PRESIDENTIAL POWER.

DOES TRUMP HAVE THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS?

AN IMMIGRATION TRIAL IN SYRACUSE.

DOES JUSTICE HAVE TO BE JUST?

AND NUCLEAR POWER IS MAKING A COMEBACK•BUT ON THE MOON?

♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK BY AARON STRONG FROM HAMILTON COLLEGE, JENNIFER STROMER-GALLEY FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, AND BEN BAUGHMAN FROM GANNON UNIVERSITY.

OPPONENTS HAVE BEEN CALLING PRESIDENT TRUMP AN AUTHORITARIAN SINCE HIS FIRST CAMPAIGN.

WHILE THIS MAY SEEM LIKE OVERHEATED RHETORIC, HIS ACTIONS THIS TERM SEEM TO BE TAKING AMERICA TO A PLACE IT HASN'T BEEN BEFORE, AT LEAST NOT IN PEACETIME.

JUST THIS MONTH HE'S SENT ARMED SOLDIERS INTO WASHINGTON AND SAYS HE'LL DO THE SAME IN OTHER CITIES.

HE'S FIRED INTELLIGENCE AND ECONOMIC OFFICIALS WHOSE ANALYSIS HE DOESN'T LIKE, THREATENED CRITICS WITH PROSECUTION, INTERFERED WITH PRIVATE COMPANIES, AND EVEN ORDERED THE SMITHSONIAN TO CHANGE THE WAY IT PRESENTS AMERICAN HISTORY.

HE SAID THIS WEEK HE HAS THE RIGHT TO DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, IF HE THINKS THE COUNTRY'S IN DANGER.

IS THIS "DEMOCRATIC EROSION" OR I MEAN WHAT IS GOING ON AT THIS POINT IN TIME?

>> YEAH, RIGHT.

SO I WOULD SAY THAT WHAT TRUMP IS DOING AS PRESIDENT IS A CULMINATION OF A LONG SHIFT THAT WE HAVE BEEN SEEING IN THE PRESIDENCY, REALLY SINCE THE TELEVISION AGE.

AND THIS INCREASED ATTENTION ON THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, LESS ATTENTION ON THE PARTIES.

SO YOU KNOW, GO BACK TO THE 1940S, 1950s, PEOPLE VOTED PRIMARILY AROUND THEIR PARTY, AND THE FIGURE HEAD WAS, YOU KNOW, BY DEFAULT, WHO THEY VOTED FOR.

INCREASINGLY WE SEE THE PRESIDENT, THE PERSON RUNNING FOR THE PRESIDENCY BECOMES THE FOCAL POINT AND PEOPLE DON'T VOTE FOR THE PARTY BUT FOR THE PERSON.

OUR NEWS MEDIA PAY AS TENSION TO IT AND OUR COLLECTIVE CONSCIOUSNESS AS ROUND THE PRESIDENCY.

SO YOU HAVE THAT SORT OF CULTURAL CONTEXT.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE THEORY OF THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE PUSHED BY CONSERVE CONSERVATIVES A A WAY TO EXERT POWER FROM THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH OVER OTHER BRANCHES, LEVITSKI TALK ABOUT THAT YOU CANNOT DEVELOP POLICY THAT CAN EFFECTIVELY CATEGORIZE OR DEFINE ALL BEHAVIORS OF A PRESIDENT OR REALLY ANY BRANCHES OF THE GOVERNMENT.

SO EVERY POLITICIAN WORKS WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF NORMS AND DICTATES THAT ARE NOT BASICALLY ENSCONCED IN CODE.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SEE WITH TRUMP.

SO HE IS NO LONGER FOLLOWING WHAT WE TYPICALLY HAD SEEN AS THE NORMS OF OPERATION BY A PRESIDENT AND WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS ACTUALLY MANY OF HIS ACTIONS ARE ULTIMATELY BEING HELD UP BY COURTS AND THEY'RE NOT BEING CHALLENGED BY CONGRESS.

AND HE IS ENABLING-- OR HAS BEEN ENABLED AS A RESULT, TO REALLY PUSH THE PRESIDENCY IN DIRECTIONS WE HAVE NEVER SEEN.

