>> COMING UP NEXT, ARE U.S.

SAILORS IN DISTRESS?

ALSO TONIGHT, I-81 CONTRACTORS DO NOT HAVE TO HIRE UNION WORKERS.

AND IS THE SUPREME COURT IN NEED OF REFORM?

THE "IVORY TOWER" PROFESSORS ARE BACK IN A MOMENT.

>> THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE LISA DOLAK OF SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY NORELL EDWARDS OF LEMOYNE COLLEGE LUKE PERRY OF UTICA UNIVERSITY AND ANIRBAN ACHARYA, ALSO OF LEMOYNE COLLEGE.

FAMILY MEMBERS OF SAILORS ON USS ABRAHAM LINCOLN, HAVE REPORTED ALARMING CONDITIONS ON THE SHIP.

AMONG THE PROBLEMS CITED ARE WATER CONTAMINATION, FOOD SHORTAGES, AND MECHANICAL GLITCHES.

BUT ESPECIALLY CONCERNING ARE REPORTS OF MULTIPLE SUICIDE ATTEMPTS.

THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER IS NOW HEADING HOME, AFTER A RECORD-SETTING NINE-MONTHS AT SEA IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

BUT, PRESIDENT TRUMP DISPUTES REPORTS OF POOR CONDITIONS AND MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS.

THE PRESIDENT CALLED THOSE REPORTS “FAKE.” SO, LUKE, WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE AND WHY IS IT HAPPENING?

>> WELL, I THINK THESE CONDITIONS ARE UNACCEPTABLE.

I'M SURE THE MEMBERS ARE RISKING THEIR LIVES ON THE FRONT LINES TO PROMOTE NATIONAL SECURITY AND CLEARLY THEY'RE NOT BEING SUFFICIENTLY TAKEN CARE OF.

THERE ARE A LOT OF LAYERS TO THIS.

I'LL FOCUS ON ONE.

IT IS NOT UNDERESTIMATING HOW DAMAGING IRAN'S ATTACKS HAVE BEEN ON OUR NAVY CENTER IN TEHERAN.

BAHRAIN.

WE HAVE USED THESE FOR YEARS TO LAUNCH OUR OPERATIONS IN MIDDLE EAST AND THEY HAVE DONE SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE THROUGH DRONE ATTACKS AND LED TO LOGISTICAL PROBLEMS.

TRADITIONALLY THE U.S.

MILITARY DOES LOGISTICS VERY WELL.

WE HAVE DIRE SITUATIONS FOR THE SERVICE PEOPLE THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> ANIRBAN, ONE OF THE CHALLENGES LUKE MENTIONED IS THAT SHIPS NOW HAVE TO TRAVEL THREE TIMES THE DISTANCE THAT THEY DID PREVIOUSLY AND NOW FROM A BRITISH BASE.

SO YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THE LOGISTICS CHALLENGE?

>> SO HERE'S THE PROBLEM, RIGHT?

LIKE AS YOU LISTEN TO MANY SCHOLARS WHO ACTUALLY WATCH AND STUDY THIS STUFF, IT IS CONSENSUS OPINION THAT UNITED STATES WENT INTO THIS WAR WITH KIND OF A PEACE-TIME LOGISTICS IN MIND AND WHAT HAPPENED AS LUKE IS POINTING OUT THAT AFTER BAHRAIN AND OTHER BASES GOT DESTROYED AND THE UNITED STATES HAD TO IMMEDIATELY VAC EVACUATE FROM THE BASES YOU ENDED UP WITH 2200 KILOMETERS FROM D DIEGO GARCIA.

INITIALLY STARMER WAS UNWILLING TO PROVIDE GARCIA BUT TRUMP, YOU KNOW, BULLIED OR WHATEVER AND THREATENED AND THEN HE KIND OF RELENTED.

THE ISSUES OF THE PREPARATION FOR A WAR TIME LOGISTICS WAS NOT THERE WHEN THE WAR STARTED AND NOW WE HAVE TO SUPPLY ALL THIS STUFF FROM 2200 COLOMBIA KILOMETERS AWAY AND THIS IS WIDELY REPORTED AND PUBLIC DOMAIN THAT MANY-- UNLIKE IN POST-9/11, MANY SERVICE MEMBERS ARE OR HAVE VERY LOW MORALE.

