT COMMERCIAL PROPERTIES TO MIXED USE PROPERTIES.

SO A COMMERCIAL PROPERTY TO A PROPERTY THAT BECOMES COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL.

BUT THERE IS NO AFFORDABILITY REQUIREMENT TO IT WHATSOEVER.

AND SO THERE ARE ENORMOUS TAX SUBSIDIES THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT.

THE DEVELOPERS PAY A PREDEVELOPMENT-- PAY 0% TAX ON IT AND THEN IT TRANSITIONS TO A PREDEVELOPMENT TAX, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IS ALSO THEN, THAT BURDEN IS BORN BY THE REST OF THE TAX BASE.

AND SO IF THIS THEORY OF SIMPLY INCREASING SUPPLY, RIGHT, SO THAT THE DEMAND WAS LESSENED WAS GOING TO BRING COSTS DOWN, WE WOULD HAVE SEEN THE FRUITS OF THIS LABOR DECADES AGO SO WOVE' GOT TO REALLY GOT TO REALIZE THE FLAW IN THIS POLICY THINKING AND SHIFT AWAY FROM THAT SO TO ENACT THAT SHIFT, I GUESS, A DEVELOPER COULD STILL PUT UP A BUILDING BUT YOU WOULD HAVE SOME SORT OF AN EASEMENT, I GUESS, OR SOME SORT OF ZONING REQUIREMENTS YOU ARE GOING TO BUILD THAT BUILDING, YOU HAVE TO PUT ON TWO STORIES ON THE TOP THAT ARE FOR MORE AFFORDABLE OR YOU HAVE TO BUILD ANOTHER BUILDING?

IS THAT POSSIBLE TO DO SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> I MEAN IT'S A BEAR MINIMUM.

WE HAVE TO AT LEAST HAVE THE STARTING PLACE BE THAT WE ARE NOT GOING TO SUBSIDIZE WITH TAX DOLLARS FOR-PROFIT DEVELOPMENT.

AT THE P BEAR MINIMUM.

REAL ESTATE IS AN ENORMOUSLY PROFITABLE INDUSTRY.

AND THAT IS STEP ONE BASEMENT LEVEL POLICY SHIFT THAT WE HAVE TO MAKE.

>> THOSE BUILDINGS WILL GET BUILT ANYWAY?

>> INDEED THEY WILL.

AND THEN RENTS WILL RISE ACCORDINGLY AND THAT IS A WHOLE OTHER PROBLEM, BUT THAT SEEMS TO BE THE MOST COMMON SENSE BARE MINIMUM THINGS WE SHOULD BE DO.

>> AND WE ARE SPENDING A LOT OF PUBLIC DOLLARS IN INVESTING IN THOSE, YOU KNOW, MARKET RATE AND SOMETIMES EVEN LUXURY APARTMENT BUILDINGS AND DEVELOPMENTS, YOU KNOW, THROUGH OFTEN TIMES TAX ABATEMENTS.

IN CENTRAL NEW YORK, WE DO THIS THROUGH OUR INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AGENCIES.

THERE WILL BE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN TAX BREAKS BEING GIVEN TO MARKET RATE AND LUXURY DEVELOPERS FOR BUILDING THINGS LIKE LUXURY STUDENT HOUSING, FOR EXAMPLE.

AND WITH NO AFFORDABLE HOUSING REQUIREMENTS AT ALL.

>> I'M SORRY.

I WAS JUST GOING TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN SYRACUSE, WE HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN RIGHT AROUND THE UNIVERSITY.

I'LL SHOUT OUT TO THE SYRACUSE POST STANDARD THAT DID A PRETTY GOOD INVESTIGATION OF THAT A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, WHERE THESE REALLY FANTASTIC BUILDINGS WERE BUILT WITH VERY LITTLE COMMERCIAL ASPECT TO THEM.

>> YEAH, AND NOT JUST AROUND THE UNIVERSITY.

THERE ARE OTHERS IN SOME MORE SUBURBAN AREAS OF CENTRAL NEW YORK AND ONONDAGA COUNTY WHERE AGAIN LARGE TAX BREAKS SOMETIMES IN THE 2, 4, 6 MILLION-DOLLAR RANGE ARE GIVEN OUT FOR THESE LUXURY DEVELOPMENTS WITH THE UNDER-- UNDER THE ARGUMENT THAT THEY WOULD NOT BE BUILT OTHERWISE.

IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE IT WOULDN'T BE BUILT OTHERWISE.

PERHAPS RENTS-- MAYBE PROFITS WOULD BE LESS, BUT THOSE PROPERTIES WOULD BE BUILT OTHERWISE AND IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE NUMBERS WORK, THEN THERE IS NO DEMAND FOR THAT HOUSING, RIGHT?

WE WOULD LOVE TO SEE MORE THINGS LIKE AFFORDABLE HOUSING SET ASIDES IF THERE ARE GOING TO BE TAX BREAKS.

20% OF UNITS SHOULD BE AFFORDABLE AND DEEPLY AFFORDABLE, NOT JUST AFFORDABLE TO PEOPLE AT 80% OF THE AREA MEDIAN INCOME BUT AFFORDABLE TO PEOPLE AT 30 AND 50% OF THE MEDIAN AREA INCOME.

>> WHAT ABOUT A LEGISLATIVE APPROACH THAT MIGHT WORK TO HANDLE SOME OF THESE THINGS?

I'M THINKING REALLY, NEW YORK CITY, OF COURSE.

THAT'S THE BIG ONE, RIGHT?

AND I READ AN INTERESTING STATISTIC, WHICH SAID THAT OVER THE PAST 50 YEARS, AS MUCH HOUSING HAS BEEN BUILT IN NEW YORK AS WAS JUST THE 1920s ALONE.

THAT HAS STALLED OUT.

YOU CAN SEE MAYBE THERE IS A LAND ISSUE THERE.

BUT WHAT COULD BE DONE LEGISLATIVELY AND I'M LOOKING TO YOU AS LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR TO REBECCA, TO TURN THAT AROUND?

>> I MEAN THIS BRINGS ME TO SOMETHING I WANTED TO SAY WHEN WE STARTED THIS PIECE, RIGHT?

THE CONVERSATION WE ARE HAVING ALMOST CENTERS AROUND A PREMISE THAT THE SOLUTION TO THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS IS SOLELY RELATED TO A PROBLEM OF STOCK AND A LACK OF STOCK, RIGHT?

AND I REALLY WANT TO PUSH BACK ON THAT, RIGHT?

THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS IS RELATED TO THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A COMMODITY THAT IS SOLELY LEFT UP IN MANY CASES EXCEPT FOR THE RENT LEGITIMATE REGULATED MARKET, THAT IS DRIVEN BY THE FREE MARKET AND SO THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO ADDRESS THE AFFORDABILITY CRISIS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH STOCK.