>> SO GIVEN ALL OF THAT, AARON, THIS IDEA WHERE HE SAID HE CAN DO WHAT HE WANTS IF HE FEELS THE COUNTRY IS IN DANGER AND THAT'S FALLING FROM WHAT JENNY IS SAYING, WITHIN THE LEGAL FRAMEWORK TO DO THAT DIS L. WE HAVE BEEN DANCING AROUND THIS SORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL CRISIS THING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, MAXING OUT THIS THEORY OF THE UNITARY EXECUTIVE, RIGHT, THIS ABILITY TO FIRE ANYBODY HE WANTS, TO POTENTIALLY IGNORE THE WILL OF COURTS.

AND WE'VE COME RIGHT UP TO THE EDGE EVER THAT, RIGHT?

WE HAVEN'T YET HAD A SUPREME COURT RULING WHERE IT'S EXPLICIT AND THEN CONTINUOUSLY IGNORED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

THEY SAID KILMAR HAS TO COME HOME AND HE DID COME HOME.

SO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS STILL TRYING TO DO WHATEVER IT WANTS AND TWIST DIFFERENT WAYS WITHIN THE LEGAL SYSTEM WHERE THEY'RE STILL PRETENDING TO ALWAYS WANT TO FOLLOW WHAT THE LAW SAYS.

I'LL GIVE YOU THE MOST RECENT EXAMPLE OF FIRING A FED GOVERNOR, EXPLICITLY THE RULE IS THEY CAN ONLY BE FIRED BY THE PRESIDENT FOR CAUSE.

SO THEY MANUFACTURE A "FOR CAUSE" SO THEY CAN CLAIM AND TRUMP UP THAT.

CLEARLY TRUMP JUST WANTS HIS PEOPLE THERE.

SO HE IS STILL TRYING TO OPERATE WITHIN WHAT OUR NORMS ARE, BUT I THINK THIS IS AN EROSION OF THESE DEMOCRATS NORMS.

THE BIG TEST WILL BE THE 2026 ELECTIONS, RIGHT?

WE STILL HAVE ELECTIONS GOING ON IN THIS COUNTRY.

STATE SENATE ELECTION IN IOWA JUST HAPPENED YESTERDAY.

SIOUX CITY WON THE ELECTION, AND NOW THE REPUBLICANS NO LONGER HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY IN IOWA.

WE ARE STILL HAVING THESE ELECTIONS BUT WE ARE REALLY GOING TO HAVE A TEST IN 2026 OF OUR NORMS AND SYSTEMS?

>> SO WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT "FOR CAUSE" AND AWHAT THEY'RE ARGUING IN COURT, I MEAN THEY'RE MAKING PLAUSIBLE CASES IN COURT EVEN IF THEY'RE NOT REALLY FOLLOWING ALONG IN REALITY?

>> THEY'RE NOT FOLLOWING THE NORMS THAT HAVE BEEN SET AND FOLLOWED FOR PREVIOUS PRESIDENTIAL ADMINISTRATIONS BUT THEY'RE STILL TRYING TO MANUFACTURE THESE ARGUMENTS IN COURT.

>> BEN.

>> I THINK YOU ARE SPEAKING TO WHY HE GOT VOTED IN AS NOT FOLLOWING THE NORMS.

DEMOCRACY IS STILL AROUND.

IT'S RESILIENT, THE COURTS ARE REVIEWING CASES.

THE COURTS ARE DOING THEIR EXECUTIVE ACTIONS.

WE STILL HAVE CONGRESS THAT RETAINS OVERSIGHTED.

HEEF-- OVERSIGHT.

THEY ARE COMPLIANT WITH TRUMP'S SFRTION AND THE DIRECTION HE WANTS AMERICA TO GO IN BUT PART OF THIS HAS TO DO WITH DECADES OF AT LEAST PERCEIVED PUSH AWAY FROM THE MENTALITY AFTER WORLD WAR II AND BEING THE GREATEST COUNTRY AND THIS ONGOING PUSH WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, WHERE THE ALGORITHMS WILL TALK TO PEOPLE THAT WANT TO HEAR CERTAIN VIEWPOINTS.

AND IT REALLY IS ATTACKING OUR FUNDAMENTAL BELIEFS OF TRIBALISM >> SO IN THE BEGINNING, YOU WERE SAYING DEMOCRACY IS RESILIENT.