THEY DON'T FIND THE IMMEDIATE REASON FOR THIS PARTICULAR WAR THAT THEY ARE PROSECUTING AND THEY DON'T FEEL THAT THEY HAVE SOMETHING IMMEDIATE TO DO IN THIS KIND OF WAR.

COMBINED WITH THAT ALL THE DIFFERENT STUFF THEY'RE WRITTEN ON THE FUSELAGE THAT HAS BEEN WIDELY REPORTED.

IT IS A COMBINATION, AS I SAY, LACK OF BLAN PLANNING.

DIDN'T FIGURE OUT 9 BASES COULD BE HIT AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN... >> BEFORE WE BEGAN HOSTILITIES.

SO LISA, A RETIRED NAVY COMMANDER, BRIAN CLARK SAID "WE DIDN'T PLAN FOR THIS WAR.

WE JUST SORT OF DID IT ON THE FLY.

LIKE A PICKUP GAME."

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE CLAIMS THAT IS OUT THERE.

THAT THERE WAS NOT ADEQUATE PREPARATION, SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS WAR.

YOUR THOUGHTS.

>> YEAH IT APPEARS THEY DIDN'T EVEN LOOK AT THE MAP AND NOTICE THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND ITS STRATEGIC POSITION.

LOOK, THERE IS JUST NOT ENOUGH WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE TO CONDEMN HOW IMCONCEIVED THIS WAR IS.

YOU KNOW, ASIDE FROM EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT HERE IN TERMS OF THE STRESS PLACED ON THE MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY, YOU KNOW, WHAT ABOUT THE ENORMOUS COST OF THE WAR, THE DEPLETION OF OUR ARM AMOUNTS,-- ARM AMEANTS AND OUR SUPPLIES AND THE COST TO YOU AND ME AND THE PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY.

THE ONLY THING THAT ASTOUNDS ME ABOUT THIS IS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION RETAIN ANY SUPPORT AT ALL AMONG THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

WITH HIS PROMISES TO NOT GET US INTO ANOTHER WAR AND OUR FATIGUE WITH WAR.

I CAN'T SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF PLANNING.

I'M SURE THERE WAS BUT YOU CAN SEE HOW THE PRESIDENT AND THE SECRETARY OF WAR OPERATE, A SHOOT FROM THE HIP SITUATION.

>> AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, NORELL, WHAT WE HEARD THE PRESIDENT SAY IS THAT THE REPORT ABOUT POOR CONDITIONS AND MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS ARE FAKE AND SO YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT.

IS THERE ANYTHING TO THE-- JUST THE LOGISTICS THAT ANIRBAN TALKED ABOUT, TRAVELING 2200 MILES AND HAVING TO SOMEHOW KEEP THE MEATS AND PRODUCE FRESH.

>> I MEAN HAVE YOU SEEN THE PICTURES FLOATING AROUND?

I THINK YOU KNOW, WHETHER-- WHETHER OR NOT THOSE ARE TO BE BELIEVED, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT THE COLLAPSE WE'VE HAD OF THE FOOD SYSTEM HERE, YOU KNOW, HERE AT HOME, I THINK THAT THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS AROUND WHAT THE MILITARY ARE FACING.

ADDITIONALLY, I THINK THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY ALSO FOR US TO HAVE A DISCUSSION AROUND MENTAL HEALTH AND SOME OF THESE DEMANDING PROFESSIONS.

DESPITE THE CONTEXT OF THE WAR AND THE POOR PLANNING, THERE-- THIS COULD OPEN US UP FOR A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR BETTER DISCUSSING MENTAL HEALTH, PROFESSIONALS LIKE MILITARY PILOTS UNDER USUALLY EXTREME DURESS AND PUSHED EVEN FURTHER AND CERTAINLY THERE IS A HISTORY OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST VETERANS AND OTHERS IN TERMS OF MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES.

>> IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT THE LONG DEPLOYMENT.

THERE ARE LONGER DEPLOYMENTS.

THE PROBLEM HERE THAT WE ARE SEEING ARE THE SAILORS ARE NOT ABLE TO COME OUT TO WHAT SAILORS CALL A LIBERTY PORT.

YOU MIGHT HAVE LONG DEPLOYMENTS BUT YOU GET TO A POINT, LET OFF STEAM AND GET THE THINGS YOU NEED AND THAT IS NOT HAPPENING.

TO ADD TO THIS, THERE ARE A LOT OF MILITARY ADVISERS WHO SAY LOOK, IF YOU DO THIS, STRAIT OF HORMUZ WOULD BE CLOSE AND THEY WILL BOMB THE BASES.