AND SO IF WE LOOK AT NEW YORK CITY, AND WE LOOK AT THE RENT REGULATED UNITS OFTEN REFERRED TO AS RENT CONTROLLED WHICH IS ACTUALLY FROM A POLICY PERSPECTIVE, NOT THE RIGHT TERM BUT RENT REGULATED UNITS IN NEW YORK CITY, AND WE HAVE PROBABLY 2.5 MILLION IN NEW YORK CITY THAT ARE NOT RENT REGULATED SO THERE IS A CRISIS IN NEW YORK CITY JUST LIKE THERE IS OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK CITY.

BUT THERE IS A REALLY TIGHT METHOD FOR MONITORING AND ASSESSING WHAT IS A REASONABLE INCREASE, PROTECTIONS AROUND EVICTIONS AND YET, RIGHT, WE KNOW THAT OF THOSE RENT REGULATED UNITS, THE LANDLORDS WHO OWN THEM, SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 90 AND 95% OF THEM OPERATE AT A PROFIT, RIGHT.

SO WE HAVE THIS REALLY WELL VETTED SYSTEM SIPS 1974 THAT SHOWS YOU CAN HAVE AN AFFORDABILITY SYSTEM THAT STILL ALLOWS AN INDUSTRY TO OPERATE AT A PROFIT, AND SO THE THAYER TIFF-- THE NARRATIVE THAT WE CAN'T PROTECT SOMETHING AS CRUCIAL AS HOUSING FOR OUR COMMUNITIES, WITH ANY SORTS OF REGULATIONS WHILE STILL ENSURING SOME DEGREE OF PROFITABILITY IS A FALSE ONE.

>> BUT POLITICALLY, I MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT THE HOUSING MARKET WOULD BE AS REGULATED, THE WIDER HOUSING MARKET AS REGULATED AS THE RENT CONTROLLED MARKET IN THE CITY SEEMS TO ME, TO BE-- WOULD BE A HARD SELL.

>> I'LL SAY TWO THINGS AND THEN I WANT TO GIVE OTHER FOLKS A CHANCE TO JUMP IN BECAUSE I SEE THEM CHOMPING AT THE BIT.

I'LL SAY TWO THINGS.

ONE THAT IS NARRATIVE AND ONE THAT IS POLICY.

THE NARRATIVE ONE IS MY ANSWER TO THAT IS ALWAYS THAT WE REGULATE UTILITIES BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT A UTILITY IS TOO IMPORTANT TO BE LEFT SOLELY TO THE FREE MARKET, RIGHT?

AND IT IS NOT A PERFECT SYSTEM BY ANY MEANS, RIGHT, UTILITY PEOPLE STRUGGLE TO PAY UTILITIES BUT THERE IS A MECHANISM BY OUR GOVERNMENT THAT RECOGNIZES THIS CAN'T BE LEFT UP TO A PROFITABILITY SYSTEM ALONE.

AND YET, THE IRONY THAT THE STRUCTURE THAT HOUSES THOSE UTILITIES, WE ARGUE THAT THAT COULD NOT POSSIBLY FALL UNDER THE SAME CRITERIA.

YOU KNOW, I FIND THAT ILLOGICAL AT BEST AND SELF SERVING AT WORST.

TO THE POLL-- TO THE POLICY POINT, I THINK WE CAN MAKE REALLY, REALLY INCREMENTAL POLICY CHANGES TO GET US THERE, GOOD CAUSE EVICTION, I WANT A LARGER CONVERSATION ABOUT THIS LATER.

BUT WE ARE REALLY CLOSE TO PASSING GOOD CAUSE EVICTION THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS THAT DEALS WITH THIS ISSUE IN RENT REGULATED UNITS IN A WAY THAT DOESN'T HAVE GOVERNMENTAL REGULATION THE SAME AS RENT CONTROL DOES BUT IT SAYS THERE HAS TO BE A CAUSE FOR EVICTION AND JUSTIFICATION FOR UNREASONABLE RENT INCREASE SO WE CAN GO THERE.

>> COLTON, I SEE YOU NODDING CAN YOU EXPLAIN MORE ABOUT WHAT GOOD CAUSE EVICTION IS?

>> GENERALLY WHEN YOUR LEASE TERM RUNS OUT, IF YOUR LANDLORD HAS ELECTED TO NOT RENEW YOUR TENANCY, THEY CAN START EVICTION PROCEEDING IF YOU DECIDE TO STAY.

GOOD CAUSE EVICTION OR RIGHT TO RENEW, SOME WOULD CALL THEM SOMEWHAT CONCEPTS BUT GO AND HAD IN HAND, YOU WOULD BE ALLOWED TO RENEW YOUR TENANCY AND STAY ON THE SAME TERMS WITH SOME TYPE OF RESTRICTION POTENTIALLY ON HOW MUCH RENT CAN BE INCREASED UNLESS ONE OF THE FEW ENUMERATED REASONS WOULD ALLOW A LANDLORD TO EVICT YOU.

SOME OF THAT MAY BE WHETHER, DEPENDING ON HOW MANY UNITS THE LANDLORD OWNS, WHETHER THEY MIGHT BE TRYING TO HAVE THE UNIT BACK TO USE THEMSELVES, OTHER REASONS MIGHT BE THAT.

>> BASICALLY THEY NEED A GOOD CAUSE TO PUSH YOU OUT THE DOOR CAN'T BE THAT I WANT TO RENT TO MY COUSIN JOE.

>> DEPENDING ON HOW MANY YOU OWN, IT COULD BE A REASON.

>> IT CAN'T BE THAT YOU COMPLAINED ABOUT NEEDING A REPAIR AND THEN DECIDED TO KICK YOU OUT AS A RESULT.

>> DIFFERENT CITIES ARE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT BILLS WITH DIFFERENT REASONS ALBANY PASSED A BILL AND A LOT ARE USING THAT AS A MODEL.

>> AS DID HUDSON LAST WEEK COLTON, WITH RENTERS, I'M SURE SOME OF THE RENTERS USE SECTION 8 VOUCHERS TO PAY THE RENT.

THE CENTER FOR BUDGET POLICIES ESTIMATED ONE IN FOUR ELIGIBLE RENTERS ARE HELPED BY FEDERAL HOUSING ASSISTANCE.

>> WHAT IS THE HOLDUP?

>> NOT ENOUGH MONEY, NOT ENOUGH AWARENESS OF THE PROGRAMS AVAILABLE BUT GENERALLY NOT ENOUGH MONEY.

YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT OF PLACES JUST THE WAIT TIMES, TO BE ON THE WAIT LIST TO GET A VOUCHER CAN BE ONE TO TWO YEARS IF YOU ARE LUCKY AND AS MUCH AS TN YEARS, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE DECADE S DO LANDLORDS HAVE TO ACCEPT THE VOUCHER SECTION 8.