AND YOU CAN ARGUE CERTAINLY THIS IS WHAT PEOPLE VOTED FOR.

>> YEAH.

>> YES, BUT, RIGHT?

I THINK THERE IS, IF YOU CURRENTLY LOOK, TRUMP'S PUBLIC OPINION APPROVAL RATING IS QUITE LOW.

I THINK IT'S IN THE MID 30S.

SO WE HAVE, FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, A FUNCTIONALLY MINORITY THAT IS LEADING AND DRIVING POLICY IN THE COUNTRY THAT IS ACTUALLY COUNTER THE INTEREST OF THE MAJORITY.

AND THAT'S NOT HEALTHY.

I JUST WANT TO MENTION ONE OTHER THING.

I DON'T THINK OUR DEMOCRACY IS WORKING EFFECTIVELY WHEN YOU HAVE CONGRESS FUNCTIONALLY ABDICATING ITS OL' IN THE POLITICAL PROCESS.

YOU HAVE THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE BEING LED CURRENTLY BY REPUBLICANS WHO ARE INTENTIONALLY CHOOSING NOT TO-- EXPRESS THEIR BRANCH'S LEGAL AND POTENTIALLY POWERFUL RIGHTS.

THEY'RE NOW CURRENTLY AN EXTENSION OF THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

THERE ARE NO CHECKS.

AND THAT IS NOT HEALTHY FOR A DEMOCRACY.

>> SO THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL AT CONSOLIDATING POWER, ALMOST PERSONAL POWER OVER, CERTAINLY THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.

HE HAS STARTED TO DO CERTAIN THINGS LIKE WHERE HE SO IS THERE A DANGER IN THAT THAT, YOU KNOW,-- >> OF COURSE THERE IS A DANGER IN THAT.

HE ALSO JUST FIRED A BUNCH OF PEOPLE AT FEMA BECAUSE THEY WROTE A WHISTLEBLUER LETTER SAYING WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT HOW WE CAN FULFILL OUR GOVERNMENT MISSION RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF HOW THINGS ARE BEING RUN AND THE RESPONSE WAS, YOU ARE OUT, RIGHT?

THE DANGERS ARE THE DEMOCRATIC NORMS BEING LOST AND THE BALANCE OF POWERS BETWEEN THE THREE BARCHES BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

WE HAVE NO LEADERSHIP AT THE CDC.

IF WEIGH HAVE ANOTHER PANDEMIC, WE ARE IN REAL TROUBLE.

THE EROSION OF THAT EXPERTISE IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THE CONSENSUSES OF THAT IS ALSO GOING TO PLAY OUT.

BUT I DO THINK WE STILL HAVE A DEMOCRACY.

WE STILL HAVE ELECTIONS.

WE STILL HAVE ALL THREE BRANCHES DOING WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, JUST MAYBE NOT IN A WAY THAT IS ACTUALLY CHECKING THE POWER OF THE EXECUTIVE.

>> NOW THIS FALL, THE GOVERNMENT WILL RETRY AN RE-TRY A HONDURAN WOMAN LIVING IN FULTON WHO ILLEGALLY RE-ENTERING THE COUNTRY SEVERAL YEARS AGO.

HER FIRST TRIAL ENDED WITH A HUNG JURY.

THE STORY OF DORIS ALEMAN-BONILLA'S CASE, AND HER LIFE, WAS TOLD EARLIER THIS MONTH BY MICHELLE BREIDENBACH IN THE SYRACUSE POST-STANDARD.

THE CASE CENTERED ON WHETHER ALEMAN-BONILLA VOLUNTARILY CROSSED THE BORDER, OR WAS FORCED TO CARRY DRUGS INTO THE U-S.

THERE IS NO DISPUTE THAT SHE DID NOT HAVE PERMISSION TO ENTER THE COUNTRY OR THAT SHE CARRIED DRUGS.

SHE BROKE THE LAW, ADMITS IT, SO SHOULD SHE BE DEPORTED?

>> SHE SHOULD NOT BE DEPORTED.

DORIS ALAMAN-BONILLA'S STORY IS ONE WE NEED TO HEAR.

SHOEY WAS THREATENED WITH DEATH TO HER AND HER TWO YOUNG KIDS SHE FLED.