I GUESS THE LEADERSHIP FAILED TO LISTEN.

SO I AGREE WITH LISA HERE COMPLETELY THAT I DON'T KNOW.

THEY WERE SHOOTING FROM THE HIP.

>> IN TERMS OF MENTAL HEALTH, IF YOU ARE DEPLOYED, YOU NEED DECENT FOOD.

GOING BACK TO NAPOLEON, THERE HAS BEEN AN EMPHASIS ON THAT.

IF YOU ARE NOT FED THERE AND UNDER DURESS AS IT IS, THAT IS A PROBLEM.

AND NO MATTER HOW MENTALLY TOUGH YOU ARE AND DEPLOYED A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME AND THEN FIND OUT IT'S ANOTHER THREE MONTHS, SIX MONTHS OR NINE MONTHS, THAT'S INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT.

IN ADDITION TO THE IMMEDIATE CAUSES THERE HAVE BEEN MORE LATENT CAUSES OF THE PROBLEM HERE AS WELL.

I MEAN WE SPEND ABOUT $25 BILLION ON 150 SURFACE SHIPS.

AND THE GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE, FOR YEARS, HAS BEEN DOCUMENTING THAT THESE SHIPS ARE NOT SUSTAINABLY MAINTAINED.

SOME OF THAT HAS DO WITH INSUFFICIENT PERSONNEL.

WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH CIVILIAN SHIPYARDS WHERE THEY CAN BE FIXED OR DOMESTIC MANUFACTURERS OF THESE SHIPS SO HAVE YOU DEFERRED MAINTENANCE THAT LEAD TO MECHANICAL PROBLEMS AND THERE IS NO SIMPLE FIX FOR THAT.

>> NO SIMPLE FIX.

I WANT TO COME AT THIS FROM THE OTHER SIDE, REGARDING THE FAMILIES WHO HAVE SOUNDED THE ALARMS ABOUT THIS AND HAVE BEEN VERY SPECIFIC ABOUT WHAT IS MISSING.

COULD ONE ARGUE THAT THAT IS PROBLEMATIC IF YOU ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WAR AND YOU HAVE SOMEONE CHANNELING TO THE ENEMY, WE DON'T HAVE WHAT WE NEED.

OUR RESOURCES ARE SHORT, OUR MENTAL HEALTH IS NOT WELL.

ISN'T THAT A BAD THING FROM THE PERSPECTIVE, THE STRATEGIC PERSPECTIVE?

>> I THINK IT'S HONORABLE IN A DEMOCRACY.

I'M HAPPY WE LIVE IN A DEMOCRACY WHERE THINGS GET OUT.

IT'S THE NATURE OF THE SYSTEM ITSELF.

YOU JUST CAN'T KEEP IT UNDER WRAPS.

>> WE ARE NOT WINNING THE WAR.

THAT'S A FACT.

>> THAT'S THE FACT I LEFT OUT OF MY TIRADE, WHICH IS WE ALSO, BY THE WAY, HAVEN'T ACCOMPLISHED ANYTHING.

ONLY MADE THINGS WORSE.

>> WE HAVEN'T SECURED HIGHLY ENRICHED URANIUM.

>> WE CHANGED THE REGIME TO A WORSE ONE.

THE ONLY THING WE HAVE ARGUABLY ACCOMPLISHED WAS TO DENIGRATE A LOT OF THEIR CONVENTIONAL WEAPONS.

THEY'VE USED A LOT OF STUFF.

WE HAVE USED UP A LOT OF STUFF.

>> THAT'S NOT TO DIMINISH THE PEOPLE SERVING AND DOING THEIR BEST.

THE TACTICS AND THE LEADERSHIPS AT THE TOP WHAT IS WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

>> THE EXPERIENCE IS DIMINISHING THEM OF ONGOING.

>> ON ITS OWN.

ONE THING WE DO HAVE HAPPENING NOW IS THAT SHIP IS BEING REPLACED WITH ANOTHER SHIP.

BUT THEN WE'LL WILL HAVE TO ENSURE THAT GUARD RAILS ARE IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SAME THING DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.

WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON NOW TO OUR SECOND TOPIC.

CONTRACTORS WORKING ON THE I-81 PROJECT DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT HAVE TO HIRE UNION WORKERS.