>> THEY DO.

IT WOULD BE INCOME DISCRIMINATION IF THEY DID NOT.

>> I KNOW REPRESENTATIVE RITCHIE TORRES, U.S. REPRESENTATIVE HAS CALLED FOR EXPANDING THE USE OF SECTION 8 AND ESSENTIALLY MAKING HOUSING AND ENTITLEMENT PROGRAM LIKE SOME OTHERS WE HAVE.

EVERYBODY SHOULD HAVE A HOUSE, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT.

GOOD IDEA?

>> I SUPPORT UNIVERSAL VOUCHER PROGRAMS SMED AND AND WE ARE GLAD TO HAVE SOURCE OF INCOME PROTECTION IN NEW YORK STATE.

IT'S BEEN PASSED IN 2019 AND WE ARE PROUD TO BE PART OF THE COALITION THAT HAD GOTTEN THAT PASSED.

A COUPLE OF INTERESTING THINGS WE HAVE LEARNED SINCE THE SOURCE OF INCOME LEGISLATION HAS PASSED.

ONE, HOUSING PROVIDERS ARE FINDING WAYS AROUND TO TRY TO DISCRIMINATE BY REQUIRING OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT EFFECTIVELY ELIMINATE VOUCHER HOLDERS FROM BEING ABLE TO RENT.

THINGS LIKE INCOME REQUIREMENT THAT ARE SO HIGH THAT IF YOU MET THE INCOME REQUIREMENT, YOU WOULDN'T EVER QUALIFY FOR A VOUCHER.

SO WE HAVE LITIGATION PENDING ON CASES WITH THOSE FACTS.

WE ARE HOPING TO HAVE GOOD CASE LAW.

WE CONTINUE TO EDUCATE HOUSING PROVIDERS, OF COURSE ON THAT LAW AND WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE AND WE CONTINUE TO EDUCATE TENANTS.

WE ALSO FIND THAT SOME HOUSING AUTHORITIES ACTUALLY DON'T HAVE WAITING LISTS OR LONG WAITING LISTS FOR VOUCHERS.

MANY COMMUNITIES, SMALLER TOWNS, HAVE VOUCHER PROGRAMS THAT HAVE WAITING LISTS OF ONE MONTH OR TWO MONTHS OR THREE MONTHS.

BUT THEY'RE ONLY MAKING THOSE VOUCHERS AVAILABLE TO PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THOSE COMMUNITIES, WHICH NOT ONLY-- WHICH HAS THE EFFECT OF CONTINUING TO SEGREGATE POPULATIONS.

SO THAT'S ANOTHER ISSUE WE ARE LOOKING INTO CALLED RESIDENCY PREFERENCES AMONG HOUSING AUTHORITIES SO THAT EVEN THE VOUCHERS THAT ARE AVAILABLE ARE NOT AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY.

>> SO IF THAT-- ONE OF THOSE COMMUNITIES HAVE VOUCHERS AVAILABLE AND SOMEONE FROM THE NEIGHBORING TOWN WANTS TO USE IT, THEY SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO USE IT?

THEY ARE LEGALLY RIGHT NOW ALLOWED TO USE IT?

>> IT'S PARTICULARLY PROBLEMATIC WHEN YOU HAVE HUGE DEMOGRAPHIC DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THAT TOWN AND THE NEXT.

SO IF YOU HAVE A LARGELY WHITE TOWN, FOR EXAMPLE, WHO HAS A LIMITATION ON WHO CAN USE THE VOUCHER AND THEN YOU HAVE A NEIGHBORING AREA THAT HAS MORE BLACK HOUSEHOLDS AND THAT'S WHERE... >> IS THAT A MODERN-DAY RED LINING?

>> IT'S CONCERNING.

I'LL SAY THAT.

IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATING, AND IT'S A PRACTICE WE ARE CERTAINLY CONCERNED ABOUT.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME CASES THAT HAVE BEEN FILED IN NEW YORK STATE ON THIS ISSUE, A FEW CASES DOWNSTATE, HUDSON VALLEY, DEPENDING WHERE THE DOWNSTATE-UPSTATE LINE IS.

SO THERE IS-- I THINK IT'S AN AREA THAT WE ARE HOPING TO SEE CHANGING.

>> OKAY.

I WANT TO ASK-- SWITCH GEARS A LITTLE BIT.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING THUS FAR ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE LOWER INCOME SCALE, WHO STARTED OFF TALKING THAT ANYBODY WHO WORKS FULL TIME MINIMUM WAGE CANNOT AFFORD TO LIVE ANYWHERE.

LET'S SWITCH GEARS A LITTLE BIT, TO PEOPLE THAT WANT TO OWN THEIR OWN HOME, NOT JUST RENT.

HOME OWNERSHIP HAS ALWAYS BEEN SEEN AS THE PATH TO THE AMERICAN DREAM.

BUY A STARTER HOME, GET EQUITY, A FEW YEARS LATER, SELL IT AND BUILD UP TO SOMETHING A LITTLE NICER AND THEN A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY, MILLENNIALS HAVE BEEN HAVING DIFFICULTY MAKING THAT INITIAL PURCHASE.

THEY CAN'T GET ON THAT RUNG OF THE LADDER.

THEY'RE NOT LOWER INCOME.

IT MAY NOT BE WEALTHY BUT THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO BUY A HOUSE.

I'M WONDERING WHAT IS BEHIND THE SHORTAGE OF STARTER HOMES WE ARE SEEING?

>> WELL, I THINK YOU KNOW, THERE ARE CONSTRUCTION COST ISSUES THAT ARE, I THINK, IMPACTING THE HOUSING MARKET AS WELL RIGHT NOW.

BUT WE ARE SEEING A BIG JUMP IN HOME SALE PRICES UPSTATE.

I KNOW IN ONONDAGA COUNTY ALONE, WE ARE SEEING INCREASES CITY OF SYRACUSE HAS A 25% INCREASE IN THE HOME SALE PRICES YEAR TO YEAR OVER THE LAST YEAR.

SO WE ARE SEEING THIS BIG JUMP AS HOUSES ARE GETTING MORE EXPENSE ITCH.

WE HAVE MORE PEOPLE MOVING INTO COMMUNITIES LIKE SYRACUSE.

WE ARE HEARING MORE ANECDOTALLY RIGHT NOW.

I'M NOT NECESSARILY SEEING THE DATA YET BUT MOVING FROM PLACES LIKE NEW YORK CITY.

AND SO IT'S GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO PURCHASE HOMES.

ONE OF THE OTHER ISSUES IS THERE ARE PRACTICES THAT LIMIT WHAT HOMES A FIRST TIME HOME BUYER CAN EVEN BUY.