SHE WENT BACK TO HONDURAS, SHE ENTERED ILLEGALLY.

SHE WAS UNDOCUMENTED.

WENT BACK TO HONDURAS.

WHEN SHE WENT BACK, SHE WAS AGAIN THREATENED.

SHE WENT TO MEXICO AND SOUGHT ASYLUM IN MEXICO.

THERE SHE WAS RAPED AND KIDNAPPED.

HER KIDS WERE THREATENED, BOUND AND BAGGED IN A PARK.

THIS WAS PART OF AN ATTACK ON HER TO KIDNAP HER TO FORCE HER TO BE A DRUG MULE INTO THE UNITED STATES, TO CARRY DRUGS ACROSS THE RIVER, WHICH SHE DID IS ON STENSBLY TO HELP-- OSTENSIBLY TO HELP HER KIDS.

SHE SAW AN UNIT OPPORTUNITY TO BRING HER KIDS TO THE U.S. AND ESCAPE THE DRUG CARTELS AND SHE DID SO.

THE QUESTION OF WHETHER SHE SHOULD BE DEPORTED HAS TO DO WITH WHETHER SHE HAD PREVIOUSLY BEEN REMOVED, SHE HAS NO DOCUMENTATION WHEN SHE REENTERED BUT HINGES ON THE KEY QUESTION OF WHAT WE INTERPRET AS VOLUNTARY.

ONE ARGUMENT YOU COULD MAKE IS SHE HAS BEEN LIVING IN FULTON, DRIVING PEOPLE TO AN APPLE ORCHARD.

SHE HAS BEEN HERE FOR YEARS VOLUNTARILY.

ANOTHER WOULD SAY WHEN SHE ENTERED HERE SHE WAS UNDER DURESS.

THIS IS A CLASSIC ASYLUM CASE.

OUR ASYLUM CASE IS BROKEN.

SHE SHOULD HAVE SOUGHT ASYLUM WHEN SHE REENTERED.

AND IF OUR SYSTEMS WAS FUNCTIONING, SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN GRANTED ASYLUM.

I WISH THAT WE HAD A FUNCTIONING IMMIGRATION SYSTEM FOR EXACTLY THE CASE OF DORIS.

BUT RIGHT NOW IT HINGES ON THIS QUESTION OF VOLUNTARY, AND I THINK THE STRONG ARGUMENT SHE CAN MAKE AND HER LAWYERS WILL MAKE FOR HER AND MADE IN THE FIRST MISTRIAL WAS THAT SHE IS NOT IN THIS COUNTRY VOLUNTARILY.

>> BUT THE JUDGE SAID THAT HER PERSONAL STORY IS NOT RELEVANT.

>> EVERYTHING COULD NOT BE HEARD BY THE JURY AND IT'S JUST A SYMPATHY THING BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FOLLOW THE LAW.

>> BEN, IT'S A TOUGH CALL.

MAYBE IT ISN'T A TOUGH CALL.

THE JURY WAS HUNG APPARENTLY.

THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE VERY ADAMANT ON THEIR POSITION WOULD NOT CHANGE OR SWITCH SIDES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> THIS COUNTRY IS BUILT BY IMMIGRANTS AND ENRICHED BY IMMIGRANTS.

AARON IS SPEAKING TO THE PROBLEM OF OUR IMMIGRATION SYSTEM AND IT IS BROKEN.

AND THAT, I THINK THIS IS AN IMPORTANT STORE STORY TO DISCUSS P BUT I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD DERAIL US FROM THE IMPORTANT CONVERSATIONS AND WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE ON THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM SO PEOPLE THAT COME TO THIS COUNTRY HAVE A LEGAL WAY TO COME INTO THIS COUNTRY THAT IS EFFECTIVE AND THAT IS NOT CONFUSION-- NOT CONFUSING AND THEY CAN DO, RATHER THAN HAVING UNDOCUMENTED PEOPLE HERE COMMITTING CRIMES.

P. >> JENNY, LEGALLY, IT'S TOUGH.

I MEAN THE DECISIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE MADE ON THE EVIDENCE AND THE LAW, RIGHT?

THAT'S WHAT THE JUDGE INSTRUCTED THE JURY.