THIS, ACCORDING TO THE "POST STANDARD," IS THE CONCESSION THAT NEW YORK STATE MADE IN ORDER TO SECURE SUPPORT FOR THE PROJECT FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION'S DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION.

THE DEPARTMENT HAS ALLEGEDLY SLOW ROLLED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR PHASE 2 OF THE PLAN.

AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, THE OVERALL PLAN IS TO REMOVE AND REPLACE THE HIGHWAY.

NORELL, WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THE STATE'S DECISION TO PREEMPTIVELY DROP UNIONS FROM THE PROJECT LABOR AGREEMENT?

>> I CAN UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO DO SO IN ORDER TO MOVE FORWARD WITH FUNDING FROM THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

HOWEVER, OF COURSE, THE IMPORTANCE OF UNIONS COMES DOWN TO SAFETY.

YOU KNOW, RESEARCH SHOWS FROM ILLINOIS ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE EXAMINED DATA FROM 37,000 OSHA INSPECTIONS IN 2019 AND FOUND THAT UNION JOB SITES ARE 19% MORE LIKELY TO HAVE HEALTH AND SAFETY VIOLATIONS.

UNIONIZED FIRMS HAVE 14% OF THE CONSTRUCTION INDUSTRY BUT ASK FOR 5% OF OSHA VIOLATION.

WHEN YOU HAVE THOSE THAT HAVE THE RESOURCES THEY NEED, THEY CAN DO A BETTER JOB AND EVEN THOUGH THEY DROP THE AGREEMENTS THEY CAN GO FORWARD WITH ACQUIRING THOSE UNION LABORERS.

>> YEAH, AND SO LISA, EVEN THOUGH AS NORELL HAS SUGGESTED, THE UNIONS MAKE FOR A SAFER WORKPLACE, WE HAVE SEEN NATIONWIDE UNIONS DECLINE IN THEIR CLAIM OF THE WORKFORCE.

>> WE ARE IN A PERIOD WHERE THE PENDULUM IS SWINGING OF LESS SUPPORT FOR UNIONS.

HOW I THINK ABOUT THIS IS THE PURPOSE OF AN INFRASTRUCTURE PROJECT AND THIS IS THE LARGEST ONE I THINK IN NEW YORK STATE HISTORY.

>> IT IS.

>> IS TO BUILD INFRASTRUCTURE AND IT'S NOT TO GUARANTEE JOBS TO A PARTICULAR GROUP OR PRESERVE THE POWER OF PARTICULARLY INSTITUTIONS.

A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE.

FIRST OF ALL, THIS MONEY IS CRITICAL.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF MONEY.

YOU SAY PREEMPTIVELY BUT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING IT CLEAR THAT THIS MONEY IS NOT COMING AND ALL OF US WHO DRIVE THROUGH THIS EVERY DAINO THAT IT IS ALREADY A VERY LENGTHY PROJECT.

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT WE CAN AFFORD TO HAVE DELAYS ENTER THE PICTURE HERE.

THE STATE IS ACTUALLY SPENDING MONEY ON TRAINING.

AND IT IS INCENTIVING THE HIRING OF LOCAL RESIDENTS AND PEOPLE WHO HAVE TRADITIONALLY FOUND IT DIFFICULT TO GET EMPLOYMENT.

SO THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, SIGNIFICANT PROTECTIONS IN PLACE.

SURE THIS WON'T GIVE ALL THE THINGS THAT UNION JOBS DO.

UNION WORKERS CAN PARTICIPATE I'VE-- IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE SHUT OUT.

MY BOTTOM LINE HERE IS THE STATE'S OBLIGATION IS TO BUILD THE HIGHWAY WELL, SAFELY, YOU KNOW, ON TIME AND AT A REASONABLE EXPENSE AND THERE IS JUST NO WAY TO DO IT WITHOUT THE FEDERAL MONEY SO I CAN SUPPORT THE DECISION WHILE ALSO CONDEMNING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S-- >> FOR WITHHOLDING THE FUNDS.

BUT ALSO WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IS THE AMOUNT FOR THIS PROJECT HAS DOUBLED SINCE ORIGINAL ESTIMATES AND THAT MAKES THE STATE THAT MUCH MORE DEPENDENT ON THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

>> THERE IS A KNEE JERK REACTION THAT WE ARE CAPITULATING AGAINST THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND MAKING WORKERS LIVES WORSE, BUT THEN, YOU KNOW, I'VE WARMED UP TO WHAT LISA IS SAYING THAT LOOK, WE NEED THE INFRASTRUCTURE DONE.