EVEN WHEN A HOUSE IS AVAILABLE AND EVEN WHEN IT'S AFFORDABLE, SOMETIMES THE LISTING OR THE AGENTS OR THE SELLERS ARE MAKING REQUIREMENTS THAT THEY'LL ONLY ACCEPT A CONVENTIONAL LOAN OR A CASH OFFER ONLY.

AND BECAUSE THE MARKET IS SO COMPETITIVE RIGHT NOW, A FIRST-TIME HOME BUYER HAS VERY FEW CHOICES, ESPECIALLY IF THEY'RE LOOKING TO PURCHASE A HOME WITH A GOVERNMENT-BACKED MORTGAGE LIKE AN F.H.A.

OR V.A.

LOAN AND THAT HAS A HUGE IMPACT PARTICULARLY ON BLACK AND HISPANIC HOMEBUYERS MORE MORE LIKELY TO USE THOSE PROGRAMS.

>> AND THIS GOES AGAIN TO OUR COMPLETE ALLOWANCE, RIGHT, FOR THE FREE MARKET TO MOVE AS IT WILL.

WE HAVE SEEN PRIVATE EQUITY FIRMS BUYING UP SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES AT AN ALARMING RATE IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT, RIGHT?

SO BLACKSTONE, ONE OF THE PRIVATE EQUITY TIRMS FIRMS THAT BOUGHT UP AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF RENTAL STOCK AFTER THE HOUSING CRISIS OF 2008 HAS BEEN NOTED YOU CAN GOOGLE THIS, RIGHT, HAS BEEN SEEN, RIGHT, BUYING SUBSIDIARIES AND LITERALLY, I THINK IT WAS JUST IN 2020 BOUGHT $600 BILLION IN STOCK OF SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES.

SO WHEN SALLY SPEAKS TO, RIGHT, LIKE FIRST TIME COMMUNITY HOMEBUYERS LOSING OUT BECAUSE YOU NEED TO BE PAYING ALL CASH, AND OFFERS THAT ARE ACCESSING FIRST TIME HOME BUYER PROGRAMS, NOT BEING SUCCESSFUL IN BIDS, IT'S BECAUSE WE HAVE THESE PRIVATE EQUITY FIRMS SCOOPING UP ALL THE STOCK ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

AND SO WE NEED A REALLY INTENTIONAL POLICY INVESTMENT AND APPROACH ON THE PART OF OUR STATES AND COUNTRY TO SAY, WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW, RIGHT, OUR ENTIRE HOUSING STOCK TO BE BOUGHT UP BY THESE HUGE FOR-PROFIT CONGLOMERATES.

>> HELP ME UNDERSTAND FOR A SECOND.

OBVIOUSLY THOSE FIRMS WANT TO HAVE A REALLY GOOD RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

WHAT IS THAT RETURN?

I MEAN THEY'RE SELLING THEM JUST TO THE HIGHER END OF THE MARKET?

IS THAT-- >> SO IN SOME INSTANCES, THEY'RE FLIPPING THEM AND IN SOME INSTANCES THEY'RE HOLDING THEM AS RENTALS GOING BACK TO OUR ORIGINAL CONVERSATION OF HOW THEY'RE HOLDING THEM AS RENTALS BUT DOES THAT-- >> OR EVEN IN SOME INSTANCES, HOLDING THEM AS AIRBNB.

>> THAT'S INTERESTING.

THERE IS NOTHING ILLEGAL ABOUT THAT.

>> IT'S PROFITABLE.

>> IT'S THE AMERICAN SYSTEM LOOKING FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE A PROFIT.

>> PROFITABLE.

DISWR OKAY.

>> I THINK THERE IS PENDING IN SOME COMMUNITIES ARE MAKING AT LIMITING AIR YASSER ARAFAT AIRBNB BECAUSE THEY'RE ABLE TO FIND HOUSING.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THE COMMUNITIES ARE LOOKING TO DO TO TRY TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE.

YOU KNOW, THE OTHER THING-- ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAPPENS WITH A TIGHT HOUSING MARKET IS WHEN THERE ARE MULTIPLE COMPETITIVE OFFERS FOR A HOME, THERE IS, YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES OTHER FACTORS THAT WEIGH IN ON WHAT THE SELLER, WHICH OFFER THE SELLER IS GOING TO CHOOSE AND SO YOU SEE THINGS LIKE THEY'RE CALLED LOVE LETTERS IN THE INDUSTRY, WHERE YOU KNOW, A BUYER IS TRYING TO CONVINCE THE SELLER WHY THEY'RE THE BEST HOME BUYER AND THAT JUST INTRODUCES ALL SORTS OF BIAS INTO THE POTENTIAL SALE.

>> NOW THE PANDEMIC HAS BROUGHT A UNIQUE SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES TO THE HOUSING ISSUE AS WE'VE HEARD.

BOTH FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND NEW YORK STATE HAVE MADE FUNDS AVAILABLE FOR RENTERS AFFECTED BY THE PANDEMIC TO MAKE THEIR MONTHLY PAYMENT BUT GETTING THE MONEY HAS NOT BEEN EASY, ESPECIALLY IN NEW YORK, LEAVING TENANTS UNABLE TO PAY THEIR RENT AND LANDLORDS UNABLE TO PAY THEIR BILLS.

>> COVID HAS TURNED EVERYBODY'S LIFE AROUND AND HOUSING TENANTS IS ONE OF THE AREAS THAT HAS BEEN MOST AFFECTED BY THIS PANDEMIC.

MY NAME IS SHARON SHERMAN.

I'M EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE GREATER SYRACUSE TENANTS NETWORK.

SO MANY PEOPLE WHO CALL ME, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A NEW LACE TO LIVE, MAYBE BECAUSE OF CONDITIONS, MAYBE BECAUSE THEY'RE PAYING TOO MUCH, AND THEY'RE EXTREMELY DISCOURAGED.

RENT PRICES IN CENTRAL NEW YORK HAVE BEEN GOING UP TREMENDOUSLY IN THE LAST FIVE, 10 YEARS.

IT WAS GOING UP WAY BEFORE COVID AND NOTHING HAS STOPPED IT.

IT'S JUST GOTTEN MORE INTENSE.

>> WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE PANDEMIC IS THAT THE WE SAW MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LOSE THEIR JOBS, PARTICULARLY THOSE IN THE SERVICE SECTOR WHERE THEY SAW ENTIRE INDUSTRIES KIND OF SHUT DOWN.

IN ADDITION TO THE JOB LOSSES THAT HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCED, THERE BE A CRISIS IN CHILD CARE WITH REMOTE SCHOOLING AND SO MANY PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE WANTED TO GO BACK INTO THE LABOR MARKET HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO.

>> MANY PEOPLE HAVE LOST INCOME AND ARE UNABLE TO PAY THE RENT.

>> SMALL LANDLORDS WHO RELY UPON THE INCOME THAT THEY HAVE RECEIVED FROM THEIR RENTAL PROPERTIES, YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN A VERY DIFFICULT EXPERIENCE FOR THEM IF THEY'RE NOT GETTING RENT.