SHE IS AN ALIEN.

SHE HAD BEEN DEPORTED ONCE.

THE LAW IS PRETTY CLEAR.

>> YEAH, SO AS I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS LAST NIGHT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE OFTEN IN DISCUSSING ETHICS AND LAW AS HIGH SCHOOLERS WILL TALK ABOUT THE EXAMPLE OF THE POOR PERSON OR THE STARVING PERSON WHO STEALS A LOAF OF BREAD TO FEED THEIR CHILDREN.

AND IS THAT-- WHEN WE KNOW THAT STEALING IS WRONG AND SOMEONE IS HARMED, THE PERSON WHO MADE THE BREAD AND SELLS THE BREAD LOSES THE INCOME FROM SELLING THE BREAD AND THE REASON FOR THE STEALING IS FOR THE HUMANITARIAN GROUNDS.

THE CHALLENGE AND YOU GUYS HAVE BOTH ALREADY SAID THIS BUT IT'S WORTH UNDERSCORING THAT THE LEGAL SYSTEM DOES NOT ACCOUNTED WELL FOR P MOTIVES AND THE CONSEQUENCES.

YOU KNOW, THE LAWS ARE WRITTEN TO ESTABLISH AND CREATE A BASELINE FOR HOW WE MAKE THESE JUDICIAL DECISIONS, BUT WE ARE NOT ABLE TO ACCOUNT FOR THE REASONS WHY PEOPLE ENGAGE IN THE LEGALLY ILLEGAL ACTS, IF YOU WILL.

AND THAT'S THE NATURE OF THE SYSTEM.

THAT UNFORTUNATELY WE LIVE IN.

>> P TO GIVE YOU A POSITIVE SPIN ON THIS GOING BACK TO OUR FIRST CONVERSATION.

THIS IS BEING TRIED IN COURT AND WE ARE DEBATING AND DISCUSSING THE RULE OF LAW AND THE WORD VOLUNTARY IN A COURT SYSTEM.

WE HAD A JURY TRIAL.

THAT'S A SYSTEM THAT IS FUNCTIONING, RIGHT?

WE ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AND STICK TO THE LAW.

AND YOU ASKED THE QUESTION SHOULD SHE BE DEPORTED?

SHE SHOULDN'T BE DEPORTED IN A SYSTEM THAT IS WORKING.

I DON'T THINK SHE SHOULD BE DEPORTED STRICTLY UNDER THE DEFINITION OF WHETHER SHE IS IN THIS COUNTRY VOLUNTARILY.

THAT'S A QUESTION THE COURT SHOULD MAKE A DETERMINATION ON THROUGH OUR SYSTEM AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE ARE DOING AND IT COMES DOWN TO HOW A JURY INTERPRETS THAT.

>> AGAIN, BEING VERY TECHNICAL HERE, SHE DID NOT DO SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED FOR HER TO MAKE THE CASE FOR ASYLUM.

SHE DIDN'T ACTUALLY DO SOME OF THOSE LEGAL STEPS.

SHE NEEDED TO DO THOSE THINGS AND SHE DID NOT.

SO IN THAT SENSES, MAYBE SHE SHOULD BE DEPORTED.

>> THAT BRINGS US DOWN TO WHAT A DIFFICULT CASE IT IS.

ON THE HUMAN LEVEL-- POST STANDARD EDITORIAL BOARD CALLS HER CASE CRUEL, UGLY, PERVERSION OF JUSTICE AND A WASTE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO RETRY IT NOW, THE COST THERE.

OUR NEXT TOPIC SOUNDS LIKE A CROSS BETWEEN JAMES BOND AND STAR WARS.

THE SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATION HAS DIRECTED NASA TO BUILD A SMALL NUCLEAR POWER PLANT ON THE MOON BY 2030.

RUSSIA AND CHINA WANT TO DO THE SAME THING.

NUCLEAR POWER WILL BE NECESSARY TO SUPPORT A MOON BASE NEEDED FOR FURTHER EXPLORATION OF SPACE.

NASA'S ARTEMIS PROGRAM TO RETURN MEN TO THE MOON BY 2027 GOT A BIG FUNDING BOOST IN THE ONE BEAUTIFUL BILL EARLIER THIS YEAR.