THIS IS-- WE HAVE BEEN WAITING.

PEOPLE HAVE BEEN WAITING AND DRIVING IS A MESS WE NEED THIS DONE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE.

IN A STRATEGIC WAY, IF ONE CAN MOL PHI THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND GET THE MONEY, THIS IS FROM THE STUFF YOU SENT US TO READ, MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW ARE ENGAGED TO SAY THERE IS NOT ENOUGH LABOR TO HAVE ONLY NON-LABOR UNION.

THERE WOULD BE A MIX OF UNION AND NON-UNION LABOR.

MANY CONTRACTORS LIKE UNION LABOR.

IT'S EASY TO WORK WITH THEM AND THEY HAVE TRAIN TRAINED A BUNCH OF UNION PEOPLE.

IT'S NOT ALL LABOR THAT WILL BE SHUT OUT.

IT WILL BE A MIXTURE OF BOTH.

THAT IS OKAY.

THERE IS SIMPLY NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE TO JUST HIRE OUTSIDE UNIONS.

SO I THINK IT WILL BE A MIXTURE OF BOTH AND THE WORK SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

>> SEEMS LIKE A FEDERALISM ISSUE FOR ME.

IF WE IN NEW YORK WANT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO PAY FOR MUCH OF THIS PROJECT WHICH THEY HAVE DONE THROUGHOUT FIVE CONTRACTS GOING ON SIX, THEN WE HAVE TO DO WHAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WANTS US TO DO.

AS THE TRANSPORTATION CHAIR IN THE STATE ASSEMBLYMEMBER MAGNARELLI POINTED OUT, THE FEDS ARE NOT MOVING CONTRACTS THAT HAVE UNION REQUIREMENTS.

TO ANIRBAN'S POINT, THE STATE HAD SAID 75% UNION OR MORE.

IT TBHEAFERS GOING TO BE 100% ANYWAY.

I SUPPORT UNIONS, BUT IN THIS CASE, IF I WAS SERVING IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT, I WOULD DO THE EXACT SAME THING.

>> THE NATIONAL CONTRACTORS ASSOCIATION ESSENTIALLY SAID THAT THEY DON'T CARE SO MUCH FOR HAVING TO HIRE UNION WORKERS.

THEY WANT THE FREEDOM TO HIRE WHOMEVER THEY WANT BUT THEY'RE POINTING OUT THEY NEED TO IN THIS CASE.

NORELL.

>> I THINK THE ONLY-- I SORT OF AGREE WITH WHAT EVERYONE HAS SAID BUT I THINK THE ONLY THING THAT I WORRY ABOUT, TOO, IS THIS SORT OF, YOU KNOW, SETTING PRECEDENT OR SORT OF PUSHING A DID YOU TELLER DIRECTION AGAINST HIRING UNIONS.

THAT'S PART OF THE CONCERN THAT ULTIMATELY WITHOUT LABOR AGREEMENTS, WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT CONTRACT AND THE NEXT CONTRACT, RIGHT?

DO WE FALL INTO A KIND OF HABIT OF SAYING YOU KNOW, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ISN'T GOING TO FUND IT SO WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE IN SOME WAYS ALSO WEAKENS UNIONS IN THE LONG-TERM.

>> I THINK THAT'S A GOOD POINT.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THE STATE HAS TRIED TO DO THIS AND I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO TRY TO DO IT AGAIN AND THE WINDS MAY CHANGE AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT LOCAL WORKERS.

ONLY ABOUT 15% OF THE WORKERS ARE LOCAL AND THEY'RE ONLY GENERATING ABOUT 15% OF THE WORK AND 15% OF THE WAGES AND THE CONTRACTORS ARE OUT OF NEW JERSEY.

I'M FROM NEW JERSEY, I'M GOOD WITH THAT BUT IN THIS CASE, IT'S NOT GOOD.

WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET MORE LOCAL PEOPLE WORKING THESE JOBS AS WELL.

>> RIGHT.

AND TO INCREASE THEIR ACTUAL HOURS BECAUSE TO HAVE THEM IS ONE THING, AS YOU POINTED OUT.

BUT HERE IS THE OTHER ISSUE THAT WE HAVE SORT OF SKIRTED AROUND, IS THAT THE BALLOONING COSTS OF THIS PROJECT.