>> MY NAME IS TRACEY WINTERS AND I AM CO-OWNER OF THREE MANUFACTURED HOME COMMUNITIES.

>> ONE OF THE COMMUNITIES THAT I OWN IN CAYUGA COUNTY.

THIS COMMUNITY IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE ONES TO MAINTAIN.

THIS ONE HAS CITY SEWER AND CITY WATER.

THAT'S ONE OF OUR BIGGEST EXPENSES NEXT TO TAXES.

LIKE EVERYBODY, SOME OF OUR RESIDENTS HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY COVID AND SOME OF THEM HAVE STRUGGLED TO PAY THEIR RENT.

SOME OF THEM HAVE QUALIFIED FOR THE ERAP PROGRAM.

>> RENTAL ASSISTANCE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PUT IN PLACE WAS SO IMPORTANT AND SO HISTORIC BECAUSE THERE IS A WILL AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL TO ENSURE THAT TENANTS ACTUALLY BE ABLE TO STAY IN THEIR HOUSING AND THAT LANDLORDS GET PAID THE MONEY THAT THEY'RE OWED.

>> THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THROUGH CONGRESS HAS PROVIDED AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF FUNDS TO STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TO PROVIDE RENT RELIEF FOR PEOPLE THROUGHOUT THE UNITED STATES, BUT PARTICULARLY IN NEW YORK STATE, GETTING THAT MONEY OUT THE DOOR HAS BEEN TERRIBLE.

>> LIKE MANY, LANDLORDS KNOW THERE HAS BEEN NO RESPONSE.

SO THEREFORE THERE IS A LOT OF RENTS THAT HAVE GONE UNPAID BASICALLY.

BECAUSE THE STATE IS SIMPLY NOT DISTRIBUTING THAT MONEY RIGHT NOW THERE IS $16,000 THAT I KNOW OF THAT TENANTS QUALIFY FOR THAT HAVE I SENT TO THE STATE AND THE STATE HAS NOT RESPONDED AT ALL AND THAT WAS FOUR MONTHS AGO.

>> A PLAN THAT'S BASED ON LOW INCOME PEOPLE HAVING ACCESS TO THE INTERNET IS A TREMENDOUS BARRIER TO PEOPLE.

>> VERY DWI TO DIFFICULT TO SUBMIT AN APPLICATION.

I'VE SPENT HOURS AND HOURS WITH RESIDENTS WHO I BELIEVE QUALIFY FOR THIS MONEY, BUT YET THE STATE HAS LOTS OF EXCUSES WHEN YOU CALL THEM FOR DEFLECTING YOUR QUESTIONS.

AND IF I CAN'T PAY MY BILLS, I CAN'T PROVIDE THE SERVICES THAT I OWE TO MY, THE REST OF MY TENANTS WHO ARE PAYING, WHO ARE ABLE TO PAY THEIR BILLS.

>> THE EVICTION MORATORIUM WAS PUT INTO PLACE BY THE NEW YORK GOVERNMENT, THE NEW GOVERNOR PUT A SESSION INTO PLACE TO EXTEND THE EVICTION MORATORIUM SO IT PROHIBITS LANDLORDS FROM EVICTING TENANTS ECONOMICALLY IMPACTED BY THE PANDEMIC.

>> WE ARE THE FIRST STATE TO TAKE THIS VERY POSITIVE ASSERTIVE ACTION IN PROTECTING PEOPLE FOR A FEW MORE MONTHS.

>> THERE WAS ABSOLUTELY NO NEED FOR AN EVICTION MORATORIUM.

MOST LANDLORDS DO NOT WANT TO EVICT A TENANT.

A TENANT IS A CUSTOMER.

RIGHT NOW WHAT WE HAVE IS A BAND-AID AND WE ARE TRYING TO STEM THE TIDE OF EVICTIONS THAT WILL TAKE PLACE IF THE EVICTION MORATORIUM IS ENDED.

>> THE SITUATION THAT EXISTS RIGHT NOW IS GOING TO HURT EVERYBODY BECAUSE WE HAVE A HOUSING CRISIS AND NOBODY, NO BUSINESS PERSON IS GOING TO WANT TO PROVIDE HOUSING IF THEY DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN BE COMPENSATED.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW OUR LAWMAKERS GET AWAY WITH MAKING LAWS FORCING AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY TO WORK WITHOUT COMPENSATION.

I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT EVEN BECAME POSSIBLE.

>> THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF MAJOR POLICY APPROACHES TO HELPING RENTERS OVER THE PAST 18 MONTHS SINCE COVID STARTED.

TURNING TO RENTAL ASSISTANCE, AS OF JULY 1, NEW YORK STATE HAS DISTRIBUTED 2.7 MILLION WHILE TEXAS SENT OUT $616 MILLION.

NOW IT'S RAMPED UP CONSIDERABLY SINCE THEN BUT STILL JUST A FRACTION OF WHAT WAS APPROPRIATED.

SO COLTON, WHAT DID WE DO WOULD THANKING?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, WE TOOK WAY TOO LONG TO START ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS TO BEGIN WITH.

I BELIEVE JUNE 1 WAS THE FIRST THAT ODTA STARTED ACCEPTING APPLICATIONS AND THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS THE PROGRAM WAS NOT SMOOTH FROM THE BEGINNING.

SO NOT ONLY WERE THERE TNL GLITCHES WITH THE PROGRAM-- TECHNICAL GLITCHES WITH THE PROGRAM ITSELF.

FIRST OF ALL IN THE BEGINNING YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO SAVE AN APPLICATION ONCE YOU STARTED AND IT TAKES HOURS SOMETIMES TO INPUT ALL THE DATA, TO GET ALL YOUR DOCUMENTS ON SO TO HAVE AN INTERNET CONNECTION, MAYBE YOU DROP IT FOR A SECOND AND HAVE TO START OVER AGAIN.

THAT'S BEEN PREVENTING PEOPLE FROM GETTING PEOPLE MORE APPLICATIONS IN.

>> AND I WOULD IMAGINE THE SO CALLED DIGITAL DIVIDE PLAYS INTO HERE, TOO.

>> 100%.

>> SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO NEED THAT ASSISTANCE, THEIR WIRELESS AT HOME MAY NOT BE GREAT.

>> IF THEY HAVE ONE AT ALL.

AND SO ANOTHER PROBLEM THOUGH THAT WAVE' SEEN IS THAT THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF ISSUES WITH FOLKS GETTING THE PROPER DOCUMENTATION.