BEN, SHOULD WE BUILD A NUCLEAR PLANT TO THE MOON?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS, A LUNAR NIGHT ON THE MOON IS 14 DAYS.

SO THE ONLY WAY TO SUSTAIN ANY TYPE OF STRUCTURE ON THE MOON, IF THAT'S THE ROUTE THAT OTHER COUNTRIES ARE GOING IN AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE PUSHING, WE CURRENTLY HAVE THE EDGE.

SO IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME OF WHO PUTS IT THERE FIRST AND HOW SAFE IT IS; WHERE THEY PUT IT.

THERE IS A PLACE IN THE SOUTH POLE THAT GETS SUNLIGHT MOST OF THE TIME AND SO THAT'S THE MOST IDEAL PLACE.

SO REALLY WHO GETS THERE FIRST WILL GET THAT SITE IN THE SOUTH POLE.

SO, YES IS THE BOTTOM LINE.

THIS WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE I FIRST READ IT AND BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH WE RELY ON, JUST TO SURVIVE, ON PLANET EARTH, ON THE MOON, IT DID NOT SEEM WORTH IT BUT WHEN YOU START DIGGING INTO IT, IT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE IT'S INEVITABLE.

>> YOU SAID IT'S A MATTER OF HOW SAFE IT IS AND THAT'S, AARON, I MEAN WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

I MEAN WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH NUCLEAR WASTE HERE?

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH IT ON THE MOON?

>> A COUPLE THINGS TO THINK ABOUT HERE.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A 100-KILOWATT REACTOR PROPOSED.

27,000 TIMES SMALLER CAPACITY THAN THE PLANT UP IN OSWEGO.

I WANT TO CONTEXTUALIZE SMALL.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT A LARGE NUCLEAR POWER PLANT LIKE IN THE SIMPSONS.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A VERY SMALL NUCLEAR REACTOR AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY YOU ARE GOING TO PROVIDE POWER NECESSARY FOR A MOON BASE THAN TO DO THIS.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE TALKING ABOUT NUCLEAR POWER HERE ON EARTH.

RIGHT NOW, AS OF THIS MORNING, 23% OF THE ELECTRICITY IN NEW YORK STATE'S GRID COMES FROM NUCLEAR POWER.

WE STILL HAVE 40% OF OUR ELECTRICITY COMING FROM FOSSIL FUELS.

AND BY 2040, ACCORDING TO NEW YORK STATE'S LAW, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE 100% CARBON GRID.

THAT'S WHY GOVERNOR HOCHUL IS TALKING ABOUT NEW NUCLEAR POWER HERE ON EARTH.

I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF POLICY DISCUSSIONS, A LOT OF ECONOMIC DISCUSSIONS AND A LOT OF TECHNICAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HOW WE ARE GOING TO GET TO A ZERO CARBON GRID HERE, WHERE WE ARE GOING TO PUT NEW NUCLEAR.

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT ON THIS SHOW.

WE REALLY SHOULD BE SPENDING MORE TIME TALKING ABOUT THAT.

THIS IS A LITTLE BRIGHT SPOT IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S SCIENCE ADMINISTRATION.

THEY'VE CUT MANY, MANY FEDERAL GRANTS ALL OVER THE PLACE.

THEY'VE CUT ACTUALLY SPACE SCIENCE RESEARCH.

BUT BECAUSE IT'S LIKE THE COMPETITION THING AND IT'S ABOUT "WINNING" WHICH SEAN DUFFY ACTUALLY USED THAT PHRASE, WE ARE ABOUT WINNING, WE ACTUALLY SEE MONEY GOING INTO THIS NEW SPACE RACE TO BUILD A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT.

>> CONTEXT, THE WINNING IS REFERRING TO RUSSIA AND CHINA COLLABORATING TO DO THE SAME THING; TO BUILD A NUCLEAR PLANT.

>> BECAUSE CHINA ANNOUNCED IN APRIL THAT THAT WAS A GOAL OF THEIRS, WAS TO PUT A NUCLEAR REACTOR ON THE MOON AND SO THE UNITED STATES COMES BACK AND SAYS OH NO, US, TOO.

RIGHT BUT THAT ECHOS THIS LONG STANDING SET OF SORT OF THAT SPACE RACE THAT YOU MENTIONED THAT GOES BACK TO THE 1950s.