SO THE CONTRACTORS WIN THE BID.

ONCE THEY'RE IN, HERE GO ALL OF THESE OTHER COSTS.

SO IS THAT CONCERNING, LISA?

>> IT'S-- I MEAN FIRST OF ALL, YOU SEE-- WHEN I SAW THAT HEADLINE, MY REACTION WAS NO SURPRISE HERE.

NOT ONLY BECAUSE HISTORICALLY MASSIVE PROJECTS TEND TO EXPERIENCE COST OVERRUNS BUT ALSO BECAUSE THE COST OF EVERYTHING IS UP, LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

SO PART OF THIS GOES BACK TO THE EXTRAORDINARY, YOU KNOW,COST OF EVERYTHING RIGHT NOW, EXTRAORDINARY INFLATION.

SO WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO DO.

>> WHICH, IN THIS CASE IS INCREASED PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE TARIFFS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPOSED.

>> FUEL.

>> EVERYTHING.

>> SO WE ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO PROBABLY COME BACK TO THIS.

BUT FOR RIGHT NOW WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO OUR THIRD TOPIC.

AS MIDTERM ELECTIONS APPROACH DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN MAKING THEIR CASE TO VOTERS.

ONE IDEA THAT'S GAINED TRACTION CALLS FOR REFORMING THE SUPREME COURT.

SOME WANT TO ADD SEATS TO THE COURT.

OTHERS, TO END LIFETIME TENURE ALLOW CAMERAS IN THE COURTROOM LIMIT USE OF THE “SHADOW DOCKET” AND MORE.

THE PROPOSALS TRACK WITH THE PUBLIC'S GROWING DISAPPROVAL OF THE COURT.

LISA, ARE DEMOCRATS ON THE RIGHT TRACK IN PURSUING SUPREME COURT REFORM?

>> WELL, PART OF THE PROBLEM IS INHERENT IN YOUR QUESTION, WHICH IS IT DEPENDS IN PART ON WHAT PROBLEM WE ARE TRYING TO SOLVE.

YOU KNOW, IS IT THAT WE ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE COURT'S DECISIONS OR IS IT CONCERNS ABOUT ETHICS AND, YOU KNOW, SO DIFFERENT REFORM PROPOSALS ARE AIMED AT DIFFERENT THINGS.

YOU KNOW, LOOK, THIS IS A VERY CONSERVATIVE COURT.

BUT I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, CLAIMING OR ASSUMING THAT THESE JUSTICES, THE CONSERVATIVE JUSTICES ARE PURE PARTISAN ACTORS, JUST DOING THE BIDDING OF DONALD TRUMP, MISSES THE REALITY THAT THESE JUSTICES CAME TO THE COURT WITH VERY LONG, ESTABLISHED LONG, HELD VIEWS ABOUT CONSTITUTIONAL INTERPRETATION, ABOUT FEDERALISM, ABOUT THE ROLE OF JUDGES, AND NOW THAT THEY'RE IN THE MAJORITY, THEY HAVE THE CHANCE TO, YOU KNOW, TO IMPLEMENT THOSE VIEWS.

AND JUSTICE KAGAN, NO FAN OF SOME OF THESE DECISIONS BY THE CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY SAID THAT THIS SUMMER SHE THINKS THE COURT IS MAKING A LOT OF BAD DECISIONS BUT REJECTED THE IDEA THAT IT IS JUST TRUMP'S COURT.

IN ANY EVENT, THE PROBLEM IS-- THE BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE COURT'S DECISION, THE SOLUTION IS TO ELECT A DIFFERENT PRESIDENT.

>> AND WIN SENATE ELECTIONS.

>> AND WIN SENATE ELECTIONS.

IT'S THE BALLOT BOX IS WHERE THE SOLUTION IS.

IF THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

SO... >> I MEAN I HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF YOU KNOW, GRIPE WITH THIS BECAUSE EVEN WITH THE BALLOT BOX , THE U.S.

SUPREME COURT-- AND THIS IS SEVERAL GOOD WORKS ARE THERE.

KAREN WEINSCHALL IN 2025 LOOKS AT 3 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND SUPERIOR COURTS AND SHOWS THAT THE UNITED STATES COURT HAS AN OVERSIDESSED IMPORTANCE IN THE POLITICS OF THE COUNTRY, MUCH MORE POWER THAN OTHER COURTS IN OTHER PLACES HAVE.