RULES HAVE SINCE BEEN RELAXED BUT ESPECIALLY IN THE BEGINNING, THE FIRST 30 DAYS WAS A PRIORITY PERIOD FOR FOLKS MOST AT RISK; HOWEVER, A LOT OF THOSE SAME FOLKS EITHER RENT IN LESS FORMAL AGREEMENTS WHERE MAYBE THEY DON'T USUALLY RECEIVE A RECEIPT FOR THEIR RENT.

SO TO GO BACK THROUGH A WHOLE YEAR AND TRY TO GET A YEAR'S WORTH OF DOCUMENTATION IS REALLY TOUGH FOR A LOT OF FOLKS.

>> AND SHOULD-- SHOULD THAT MONEY GO TO THE RENTERS OR SHOULD THAT GO TO THE LANDLORDS?

WOULD THAT MAKE IT SMOOTHER, THE WOMAN, THE LANDLORD IN THE PACKAGE WE JUST SAW.

THE MONEY IS FUNNELED TO HER THROUGH THE RENTER, RIGHT?

>> IT GOES DIRECTLY TO THE LANDLORD.

>> OH OKAY.

>> AT THIS POINT THERE NEEDS TO BE PARTICIPATION FROM BOTH SIDES IN THE NORMAL PROGRAM.

THERE WAS SOME MONEY SET ASIDE THAT COULD GO DIRECTLY TO LANDLORDS IF A TENANT EITHER VACATED AND WAS UNABLE TO BE LOCATED OR OTHERWISE DIDN'T DECIDE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PROGRAM.

BUT THE WAY NORMALLY WORKS, EITHER A TENANT OR LANDLORD WILL START THE APPLICATION.

THEY BOTH NEED TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTATION, AND YOU KNOW, CERTAIN AFFIRMATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION PROVIDED AND THEN FROM THERE, THE STATE DETERMINES, YOU KNOW, WHAT PAYMENTS ARE COVERED.

>> NOW THE SECOND MAJOR POLICY APPROACH HAS BEEN THE MORATORIUM TO EVICTIONS.

AND SO AND THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF NEWS WITH THAT.

THE COURTS RULING ON BOTH THE FEDERAL EVICTION AND PART OF NEW YORK STATE'S EVICTION.

REBECCA, CAN YOU BRING US UP TO DATE WHERE THAT STANDS RIGHT NOW?

>> YES, SO AFTER-- IT WAS SET TO RUN OUT, THE NEW YORK MORATORIUM WAS SET TO EXPIRE AUGUST 31.

PRIOR TO THAT HAPPENING, SCOTUS, THE SUPREME COURT, DELIVERED AN INJUNCTION SUSPENDING THE MORATORIUM ANYWAY CITING A SPECIFIC PORTION OF THE LAW.

OUR STATE LEGISLATURE CAME BACK INTO SESSION AND PASSED ANOTHER MORATORIUM, WHICH HAD MANY OF THE SAME PARAMETERS EXCEPT THAT, RIGHT?

IT SAYS THAT A TENANT CAN SIGN A HARDSHIP THAT GIVES THEM PROTECTIONS FROM EVICTION.

THEY'RE MUCH MORE EXPANSIVE THAN THE ONES THAT HAD EXISTED UNDER THE CDC MORATORIUM, WHICH THEN WAS STRUCK DOWN.

SO IT COULD BE RELATED TO FINANCIAL HARDSHIP FROM JOB LOSS, BUT IT COULD ALSO BE FINANCIAL HARDSHIP BECAUSE OF THINGS LIKE INCREASED COST OF CHILD CARE SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO JUST BE JOB LOSS.

IT COULD ALSO BE HEALTH CONSIDERATIONS THAT YOU HAVE THAT WOULD MAKE IT DANGEROUS FOR YOU TO BE EVICTED.

SO THE THING THAT CHANGED BECAUSE OF THE SCOTUS DECISION IS THAT IT DOES GIVE LANDLORDS THE OPPORTUNITY TO CHALLENGE THE VALIDITY OF THE ASSERTIONS IN THAT DECLARATION, WHICH WAS THE PART THAT WAS CITED.

>> AND THERE HAVE BEEN ACCUSATIONS, RIGHT, SOME ABUSE IN THAT PROGRAM; THAT THE, YOU KNOW, YOU MIGHT-- IF YOU DON'T HAVE TO REALLY PROVE THAT YOU HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE HEARD ANECDOTALLY THAT TENANTS, MAYBE THEY WERE LIVING AT A PLACE THAT HADN'T BEEN MAINTAINED FOR HOWEVER MANY YEARS AND SO THEY'RE FRUSTRATED WITH THEIR LANDLORD BECAUSE THE LANDLORD HAS NEVER FULFILLED THEIR END OF THIS AGREEMENT AND SO THEY'RE FRUSTRATED WITH THEIR LANDLORD AND MAYBE RESIDENT AS WILLING TO PAY THE RENT BECAUSE THEIR RIGHTS HAVEN'T BEEN RESPECTED SINCE THEY MOVED INTO THE PLACE.

WE ARE CERTAINLY HEARING THOSE THINGS ANECDOTESALLY.

THE REALITY IS WHEN YOU ARE LIVING IN POVERTY, YOU OFTEN DEFER PURCHASES, THINGS LIKE, THINGS YOUR KIDS WANT OR NEED.

YOU DEFER JOY; FRANKLY.

AND SO SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, WHEN SOMEONE HAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CATCH UP ON THOSE THINGS THAT THEY HAVE HAD TO WAIT FOR FOR YEARS, IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE THAT THEY'RE GOING TO... >> WELL WAIT A SECOND NOW.

I MEAN I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING THERE, BUT THAT IS CLEARLY NOT WHAT THE PROGRAM IS DESIGNED TO DO.

>> NO, I'M NOT SAYING WITH THE EMERGENCY RENTAL ASSISTANCE.

I'M SAYING WITH THINGS LIKE SOME OF THE STIMULUS FUNDING OR WITH SOME OF THE OTHER SUPPORTS, NOT WITH THE EMERGENCY RENTAL ASSISTANCE.

IT GOES Dr. ECTLY TO THE LANDLORDS.

>> SOME OF THE SUPPORTS ARE, OF COURSE, EXTENDED UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS ARE NOW ENDING OR HAVE ENDED, I BELIEVE, AS OF THIS MONTH.

HAVE WE HEARD ANYTHING?

WHEN YOU COMBINE ALL THIS TOGETHER, THAT'S A PRETTY SEVERE CLIFF.

DO WE KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENED.

>> THE EXPANDED CHILD TAX CREDIT IS HELPING.

YOU KNOW, WE SAW ACTUALLY POVERTY DECREASE LAST YEAR DESPITE, YOU KNOW, THE ECONOMIC HARDSHIP BECAUSE OF THE SUPPORTS THAT WERE OFFERED TO PEOPLE.

>> EXPANDED CREDIT THOUGH TO BE CONTINUED IS PART OF THE BIG RECONCILIATION BILL THAT IS ANYBODY'S GUESS WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH, RIGHT?