>> AND THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT JUST CAME UP THOUGH THREE MONTHS AGO.

THERE HAVE BEEN DESIGNS TO DO THIS FOR SOMETIME.

>> THE UNITED STATES PROPOSED THIS IDEA OF A NUCLEAR REACTOR ON THE MOON IN THE EARLY 60s.

SO THIS IS NOT A NEW IDEA.

WHAT GIVES ME SOME EXCITEMENT ABOUT THIS IDEA IS THAT GOING BACK TO YOUR POINT, AARON, ABOUT THE NEED FOR US TO KEEP FINDING WAYS TO INNOVATE AROUND OUR INNOVATE-- AROUND OUR ENERGY DEVELOPMENT, THE DOLLARS THAT GOES INTO THE RESEARCH, EVEN IF THE PURPOSE IS SLIGHTLY FAR FETCHED, THE RESEARCH THAT WILL COME FROM IT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO CREATE NEW INNOVATIONS FOR MORE EFFICIENT ENERGY PRODUCTION IN THE U.S.: >> THIS IDEA OF THE BIG PUSH OF SPACE EXPLORATION GOING TO MARS.

ELON MUSK VERY BIG ON THAT AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN, TOO.

I MEAN SHOULD WE PURSUE THAT?

I MEAN BEE-- DON'T WE HAVE ENOUGH PROBLEMS HERE?

>> WE DO AND THAT'S MUSK'S ARGUMENT.

THAT THIS IS A FAIL SAFE.

AND WHETHER YOU BUY THAT OR NOT, WHAT IT DOES DO, THE CHALLENGES THAT IT PRESENTS, 3 THE INNOVATION THAT HAS TO TAKE PLACE P TO MEET THE CHALLENGES, IN ADDITION TO THE RARE MINERALS THAT ARE ON THE MOON, THOSE ARE ALL REALITIES.

SO IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER WHERE YOUR VIEWPOINT IS.

THOSE ARE REALITIES THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE ON BOARD.

YOU HAVE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE TRYING TO GET THERE FIRST AND IT REALLY IS-- IT'S NOT JUST LIKE HEY, YOU GET A GOLD MEDAL.

IT'S EITHER YOU GET THERE AND YOU GET THE ONE PRIME SPOT THAT IS THE LEAST AGGRESSIVE OF ALL THE OTHER ONES, WHICH IS MORE AGGRESSIVE THAN GOING TO MARS.

SO IF WE EVER ANTICIPATE GOING TO MARS, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO PUT A PLANT ON THE MOON.

>> SO WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IS WHAT I THINK DUFFY CALLED THE KEEP OUT ZONE.

>> SO LET'S PUT A LITTLE POLITICAL ANALYSIS HAT ON HERE, RIGHT?

ELON MUSK'S BUDDY JARED ISAACMAN WAS WITHDRAWN AS NASA ADMINISTRATOR.

PART OF THE BIG TOUGH BETWEEN MUSK AND TRUMP WAS THIS WITHDRAWAL OF THE NASA ADMINISTRATOR THAT WAS ELON MUSK'S FRIEND AND SEAN DUFFY IS THE ACTING NASA CENTER SO THERE IS A FLEXING OF THE MUSCLE OF WHAT THIS IS GOING TO MEAN IN THIS POLITICAL ANNOUNCEMENT SHOWING THAT THEY'RE STILL SHOWING THAT THEY'RE STILL SERIOUS ABOUT NASA GOALS IN THIS DIRECTION.

SIGNALING THAT THIS IS SOMETHING NASA IS GOING TO RUN AT.

IN A WORLD OF CRUMBLING SCIENCE ALL AROUND US, IT'S EXCITING FOR ME TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS ABOUT SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> OKAY, AND I JUST WANTED TO GET TO THE POINT THAT YOU JUST RAISED ABOUT CRUMBLING SCIENCE BECAUSE EVEN WITHIN NASA, SOME OF THE SCIENCE PROGRAMS ARE BEING CUT AT THE SAME TIME-- >> MOST OF THOSE.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE RACE FOR COMPETITION WITH CHINA AND RUSSIA.