AS IF BEHAVING LIKE A SUPER LEGISLATURE THAT DOES NOT HAVE TO LIKE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT ANY KIND OF LEGISLATION THAT HAS HAPPENED.

AND THE JUDICIAL REVIEW STUFF IS SUPREME COURT GAVE THEMSELVES THAT POWER.

IN MANY OTHER COUNTRIES, CANADA AND OTHER PLACES, THERE ARE CERTAIN LEGISLATION THAT YOU CANNOT OVERRULE.

THERE ARE SOME CHANGES THAT CAN HAPPEN.

ONE IS THAT IN ORDER TO OVERTURN LEGISLATION, YOU NEED TO HAVE A SUPER MAJORITY PLUS ONE IS A GREAT IDEA.

SECOND, WE SAW ALL THE JUSTICES HAVING THESE VERY GOODRICH FRIENDS-- VERY GOOD RICH FRIENDS, TAKING THEM OUT FOR VACATIONS AND NOW THEY'RE RULING-- THEY'RE ACCUSING THEMSELVES-- >> I HAVE TO ASK YOU THIS THOUGH AND MAKE IT QUICK BECAUSE WE WANT TO GET TO OUR OTHER COLLEAGUES.

THIS COURT HAS OVERTURNED A LOT OF THE TRUMP DECISIONS THAT YOU DON'T APPROVE OF.

>> SURE, THAT IS CORRECT.

BUT I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD ACCEPT A STATUS QUO WHERE THE SUPREME COURT HAS SO MUCH IMPORTANCE IN THE AMERICAN LEGISLATIVE-- >> WE ARE GOING TO LUKE.

>> I WANT TO GET NERDY AS A POLITICAL PROFESSOR AND GET INTO THE INSTITUTIONAL STUFF YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT BUT THE REALITY IS A LOT OF THESE THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN AND DEMOCRATS ARE CLEARLY USING THIS AS A STRATEGY TO TRY TO RALLY THE VOTERS.

I THINK IT COULD WORK BUT IT DOESN'T DO A LOT FOR ME BECAUSE IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT'S MORE RHETORIC THAN REALITY.

>> 30 SECONDS, NORELL.

>> OH MAN, I'M NOT AGAINST THE IDEA OF TERM LIMITS.

MAYBE 20 YEARS.

I MEAN I THINK-- >> GOT TO AMEND THE CONSTITUTION TO DO A LOT OF THIS STUFF.

>> IT WOULD BE VERY TOUGH BUT I THINK THERE IS SOMETHING TO BE HEAD ABOUT TRPTS AND HOW LONG PEOPLE SAY.

I'LL JUST SAY THAT.

>> I GOT TO SAY-- >> JUSTICE THOMAS WOULD AGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT YOU SAID.

>> AND THAT IS A SHOCK, RIGHT?

HERE WE GO.

WELL NOW IT'S TIME FOR OUR GRADE BOOKS.

AND WE ARE GOING TO START LISA WITH YOU AND YOUR F.

>> MY F GOES TO ALL THE PRESIDENTS AND ALL THE CONGRESSES IN BOTH PARTIES FOR DRIVING OUR NATIONAL DEBT PAST AN OBSCENE $$40 TRILLION.

MORE THAN DOUBLE WHAT IT WAS JUST IN 2017.

WE ARE NOW BORROWING ROUGHLY $2 TRILLION A YEAR AND SPENDING MORE THAN A TRILLION ANNUALLY JUST ON INTEREST.

THIS IS MONEY CONSUMED BY YESTERDAY'S BILLS, RATHER THAN TODAY'S NEEDS.

IT'S IRRESPONSIBLE AND IT IS A STAGGERING BIPARTISAN BETRAYAL OF YOUNGER AMERICANS.

>> 234* ORELL.

>> F TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY FOR LAYING OFF ITS WRITING CENTER DIRECTOR WHICH I FEAR WILL HAVE REPERCUSSIONS ACROSS HIGHER EDUCATION.

THINK THIS WILL BE A SIGNAL TO OTHER COLLEGES THAT WE SHOULD NOT PRIORITIZE HUMAN WRITING SUPPORT AS AICHT TAKES OVER COLLEGE CAMPUSES AND OUR DAILY LIVES.

>> LUKE.

>> TOWN SQUARE MEDIA FOR CANCELING KEELER IN THE MORNING ON WIBX RADIO.