>> I'M AN OPTIMIST SO, AND THERE ARE SOME GREAT HOUSING INVESTMENTS IN THAT RECONCILIATION BILL, SO I AM GOING TO REMAIN OPTIMISTIC THAT WE WILL SEE THAT.

YOU KNOW IT'S... WE ARE INVESTING IN PEOPLE IN A DIFFERENT WAY.

AND DIFFERENT WAY THAN WE HAVE SEEN AND FRANKLY THAN WE HAVE SEEN IN YEARS.

I HOPE WE CONTINUE TO SEE THOSE INVESTMENTS BOTH IN THOSE HOUSEHOLDS AND IN THEIR HOUSING.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE-- I THINK THE MARKET, I EXPECT WILL SMOOTH OUT A LITTLE BIT.

YOU HAVE THINGS LIKE STUDENT LOAN FORGIVENESS, OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON OUR HOUSING MARKET THAT WE ALSO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT, TOO.

>> WHEN WE TALK ABOUT IMPACTS, LET'S ASK-- I WANT TO ASK ABOUT IMPACTS OF EVICTION BECAUSE THIS CAN SOUND ASEPTIC.

YOU ARE EVICTED, NOT EVICTED.

THIS PROGRAM, THAT EVICTED BUT IT HAS TO HAVE DOWNSTREAM EFFECTS FROM THAT.

YOU ARE OR DEALING WITH PEOPLE IN YOUR LEGAL PRACTICE WHO ARE EVICTED.

I KNOW THERE IS NO CERTAIN EXACT THING THAT HAPPENS, BUT WHAT ARE SOME OF THE EFFECTS THAT WOULD HAPPEN IN A FAMILY.

>> THINK ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU LOST YOUR HOME F. YOU CHOSE TO LIVE SOMEWHERE CLOSE TO WORK OR ABLE TO GET PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION TO WORK, YOU LOSE THAT, RIGHT?

YOUR CHILD GOING TO SCHOOL WILL BE INTERRUPTED.

YOU MAY HAVE TO MOVE TO A DIFFERENT DISTRICT, AT LEAST FOR THE TIME YOU ARE MOVING, THEY MIGHT BE OUT OF SCHOOL WHILE YOU FIGURE THAT OUT.

THAT WILL AFFECT THEIR FINANCIAL ABILITY TO EARN DOWN THE ROAD FOR GENERATIONS, IT BECOMES A GENERATIONAL PROBLEM AT THAT POINT.

AND THE REALISTIC PART OF IT ONCE YOU BECOME EVICTED, IT IS DIFFICULT TO RENT DOWN THE ROAD.

THERE ARE LAWS IN NEW YORK THAT PROTECT AGAINST DISCRIMINATING AGAINST FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN EVICTED; HOWEVER, THERE ARE WAYS TO GET AROUND THAT.

IT DOES SHOW UP GENERALLY ON A CREDIT CHECK AND IT'S NOT NECESSARILY ILLEGAL TO NOT RENT TO SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY HAVE POOR CREDIT SO THAT LOOPS BACK AROUND TO FEED INTO IT.

>> NOW IN TERMS OF THE BASIC PROBLEM, LAKE OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SOME POTENTIAL THINGS THAT MIGHT BE DONE AND I'M GOING TO ASK YOU ALL FOR YOUR SOLUTIONS IN A MOMENT ARE THERE LAND USE TOOLS THAT COULD BE EMPLOYED TO MOTIVATE CONSTRUCTION, LIMIT CONDO CONVERSIONS OR MANDATORY SET ASIDES?

I GUESS IN A SENSE THAT'S WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT EARLIER.

>> Y I WANT TO SPEND TWO SECONDS AFFIRMING SOMETHING SALLY SAID.

>> I'LL GIVE YOU FIVE SECONDS.

>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

WE KNOW THAT ANYBODY WHO WAS ON UNEMPLOYMENT AUTOMATICALLY QUALIFIES FOR THE RENTAL ASSISTANCE FOR THE ERAP PROGRAM.

AND I TAKE SUCH OFFENSE WHEN WE HEAR THESE STORIES OF LANDLORDS WHO SAY BUT I SAW A PACKAGE AT THE DOOR.

THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE KIDS WHOSE SHOES ARE FALLING APART.

AND THE IDEA THAT THERE IS THIS MONITORING OF A PACKAGE THAT SHOWS UP, WHICH COULD BE DESPERATELY NEEDED SHOES OR CLOTHING OR WE DON'T KNOW WHAT.

YOU KNOW WHAT?

WHERE IS THE SAME TREATMENT WHEN A REPAIR IS NOT MADE, WHEN HOT WATER IS NO THE THERE OR HEAT IS NO THE THERE OR THERE IS LEAD THAT'S NOT REMEDIATED?

IS ANYONE FOLLOWING THE LANDLORD AS ROUND TO SAY BUT YOU WENT OUT AND HAD DINNER.

COULD YOU AFFORD THAT?

RIGHT?

THAT DOES NOT EXIST.

SO I REALLY PUSH BACK ON THIS IDEA, THIS SCARCITY MIND SET THAT TENANTS HAVE TO EXIST UNDER THAT IS NEVER EXERTED ON THE OTHER ENTITY IN THIS EQUATION.

REALLY PUSH BACK ON IT.

>> LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION THAT LEADS TO A QUESTION.

WITH LANDLORDS, AND I TAKE YOUR POINT WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT.

NO ONE CAN ASKING IF THEY CAN AFFORD THAT PIZZA OR MAYBE NICER THAN A PIZZA.

BUT THE WOMAN IN THE PIECE THAT WE JUST SAW, THE LANDLORD, AT THE END OF THAT, THERE WAS A CERTAIN INCREDULITY IN HER VOICE WHEN SHE SAID I COULD NEVER CONCEIVE THAT WE COULD TAKE AWAY THE COMPENSATION OF AN ENTIRE INDUSTRY.

>> BUT THE REALITY IS THAT WE ARE NOT.

WHAT WE ARE SAYING IS FOR YOU TO RECEIVE COMPENSATION, YOUR TENANT NEEDS TO STAY IN PLACE.

THE REALITY IS IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE THAT IT IS TAKING THIS LONG.

I WOULD SAY WHEN WE TALK ABOUT WHERE THE PROCESS WENT WRONG.

IN 2008 WHEN WE HAD THE FINANCIAL COLLAPSE, THERE WERE NO SYSTEMIC BARRIERS TO GETTING GOVERNMENT MONEY OUT THE DOOR TO WALL STREET BANKS, RIGHT?

WHEN WE THINK OF THE MOST PRIVILEGED ENTITIES IN OUR SOCIETY, THESE BARRIERS, THESE HURDLES ARE NOT THROWN UP.