MOST OF THE BUDGET FOR ACTUALLY SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH RESEARCH AND IN SPACE HAS BEEN CUT AND THE BASIC RESEARCH IN SPACE HAS BEEN CUT AND WE ARE FOCUSED ON HOW DO WE PUT BASES, EXTRACT MINERALS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> AND THOSE SCIENCE ADVANCES WE WOULD GET ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO, JENNY, ABOUT THE BENEFITS OF EXPLORATION.

>> TO BE ABLE TO SOLVED SOME OF THE CHALLENGES.

HOW DO YOU ENGAGE IN COOLING WITHOUT ATMOSPHERE?

THAT BECOMES AN INTERESTING RESEARCH CHALLENGE THAT POTENTIALLY HAS OUTCOMES THAT AFFECT THE WAY THAT WE CAN BETTER, MORE EFFICIENTLY GET AN AN AND EXTRACT, FOR EXAMPLE, ENERGY OUT OF NUCLEAR REACTORS.

>> NO LAKE ONTARIO ON THE MOON.

>> ZERO CARBON EMISSIONS ON THE MOONS.

AS AND FS, AARON YOUR F. >> TO THE DEPARTMENT OF INTERIOR WHICH ORDERED EVOLUTION WIND TO STOP ANY WORK AT THE 65 WIND TURBINE OFF THE COAST OF MASSACHUSETTS.

IT WAS FULLY APPROVED AND 80% BUILT.

ONE OF MANY INSTANCES OF A SON COMMITTED SUICIDE.

THE FAMILY SAID THE A.I.

TOLD THEIR SON TO-- LET ME TRY THAT AGAIN.

TOLD HIM TO KEEP HIS SUICIDAL IDEATION A SECRET AND HELPED DISCUSS METHODS.

THE RACE FOR DOMINANCE OPENA.I.

AND OTHER A.I.

COMPANIES ARE ENGAGING IN ARE NOT SUFFICIENTLY PROTECTING THEIR PEOPLE WITH THEIR PRODUCTS AND PEOPLE ARE DYING.

>> YESTERDAY, WEDNESDAY 8:30 IN MINNESOTA.

19 PEOPLE WERE SHOT ATTENDING A MASS AT A MINNESOTA CATHOLIC CHURCH AND SCHOOL.

TWO OF THOSE ARE NO LONGER WITH US.

AGE 8 AND 10.

THEY WERE KILLED.

RESEARCH SUGGESTS THAT 75% OF SCHOOL SHOOTERS HAVE SOME FASCINATION OF PREVIOUS SCHOOL SHOOTERS.

ULTIMATELY WHAT THIS LEADS TO IS THE MEDIA AND US TO STOP GIVING OFFENDERS THE ON TENSION IN THESE STORIES.

>> -- THE ATTENTION IN THESE STORIES.

>> .

NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.

THERE IS A LOT OF ARTICLES ABOUT HOW THE NATIONAL PARKS ARE STRAINED FROM THE DOJE ERA BUT THOSE STILL WORKING ARE DOING AN AMAZING JOB EDUCATING, INSPIRING CURATING CLEANING AND TAKING CARE OF OUR PARKS.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.

>> JEN AGREE MY A GOES TO NEW YORK STATE FOR RECORD LEVEL OF INVESTMENTS FOR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE TO ENSURE CLEAN DRINKING WATER.

330 WATER PROJECTS INITIATED THIS YEAR AND THAT CREATES JOBS AND GIVES US HEALTHY CLEAN WATER.

THAT'S WHAT GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE DOING AND I'M GLAD NEW YORK IS.

>> BEN.

>> MY A IS GOING TO THE USE OF VIRTUAL REALITY EXPERIENCES TO REDUCE PAIN.

IT IS ACTUALLY A U.K. UNIVERSITY WENT THROUGH A STUDY WHERE THE EXPERIENCES USING A V.R.

SET HAD SIMILAR OR EVEN BETTER RESULTS NOT ONLY DURING THE MOMENT BUT UP TO 45 MINUTES AFTER THAN PAIN KILLERS DO.

>> WHO NEEDS THE FDA.

THAT MIGHT PLAY IN WASHINGTON.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO VIEW THE SHOW AGAIN YOU CAN VIEW IT ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FOR ALL OF US AT IVORY TOWER, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.