THEY HAVE PROVIDED LOCAL, THOUGHTFUL POLITICAL DISCUSSION FOR 13 YEARS.

THEY WILL NOW NO LONGER HAVE ANY LOCAL PROGRAMMING WHICH IS BAD FOR LOCAL NEWS IN OUR REGION.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DELETING AND ALTERING OF 400 U.S.

DATA SETS POTENTIALLY ENDANGERING PUBLIC HEALTH AND RESEARCH.

U.S.

DATA IS ONE OF THE BEST DATA IN THE WORLD THAT WE ALREADY LIKE TO WORK WITH BUT NOW IT SEEMS THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE DATA ABOUT AIR QUALITY AND ALL THE VIOLENCE AND ALL THAT STUFF.

SO TOOLS THAT MAKE AMERICA GREAT ARE NOW BEING STRIPPED AWAY.

>> I AM ACTUALLY SITTING HERE MAKING A NOTE OF EACH OF THE TOPICS BECAUSE WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A FULL DISCUSSION OF ALL OF THEM.

NOW WE ARE GOING TO TURN TO OUR AS AND START AGAIN WITH YOU, LISA.

>> MY A GOES TO THE COMMUNITY GROUPS AND PUBLIC AGENCIES THAT HAVE SPENT DECADES RESTORING NEW YORK CITY'S BRONX RIVER, WHERE A RIVER OTTER HAS BEEN SPOTTED FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MORE THAN A CENTURY.

ONCE OVERWHELMED BY INDUSTRIAL WASTE SEWAGE AND GARBAGE, THE RIVER HAS GRADUALLY BECOME HEALTHY IN YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT WILDLIFE THAT HAD DISAPPEARED.

THAT OTTER IS PROOF THAT SUSTAINED ENVIRONMENTAL WORK CAN SOMETIMES UNDO GENERATIONS OF DAMAGE.

>> I DON'T KNOW ABOUT HOW BUT FOR THOSE PARENTS WHO WANT TO BE ABLE TO GET HOME BY 10, I THINK THIS IS A LOVELY IDEA.

THIS DANCE PARTY.

AND FUN.

>> LUKE.

>> MY A GOES TO FASCINATING LITTLE STORY OUT OF BELGIUM WHERE A COLLEGE STUDENT WORKING CONSTRUCTION FOR THE SUMMER DISCOVERED $10 MILLION IN GOLD.

HIS CREW WAS RENOVATING AN OLD BUILDING FOR A HOUSING NON-PROFIT.

NOW PER BELGIUM LAW, THE OWNER OF THE GOLD, WHO NOBODY KNOWS WHO IT IS, HAS FIVE YEARS TO CLAIM IT OR IT WILL GO TO THE NON-PROFIT.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> TO THE U.S.

FDA FOR THE APPROVAL OF THE FIRST MRNA VACCINE FLU FOR PEOPLE 50 YEARS OLD OR OLDER.

THIS WILL HELP CHOOSE THE PARTICULAR STRAIN MUCH NEARER TO THE DISEASE OUTBREAK AND A GOOD THING FOR U.S.

HEALTH.

>> LISA, CAN I GO BACK TO YOUR F ABOUT THE DEBT.

THE $40 TRILLION MARK.

HAVE WE GOTTEN THERE OR WE ARE APPROACHING IT?

>> WE GOT THERE TUESDAY.

>> AND SO A LOT OF THAT IS NON-DISCRETIONARY, RIGHT?

CONGRESS CAN'T TOUCH WHAT IS IT LIKE A THIRD OF IT?

>> THE VAST-- THREE QUARTERS OF IT OR SO IS-- WELL, OF OUR SPENDING OF OUR ANNUAL BUDGET IS PAYMENTS TO INDIVIDUALS OR PAYMENTS TO RECIPIENTS.

>> AND THE ONLY THING THAT PEOPLE WANT TO CUT IS FOREIGN AID, WHICH IS LESS THAN 1%.

SO IT'S THE ELECTED PHS AND IT'S US.

>> TWO-THIRDS IS NON-DISCRETIONARY.

>> AND WE ARE TINKERING AT THE EDGES ON ALL OF THIS IDEOLOGICAL STUFF.

SO WE'LL SEE.

WELL, THAT'S ALL WE HAVE FOR YOU TONIGHT IN THE STUDIO.

WE'D LOVE TO HEAR WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE TOPICS WE'VE DISCUSSED TONIGHT.

PLEASE WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE, GO TO WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.