WHEN WE THINK OF THE MOST IMPACTED SEGMENTS OF OUR SOCIETY, AND THAT'S SMALL LANDLORDS AND TENANTS.

WE PUT UP EVERY BUREAUCRATIC HURDLE YOU CAN COULD CONCEIVE OF AND SHAME ON OUR GOVERNMENT, RIGHT?

THE REALITY IS THIS EVICTION MORATORIUM IS PROTECTING THOSE TENANTS OF HER MANUFACTURED HOME PARKS BUT IT IS PROTECTING HER BECAUSE IN THE ABSENCE OF THE TENANTS, SHE WILL NOT GET THE RENT RELEASE FUNDING THAT SHE HAS COMING TO HER.

AS COLTON SAID THERE WAS A SMALL FUND CREATED $250 MILLION BUT THE 2.7 BILLION RELIES ON THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE A TENANT IN PLACE.

NO ONE IS SAYING YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET YOUR RENT.

THE POLICY IS SAYING THAT HAVE YOU TO SIT TIGHT IN ORDER TO GET IT: I WANT TO GET OUR SOLUTIONS.

WE HAVE HIT THEM FROM DIFFERENT ANGLES BUT I WANT TO GO AROUND AND SALLY I'LL START WITH YOU: ONE DAY THIS PANDEMIC IS GOING TO BE OVER SO THE ISSUE OF THE MORATORIUMS AND THE RENTAL ASSISTANCE, THAT WILL GO AWAY, ONE MIGHT GUESS.

WE'LL GET BACK TO SOME SEMBLANCE OF NORMAL.

BUT THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING PROBLEM WILL STILL EXIST BECAUSE, AS WE'VE STATED, IT EXISTED BEFORE THIS ALL STARTED.

SO WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF COULD YOU WAVE YOUR WAND AND SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

WHAT ARE SOME STEPS THAT COULD SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?

>> SURE.

SO I THINK THINGS LIKE THE UNIVERSAL VOUCHER PROGRAM THAT YOU MENTIONED, THAT WOULD, YOU KNOW,INDIVIDUALS WHO DO QUALIFY FOR ASSISTANCE, THAT ASSISTANCE IS ACTUALLY AVAILABLE TO THEM.

INVESTMENT IN PUBLIC HOUSING AND OTHER TYPES OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE SHOULD BE LOOKING AT AGAIN AND FOR ME, THE HOUSING QUALITY ISSUE IS REALLY A CONCERN.

RIGHT NOW WE DON'T DO ENOUGH TO MAKE TO HOLD LANDLORDS ACCOUNTABLE AND FOR HOW THEY MAINTAIN THEIR PROPERTIES AND WE FRANKLY DON'T MAKE IT EXPENSIVE ENOUGH TO BE A BAD LANDLORD, AND SO, YOU KNOW, WITH THE FINES THAT THEY FACE, IF THEY EVEN FACE ANY, YOU KNOW, REPERCUSSIONS AT ALL FOR NOT MAINTAINING THEIR HOMES, NOT MAINTAINING THESE PROPERTIES, ARE WOEFULLY INSUFFICIENT.

AND WE ARE SEEING LANDLORDS JUST, YOU KNOW, EXPLOITING THEIR TENANTS, FRANKLY, IN A WAY THAT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ACCEPT.

>> OKAY.

COLTON, POTENTIAL SOLUTION FROM YOUR POINT OF VIEW?

>> I AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT WAS JUST SAID AND THEN JUST TO ADD ON TO THAT A LITTLE BIT.

SIMILAR TO UNIVERSAL VOUCHER PROGRAMS, SOME CITIES ARE EXPERIMENTING WITH GUARANTEED INCOME OR UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.

IT MAY HAVE TO BE SPENT ON HOUSING.

SOME PLACES ARE DOING IT JUST AS ADDED INCOME TO YOUR OVERALL MONTHLY BUDGET.

I THINK THOSE ARE INTERESTING AND EXCITED TO SEE WHAT COMES OUT OF THOSE STUDIES.

>> UNIVERSAL BASIC INCOME.

>> GIVES PEOPLE MONEY TO PAY THEIR RENT.

>> REBECCA.

>> EVERYTHING THAT THE WAS SAID PLUS EVERY SINGLE DOLLAR OF GOVERNMENT MONEY DIVESTING IN PRIVATE DEVELOPMENTS AND INVESTING IN COMMUNITY CONTROLLED HOUSING WHETHER THAT IS PUBLIC HOUSING, WHETHER THAT IS COMMUNITY LAND BANKS AND TRAND TRUSTS, RESIDENTIAL COOPERATIVES, NOT ONE MORE DOLLAR INTO THE FREE MARKET.

EVERY DOLLAR INTO COMMUNITY CONTROLLED HOUSING.

>> OKAY.

EVERY DWHRAR.

AND NOW-- EVERY DOLLAR.

IF WE WERE TO THINK BEYOND THESE SOLUTIONS.

MAYBE MORE BLUE SKY FUTURISTICALLY, ANYTHING ELSE THAT MIGHT BE DONE TO CREATE HOUSING THAT'S MAYBE NOT GOVERNMENT POLICY THAT WE COULD COME UP WITH?

ARE THERE ANY-- I MEAN, YOU KNOW, MODULAR HOUSING OR SOME NEW APPROACH?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE ARE-- I SAY THERE ARE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE DOING A MUCH BETTER JOB THAN WE ARE AT MAKING SURE PEOPLE ARE HOUSED IN, I GUESS SAFE AND DIGNIFIED WAY.

SO I THINK THERE IS A LOT TO BE LEARNED.

YOU KNOW, IT'S TOUGH RIGHT NOW WITH, WE ARE SEEING THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS RIGHT NOW SO GOING UP.

I THINK IT'S STARTING TO LEVEL OFF A BIT.

BUT YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE NEW TECHNOLOGIES.

THERE IS DEVELOPMENTS AND THINGS LIKE MODULAR HOMES AND MANUFACTURED DIFFERENT TYPES OF MANUFACTURED HOUSING.

AND A LOT OF PLACES, EVEN IF YOU COULD, A LOT OF TOWNS WILL ZONE IT OUT.

>> BECAUSE MANUFACTURING HOUSING IS A LOT NICER THAN IT USED TO BE.

>> BUT ZONING IS ANOTHER AREA WHERE YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES ZONE AWAY FROM AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

>> WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT RIGHT THERE.

THAT WILL DO IT FOR TONIGHT'S PROGRAM.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WEIGH IN ON TONIGHT'S DISCUSSION, YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN •AND YOU CAN ALSO FOLLOW US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

YOU CAN VISIT OUR WEBSITE AT WWW WCNY.ORG/CONNECT NEW YORK.

ON BEHALF OF THE CONNECT NEW YORK TEAM, I AM DAVID CHANATRY •HAVE A GOOD NIGHT